What are Holla Forums's thoughts on LGBTQ+ individuals?
In my view, a socialist utopia should benefit all citizens, queer or not.
Although, even on the left, opinions on this seem to be quite varied, so I'd like some of your input.
What are Holla Forums's thoughts on LGBTQ+ individuals?
In my view, a socialist utopia should benefit all citizens, queer or not.
Although, even on the left, opinions on this seem to be quite varied, so I'd like some of your input.
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I'm not straight myself, and people shouldn't be discriminated against on the basis of their sexual orientation. But post-modern queer theory is id pol garbage and has nothing to do with revolutionary socialism.
No not really, it’s pretty settled on the left. Most leftists are pro gay, and those that are t necessarily anti gay. Here on leftypol it’s not that we’re anti gay, we just don’t think more “queer CEOs” is gonna solve anything. So there really isn’t much to talk about under the current system
I'd like to have sex with some of them
I don't care. Let them do their thing because I like my property happy =D Saying that, LGBTQ+ people seem to be the most friendly people I've encountered.
That's what I was referring to when I mentioned that. There's a debate between diversity solving things and if it's just dumb (my stance).
Don't care, fuck whoever you want.
Homosexuality is a late-capitalist social deviation. Gulag.
TLDR: I'm bi, only really tell friends, family, support group, or co-workers, some random person who doesn't give a shit irl doesn't need to know you're gay.
I'm bi and a socialist, I don't want an oppression Olympics award just because I happen to be bi or gay.
Try and get support from friends, family, join a minor LGBT support group if family isn't friendly. The only time I personally consider it oppression is when your entire family will disown you for being gay which by then you can go seek for more help.
Where is this argument happening? I’m not sure if you’re new here (if so, welcome!) but if so I’ll be very clear, we are not liberals. We do not support democrats, we are entirely outside the conservative/liberal dichotomy.
What I refered to and what you call dumb is what we call identity politics. An example is bourgeois feminism (more women CEOs). We here on leftypol, or even a fair amount of other leftist circles don’t see a point in fighting for such things. What we oppose is class, the idea of wealth disparity. We don’t think the solution is to help more “underprivileged” people join the exploited class. Our goal is to abolish the class system it’s entirity
My main opinion is I miss my gay Irish MArxist buddy. Where'd you go. ;_;
Should say exploiting class
Ah. Yes, I am new. That makes much more sense. Thanks!
Much more welcoming then the shit I'm used to on other boards.
It's bourgeois liberal aristocratic capitalistic petty boutgeois fascist decadence and muh dege.neracy!
Well I can’t always promise people will be as welcoming as I (it’s a chan and people get salty) but in general leftypol is quite different from other boards
Please stay awhile, lurk moar, ask questions. Enjoy your stay here this place is special
Identity Politics is good. You can't refute this.
there is literally no reason to single out lgbt people for discrimination. Most queer people are proles anyway (which probably explains why so many ☭TANKIE☭s hate them)
Identity politics is bad. There's your refutation.
idpol is bourgeois trash you clown. it's how the capitalists subvert marginalized groups for their own devices
I am gay for Stalin.
Basically what they said but without the gulag. Its a symptom but not a problem in and of itself.
I won't rest until we get state enforced pinkpilling and catboy corps in the army
I wanna say things are the same for me but then I remembered in texas I can be fired or evicted for being gay so I just never tell anyone.
Fellow texasfag here, really? I don't doubt you cuz most laws here are bullshit.
I wonder who could be behind this post
That makes 3 of us
We need this.
SUWWENDER OR DIE!
I'm a straightfag fam.
There are no "LGBTQ+ individuals" - it has no function as an identity. The acronym has always been a political marriage of expedience of subcultures that historically had (and in many ways still have) very little to do with each other culturally or socially. At this point it is almost exhausted even as an adhoc political grouping in the west - it largely exists as a marketing gimmick.
that doesn't make it wrong
christ what genitals you enjoy having on your doesn't even begin to come close to fucking mattering
Oh, don't get too comfortable! Here are enough scumbags…
That's not really true, though. I mean, the "Q" on the end is especially insane - "Queer" for much of modern history was largely a slang term for homosexuals, often with disparaging connotations. It's almost offensively redundant in a way. "Gay" has/had immediate social crossover with "lesbian" - besides the semantic bit that "gay" is also an umbrella for homosexuality in general, they and trannies were basically sharing the same clubs for a long time (and actually still do since lesbo-centric bars are experiencing bed death in many regions). And bisexuals for a long time were pretty much just part-time fags.
Who cares? You're all faggots anyway!
There is no reason to oppress queer people. Beyond that, I don't care. I'm not a communist so I can spend all day talking about idpol.
To be honest what bothers me most is that her "lipstick" is only applied to the middle of the lip so it looks like a Hitler mustache or something
Eh, mostly the Q+.
I'm anti-idpol, so the "let's promote the trendies as SPECIAL and ABOVE EVERYONE" is no different than "let's put white males above everyone." Same reactionary bullshit, different illusionary chips. Someone who says "as a gay black trans person, I say we gas the kikes" is just someone saying "gas the kikes," not some sort of "special" person.
On the other hand, I'm… anti-idpol. So, this world is for everyone, one rule for one label and a different rule for a different label is bullshit, everyone's free, be who you are.
This tends to align me a bit more with pedophiles and the fursitioning than with monogamygay(whites only) and the classically trans - i.e., the actually-queer, not someone that facebook and capitalist media fucking fawn over. But the root of it all is that this revolution is for everyone, and everyone's okay.
Fuck your idpol, but all are welcome.
Who gives a flying fuck where your dick/fingers/tongue goes
As long as the person receiving it wants it, I don't give a shit.
never understood how that hand gesture became so famous. In Italy it means "what the hell do you want/are you doing" nothing else.
REACTIONARY SCUM GTFO
I'll take the L, G, and B (with reservations), but the T, Q, and + can take their retarded bullshit and fuck off.
who gives a damn they ain't hurting anyone
I read only 2 books of Bordidab and i love how he change from become a young revolutionnary with hope to a armchair here if you want to read some :
also wtf with 5 thread of Bordiga
they are gay
I have a massive chip on my shoulder about the modern use of the word "queer" as a catchall and as a trendy academic or political shibboleth. Being described that way or included in it is one of the few things in politics that I find genuinely offensive and that I'm willing to go full idpol over. Especially grating is that its adoption has been pushed mostly by women (and feminist women to boot - those same who come from a tradition that has accused us of being arch-misogynists worse in every way than straight men and amongst other charming diatribes even compared us to literal nazis) in recent years - that is, people who rarely to never had it yelled at them in venom, people who never had to hear it over the sound of their ribs being kicked in in the street, people who never heard it used laughingly while being thrown into the back of a police van after a beating by the cops - all of which I've personally experienced and that have been experienced by many men I know.
It's the hill I'm willing to die on really. If you think it's not cool for some white dude to go around calling blacks niggers to their face but you're a woman or a straight dude using "queer" as if its nice and fluffy and inclusive, then fuck you quite honestly. You are not Randall from Clerks II and it isn't up to you to "take it back".
This is why we need to purge all homos
Strange and happy that way, though…
They are fine, i wish they would stop making socialism all about them though
The more letters it incorporates, the less legitimacy it has. What's wrong with "queer" and what happened to the pink stripe in the flag?
You could simply sum it up with "Men are problematic. Period."
I dont really give a shit tbh
Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Trans people are fine with me. from what I've is they just wish live their lives like the rest of us.
"""Queer""" is an artificial creation of social constructionists. Persons who have adopted this label seem to be a movement intent on demanding the rest of the populace engage in bizarre sexual acts with them, regardless of the actual desires of those outside the group. As a result, I oppose """Queers""".
Can I fuck you?
The T always comes at the expense of the LGB. It is literally just alt-right anime perverts living out a pornographic fantasy. Reactionary as fuck and has no place in proper leftist praxis.
Not sure what the popular stance is around here but I honestly hate trans people. I don't mind gays or bisexuals, but transsexuals disgust me on a personal level. It's not just the fact they mutilate their body and take hormones and dress as something they're not, they're just in general awful people from my personal experience. They're also extremely self-centered, so no, they don't care about socialism or anything like that, they're too busy ERP'ing with lonely fags on the internet. They're just in general useless people who are only interested in their own sexual deviancy.
Meh, as long as they paid it from their own pocket I dont see any problem. No one forces me to get sex change, and no one forces me to mingle with people who have gone through it. Let the flowers blossom.
How much do I want to bet you're a man.
I mean it kinda does…kinda. In the 3rd and second world it's pretty significant
To my understanding the "Q" men's Questioning, not Queer.
Should not make any difference
Just move away from the screen my man
I'm fine with it.
I do think we should put our foot down on made up genders, however, as they are conflating gender with personality at best and enabling mental illness at worst. You can be a gay man who likes to put make up on, you don't need a special label for that.
I'm fucking tired of all the self-loathing LGTBQABCD faggots constantly begging for attention, demanding the world to validate their identity while fighting among themselves over who is the purest gay special snowflake and who is a poseur, slut, rapist, trender, pedo, TERF etc.. Just compare Holla Forums to /lgbt/. there is way more hate and negativity on the latter and it's not because they got "co-opted". Nobody hates faggots more than faggots hate themselves so it's really up to the faggots to get their shit sorted out and no one else.
Anyway this is why LGBT people need to be gassed. Heil H8tler.
all the trap and fluid gender shit is a 100% bourgeois decadence
with the rate of profit declining fat cats don't know what to do with their money so they blow it on hormone therapy, genital surgery n shiet
pretty sure not every society and pretty sure it was a primary elite thing
what can you say, elites and fun are the two sides of the same coin
I grew up with the word "queer" being used as an insult but now people are telling me it is not a pejorative. Am I just supposed to forget its use as an insult now?
I loathe this kind of thinking.
Most people will never find themselves in such an awkward position so their general reaction to the hypothetical is "i dunno lol". I used the Tinder app to find a partener and one of my matches was a transgender individual. I did not know this person was transgender until they actually told me. I felt an internalized sense of extreme annoyance that they didn't indicate this on their profile. Why is the immediate inclination that people have about an unwillingness to have sex with a transgender individual transphobia?
Honestly, this whole issue is a distraction from seizing the means of production and liberating the proletariat.
Thank you for not using the word "degeneracy". You are helping us in the fight against Holla Forums.
woman has no penis, whatever
It means both, but I usually get the impression it's the first Q. The extended +, depending on who you're talking to will default go to "LGBTQQ+" "LGBTQQIA+," etc. There are formulations where it has two distinct Qs.
FALGSC or death tbqh.
Are Colby Keller and Conner Habib /ourguys/, like Sasha Grey is /ourgirl/?
Also I meant muh fun pol buzzword less in muh religious values or muh race!!!! And more rapists and thing likes that get a gulag
You can fuck behind your doors all you want, but the moment you start complaining about muh lgbt and doing socially inappropriate and shitty things in public you get a gulag
I don't disparage them or their identity movements necessarily, but it's important to recognize that at the present moment they're being used as a cudgel by the neoliberal establishment.
Yes socially inappropriate, we're trying to run a society here not a 200 person commune so social cohesion is a must especially in the transformation from Capitalism.
Socially inappropriate things such as…? You think gay people fuck in the streets any more than straight people do? Is kissing inappropriate? How about holding hands?
How can we make the LGBT movement support socialism?
Yes, yes I do. If you've ever been to a pride parade you'll know it's obviously about pride but it's also about being as outward as possible, it's a regular event for men to piss on each-other in public whenever the yearly one comes by in my city, In fact there's an infamous guy who lies in piss troughs and asks to be peed on. They also wear ripoff Nazi uniforms (lol)
Nope that's fine, the country needs stable families and morals to maintain society so we can reach communism.
Oh no, anything but that
Do you know where you are?
LGBTQ+ is literally the only topic Holla Forums truly cares about. This thread will pass 500+ posts.
I think LGBT makes a pretty good sandwich(lettuce, goat-cheese, bacon, tomato) and if you add some quesadillas + other shit, you got yourself a hearty meal.
Lets just walk around and have fap bins you can cum into whenever you get a boner, what are you a spook? Rolling in shit and then smearing it onto yourself and other people in public is fine
Is that a promise?
See, people say "if you've ever been to a pride parade" every time, but I've been to several in more than one city and never seen a guy piss on another guy at one. Seen more guys march in business suits at pride parades than piss on eachother.
Like the rampant fun is usually a small fraction of the parade - but there are a bunch of people in short-shorts, too, so if like 5 guys have dildos and dog masks then anyone without a shirt within 3 miles is implicated.
Sexual politics and "liberation" is a Porky 5th column.
Sexual orientation as an identity is utterly meaningless and should be discarded. It's wholly an invention of 20th century pseudoscience that started with the eugenics movement.
Outside of procreation, sexuality is null and irrelevant. It's a giant nothing. I don't know why anyone would want to make it into more than what it is, except that they are devoid of any ideas except their base instincts.
Buttsex was illegal.
That seems a bit much. When fucking still gets people arrested, people fucking don't have a choice in what they make of it.
It would have to happen organically. I think they'll eventually wise up to the manipulation once multinationals and talking heads no longer feel compelled to champion their cause.
Maybe because people were (and in some places still are) discriminated, persecuted and killed because of it.
That's unlikely to happen.
We have to actively fight idpol bullshit and introduce economics. The lgbt movement started out with some ties to radical politics, and lost it as it mainstreamed. That's not going to reverse. Or, it's unlikely - I suppose if the US gets closer still to a Russian or Chinese authoritarian capitalist model, social policy could reverse. But then a leftist revolution would be, frankly, even harder.
Yes fap bins on every corner. Or even better pic related
Most boogymen sjw's aren't red haired overweight feminist women either but they describe the movement.
I have no problem with those good men I just think you need a stable society if your going though the very unstable process of moving into Communism and having a stable family one mother and one father so far evidence speaking is the most stable and gets you a nice bunch of future socialists. Children should learn about gay and lesbians but not be exposed to whatever classifies as propaganda and i mean actually learn not Christian tier learning. The dog mask wearing piss public people Holla Forums thinks is all gay people deserve to reform or get some gulag work for disrupting society.
Then the argument should be that laws against anal sex and homosexuality should be scrapped, not that we need to respect some made-up identity of "sexual orientation" and play identity politics.
Where do you draw the line though? Why is beastiality outlawed when humans routinely enslave and kill animals anyway?
Everyone would be better off if men and women just kept their pants on and didn't fuck anything. We're not that far from being able to synthesize seed and egg, and if humans ever figure out genetics properly and get past their eugenics-inspired horseshit we could straight-up engineer offspring at the genetic level. That would get rid of the reproductive justification for the sex feefees and instincts, at least, and produce far more adaptable offspring.
by "homosexuality" i'm referring to same-sex acts between people, not anything like orientation (even though i'm using the wrong word - i hate myself for falling victim to the sexual identitarian word trap).
Fair enough. If you could get more people interested and reading theory then you could probably flip the silly "brocialist" thing on it's head after a while.
This is either bait or just a really fucking insufferable tanky. How can you call yourself a materialist and say that stupid shit?
Engineering humans is a phenomenally bad idea. The current genome has had an immense amount of field testing. Fucking about with it will almost certainly introduce vulnerabilities we are too stupid to notice.
Actually I forgot that there's only two -not one- topics Holla Forums cares about.
One is faggotry and the other one is the incel bullshit. Because half the board is mentally ill faggots from reddit and the other half is the classical virgin loser channer retard.
Meanwhile porky smiles resting assured that nobody will ever threaten the system for real because everybody is distracted discussing very important things not related to the system and the working class at all but just very niche bullshit of the mentally ill realms.
The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Without such things to rally around, people advocating legalization of such things are only alone. The reality is that in any society where these things are noticed (ie, any society, and obviously any society where there are or have been laws on the books) the "identities" emerge - in the same way that workers in our society tend to have a particular field, or in the same way that any other criminalized group bears some benefit from keeping a particular company.
The difference between an illegal homosexual (I can call them that or "sodomites" - it's not as though there were no other terms identifying them) and, say, a murderer, is that one crime is sex which occurs with consent while the other is murder. Even a drug smuggling ring fares better than one guy who has to do all the work and break all the laws and then defend himself in court. It doesn't mean that Chapo&Co. is idpol, but they still exercise power and influence as a group.
What's not useful is being at eachother's throats, oppression Olympics, allowing corporations to co-opt us. This stuff is happening. But being inherently labeled and then presenting one's self as merely human and refusing to act in coordination with other people who've been labeled the same… it seems as though it just leaves a person open to being labeled without any say in how.
Was actually legal many places before homosexuality was. Also, legal age of consent in… where was it… Delaware, I think, in the late 1800s was like 9. That was on the books. And sodomy was still punishable by prison or death.
What we've actually seen is the opposite of the "slippery slope." In the US, the age of consent has risen to the teens, bestiality has been gradually more-and-more illegalized due to dangers and the problem of consent (you could just as well ask why we have any animal abuse laws - it's seen as shitty to just beat or rape an animal for no reason, that's basically it), and from the '60s to the 2000s, homosexuality has been gradually legalized throughout the country.
What are you, a porky shill?
foucault-pill on how 'gay' identity became a thing when the state began to take an interest on homosexual behaviour. That's why I'll always be suspicious of any attempt to celebrate this or that identity
This is literally what killed Debord. Fuck off
most people who identify as 'queer' are actually straight white women with neon hair. Gays are about to become a minority in their own community. stop gay genocide
Destroy yourself, bi-scum.
nothign different from modern greeks, just a bunch of greasy pedophiles
anyone who is against the liberation of bisexuals gets the wall
Bi-scum are the most petty bourgeois "people" on this gay earth. They're all disgustingly promiscuous but equally amenable to reactionary politics because they can just stick their syphilitic meat rods in a woman. Bi-scum must be exterminated as a crucial goal of the elimination of counterrevolutionary elements.
His name is Noah Kurosawa
He even made a thread on /trap/ some time ago
In any legitimate socialist discussion this thread wouldn't even exist, anyone asking such question would get bitch slapped.
If you think socialism is somehow selective beyond the prole, then you never knew what socialism is to begin with
This board is shit and youre all fucking retards
yea, porky would be shaking in his boots if only this lefty paul dude got serious
If only it was just Holla Forums getting distracted and co-opted and not the entire left…
only if you're a smug anime girl
that's the problem with what "pride" has become
You just can't please everyone
why gays even need all these silly parades?
I've never seen a straight dude parade
IIRC they began as protest parades against harassment and discrimination. Eventually they've turned into the big parties of today.
They were epic and edgy when gays were illegal. Now it's like tradition I guess. No one forces me to go to them so I don't really care.
nothing you said was true
you get the wall my nigger
For gays and their friend it served as a way to show solidarity with one another and publicly come together without being harassed by the state and/or bigots, as well as sending the message that 'it's okay to be gay in the gay way'. When analyzing the role of the powers-that-be, the 'Gay Pride Parade' serves as an early example of neo-liberal posturing: playing both sides by allowing gays to organize while not getting too involved and so free to pull the rug out of the actual organizers feet if need be. Superficial, empty gesturing rather than systemic change.
Straight men form the bulk of dominant culture and 'being straight' was and is the norm/normal of society: what is expected. Gays, on the other hand, were seen as aberrations (on a good day, as abominations on a bad one) and so experienced hardships specifically based on their identification as homosexual. As mentioned above: gay pride parades were organized in the hopes of changing this norm to at least include homosexuality as acceptable. (Though, judging by this thread, some 'comrades' still hold to the opposite.)
Obviously any worker, regardless of their individual identity, ought to be free and should organize in other forms (unions, syndicates, communes, etc.) to represent their interests and for collective gain. A pride parade would be far from the best way to organize in this case, though.
In short: straight men didn't experience enough hardships, specifically based on their orientation alone, to warrant a 'pride parade'.
Thank you for asking questions, rather than making rash assumptions based on ignorance alone.
Here's a straight men parade
Nice strawman. There's plenty of trannies who are perfectly normal aside from that but you completely ignore them for that very reason and instead focus on the drama queens and attention whores.
Bitch I will fight you
And I wouldn't say that the whole "gender fluid" stuff is "bourgeois decadence", but it seems like its frequently the result of a weird form of gender essentialism where people conflate gender identity with stereotypical gender roles-
This, being used as a bargaining chip by various groups of porkies is fucking awful.
Ebin post :DDDDD
Exactly my take. I should read Foucault one of these days but I'm a brainlet.
I don't think anyone should internalize a mental condition like this, or internalize legal status as a personal characteristic. I know it's damn near impossible when shit is heaped upon someone, but no oppressed person gets out by accepting society's fucked-up-ness as nature.
My co-workers and I want to know how to trigger them so they'll disperse themselves at a protest? Because it's getting easier cause tear gas and all, but it's hard enough as it is trying to identify meat flower from meat flower. Just give up and go home already. No body likes you. Not even your families. The only good commie is a dead commie but even then, you need money for a burial plot. Just get a job already and quit kevetching.
My thoughts exactly. Like is there some blanket word or lines that would make the group cringe and run for cover? Would simply saying the word TRUMP do it? Cause buying rubber bean bags supports the economy and all but if this group can be this lazy about their own ideologies, why do we have to put in effort into arresting them when they become unruly? Somebody could make a billion dollars just by creating a daycare just for these incompetent and mentally ill children. I wouldn't necessarily put them in prison because all of their wild sexual fantasies would come true, but the mental institutions have become too soft for these people. It's almost like we need a bunch of facilities across the states specifically dedicated to correct the amount of brainwashing these people have subjected themselves to. I would have pity for them but then I would be out of a job to serve and protect.
Aristocratic slave owners fucking little boys. Ancient Greece *is* the argument for the view that homosexuality = pedophilia = a ruling class predation; sadism.
I think homosexuality is a sexual dysfunction, and transsexuality a mental illness. The extent to which they are comorbid with other mental illnesses ought to serve as an indication that all is not well mentally with these individuals.
Pederasty, for the most part, was unironically not medical pedophilia™. Regardless, women in ancient Greece married at 14, and it wasn't so they could wait. Men preferred younger partners in general, and the pederastic tradition was only a relatively small (by comparison, but not insignificant entirely) part of this.
Idpol diversion, focus on class struggle instead.
Just as the history of all hitherto existing society is the history of class struggle, Marx also generalised this to other forms of oppression and power structures. If we are to end history, then we need to end these power structures that still persist de facto even if they are gone in de jure (Civil Rights Act and other bourgeois-to-proletariat appeasement/Christmas liquor schemes). We need to reverse this trend and put more support to those who have been historically oppressed: women, GSM, PoC, the disabled, mentally different people, and so on.
Idpol only exists to devide us so that we don't rise up.
Is this Molotov-Ribbentrop owo
Go play oppression olympics somewhere else, liberal.
Are you spooked by the homosexuality is fascist thing?
it's absurdity. pure identitarianism and fantasy. the notion that we can mark substantial differences between people according to their sexual behaviour is just nonsense
it amazes me that homosexuals essentially want to view themselves, and nonhomosexuals by extension, as separate species
identity is a cancer. and obsession with it a mental illness. i spit on this "LGBTQ+" garbage; the psychology behind it is the same behind racism and "racial identity." that most people can't see this just boggles my mind
accurate materialist analysis/10
use this flag next time for posting
Am I wrong?
Tbh I'm really tired of the rainbow flag, not to mention it is now intertwined with peak neoliberalism. Leftyfaggots should just abandon it.
I hope BPP doesn't mean Black Panther Party because fucking kill yourself
Why should he do that?