How do we keep the whackos, the hipsters and the aspiring academics out of the Left?
How do we keep the whackos, the hipsters and the aspiring academics out of the Left?
Other urls found in this thread:
1) Make rules against IdPol
2) Keep a quota of 3/4 full time workers and 1/4 everyone else (Students, NEETs, etc)
stop out reaching to reddit
get rid of tranny bo
stop using bots
I wonder if socialist parties today have such quotes. The First International issued one for the US when Woodhull coup'd the NY chapter.
Why should we want that?
at least two of those would be scared off by workers.
but it's not really about getting them out of the left, but making more time for the working class who have to work 2 full time jobs to survive.
stay far away from college liberals
Lmfao what is this from?
There will always be wackos and hipsters and aspiring academics so you don't want to keep them out but to keep them in and engage them.
Or if you want to LARP keep posting stupid shit.
Any political movement that promises radical changes in society is gonna have it's fair share of wierdos.
The solution is to market aggressively our movement to normies so we keep the fringe at bay.
Because they alienate regular people, they ruin the movements from within with their nonsense, they turn everything into just an articulation of their own subcultures and because their interests and projects don't tend to be related to worker's rights.
Danish bourgeois TV anti-Christiania propaganda.
Why would you not want aspiring academics on the left?
Seems like having people on your team who can read would be a good thing.
Here's a tip: "dialogue" doesn't fix everything, contrary to what liberal popular wisdom says. While we sustain the fantasy that we can talk people out of being idiotic pink-haired vegans and that we can turn the rebellious teenagers into serious Marxists, they are actively ruining everything they touch by making serious organization impossible and making the Left ludicrous on the eyes of common people. And by the time one of those grows out of being a dipshit, his presence and the presence of people like him will have attracted countless others just like them. It's a cycle, that you have to break by articulating that this is not their place.
An entire generation learned those things the hard way with events like OWS, when they were actually forced to engage these types for the first time while they embarrassed everyone and pushed politics that derailed everything, which made us realise that this was all hopeless until we have a serious change of demographics within the Left, but the influx of younger people of the past year dilluted the lessons of the experience, and we're repeating the same mistakes.
drugs belong to everyone?
seriously druggies belong in the gulag.
Recreative drugs are alright.
no. They stay in your system and render you unsuited for factory jobs or jobs that require cognitive skills.
There is no way to maintain physical health today. If you believe you are more than frail you are lying.
opium was a recreational drug and it brought down china
You don't, Just tell them you support all their struggles lgbt+ racism xenophobia etc. But say your movement is class focused as all socialists movements should be.
When they inevitably call you class reductionist or a brocialist. Point out that socialism in it's roots is about the class struggle and bring up all the recent liberal bullshit that is tagged as leftist but does not fit in socialist ideologies ex: doritos pride, Gay mcdonalds, more women/black CEOs.
They will have no choice but to support or respect you.
Honestly even the most barely conservative things are enough to spook most weirdos out of left wing organizing. I'm not saying we need to be reactionaries or anti-idpol, I mean conservative in the sense of "people ought to work for a living" being a popular principle in a group. Pressing points like that has in the past helped me get rid of the most annoying people in reading groups/organizing groups
Thread has been anchored. Could you please provide a link for this or post it in the OC thread? It’s just too funny
there is one youtube channel called "4chong"
I got it from there
where can I find this dude? I wanna fight drugs with him.
Why the fuck did the mods anchor this thread.
I swear this is COINTELPRO
Then you can't have any meaningful change. Clearly you need a substantial portion of population to make anything for it to not degenerate into a "real socialism" CCCP style. So while dialogue doesn't fix everything it is the only realistic option.
It's easier for you to explain the problem of idpol (as you are doing now) to "these types" then to ostracize everyone and somehow think it's a sound and viable strategy. Better learn from what all these old guyz like Zizek, Wolff, Badiou do and say and how nuanced their rhetoric is. Great example of this was Wolff in Fox News. When was the last time someone got on TV to discuss marxism? And remember that since OWS capitalism has quite some time to fuck itself up even more so it should be even easier.
Instead of shitposting how idpol is ruining everything make a remainder how all these antagonisms are ultimately rooted in the capitalistic base and cannot be overcome without dismantling it first.
The bottom line is, if you can't gather enough support for your cause then your cause is utter garbage from the perspective of current socioeconomic conditions.
You can't have a substantial portion of the population while you're allowing a political project to be run and presented by a demographic that represents a very narrow segment of the population, and that pushes their own fringe concerns over anything that could be unifying for the majority of the population. So instead of unifying on a class basis and shared concerns about the conditions of labour and waged work in compoterary society, we're injected with a handful of idealistic slogans that becomes our de facto official banners. So we have diverging class interests with these people, and to say you can solve that with dialogue is like saying we can invite the bourgeoisie and talk them out of capitalism. We talk and use dialogue with regular working people who want to understand the problems of the world and discuss potential solutions, not people who assume they already know everything about them and that their whole task is to force us to subscribe to their morals, their language, and their attitude.
When Victoria Woodhull took over one of the chapters of the Workingmen's International, pushed a bunch of free-love, spiritual nonsense that had no common ground with working people's concerns, and turned it into a fad among progressive middle-class urbanites Marx and the rest of the CC didn't dialogue with them, they told them to gtfo and forced a quota of working people on the chapter. That's the way to do it.
Ostracization has worked for them and they're succeeding in expelling from the Left anyone who doesn't share their concerns. So while you believe in deep political conversations with these people, they don't! I hope the irony has occured to you, because your side is the one guilty of everything you're talking about here. If you allow people who will go on a witch hunt over a joke or an improper commentary to let in, you're not going to talk them out of a witch hunt, that's what they're there to do, and we're giving them free pass.
This is already present in our literature, our theories, our journals, our tools of communication, everything. They don't know those because they don't read it, even though they identify as Socialists, Communists, and often take themselves as the representatives of these platforms. And they certainly don't want you talking about it either. Trying to explain these to people who have already their minds made up about how the problems of the world are to be solved (through drama) is something that works in fantasy. In reality you get dismissed and called a class reductionist.
So good luck for you if you want to be the one guy who will be the subject of some retarded Twitter thread about "that white DUDEBRO who tried to explain racism to ME!", but you will have to bear this burden alone. You need a good shock of reality, so it will be good for you.
Wrong, people care about who they associate with and who they will spend time with. And no tired single mom or broke blue-collar dude wants to spend time with petulant teenagers who do one thing and preach the other, with academics who live a completely different socioeconomic reality and are forced by their students and institutions into a passive, emasculated form of radical politics, with subculture faddists who want a platform for their bullshit, and so on. And since we're struggling with this problem since literally the 19th century I don't think I'm the one who doesn't speaks to "current socioeconomic conditions". I also hardly think that the people who try to get someone expelled from the Democratic Cops of America because of a joke do so because that's what "current socieconomic conditions" dictate.
No idea tbh. I'll admit myself this is a shit thread but so are most of the non-anchored ones so idk.