Discuss this evil capitalist propoganda against the Glorious anti imperialist DPRK
Discuss this evil capitalist propoganda against the Glorious anti imperialist DPRK
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I like their new line of tanks, even if they are just T-90 copies.
Wouldn't it be great if the NK government had an embassy in leftypol?
I hate it too, when capitalist media is bashing North Korea. But it is simply wrong to believe, that the ruling party in NK has any socialist or anti imperialist aspirations.
gtfo with your moralism
Yeah those are obviously Goa'uld bodysnatchers they use to control people.
Well, actually, the healthcare is pretty alright in the DPRK considering their situation:
Why? Also, how are they not the most anti-imperialist country in the world?
The Bourgeoisie is the only parasites, comrades.
*two decades of mass starvation later
nepotism within a republic is not a monarchy you retard.
[wwe crowd chanting 'you both suck]
Be honest: Would you like to live in this country? And just because they have military parades and are waving red flags, doesn't make them anti-imperialist. The NK government does nothing revolutionary, they are just trying at all cost to hold this sick regime together.
We can say with 100% certainty that (assuming no coups or invasions) Kim Jong-Un's infant son will be the next supreme leader. That is monarchy.
In republics electors have a meaningful choice about who to be their next leader. In North Korea leadership is hereditary. It's literally a principle of Juche that leadership of the revolution must be passed down through the generations of the Kim family.
No we don't. It could just as well be some unrelated General.
A monarchy is a state where the head of state gets his power from divine and/or inherited right. Constitutionally NK is a republic and sovereignty is derived from the people (whether or not in practice this is the case, I'm talking legally).
There are plenty of nepotistic republics in the world and historically.
Reactionaries won't appreciate this post.
Ten Principles for the Establishment of a Monolithic Ideological System
10. We must pass down the great achievement of the revolution by the Great Leader comrade Kim Il-sung from generation to generation, inheriting and completing it to the end.
your fault for reading shit
Juche doesn't say that. All North Korean leaders were and are elected.
You didn't answer my question. I think threatening the US with nukes is as revolutionary as you can get. As for your question, I've been to the DPRK and it was pretty cool. I could totally imagine to live there for a while, but I like to shitpost and play vidya, so that's a problem.
read the link I posted
Do you have literally zero reading comprehension? The funny thing is that you have quoted something which is the work of Kim Yong-ju, who opposed the succession.
Literally defending imperialism. The DPRK was under the Soviet umbrella at that point, and then withdrew from the treaty as the latter collapsed, Clinton then broke a deal with them to release US pressure from the Korean peninsula so they stopped for while until that retard Bush declared them part of the "axis of evil".
Do you expect them to just sit idly by as they see how every other country of the "axis of evil" gets bombed? This is a case of self-defense. The USA broke the agreement, so they are free to pursue nuclear weapons. If you actually gave a shit about international law (you don't) you'd realize that the West (and many other countries) pretty violates massive core aspects of international all the fucking time and zilch happens.
I support the DPRK as far as anti-imperialism goes. It's not that I hate them, I'd just sure as hell not want to live there, their model of socialism really has degraded. Considering their situation though, I'd say they're doing alright.
By which aspects?
More from what I've heard from other people as I have no real solid evidence about the DPRK.
Got anything on NK that proves contrary to my statement? I really wanna support these guys but I aint got any ammo to use against anti-DPRK arguments.
Well, I'd argue that they maintain production for use within a planned economy, have workplace democracy, an armed populace, no taxes, partly a gift economy, etc.
So much the socialism part. As for their situation they have a growing economy since the last three years (more growth than South Korea) and really do focus on making the lives of their citizens the easiest they can (sports facilities, amusement parks, science centers, etc.). I also can confirm that they are literally the cleanest country in the world. I've never seen anything like it, that, together with the absolute lack of any advertising and their retro-scifi style in architecture makes it aesthetically very pleasing.
It's obviously not a paradise but if you go ahead and compare the situation of the average North Korean with the average person in Rwanda (a country with a similar GDP), the DPRK is actually proof that socialism works far, far better than capitalism.
*who supported his own succession.
Fuck now I can't wait for when the DPRK gets their government shit together.
Also, got sources? Liberals fucking hate me having sources.
Are you sure, that it wasn't just potemkin villages which you have visited?
I've made a thread about North Korean workplace democracy recently here, with sources:
Pic related is their economic growth rate, source is the Bank of (South) Korea. This is an higher economic growth than South Korea.
I can assure you that the DPRK is not the Truman show. How fucking arrogant would it be to assume that they would stage entire cities just for ten tourists? We had this annoying American who would insist that they would turn on the machines in a factory because he didn't think they would work. The guide said the workers are already at home. He kept insisting it, it was really rude, and eventually the guide got someone from the staff and they did turn on the machines, and they worked.
Now it could be that this factory doesn't currently operate, but that's just speculation. The problem is that due to the sanctions, the DPRK really is constantly short on energy, now that China allows itself to be cucked by Trump as well. During the night, electricity is turned off to save energy which is good for the enviroment I guess. The USA usually then takes a photo from a satelite and uses it to mock them. I'm sure you have seen images like that.
On the countryside, you often see men working the fields manually or with animals. Rural life in North Korea is, well, rural, except some shining cooperatives they like to show. This is also because of the lack of fuel, and big agricultural machines use up a lot of fuel. The do have hundreds of tractors waiting in line to be used, but aren't rich on energy:
Often you see people in uniform helping with the farmwork. These are not soldiers of the KPA, they are part of the Red Guard, a peasent milita, contrary to what many people claim. You can clearly see there that they are really concerned about food, they never want the 90s to happen again, pretty much every available piece of land is turned into farmland.
Before 1991, it was totally okay to walk arround in North Korea freely, but at that time people started purposely seeking out the bad spots and took dozens of photos there and then presented them in the West to smear the DPRK. Since then you can only do guided tours, and of course they show you the nicer spots, would you visit a ghetto in Detroit when doing a tour through the US? Technically, they are also still at war. However, they let you walk arround freely in Pyongyang and I would imagine in other cities as well for a two to three hours. You can also speak to anybody you want within that time which led to someone starting to stalk random people on the street to get stuff out of them (surprisingly they were all hot girls). Generally it depends on how much the guide trusts you.
top shit comrade
I'm sorry Mr. Tank, but you can't convince me. I think it is very possible, that tourists only see the bright sides of NK. This was in the Sovjet Union and in the Khmer Ruoge cambodia the same.
Convince you of what? You already retreated from your original claim (that what I saw were just Potemkin Villages) and claim now that is was just really selective.
I've been through this before. You are going to claim that everything outside Pyongyang shit. Then, when you see pictures of Wonsan or whatever, you say that's just the cities and not the countryside. When you see pictures of the countryside you will say that's not the real countryside. There is no winning against you people because you are only seeing ideology.
I want liberals to leave
If you are such an edgelord tanky that you feel compelled to deny the monarchism of DPRK, you need to reevaluate your ideology.
Monarchy maybe but not feudal.
Did this actually happen though, I know that newspapers will often use south korean tabloids for nork news, but sometimes this shit does end up true.
The original source appears to be the Korean Biomedical Review, which obviously a capitalist propoganda outlet attempting to disguise as a ordinary medical journal.
You see DPRK has free for all healthcare, so our people have no parasites.
This is true. Remember the unicorn, man landing on the sun, and numerous haircut stories? All of them turned out to be sourced from South Korean gossip media and not actually true.
I wonder what Bordiga would have said about NK
user, one of these users is clearly being sarcastic. Not only are parasites endemic to many poorer parts of the world, but he could have also contracted more from filth entering his wounds. It's not at all out of the question that he has parasites.
Are you calling glorious DPRK poor?
ONE MIRRION YEARS GURAG
Fresh lies from capitalist pig dog's at Newsweek
They claim that Supreme Leader's brilliant plan to fertilize fields with human feces might be causing massive parasite outbreak.
Obviously this is a lie as DPRK has free healthcare for all, so our feces are parasite free and safe for human consumption.
Kill yourself anytime soon.
Compared to living in a first world country no. If I lived in some 3rd world shit hole though your goddamn right I would. Where would you rather live
or here youtube.com
Seems some leftists actually like north-korea for being a sterile prison, they're the sort of people who are bothered more by dirty streets than totalitarian conformity, natural slaves, cucks..
I highly doubt Pyongyang is representative of the rest of North Korea
When you check out pictures from Wonsan and so forth it really isn't that different.
please drop the nukes kim-sama
When I'm seeing bedraggled areas in capitalism despite having unemployment I'm indentifying a functional deficit. All socialist countries had and have full employment and clean streets.
It's not the DPRK that wants these sanctions or totally dysfunctional relations to the rest of the world.
That's pretty funny considering so many socialists just outright condemn North Korea because it's indefensible in front of liberals.
People are so brainwashed about the DPRK it's sometimes scary. Even intellegent people that I know go batshit about them.
Great leader has excellent improvisational skills and is well studied in agriculture so his plan was sure to succeed. All reports of parasites in cowardly defectors are capitalist propoganda.
DPRK feces make excellent fertilizer and result in delicious vegetables for our people. Our glorious supreme leader's wisdom is indeed without bounds.
Yes comrade, what you say is true. The areas that are available to visit and photograph are exactly like the rest of our great country.
Our great leader magnanimously allows foreigners on guided tours of our wonderful cities and villages. These tourists are shown a glimpse of daily life exactly as it plays out across the rest of our country. These tourists are allowed to take photos of whatever they wish and speak to any locals they encounter.
So did all concentration camps.
No, what they want is to be murdered for leaving the country or joking about Kim-jong un, with the blood being immediately washed away to keep the streets clean of course.
It's pretty funny that using this very website would be reason for your execution in north korea.
It took you only one post for Godwin's law?
I'd like to have a source for that. When I was there they had Frozen on the TV. Sure, access to information is limited but this myth that you get publicly executed when you watch a Hollywood move is just another piece of insane propaganda.
Imperialist lies. The people of the DPRK have open access to internet web pages. Some of our important scientists use the internet to collaborate with European scientists on String theory research.
But it's clean and there's no unemployment, what's not to like, is there not enough soap to compulsively wash your hands for hours on end?
Clean streets, no unemployment, frozen on the TV… please tell me they also tell me they have communal table tennis, then it would be just perfect!
I said this website not hollywood movie. Also, how do you know the TV was not a prop?
The north korean people must be so happy that they simply stare at their screens in complete bliss.
I could also say that there was penal labor in Auschwitz, now the USA also has penal labor, therefore USA is the equivalent to Auschwitz. This was your argument idiot. Truly at this point you would benefit from reading Molymeme's book.
So you are saying the entire city was staged for me? I must truly be a really important person. You know, there are reports and videos from people who work in the DPRK, like Jada Parker on YouTube, or this book:
These people had access to most things, could walk arround freely, and they don't ever say that everything is fake or whatever. You realize what you are making is a pretty intense claim, right? Yet you have nothing to prove it. You argument is entirely based on your ideological bias.
I'm pretty sure I could not work for the government in my country when they know that I am an Holla Forums user as well. A country that is technically still at war would crack down on people who post on Nazi HQ with CP? Unbelievable!
Holla Forums tier
Those are photos from tourists or researchers. They are not propaganda photos. Pic related is a propaganda photo.
You know what's truly Holla Forums tier? Pulling outrageous tinfoil tier stuff out of your ass with zero sources whatsoever. Do you think the DPRK is like the Matrix or whatever?
Difference being that no one is saying that the USA is a good place to live because it has penal labour.
No, please learn the difference between a TV and a city.
I see, the defectors are all wrong, the useful idiots who get chaperoned and don't perceive more than clean streets, tall buildings and friendly people are right. Maybe that explains the fanboyism, a real life airstrip one perfectly suits their own utter banality.
Yes, the internet is for capitalist and using it should be punishable by dead, so dodge the bullet and defect to north korea ASAP.
Point is your analogy is absolute shit. Case closed.
You claimed earlier that everything I saw was a prop and made fun of communal tennis courts (which did actually exist!). For some reason I'm supposed to believe that this is all fake, why? For what reason?
The defectors are handpicked by the South Korean government, who literally bribes them:
What information can we gain from these defectors who appear on TV? The guy who claimed Camp 14 was a concentration camp has admitted he was outright lying. The girl who said that her mom was executed for watching a Hollywood movie makes up a new version of her story every time.
What about the defectors we don't listen to? To the ones that dwell in Chinese and South Korean border towns in slum-like conditions, and regulary go back to North Korea.
A poll amongst defectors has is favourably towards Kim Jong-un:
So here is the thing: I don't see where I made the claim that life in North Korea is like life in Switzerland or something. I don't know how you can read my posts and possibly come to this conclusion. My claim was: Considering their conditions and GDP which is on the level of Rwanda they are doing absoltely fucking amazing, as this guy illustrated . Men is the center of Korean socialist society, it's a socialist, cooperative economy.
Don't bother comrade. To many people out there a nation without Mcdonald's on every corner, "Drink Coke" billbaords all over the place, Beyonce's latest single playing on the radio non stop and Game of Thrones playing on tv triggers them…a lot, included "leftists"
no one's claiming it's paradise, hell, i doubt even the DPRK call themselves a paradise free of problems, point being, in order to truly criticize a reigme's legitimate issues and work out solutions for them, you have to sift through lies and false information to get an accurate picture
When you read the official protocols of the WPK congresses and meetings, they openly admit that there are problems, such as: Diversity in diet and lack of fuel.
Is 'anti-imperialism' even a thing considering the nature of the capitalist state (which all states are)
the answer is no
Why you guys will have truck with any flavor of totalitarianism is beyond me. I can recall no circumstance in which a despotic society with a violently enforced cult of personality supporting its hereditary leadership has actually been to the benefit of the people.
I'm sure you have interesting thoughts on a regular basis, comrade.
I'm sure you don't have any, that's what your totally-honest-socialist-great-leaders are for
Do you know what a Potemkin village is? There is extensive evidence of their use throughout contemporary history for a number of reasons, and strong documentary evidence that similar tactics are employed in North Korea.
Unless we are to suppose that everyone who has visited North Korea and gotten a glimpse behind the facade is actually just a propagandist put up to it by porky.
This is kinda sad in the bad way when Soviet Union was more powerful than USA and now we have this.
anarchists back at it again really adding and contributing to a discussion
prove this beyond payed out defectors making millions off a book deal talking about their sad life story™
implying that North Korea was a paradise before evil gommies moved in and made it a hell hole
Literally any and all defense of the DPRK is 'but that's all just propaganda you western imperialist sheep'
how this thread got as far as it did is a testament to how little discussion there is to have
This is what happens without De-Stalinization. Instead of a charmless but functional authoritarian state, you end up with an absolute dictatorship with meaningless Communist affectations, perpetually at the mercy of one man's bad decisions.
Thank you comrade Tank for your impassioned defense of glorious DPRK against these anti-revolutionary dissenters. I can confirm that these photos you shared are 100% representative of daily life in our beautiful Juche paradise. Our loyal tour guides ensure that tourists only take representative, honest and representative photos that display our country as it really is. Additionally we only bring tourists to the most plain and average communities and facilities.
As the earlier video I posted indicates, the tourism experience in the DPRK is not all like 'The Truman Show', particularly when we are visited to foreign journalists.
Such as? The fact that a tour visits the nicer spots isn't proof of a Potemkin village. According to that Miami Beach is a Potemkin village. Secondly, this conspiracy just defies logic. Why do you think you are so entitled that they stage entire towns just for you? Historically, such contraptions were only installed for monarchs or head of states.
Are you that dumb that you don't realize that the Juche flag poster is just sarcastic?
Well, whatever their capabilities are, they are laughing into the face of the greatest capitalist superpower and cause its president to go on nightly Twitter rants.
How dare you to blame me for ideology when you look at you and your ilks perfomance in this thread
my dude you literally pulled the logic card
Originally this was the case, but more recently - as in the Soviet Union - even regular tourists were carefully shepherded away from unseemly elements of the Communist utopia.
Whereas in Ameristan, nothing (but perhaps your own country's consular travel advice) is stopping you from driving from Miami Beach to Liberty City.
you'd have to be something other than capitalism in order to regress to it
which the ussr never was
We all know that logic is your greatest enemy my fellow anarchist. It's not like you cut off the second half of my sentences. Can you guys make a single post actually responding to my points? Just one.
As I've explained earlier , the reason why the DPRK only does guided tours at this points is because visitors have been purposely seeking out the bad spots and took photos to smear the DPRK in the 90s. Also, they are still at war. Every other country would do the same.
im so threatened by your internal thought processes
hmm, who would have more accurate more relevant and less of a reason to conflate statistics, the US, the enemy state of the DPRK who they remain technically at war with and have a strategic gain in undermining the leadership of in order to turn the international community against them, or the DPRK, who actually needed accurate statistics in order to lead a functioning a economy and state
in all honesty it's hard to say that either produces and then releases accurate details of the nation, and the nearly complete lack of third party investigation doesn't help to confirm either side, but a lot of details which the US do release can quite easily be debunked leading us to conclude that they have and are fairly likely to lie about the DPRK again
stop huffing zizek memes and actually read a book to understand what ideology is
When your country is one large 'bad spot' outside of certain city districts, you have a problem.
Yes the capitalist imperial power of America is filled with urban blight and miserable poverty. Neighborhoods of the American-Africans in particular are stricken with extreme poverty. Some like Kim Jong-Un's good friend Dennis Rodman are able to escape these hellish conditions, but not many.
If you are to visit the DPRK you will see no such misery filled ghettos on your guided tours. It simply does not exist here. Any of the residents you are allowed to speak to on your tour will confirm this.
It isn't. You can look up pictures from Wonsan, Chongjin, Tanchon, etc. they aren't. What you are saying is just not true. I could seek out bad spots in every country, even in the richest states on the planet, make selective photos and then pretend it's a hellhole.
Jesus, your babbling makes you look really bad. My argument was that there is no reason to install entire fake cities just for some random-ass tourist. You havn't adressed that point and are now squirming.
It soule look better without state ads and portraits like this plastered everywhere.
I agree, hallava better than 'murica in aesthetic.
Comrade Tank, on orders of great leader Kim Jong-Un and the Supreme People's Assembly I bestow upon you this award, the Hero of Labor. It is awarded only to the civilians which display the greatest effiency and hard work in their daily life. This is being given to you in recognition of your impassioned defense of the DPRK against Bonapartist, revisionist westerners on the website Holla Forums.
You can pick up your medal in person by coming to North Korea and announcing your intention to defect. We would be overjoyed to have you in our great socialist republic.
I like how he has a m2a1 tommy gun.
Thank you, user, for revealing the truth about the DPRK. Without you, I would have never known that every foreigner living there is actually a masterful propagandist. Nor would I know that the government constructs entire cities filled with actors to satisfy western audiences. Truly I see the light now. I especially liked your excellent use of sources and logical arguments
I rather prefer hammer and sickle and A enclosed in O plastered in inconspicuous places.
Isn't Juche some sort of korean supremacism?
Tank, I respect your commitment to seriously arguing in favor of the DPRK. You have convinced me, at the very least, that the DPRK is not a wholly evil regime. If there was such a thing as a "foot in the door" for changing someone's mind, you have done well in your arguing. Good posts, even if you are wrong.
Did you miss the link earlier where they were clearly spoofing a productive computer lab to show it off to American tourists/journalists? DPRK has clearly demonstrated a willingness to deceive foreign observers.
If defectors are to be believed (and I do believe them) there is a great deal of suffering in North Korea's rural villages and smaller cities.
Reminder that the only person who voted against Kim Jong Il succeeding Kim Il Sung was Kim Il Sung.
of course it's not a neofeudal monarchy with spartan overtones, it's a democratic people's republic - it has elections and the divine glorious leader's children have a chance in fair elections unlike in those medieval kingdoms of western saudi barbarians where princes backstab their way to the throne
It has all the cities filled with paid actors so that you don't see the million starving peasants hidden in that cave inside the mountain, cnn said so
Indeed. It is truly amazing how they have the resources necessary to maintain this Truman Show level of deception while simultaneously being so poor and unable to feed themselves.
The same way that revisionists under Khruschev could focus all of their resources into grandeur and one-upping the West while the people starved under economic liberalization.
Except there is no economic liberalization in the DPRK. Black markets emerged in the 90s as a result of the temporary collapse of central planning but the state does regain control over the economy with increased computerization.
Literally the only thing that was liberalized was that the quota for cooperative farms are now at 70% instead of 100%, they can sell the rest of the produce on local markets. Ultras are going to cry about restricted primitive 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧commodity🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 production but it really doesn't constitute a return back to capitalism.
As for the other thing, I don't think it's fair to say that songun is just for "grandeur", it's just survival mode. There is no implication that songun is going to last forever. Actually, Kim Jong-Un already announced at the 7th WKP congress a return to the byungjin (development of a socialist economy) policy of Kim Il-sung as their nuclear program is near completion. It will be completed once they have ICBMs reaching the West Coast of the USA and can fit a nuclear warhead into them. Estimates say they might be able to achieve this goal by 2025.
Kim Jong-il opposed his own succession as well. You are mistaken if you think that a succession from father to son in a socialist country was something that didn't raise eyebrows, it was very awkward when it happened. That doesn't mean it wasn't democratic. In India you have the daughter of Ghandi being president for quite a while, in the USA you had the Bush dynasty. What were they supposed to do? Kim Jong-il at that time was already a figurehead of the revolution and the Korean people loved symbols. Is it so outlandish to think people would elect the offspring of their highly respected and loved founder of the state?
But I don't think you would recongnize any of this. You are going to brush everything away as spectacle, propaganda or Potemkin villages. None of your claims can be falsified since I can't prove a negative.
So? They're not doing anything any different from what Mao, Lenin, Stalin, & Castro did.
Yeah I confused that, but I wasn't wrong: Despite not being related to Ghandi, she is still the daughter of the former Prime Minister, Jawaharlal Nehru.
bump again, because I''ve been on this board about 2 years and I have literally never seen the tankposters be proved wrong about North Korea and I want to give the others another chance. Every time they have better sources, more provable facts, more logical arguments, etc. I'm not even M-L
Triple bump. How does one visit NK?
if you're a burger citizen, its pretty much impossible at the moment. You have to get a special passport approved by the state department, which even some teachers at Pyongyang University of Science and Technology weren't able to do. If you're european you can get a visa for a fairly brief guided tour, but it might be difficult depending on what country you're in.
Burger here. Kinda figured :/
Thanks for the info though.
Well I guess this thread is dead now. Pretty solid proof that right-wing sophists like OP only really require a few sources and detailed explanations to btfo. leaving a nice webm for good measure