We are not among those communists who are out to destroy personal liberty...

those guys were ok

That moment when you realize MLs would make Marx & Engles "disappear" if they were born in their hellholes.

I really hate the phrase Marxist-Leninist. Why the fuck does Lenin get to attached his name like that? Everyone else is is just "Stalinism" or "Maoism". It's like Leninists can't just stand on their own.

Marxism-Leninism is Stalinism, and Maoism is technically Marxism-Leninism-Maoism (holy fuck how retarded do you have to be to think that sounds good). Leninism is a separate ideology.

says the man who expelled independent thinking women from his organization & moved the headquarters to avoid the influence of his political opponents

iron my shirt bitch

MLM is a different ideology

To avoid bourgeois bohemian and idpol influences so that their movement would remain a materialist, class-based ideology instead a club for affluent utopians and lifestylists.

All of you people will be rounded up and shot just like the capitalists.

Actually _all Leninists states in general with all their sub-ideologies_ would make Marx & Engles "disappear" if they were born in their hellholes.

Honestly the more I think about it the more I come to dislike Lenin. The fact is that personal freedom was a huge part of the leftist movement before he came along and one of its primary goals. Even the more authoritarian or state minded socialists looked like anarchists compared to him. He was the deviant from mainstream socialism of his day, and somehow managed to turn his shitty ideology into the dominant trend in socialist thought and just explain away the last 100 years of socialist thought that emphasized personal and political freedom. Seriously fuck Lenin.

It’s how Stalinists attempt to legetimize themselves in eyes of Marxists.

What's the source for this?


Mate, have you actually read Lenin?

Look, the thing is simple. Liberty inherently causes inequality. The pursuit of equality inherently causes loss of civil and economic liberties. That is how the world works, because the world has limited resources and not everyone can be rich.


Lenin's contribution to communism is with regards to the structure of the communist parties all around the world, aka "democratic" centralism, which is hierarchical in nature. Marxist communism was rather a romantic interpretation of what the perfect communist society should be, and contained details of why the capitalist society would lead to its own demise. There are other forms of socialism as well, like anarchist socialism which is separate from the Marxist form. Also, feminism is a form or liberalism like the broader category of socialism is, but it is not a form of socialism. Libertarianism also falls under anarchism, but it is far removed from the socialist mindset.
Marxist-Leninist is the correct term btw.

Look, someone is resorting to ad hominems because his/her argument holds no calibre.

Just admit you haven't read a book


This is clearly about Bakunin. Woodhull was in the USA so it wouldn't make much sense to flee to New York from Hague.

Don't believe their lies, while Marx's contributions were great, especially Capital, he was also a shitbag and opportunist. Given the opportunity, he would have become a Stalin in a matter of seconds.

bourg lies

To each according to their etc… Implies inequality in the sense that a pregnant woman with a family will require more resources than regular people. Its not a resource that she can hold onto and exploit others with, that's all.

Everything about this is wrong just so you know

Ok, and where does Lenin deviate from traditional Marxism?

But that's wrong though.

But I thought personal liberty was just a liberal/bourgeois/petty bourgeois buzzword…

oh look at that, another
it's like none of you faggots understand how civil war works. there is no constitution. believe it or not, political dissidents and class traitors who exist "peacefully" are going to get killed.
Anarchists did the same thing, but nobody gives a shit because they lost their war miserably and "tankies" didn't.

What lies. Stalin actually made real lasting additions to Marxism. Read "Foundations of Leninism" brainlet.

Which additions?

What's "traditional Marxism?" Lenin diverged from Marx with his mechanical materialism and denial of workers' autonomy by proclaiming the primacy of the party over the class.

In which sense was Lenin a "mechanical materialist"? What does that mean?

Denial of worker's autonomy was justified by both geopolitical constraints and the lack of the material base necessary for social ownership. Primacy of party over class is vague and I'd like you to elaborate on that, since Lenin's and Marx's methods of organization and party strategy weren't that different.

every time



missing the point entirely.
all's fair in love and war

In the sense that he elevated what he thought to be "dialectical materialism" into invariable laws of the universe.

Whether it was justifiable or not, it obviously deviates from Marx. Marx's party would have only represented the proletariat, while Lenin's vanguard was supposed to "lead," rule over them. It is a significant difference, despite both being highly objectionable.

Yes, his tendency is called Marxism-Leninism.

Good for you Lenin died before abolishing the NEP so you opportunist can pretend that Stalin didn't at all do what Lenin would have done in a similar fashion. Stalin really was cheeky by coining the term Marxism-Leninism, it gets opportunists triggered even today.

What really stands out is that Stalin was the first Marxist who actually started to carefully fledge out how a socialist system looks like, what underlying laws operate, not based on utopian visions but by observing the Soviet experience in Economic Problems of Socialism in the USSR. Up until this day, we only had polticial economy of capitalism, and Stalin was the first one to attempt to sketch it out for socialism, roughly.

Stalin's main contribution is to establish a socialist system that actually worked, and was sustainable and has been emulated by every other socialist state in some way ever since.

This isn't even a Leninist concept. Engels (and to a lesser degree Marx himself) started playing with the idea of applying those concepts to nature, and Plekhanov among the russian Marxists was the one who carried this banner. If I'm not mistaken he coined the term.

Neither was meant to "lead" the proletariat in a sense of having authority over them, and there's little difference between both. The idea that the vanguard party implies some hierarchical authority project is the sort of shit you'd expect to read on the comments section of the Guardian. The vanguard simply implies workers joining the party and becoming activists full-time, because in Russia the working conditions and the police attitude towards unions and worker's committees made the party member/unionist working man of western society a rare sight. He based the concept on the SPD socialists of the Bismarckian period in Germany who'd become professional politicians, like August Bebel, and only a colossal dipshit would say these people were trying to "lead" the masses in Blanquist or Lassallean fashion.