Incels think that the sexual "market" must be tamed

Incels think that the sexual "market" must be tamed.
Let us not get into the matter of rights, but hit straight where it hurts. Socialism/Communism will NOT solve the personal preferences of individuals over petty whining of people's lack of interest in them what the fuck else are you even complaining about if not this?
-The Genetic factor, every Incels inherent enemy: practically unknowable down to the very genes as of yet, but still.
Your own genetic makeup, face it, you may not be attractive physically. It is minuscule unconscious (mostly?) preferences that have ties to creating genetically fit offspring. Smell, shape, stature, size, skin condition etc. all provide vital information of a persons fitness. You are doomed on this if you got the shit end of the genetic lottery. This however does not provide adequate reasoning to literally subjugate the sexes over something no one plans for, or know the full results of. You will also find that the genetic fitness bill has degraded in favour of constantly developing preferences and fetishes that the world has produced so a bit of luck for you.
-The Social factor: While it can be developed on very well, you likely have a propensity (both through nature/nurture) to meekness and not drawing attention. Incels are not necessarily born through lack of social interaction. But the quality of interaction is more or less the defining factor in this. Quality conversation is very lacking for Incels, through their own social timidity and awkwardness they can not produce a conversation that goes on to their wanted results. This helps contribute to their social neuroticism. "Normies" have little want of involving themselves with obvious social meekness/neurotic individuals, and for both every interaction involves a mental dichotomy. Through the "normie" it is set up through pity, the separation of you from the socially downtrodden. For the "beta" it is through a built up idea of inheritance, and of course ressentiment. Many have already succumbed to their "inherent" fate, relying on genetics and shoddy ideas of societal development to build the resentful dichotomy of normie/beta or chad/virgin.
The problem in the build up of this mental dichotomy for the beta in contrast to the "Normie's" reaction to awkward situations/people, is that it is built on arbitrary standards of sociability. Those who have sex, and who don't. Never taking into account the diverse situation of sexual/social relations, they set up the inherent you're this or you're that; constantly building up their societal view into relation of this dichotomy. Here's one of the bullshit notions that is pulled in this relation:
This is the biggest bastardization of a civil rights movement and is a plain shift of blame to the wrong people or aspects of its ideology. Instead of developing on their own social factor (or even the factors of "normies" for they too are at fault), the blame is shifted to a lack of traditional marriage or general sexual fun. Not to mention what a bastardization their ideal of a traditional marriage is and was like, they expect that their need must be filled even at the expense of a woman's individuality. This is where the creation of equal sexual relations makes no sense, how does traditional marriage (which will include many forced situations) create sexual equality when you require willingness of both individuals for a healthy equal relationship? Do Incels seriously want to reduce sexual preference to the whim's of parents or state mandate? How is this equal in any sense of the term? They forget that there is a reason we left traditional marriage: it was obviously stifling to individual development and needs. What do Incels really want when they mean sex for all? A return to mandated marriage, even at the expense of the choices of individuals just to fit a desire. Incel's think they are a new development through sexual liberation, and this is why they turn to traditional marriage, even when traditional marriage styles produced incelibacy constantly through its massive focus on creating more powerful families.
Instead of solving this on an individual social level, they believe there's inherent societal fun at work here, creating the dichotomy; with no solution other than a return to the status quo. Instead of basing the idea of sexual preference and its development in interest, they are subsumed by the ideology of sexual liberation as the creation of their incelibacy. When even in a traditional marriage style, Incels would be the laughing stock of every man and woman around through their inability to socialize; having to rely on power and influence to be able to marry if at all.

Other urls found in this thread:

Every "beta" suggests that the sexual revolution is at fault, and that traditional marriage is a solution even though it would be the bane of every incels chance at a sexual relation. We can see that the idea of creating equal sexual relations (unachievable in traditional style) through mandate is obviously stifling to individual choice and social development, and would be the deathknell of organic relationships in favour of an idea that incels having sex will solve all of their issues; even when many of the issues are at base social and not through lack of sex.
There is no ideological veil that covers these "normies" in contrast to "betas", but is just the amalgamation of interest itself. Incel's lost due to how they socialize and from the line of interests of both sides of this coin: uninteresting conversation, creation of awkward situations, attractiveness, power dynamics of social groups.
What can we do but try to support Incel's social liberation from themselves and others in every way? Support groups, counseling, education about the socially awkward and for the socially awkward, methodology towards creating meaningful relationships. We can not just change the interest of millions of people without ramming ideology so far down their throat they'll be shitting traditional social structures. Education will not solve everything nor will it give everyone a chance, but is practically the only step we can make towards stifling a growing social problem without destroying every sense of individual choice.

Should we mandate who people can sleep with? No, of course not. However, I don't think it's true that we can literally not do anything to solve the problem.

In another topic one user, or possibly me, I dunno, suggested that under socialism we could develop some kind of worldwide personality matrix that could understand each person on a deep level and suggest partners accordingly. What makes this more effective than current online dating is that distance wouldn't be a factor, you could access matches from all over the (socialist) world and you could travel to meet them for free. If you decided you liked each other it would be no problem to have housing and jobs reassigned. This, combined with social change, would in my mind severely limit the loneliness problem.

Under communism things will be advanced enough that we have really good VR and/or robot gfs, so this is moot. Genetic duds can fuck the means of production.

Man, I agree with most of of your post but I hope you're aware "education" is every liberals go-to to actually avoid facing a problem. It's simply a way to "address" a problem and shift the blame. We're radicals. A radical is literally someone who wants change from the roots

Ask any liberal.
Educate kids that we're all one big family
Educate the poor on opportunities and create scholarships for trade school
teach kids drugs are bad

and the list goes on. I'm not saying your idea has no merit but if you want to actually solve the "incel issue" this leaves a whole lot to be desired

How are all those things you said not solvable through education and its ideological offspring? Racism we can easily use the basis of little scientific foundation for our racial distinctions. Education about the ramifications of institutional racism around the world, etc.
Poverty of course is a different beast altogether as we know and wholly retains an institutional factor. Education will not be the be all end all for something so intensely settled as poverty.
Drugs abuse is highly correlated with poverty. Education will not really solve this as years of it has shown; people will still do drugs even if they know its bad. But you must reduce the conditions that lead to such abusive behaviour as drug addiction which is definitely based in the conditions of poverty.

Education is one step, but context is needed for each diverse situation. Laws/reforms and programs can be enacted to help support these things.
Yeah, I know the "education" thing is a meme for libs, but it is the most integral part to our development, no?

Oh, silly user.

incels are a real problem, i know of the meme and may even be critiquing some user's ironic posts but people actually believe this kind of shit over at /r9k/ and Holla Forums.

All I'm saying is that it isn't lack of education that caused these people. I believe the root of it is general alienation from others and from the community. A lack of support structures and the like. Most incels don't even have friends at all.

Maybe if you repair these communities and public spaces this problem will solve itself?

why must we have several of these threads at once?

the only problem they should bring up is yojng men not getting laid because of their social class. this is probably the only semi-marxist argument available to the incels, which theyll never make.

Of course, I did mention this as a social alienation briefly, and it could be solved with massive overhauls of societal intercourse. I was more focusing on how to respond to the beta types now; having dug themselves into their own hole refusing to get the fuck out or at least TRY to fix their own social issues. It's a massive spiral of negative trends that enforce each other, with an individual and societal basis. I'm also more critiquing the "Holla Forumsyp" interpretation of how to respond to the growing incel trend.

Lower class people have more sex across the board

if thats true, then there isnt a problem for socialists. Not all competition is bad autists

there's seriously 4 fucking read bordiga threads ON THE SAME PAGE right now btw



This. tl;dr your giant post for me op

(retard solution) state issued partners
(normalfag solution) leave things alone and let material conditions balance things out a bit
(genius solution - me) abolition of sex and all relationships closer than 'best friend'

Aw dang it was just an accident!

incels are fucking retarded and I correlate them to a return to traditionalist values due to their "critique" of the sexual revolution, the chad/virgin dichotomy fuels this fire as the structure of the world around them, constantly oppressed by Chads monopoly on sex. the incel fire is fuel for Holla Forumsyp intake to set in stone these traditionalist values with the fascist ethic.

I'd personally prefer we try to convert them, and just promise them robot waifus and artificial wombs, but hey, you do you. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

They are a result of politics, but it's not political as an ideology, it's misogynist nonsense that would alienate women more than they already are by enslaving them to whomever the government chooses. Debating reactionaries is fine but when a specific group of people make up a decent percentage of the posts on the board, seep into unrelated threads, derail, and ruin threads, they should be held more under control.

But synthesizing incel ideology and radical left politics is more than just converting people, it converts specifically to the synthesis and inevitably fails to build up the left.

Sweet, finally got some free time, can't wait to check out /leftyp-

We /could/ try not outright calling them losers and directly needling their insecurities, at the very least, no?

Nobody ever decided to be friends with someone because that person was a massive dick to them.

But you misunderstand what I am saying. From a pragmatic standpoint, what does a small reactionary minority contribute to leftist discussion when their leftism doesn't replace the reactionary ideology but instead merges with it?

You're implying as though these reactionaries can not be subsumed by our ideology. Reform is possible, and every person counts.
t. ex Holla Forumsyp incel

I don't know ask any leftist party really. Incidentally they are all small minorities compared to the other political forces. I guess leftism is a lost cause.
Go have fun on r/socialism if this is how you think.

Your communism sounds like capitalism in 5 years.


You're making a huge mistake if you think this is a minor issue in the West. We're rapidly catching up with Japan with the "herbivore male" phenomenon. If you don't propose a solution for them, how do you expect them to support anything other than fascism? From the time I was ~11 all the way up until I was 17 where I finally got laid, every waking moment was tinged in one way or another with the desire for sex. You know what I'd probably be today, had I never gotten hole access? I'd be a bitter, hateful, frogposting Holla Forumsyp. Failing to fulfill your biological purpose or at least tricking your brain into thinking you're doing so ruins you and takes over your life. We need to help them, not scorn them.

left incel checking in
dear lord I can't red all that


how goes the battle with not really caring about sexual needs anymore

nope, only right-incels

find you nearest lonely boy and set him up on date or offer to be his wingman
If he's shitty find him a shitty woman

If you have no interest in doing any of this at least stand on the side of left-incels pls, we are not as bad as you think


but we don't really want robot women, we want the same thing any other hetero man wants

left-incels are far and few, the ideology of incels everywhere involves a subjugation of women to their desires.
as a left-incel what do you propose we do to solve this growing problem, and take out the reactionary pieces that grows on incels?

sexual egalitarianism and a sense of male/female agency are not necessarily incompatible
beside crude social-darwnian sexual impulses, systems larger than individuals have and always will control sexual attraction (media etc), no one has free will, putting other people behind the drivers seat in prominent institutions like the press and the media and government can dramatically change how the current sexual preferences of millions if not billions of people.are determined

no one is fundamentally entitled to anything. Which doesn't mean entitlements are fundamentally bad, entitlements should be consensus based and socially constructed.
there is an equally shitty man for every shitty woman, no gender is more important or better than the other in a society of material abundance

1 outsource daddy role to state
2 androgynize population
3. make childraising less expensive
4. have men proposition women less

5 (experimental) lifelong polyandry, makes men scarce and therefore valuable

If the choice was between some Westworld-tier robotics, and being alone, I assume you would choose the former. The dirty "secret" is that under socialism/communism, women would have even less of a reason to voluntarily associate with you, since we would presumably abolish polygamy laws, and you wouldn't be able to offset your genetics with material wealth, and slavery is absolutely out of the question. This leaves us with robot waifus in the interim, and gene therapy to ensure every baby is healthy and grows into an attractive adult for a truly egalitarian society.

The first incel forum were a bunch of liberal women
Meet any IRL incels and they are most likely run of the mill liberals
Neither Sodini nor Rodger were right-wing

The largest unnofficial forum of virgins and incels: social is just a buncha liberals and leftiies

But yea /r/incels was rightist

We're not even close to that happening so I'm not interested. Plus I view women as humans, as much as you don't believe that.

t. right-socialist

left means non-hierachy, if you are going to use meritocratic socialism to mean leftism, you have a piss poor understanding of the deepest problem with wealth inequality in the first place: social inequality

this is something populists get, but right-socialists don't want to admit. Meritocracy sucks. It ascribes human value to how much schooling or labour one does. Just like Democrats in the USA.


I'm convinced you're baiting me
how do things like
Go together whatsoever?
Both your posts condone massive reeducation/reform of peoples social lives, forcing people out of their own interest into an egalitarian right. You also can't really call sexual impulses socially Darwinian, when they are products of biological evolution itself. Crude maybe, but are you really going to be able to reform people into the idea that "everyone deserves someone by right." Are you saying that due to sexual abundance we should reach this sort of right?

Egalitarianism IS leftism. Meritocracy, as a complete system, IS a form of rightism.
But to address your point, there are already people/things/ideas in the drivers seat and there always will be

"beside crude social-darwnian sexual impulses, systems larger than individuals have and always will control sexual attraction (media etc), no one has free will, putting other people behind the drivers seat in prominent institutions like the press and the media and government can dramatically change how the current sexual preferences of millions if not billions of people.are determined"

*base* sexual impulses are like you said crude. They are also ugly and tremendously inegalitarian. Society usually overrides it to some degree and our sexual impulses will adjust to meet the extremely different environment of material abundance. Because our current base sexual impulses are based on enviornment of material scarcity.

Close, that no one is better than any other person

No. Social consensus makes rights.

I really don't think you do.

You can't create social equality without genetic equality. This is something you idealists just don't understand. After material conditions are equalized, are you seriously arguing that brian peppers is going to have the same social capital as john hamm? Gene therapy is a must.

Sage incel threads.
Hide incel threads.
Report incel threads.

EVerything you know about lonely men is from your experience on /r/incels, go out more, or better yet wait until you go on a decade plus stay of lonliness involluntarily and watch yourself not turn into an objectifying mosnster

I'm all for egalitarianism I've never said otherwise, but we're talking extending egalitarianism to sexual interactions, in that people deserve a partner by right. What I'm saying is you're destroying a general human interest backed by HOOMAN NAHTUR of all things. With people being able to choose who they want to be with for their lives. Are you telling me that this is bad and we need to reform the sexual lives of individuals? Can you provide any sort of evidence that this choosing of one's mate is bad? What exactly are you suggesting we do to create sexual equality that doesn't end up destroying individual liberty?

Which is ironic, because the incessant need to put other people down over perceived inferiority is a lot of the time a sign of insecurity

No, but good response. The thing is that we will operate under a false assumption. We already operate under false assumptions that are good for humanity: the golden rule (which isn't really true, but helpful nonetheless), the idea that we have free will (which isn't really true, but helpful nonetheless), etc etc

living under false beliefs makes us behave a certain way.
Now that doesn't mean we behave like SJWs and talk as if those false beliefs are true even among close peers, but as a society we have, do, and always will operate under false beliefs to keep us from going insane and to keep society healthy

Nothing I said said people won't be able to choose who they want to live with. I just pointed out that our desires are already socially engineered, and always necessarily will be because we don't have free will. So let's change who is in the drivers seat

So you literally have nothing to solve the growing problem, except for saying that we're totally consumed by the what the powers that be has designated for us and that needs to be different and that we need to change it but we can't because we don't have free will. I'm being absolutely enlightened. I thought you were proposing actual egalitarianism on sexuality but you were just bullshitting me this whole time on fixing this fucking problem except for some hot takes that would destroy individual liberty just so people could get their cummies.

I've never been on /r/incels.
I would suggest you take your own advice, because you can improve your situation for the time being. I doubt you're disgusting enough that you can't even find a 1/10 to be your companion.
Personally I'd eat a bullet before I let that happen.
You wouldn't be that way if you weren't chasing unobtainable pussy.

I assume you mean taking the liberal "body positive" movement to the extreme via massive propaganda/brainwashing efforts. That's sheer insanity.

I said watch yourself *not* turn into an objectifying monster

For men, unless you are a model, looks aren't that important. All my incel friends keep obsessing about looks, it's so dumb.

you forgot your don't tread on me flag

shiiiet man i became a commie so i could shoot some porkies, where they at

Really isn't that hard, I'm 31 live with my parents of course I am single, and have always been. Girls find something revolting about me, unlike those on the robots I have learned to accept it. I found 4chan when I was 19, I never really had a chance.

I know what you wrote, but what you say in every incel thread tells me that you resent the shit out of women instead of valuing them as an equal.
Physical Attractiveness (somewhat subjective) > Material Wealth >>>>>>>> Personality. As I said, we can (and should) remove material wealth from the equation, but the only workable solution I see is tackling genetic inequality from a technological perspective. We don't need insane shit like "androgynizing the population" or "lifelong polyandry" or "body positive propaganda".

But are you actually happy?

Don't you mean
Physical Attractiveness (somewhat subjective) < Material Wealth < Personality
with the greater than signs the right way?

Look, being rejected by half the population would make *anyone* either bitter at themselves society or both. /r/incels is bitter at women. MRA incels at society. Female incels at themsleves. /r/foreveralone incels at themselves.

The big difference is whether they end up comitting suicide or going on a murder-suicide. The thing is thought that the VAASST majority of incels ultimately blame themselves and that's why suicide is the more common route.

ALso and this is important. Blaming someone for not getting girls because of any small amount of emotional coldness or bitterness that arose from over a decade of being perfectly ok with women and ourselves but yet not finding a partner is just… I dunno… it's just a way not to deal with anything

You can ignore I said that, I just find it an amusing idea

night ya'll

Basically I feel that there is no way I can afford someone that I would be happy with and they happy with me. I guess I could get a gf, but she would have to be the most desperate slob I could find. I'd rather not waste her time. I'm not physically disgusting, I'm 6'2" and maybe a 6.5/10 if I am being honest.

Well, yeah. For the most part, women date up, and men date down, and you're not willing to date the 3-4/10 that would be "in your league". But you didn't answer my question. You said it was easy living the way you do, but are you actually happy? You don't sound very happy at all, you sound beaten down and resigned to your lifestyle.