For anyone who was involved in leftism when George W. Bush was president...

For anyone who was involved in leftism when George W. Bush was president, can they recount how the scene and theory-related debates were back in the day online and 'IRL'?
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During the bush years, conspiracy theories were hot shit among leftist circles. It was always conservatives who came out against these theories, every time someone said something about Area 51 or Illuminati it was always a neocon who told them that shit wasn't real. Funny enough, many of those same theories (the NSA comes to mind) turned out to be true. It was a great time for people who questioned the mainstream narrative, especially post-9/11 when everyone was scared as fuck about terrorism. However, it was quite dystopian in the mainstream. It was always terrorism, terrorism, terrorism, and most blindly followed it.

nice get
only started to get involved into politics then, also european here so what do i know…

shit wasn't better, just way slower is really the only big difference.
at this point i'm just wondering how shit can repeat itself so quickly with people still pretending to be surprised about the outcome.
there also wasn't that much eceleb-faggotry going on, so not much of just bandwaggoning and sucking someones dick just to push one talking point you agree on.

sad but true. i remember a lot of confrontations with basically "turd positionism". the whole "Antideutsche" thing gained momentum too calling every act of questioning the USA "structural antisemitism".
it was disgusting sitting between fags that fell for the idea of conspiring circles being the problem rather than the system and the Antigerman scum defending all acts of imperialism and spreading antisemitism against arabs and jews while pretending to side with latter but only being massive right-wing israel cucks

This makes sense. Immortal Technique, a left-wing hip-hop artist who hit those spots, started out and got pretty big in that era.

yes that was the case for mainstream "omg fuk bush"-type progressives. but i don't know what it was like among genuine, scientific socialist, anticapitalist circles, since they had even less mainstream exposure than they do today
not really. most of those theories were started by conservatives, particularly the "anti-government" and alex jones types. when conservatives did oppose those theories, it was out of disdain for anything/one that would cast the president and the military in a bad light

they were shitty days, whatever the case

Absolutely this, conspiracy theories were fucking wild. I fondly remember being told AIDS was a bioweapon used to wipe out poor communities, particularly blacks, in order to free up space and money.

I'd think it would be a seriously good idea for someone to research this and make a comparative study of certain aspects of 'the left' during different presidents.

i know that it was adressed quite often, accusations of conspiracy theories were thrown around against anyone who disagreed with the Iraq war
so there was a need to distance yourself from conspiracy theories in general while still pointing out real conspiracies and how these are really just business as usual with imperialist nations and their war lies

Anyone remember all those tacky (if somewhat 'comfy' in the nostalgia factor for armchairs) anti-Bush websites?

Unironically watch Alex Jones' Bohemian Grove documentary. It was made before he became a controlled opposition fag. That shit turned out to be true. Also, during the bush years was the tail-end of liberal soccer mom culture, 'member when women would complain about violent video games causing real life murders and constantly calling for gun control? Also bear in mind these were the years when Abrahamist religion lost its seemingly unbreakable grip over most moral thought. It was a great time for people waking up from the American Dream.

The early 2000's was still the old internet with geocities websites, dial up, and was slow as shit. Back when it was mostly populated by white male nerd enthusiasts, weridos, and maybe some asians.
The internet as we know it didnt really materialize till the mid late 2000's when social media and smart phones started appearing.
The chans were less political in nature, but at the same time still as sociopathic, bullying people, invading websites, hacking, trolling.
So it was mostly old style internet forums with nerds attacking each other about star trek or some shit

member rotten .com…….memeber tub girl……member newgrounds…….memeber ganguro girl……..
i member

Oh also websites back then were designed for desktops. Modern website design is for pig disgusting phone fags

Of the two I know that are still up and running, one by a 2004 John Kerry supporter had devolved for sometime into anti-semitic conspiracy theories and some pro-Hitler commentary. He would be a Trump supporter but he's somewhat consistent enough to oppose Trump on the same lines. A lot of conspiracy theories.
The other site is more of a normal progressive-activist-type directory/newswire that is surprisingly updated in all but that anti-Bush type aesthetic.

i'm quite familiar with it. the aspects of the grove he talked about, and the theatrics he filmed, were known well before jones 'exposed' them; they were just not mainstream knowledge. however, his belief that the grove was a place of occult or satanic sacrifice and violence, or something along those lines, was simply nonsense and paranoia. he was the first outsider to get footage though
yes but that crap was happening before bush. for example, the original doom and mortal kombat games were some early targets of that crowd

That's some boring de.generate trash you've named there, user. Should have spent that time finding a text by Paul Mattick on a Geocities site that may not even be translated yet as you read up on the confirmations of Dubya's appointees to federal positions in the Senate while you proto-post Bordiga on various boards and email threads.

meant for

New Atheism was huge in liberal circles back then due to Bush's god bothering and also the gay marriage issue. Shit sucked.

so… left-wing online was the equivalent of Holla Forums now?


In retrospect the west bero baptist church were probaly the most obvious controlled opposition of all time

There are generally two separate circles for conspiracy theorists. For example a left wing conspiracy theorist who believes in astrology and homeopathy wouldn't believe in right wing conspiracy theories like young earth creationism and the sandy hook conspiracy theories.

left wing conspiracy theories always have more truth to them with the CIA selling black people crack, the CIA saving nazis after ww2, the CIA targeting communists.
Beginning to think this cia guy doesnt like leftwingers

I was pretty active on the ground in (relative) left wing of the Democratic Party during Bush's second term. What we cared the most about was Iraq, so while I was an angry Naderite during the first term when the Dems blatantly sucked Bush's patriotic dick all the time, it really seemed like there was a real difference between the Republicans and Democrats during that second term when the Democrats came out hard against Iraq. That brought us back into the party and the party gave a voice to grassroots organizations organisations and the blogosphere during the 06 midterms. Besides Iraq, the Christian Right and the Moral Majority were very strong in those days - this is when intelligent design was a thing people believed in - so it was easy to oppose for everyone without thinking too much. It was just obvious that Bush was shit, so more apolitical places on the internet could come out against Bush unilaterally without ever paying real attention to politics. Nobody online liked Bush, there was no "conservatism is the new punk rock" shit. People really hated Bush's appeals to patriotism to justify his agenda, but we were still attached to patriotism. We thought America was really good, we thought it was a country worth being patriotic for. It was a weird thing when you think about it today, us people on the ground were so engaged and united against Bush but we never thought about what we were really opposing past the obvious shit.

Thanks, this is an interesting perspective.

these aren't conspiracy theories and were never regarded as such


But they are. Conspiracy theories don't have to be false to be conspiracy theories. They just have to be theories that people came up with to explain the shittiness of society.

they kinda are, covered up and excused with conspiracy theories about the evil plans of the communists


Leftism was much, much worse during the Bush years.
You can complain about "idpol" all you want but I wouldn't trade it for what we had 15 years ago.

Go on..


kek didn't bill cooper come up with that one?

I get hard every time I see this video.



Still got some fun stuff saved. I'm curious about what the actual Left thought and did during Bush, not progressive liberals.

Immortal Technique - The Cause Of Death (2003)

Immortal Technique - Apocalypse (2008, probably)

I believe we are already, or will be seeing a lot of similarities here under a Trump or Pence administration. A lot of the Trump campaign was conventional Republican policy taken up a number of notches in accord with the reactionary wave that occurred in support.

The left never embraced conspiracy theories. They only parotted what dropped from the gatekeeper filters (like Naomi Klein, Noam Chomsky, Michael Moore, the Yes Men) just like now. Lefties never cared about the JFK assassination, the Bilderbergers, the Rothschilds or the non-profit foundations because they always knew where their bread was buttered. The best they could do was link Dick Cheney, the weapons industry and private mercenaries to neoconservatism, but couldn't care less about the Project for a New American Century. During that time the UN was the lefties' last hope for bringing "war criminals" to bear. They eventually embraced the "9/11 was an inside job" meme not knowing that it was started by Alex Jones.
I think Zeitgeist popped up while Bush was president. I remember "good Bush, bad Bush" T-shirts.

But was he really behind 9/11?

Are you saying that the Rothschilds were behind the Bordiga meme?

Most 9/11 conspiracy theories are actually anti-materialist and spawned from bourgeois-idealists. So, unironically, no.

… go on.

This is always something that makes me a bit optimistic, even when I was depressed it seemed like a little ray of sunshine.

I mean look at how dystopian the mid-2000s were in mainstream political terms. You had Bush (who was at least funny) symbolizing what seemed to be permanent stupid warfare But more personally important you had Blair in the UK. The Blair government was obscenely depressing. If you were Scottish, there was some hope in the the SNP - otherwise? Fucked. Welcome to your new life. The future looked so dark then. An increasingly authoritarian system of state surveillance. Massive wasteful public-private partnership projects. Increased conditionality in welfare. They actively aided this impression themselves by trying to 'do good by stealth' meaning that anything redistributive they did (like tax credits) was downplayed to avoid a right-wing line of attack.

But now look what happened: New Labour is dead. Yes, we have a Conservative government - Yes, before 2017 it was impossible to see how Labour would ever win again. But look around even in that context: Nobody really believes this is a stable, happy medium anymore. There aren't people (as there were circa 2005) celebrating the death of ideology and the imposition of this new rational technocratic order of market self mangement. It's dead. What comes next? Who knows. You can't predict the weather, but look up in the sky: The rain has stopped.

Incidentally, relevant primary source:

shit is on repeat for past 100 years or more

Clinton was more behind 9/11 than Bush but both were complicit.