Why don't you believe the "Russian Trolls" narrative?

Russian astroturing is very much real, especially in Europe where they can be found behind most right-wing organizations spreading fake stories that "anti-establishment"-right wingers eat up. If you think they're not doing it you're delusional. The Democrats are obviously using it as damage control to deflect from their shitty party however this doens't make it all fake. Only because the Democrats blame all kinds of stupid shit on Russia that didn't happen doesn't mean you can just ignore all the stupid shit Russia is actually doing. Collusion between Russia and Trump is already established at this point along side all the other uncostitutional stuff Trump has done that everyone already knew about and didn't care about before this was confirmed.

Every country with a modicum of importance has foreign agents, includings agents provocateurs. But their effect can only be acutely felt in, say, a protest, where they give police an excuse to act. Otherwise, they just generate counter-propaganda, which obviously acts much more subtly and slowly, propaganda itself.

What this boils down down to is the liberal press seeking to pin the blame for Trump on anyone but themselves. The fact that Russian agents are having an impact in the Ukrainian fracas is coincidence. Ukraine could sink into the Earth tomorrow, and the American press would keep on with Russophobia unabated.

Because that's not the narrative. "Russian Hackers" are the narrative.

No, the press did push muh Russian trolls as instigating the aut-right into becoming Nazis and shit.

When was this?

Russians dindu nuffin. They good bois incapable of doing evil to anyone.

I don't believe in anything that USA says. Nothing.
Americans are an hivemind who seek world domination. Hell…i bet you are an american yourself.

Just google something like 'russian trolls radicalizing'. I see now that they're saying these trolls threw fuel in the fire of the NFL fiasco too.

This. We have to clean ourself of the american virus

Why not clean ourselves of the humanity virus?

What if the two powers both being mad doesn’t mean that the US-supported Maidan was good?

It is false equivalence. Even if Russian narrative is 100% true as Dem pundists push it, it does not mean that they "hacked" election. That means that they have obtained and released incriminating truth about American and Demparty officials and operations.

If Russian narrative is true, an American citizen should than Putin for letting him in on more information and conspiracies.

*bad

Except we do, lurk more.

Whatever the Russians allegedly did changes based on whatever fuckup the Dems need a scapegoat for that particular week. It's an incoherent mess of a narrative and not a single shred of fucking evidence has ever been provided to prove any of it.

seems plausible, there is too much in common between average Holla Forumsyp and average nutsackialist in EU

the point is not denial of shit happening but pointing out that giving a shit is hypocritical and pointless

murricans had it coming and it's not even a bad thing, claiming otherwise is spreading illusions into the bourgeoise democratic system and its candidates that were the "alternative" to Trump
point and laugh

you already wrote a whole book about your whining, Hillary, stay off the internet

these are oppressed ethnic russians that are the majority population in these areas that were given to the Ukrainian SSR by an Ukrainian on a whim because it didn't matter back then.

the claim that siding with these people is siding with Putin is a putinite-clintonite ideology.

You absolute dolt.

Stoking the fire of idpol tension in the US is in Russia's best interest.
If they weren't acting on it, then they are not doing their job. Why in hell wouldn't them? The answer: they do.

THESE

Democrats try to create this Russian boogeyman of the "Russian super-hacker shill allied with Trump, to hack the election, spread lies, etc". Don't fall for that because it flattens the conversation.
The thread is not about collusion, nor Wikileaks, why do you bring it up?
I'll never know about Trump's real stance, though I don't think there was actual collusion, just shared interests.
I'll never know about WikiLeaks

But Russian shilling is undeniable. There are separate things.

Ok, we agree then, and I didn't mean the whole package of "russian narrative", just the shills army part

I've been off a bit now, but it was very rare to see some months ago

I hated NATO intervention too
I hated Hillary Clinton too
But Russian intelligence presence on social media was well known then, and it should be now. People memory-holed it across all chans just because both Holla Forums and Holla Forums hate the democrats apparently

"Russian troll farms" are nothing new

buzzfeed.com/maxseddon/documents-show-how-russias-troll-army-hit-america?utm_term=.ppax8yNrX#.ikrwpvgk1

has tried to wreak havoc all around the Internet — and in real-life American communities.
nytimes.com/2015/06/07/magazine/the-agency.html

theguardian.com/world/2015/apr/02/putin-kremlin-inside-russian-troll-house

medium.com/the-eastern-project/the-russian-troll-farm-a3830bc65993

christianpost.com/news/russia-troll-farm-spreads-fake-news-about-united-states-140200/

Entirely not the point. The point is that it's not a shinny thing they just made up. It's been going on for a long time.

If you want to agree with Russia and think they are doing god's work, that's your thing.
But stop playing dumb.

Seriously, what an insane fuck that comes out with this pointlessly stupid shit. Congrats on having me insult you twice.

The party complaining the most about Russia is THE party of idpol. The CIA and FBI has been injecting this stuff straight into the veins of the American Left and American proles for years. In fact they’ve been manipulating and creating ethnic divisions between proles since before the Russian Revolution.

If it wasn’t useful to the ruling class it would just disappear from the American media. Ever wonder why Marxist American socialists and radical analysts have to go on RT, PressTV or Al-Jazeera to get their views heard? It’s not just “knee-jerk anti-imperialism” as the ultra-leftists like to squeal in glee you just can’t get on or get a fair hearing American TV if you’re a radical.

America is finally getting a taste of their own medicine in that American dissidents are given a hearing on foreign media which disenchanted Americans watch. After decades of foisting “dissidents” on their geopolitical adversaries in the world media now their own dissidents get a hearing. Unsurprisingly, the ruling class hates it and wants it shut down.

You mentioned Wikileaks in your post and I would just say that it ISNT a Russian Operation. If Wikileaks is secretly run by anyone it’s the Israeli Mossad. That’s just a fact.

Forgot pic

That's interesting albania poster, where can I read more about this?

I love the irony in this.

whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/Wikileaks--the_Mossad-Connection.html
aangirfan.blogspot.com/2010/11/wikileaks-takes-pro-israel-stance.html?m=1
veteranstoday.com/2016/10/10/why-wikileaks-is-in-the-trump-camp/
youtube.com/watch?v=FRko1M2F34c

Some of the stuff here is fringe but the arguments seem pretty sound to me. Zbigniew Brzezinski said that Wikileaks was a Front for an “Intelligence agency” if it was the Russians, Chinese or even the French he would have just said it. It’s Israel, you can’t talk badly about Israel in America even if what you’re saying is factual and you’re part of the elite.

Israel has the most aggressive intelligence network in the US and it shares intelligence with the CIA. So, what do you believe? “Russian Hackers” stole the DNC, Podesta Emails and hacked Clinton? Or, do you believe the fallback msm story that these leaks came from either independent parties or from those concerned about Hillary in the establishment itself.

The first story really isn’t credible and the second sounds good at face-value but it has holes. If the parties who leaked the info were really independent why turn them over to Wikileaks which is about as impartial as the Soros-funded ICIJ? Why would insiders in the democrats sell out their own party? Exposing “corruption” in one of the worlds most corrupt parties doesn’t sound convincing.

The Israelis wouldn’t even need to hack anything. They would just ask for it and their agents in the US establishment would get it for them. In addition to that we know now that Israel hacked Kaspersky labs and has created software the imitates the MO of Russian hacker gear.

Now, it appears that Wikileaks and the Trump family were in contact throughout the entire Trump campaign. Consider the fact that Trump has connections to the Zionist-run Lansky mafia and that the prime media outlet supporting him during the campaign was Breitbart News. Breitbart News, though funded by the Mercer’s and headed by Bannon was founded in Israel. InfoWars, another pro-Trump outlet is owned by TimeWarner which is at least partially Jewish owned. Bill Hicks Alex Jones himself claims to be a fan of Israel and says he has CIA connections in his family. The CIA, of course, for the most part has an infatuation with the Mossad since it’s reportedly the worlds best intelligence service and it should be noted that Israel is a hotspot of world organized crime which also is deeply imbedded in the CIA.

I know some of what I’m saying here may sound conspiratorial and anecdotal. But when you put all the evidence that’s available it points to one direction.

Israel wanted to get Trump elected, so it’s backers poured money into this, Wikileaks collaborated with the Trump campaign and released damaging material about the Dems and almost nothing about the Republicans. It follows that Wikileaks is an Israeli Operation if it was involved in this scheme and other evidence has been accumulating over the years that it may well be a Mossad Operation.

If Assange was a completely unaffailiated citizen then they would’ve found a way to kill him now. If he was a Russian they would have done it in a way that leaved them blameless and potentially traded something to the Russians for it. They won’t kill a Mossad agent although it’s possible that those supporters of Hillary in the CIA tried with the alleged break in in but it didn’t succeed possibility because the embassy was tipped off by MI5 or Mossad.

I believe that the Russian government funds trolls and hackers to influence politics in all Western countries. I would do so too in their place. I don't believe they are nearly as influential as Democrats and other neocons pretend them to be.

The "Putinbot" thing is probably true to a small percentage but the real reason they want Russian news censored is because it largely opposes US imperialism and exposes them.

Which is more plausible:
- social media posting can sway the vote of an entire nation
or:
- a bunch of delusional retards mistake social media for reality, and Holla Forumsacks raiding their accounts for an evil russian plot?

I do, I just don't care. The effect of facebook trolls is minimal compared to the decades of conditioning by the MSM, and the fact is they are doing to us what we do to them anyway.

This. It's just the latest technological innovation for empires to disseminate propaganda. You can find obvious US/NATO shills as well, and DoD reports/ Foreign Affairs articles are openly pushing for more "applied online perception management".

PDF related for just how deep the US propaganda apparatus penetrated from leaked/declassified documents

Because Russia is objectively playing a progressive role in the geopolitical sphere. They are consistently a thorn in the side of US imperialism.

nvr forgt

There's no real Russian conspiracy going on.

Every nation is doing this sort of thing. USA is the most guilty of it of any country in the world. USA doesn't just keep it at a few propaganda messages, they destroy countries.

Didn't saudi arabia, netherlands, Israel and a bunch of other country governments donate large sums of money to Clinton? How isn't that trying to influence the election? BBC news writing a positive article about Clinton, can't the same be said about that?

The issue is here that when you have countries like Saudi Arabia or even Israel doing this + much more, it's stupid to just blame Russia. Go after the Saudis and you get blasted by media. Go after Israel and the same thing happens. Israel influences USA politics probably the most out of any foreign country.

There's no evidence behind it. You have dipshits doing this in France, political parties doing it, even European parties making their own fake news stories to pressure Russia.

There is no real proof behind Trump collusion, if there was the democrats would've jumped the opportunity at an instant to have him prosecuted for something. There is no real evidence.

Even ITT I still see no evidence. If there is no evidence for such a bold claim then it isn't an established fact.

The worst shills I have seen are pro EU shills. They are very easy to spot on European reddits. I can find a few. I didn't encounter much Russian shillbots though. I don't hang out on rightwing sites much, but just looking at the_donald I don't see anything too obvious.

Yes, the dems are certainly getting all the juice they can from this.
They kept quiet about the whole thing when they thought they'd win so as not to delegitimize the election, but no they will turn and squeal until the house burns to the ground.
To my amusement.

Of course not, I meant "I'll never know whether the leaks (all, some, any) were ruskie in origin (hacks, spies, moles, whatever)". I don't think so, but I wouldn't bet my life on that; it's not like they don't have hackers, and if they did actually hack their enemies (which sounds wise desu), it makes sense to give a second blow by leaking it all.
Assange is a memer libertarian, not a Russian shill.

Yes, agreed. This is the takeaway I guess

Pretty sure Israel (Likud) came out strongly for Trump

i don't quite see how any of it is relevant and the whole thing is buried under a metric fuckton of rhetoric. oh the russians are "interfering with the electorial process"? Literally everyone who does anything political interferes with the electorial process. Shit you don't really even have to do anything, if Putin looks at a candidate funny by accident there's gonna be six months of speculation on why it happened.

Because it's fucking stupid.

It isn't though. Stop arguing against it on their terms. What they want you to believe was physically impossible. It was a leak, plain and simple.

truthdig.com/articles/u-s-intelligence-veterans-believe-the-russian-hack-of-dnc-computers-may-have-been-an-inside-job/

really makes me think

...

Wikileaks is ran by the US
US used all of their media outlets to give it infinite PR

Euromaidan was the first and only time I witnessed very obvious literal shills on social media. Thepto Russian shills were all over /r/worldnews. I imagine they are more sophisticated today.

That’s interesting. What do you base that on besides the free press?

Empiric evidence
Every day of the past year at any given day CNN and all the other channels and all the news outlets on the internet were forcing the wikileaks meme
"PLEASE DON'T VISIT WIKILEAKS, IT'S AN EVIL SITE, PLEASE!! THEY SAY BAD THINGS ABOUT US!"

Georgia
East-Ukraine
Crimea
All their East Euro and central asian puppet states
Support of the Arab fascist Baathist regime
etc

Who is that fair maiden? I need sauce.

Kate Rooney Mara, from House of Cards
Apparently her being childish, innocent and autistic is some ebic Holla Forums meme, but /ck/ does it better

It's not "THE" party of idpol, it's one of the two parties of idpol.

I also wonder why they never show said views to their own populations.

Dumbest shit in this thread. The amount of liberal idpol pushed by the Democrats just doesn't actually compare to the GOP.

Trump blamed Russia for interfering in the election. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

Friendly reminder that only idiot tanks support Putin and his goons, here in Russia we hate the establishment more than anything else. Putinbots (we call them kremlibots tho) exist and are used mostly to censor anti putin material, this is done trough mass disliking videos and not letting them go to the recommended section.
Nothing pisses me more than fellow ML's sucking putin dick becouse he is anti US imperialism, YES HE FUCKING IS BUT THATS BECOUSE HE HAS HIS OWN IMPERIALIST AGENDA HE WANTS TO PUSH FORWARD

tanks don't care about the working class in your country because muh primary contradiction. they're hardly your fellows.

I agree with your post as a whole but can you explain pls

I generally agree with the post too, except for that part
There's this fantasy going around that Assange is a comped-kike-shill-mole-CGI character.
Every little thing that happens gets turned into a new proof of his death.

Truth is he's just locked up in there, shitposting his capitalist lolbertarian beliefs and micro-ranting about feminism
pic related is still true, and that's how others see him

morph cut
it's not that difficult, it's a morph cut, very used in the industry

Thanks for the sauce, I asked because her face looks similar to some girl I used to have a crush on. I have weird (some would say creepy) attraction towards all female actors/singers who look like the girls from real life I've had a crush on.

Why would I listen to Trotskyist propaganda?

You can always post some pics of girls you like on /r/, asking for porn actresses that look exactly like them.
Just an idea, I never did that so idk how well it would work, but I'm sure you'll get something