So corporate liberals are constantly talking about "Russia hacked our election guys, XD!" And it's becoming a way to deny progressive ideas. I can believe that there was lots of misconduct but now everything that's anti-Hillary is now Russia.
How do I argue against this shit? When arguing I used WikiLeaks as a source and was told "WikiLeaks is Russian propaganda!" Everything that isn't WaPo or NYT is now "Russia!"
tbh WikiLeaks are sort of Putin shills, so I would argue it's legitimate to dismiss them regarding this issue.
Remind them that the CIA is an agency literally founded on deception and lied about WMDs in Iraq, and then show them the Veteran Intelligence Professionals for Sanity analysis put together by Bill Binney making a strong, conclusive argument that the DNC leaks were leaks and the speed at which they were retrieved from a central server means they could not possibly have been obtained by a trans-Atlantic hack.
Bill Binney, of course, being one of the more notable whistleblowers before Snowden to blow the whistle on the NSA's mass surveillance program and illegal spying on civilians. Like all whistleblowers, he was prosecuted by the Obama administration over flimsy premises in the Espionage Act.
Oh you would? Don't keep up in suspense user, provide your argument.
Herp, disregard that. Had him confused with Thomas Drake. Binney was a whistleblower during the Bush administration.
The bourg-media will never talk about real issues, you know that right. Even my liberal friends are sick of it. Other than the weather, I never watch the news anymore
I'd point out that even if the Russian hacking thing is true, all they did was reveal the truth.
Also, point out that Hillary and the DNC also got dirt on Trump from the Russians.
Though, for the people really into the Russian thing, I don't think you can convince them because it isn't rational, it's a coping mechanism. The election of Trump completely debunks both liberal centrist politics and the Democrat variant of civic nationalism. The way to get around this is by saying that the election was fraudulent, the result of outside influence.
Also, the typical response of any bourgeois state to political crisis (and in many ways the person of Trump is a barely contained political crisis) is to double down on nationalist rhatoric, hence all the saber rattling. Naturally, in a time like this, the whole establishment is calling for us to stand strong against the Great Enemy, but unfortunately for them, they can't agree on just who the Great Enemy is. For the libs, it's Russia.
It's not, see
There was no hack.
What I'm getting at is that they're wrong both ways.
You can say that there was no hack, but the knee jerk response is that this is Russian propaganda. I think a better way to get to them, if you can get to them at all, is to entertain their claim, but point out that it still doesn't change anything.
In 2012, WikiLeaks was low on money and that's when Assange started appearing in his own show on Russia Today. In 2015, they claimed the Panama Papers, which involved Russian interests, were a hoax bankrolled by Soros. In 2016, they turned down a cache of compromising Russian government files for no serious reason. In fact, they rarely ever leak anything about Russia, a country in which corrupt oligarchs run the show and nosy journalists mysteriously die on an occasional basis.
WikiLeaks has done transparency a great service in the past but it's grown untrustworthy and incompetent in the last few years. The Intercept is a much better source for leaked documents today.
You just need to fortify your bodies with the right products, fellow leftists: infowarsshop.com/
If true, this might be quite damning towards their claim to 100% accuracy. I suspect it isn't quite true though and you're adding your own interpretation to a statement. Do you have a source?
Please, Glenn Greenwald is a scion in a sea of filth. The Intercept is hiring hacks left and right to write for them now, from that utter fabricator and charlatan from Gawker Sam Biddle to everyone's favorite faux black liberal idpoler Shaun King. Wikileaks released some extremely insightful documents on CIA tools just this year.
Exactly, even in the fantasyland shitlibs are trying to inhabit, they should be THANKING the Russian Hackrz on Steroidz for DOING THE DOJ'S JOB and revealing CRIMINAL ACTIVITY by Clinton.
Aside from the leak though, keep in mind that a lot of shitlibs imagine le Russian hackers not to have just stolen/forged/whatever documents from Clinton, but they think Russia actually HACKED VOTING MACHINES nationwide to directly alter the results!
We should capitalize on this though. Election fraud is happening with plenty of evidence, and you don't need to do it from Russia. Ask them if they think 15-year-old electronic machines with no paper trail and massive numbers of vulnerabilities should be an acceptable part of our election infrastructure.
Can you help with all the terminology in this tweet? It doesn't even seem to be false. Seems like they're referring to some sort of side analysis of the Panama Papers (instead of the leaks themselves as you claimed) funded by Soros' Open Society Foundation.
It started out as a way to subvert and eventually overthrow an elected president. I would bet said president is allowing them enough rope to hang themselves. This will turn into Uranium One and jail time. It doesn't really have much to do with leftist ideology, rather those who were willing to break laws to profit themselves or their masters.
Ah yes, it seems to be accurate indeed. Go to occrp.org/en and scroll to the bottom.
Jail time? For the ruling class? My little user can't be this naive. Trump has been friends with the Clintons for ages, the election theatrics were exactly that.
Well, I am not so naive to think Trump's chances of getting re-elected will be dependent on whether or not he locks someone up. He might not want to, but he will have to. Lots of rats fleeing right now, we are only at year one.
They're clearly talking about some dogshit OCCRP (Which IS funded by Soros) report, not the panama papers. Nowhere in your "source" do they claim the panama papers were a hoax.
Reminder that Reagan/Bush went through something like a dozen whole cabinets due to criminal investigations and infighting, yet still had a 3-term winning streak Clinton only broke because of the spoiler-effect from Perot.
And? Plenty of voices are on RT not because they love Russia but because the MSM wouldn't ever give them a platform. Do you also think Abby Martin is a Russian troll? This isn't far-fetched, considering that the Panama Papers where published by the Süddeutsche, an establishment magazine, and only targeted geopolitical enemies of NATO. What a coincidence!
The demonization of RT as some sort of Putin psyp is exceptionally rich, considering the (largely deserved, IMHO) fairness and praise heaped on Al Jazeera by these exact same people, in spite of the fact that while Russia is merely a corrupt democratic republic, Qatar is literally a theocratic feudal absolute emirate right out of the dark ages.
Mate, the UK PM is saying Russia is interfering in our elections and referendums too: if Corbyn wins I swear down people are going to shout "RUSSIAN PLANT".
Calling it now, referendums will soon be abolished because "the peons are to easily influenced by Russia." It's already happening here in the Netherlands.
Russia is the neoliberals version of "the jews did it"! They cant comprehend the idea that people dont like them and that they faild hard and people voted them out. Must be some nefarious Slavic plot. This is want they want so bad, they want the cold war to exist again, back when if you questioned them they could just blame the damn commies. But they dont exist anymore. So when the banks fail the proles get riled up and want to kill you. They want a second cold war so they can just pass the blame to the mysterious alien entity from the east. Also if you question them you must be an agent!
The capitalists needed the soviet union like the batman needs the joker.
Ever since the end of the cold war, everything went to shit, yeah, they won, but everything went to shit, the economy, culture, society. Its all stagnate. People needed that hope of a different path, the capitalists need an enemy to distract from their incompetence.
Do you really think we would have gone to the moon if it weren't for the soviet union?
The people in charge would have been glad to continue just making refrigerators that break down every 5 years.
Islam is not a good enemy. Compared to the soviets they are annoying gnats.
fuck, even back then you could be all "hey muslims if you dont want your country to become communist you have to team up with us"
In order to reinvigorate humanity, reality, the world, hope, we need another communist super power, i mean legit. None of this dengist china crap
this happens after every victory, the purpose that held everyone together is gone. the purges start. the meaning for fighting is gone. The meaning for existence is gone, People start fucking up. And there is no one to blame. They won the cold war. There is no enemy to blame, cant blame Muslims, according to them we have tolerate Islam. Cant blame commies, they dead. When they fail its them on the funeral pyre. A mystical nazi named Miguel serrano once said that the best thing the nazis ever did was lose. Because the myth of what they might have been lives on in the heart of every nazi. While the failures of the victors accumulate. Capitalism needs a real threat, an ideological and economical rival. People need hope of a possible future that isnt some Stagnate capitalist dystopia. The world united on two sides. Pushing each other to greatness. The people who yearn for something that isnt capitalism need that just as much as the capitalist needed an enemy.
The thing is referenda in the UK are quite rare: we've only ever had nationally in our history and those were two EU ones.
Don't forget the Le Pen debacle in France, everything was RUSSIA RUSSIA RUSSIA during the campaign including the harmless Macron leaks
more like VENZUELA,VENZUELA,RUSSIA?
But that's the real problem in their mind. They don't actually care about the integrity of the voting process, or they would be screaming louder about the 2016 Democratic primary.
Check out the responses to his tweets if you ever feel like raging.
the cold war kept the west united against an outside enemy, black lives matter? if the soviet were around just call them soviet agents. White power?, look, its great and all, but we have to team up with these black guys or the commies will take over. Economy crashes? Time to start a good old proxy war against the red menace. Critical of capitalism? Thats commie talk friendsky. Super into Islam and want to blow up the west? Well, i guess you want to be taken over by those godless commie devils.
And what is modern russia, A capitalist state i guess, Yeah putins been in power for a long time. So has angela merkel.
They are mad because they cant control russia like they do western europe. Western europe is kept under americas heel, incapable of rising up and being a threat.
Putins russia can just bomb the shit out of your islamist proxies in syria and not give a fuck.
There is no evidence of a hack, no votes changed, even if they did the info released just proves how corrupt the DNC is, thanks ivan.
I dont know, maybe people are tired of a party that bailed at the banks, outsourced jobs, expanded the private prison program, slashed social programs, supported endless war in the middle east, is controlled by the donor class….
nah it was the damn russkies!
80's nostalgia is so strong, we need it, everyone needs it, everyone needs communism again.
Yeah! Russians bomb the shit out of those fake Syrian rebels and fake isis. Remember how the fake cosmetic campaign against isis did nothing while a few bombs from russia rekt them completely? The bourgeois Jews cannot control Russia.
Pol, you are just as bad and stupid as the neoliberals are
It's not really about the democratic or republican party per se, more about 'the Establishment' and the status quo. A significant part of Americans will vote for the candidate that represents change - first in Obama and now in Trump.
America winning the cold war wasnt the final victory of liberal capitalism and the end of history like franky fuckyourmama would have you believe. It was capitalism's swan song. Post great rescission, post bank bail out, post cold war, the capitalists are realizing they need an outside enemy that unites everyone, something they can pass blame on. Without it they are the ones who get tarred and feathered. The proles might actually start demanding better wages or some shit. America is disunited, tribal, at each others throats, voting for things the capitalist dont want them to vote for, like trump and brexit.
I predict, either a new enemy entity shall be conjured up, or these are the final years of the neoliberal era and a new age is beginning. A much more cyberpunk facist dystopia age
The modern left's insistence on starting World War 3: This Time With Nukes for no fucking reason is downright baffling. You should all be ashamed for allowing this to propagate.
It's not us you dumbass.
Julian Assange himself said leaks came from a DNC insider. How about paying more attention to primary sources?
the fuck are you talking about you retard
It’s far more likely that Wikileaks is an Israeli Operation but no one wants to talk about that. Think about it logically, Israel has the most aggressive spy network in the US. They wouldn’t even have to hack anything they would just ask their loyal Zionist lapdogs in the US and BOOM — they’d have the information.
Israel also wanted Trump to get elected because the democrats under Obama were less slavishly obsessed with their interests plus Trump will be the kind of guy to crack protestors heads when the next Zionist-inspired War in the Middle East starts sending bodies home to small towns near you.
Obama was lukewarm-to-hostile towards settlement building, the moment Trump was elected the settlement project went ahead full-steam again
we know we want a WW3, but we don't know the enemy yet
dialectics sure are weird
Ehh, I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying that none of the mainstream libs are really out there defending protestors these days, and even the little bit of support they get goes under reported. Ex. I think Bernie tweeted about Standing Rock, but it wasn't like he went out into the front lines for them. I think Jill Stein did, but who's going to cover that? No, the head cracking will continue under Blue or Red team, for it is profitable, and so it shall be.
Ya it’ll continue either way but with the blue team doing it it shows every worker exactly where they stand, it’s harder to justify. People started leaning further left under Obama because once they got the Left alternative the establishment was selling they realized it wasn’t great at all.
Now the corporate libs are cutting off most of their ties with even the soc dem Left to focus on an opposition to Trump which is mainly focused on him as a person and not his policies. I won’t expect the #resistance to come out in the streets when the War on Iran begins for instance. Too much wrongthink cod them to handle.
The average leftist today thinks that anyone who disagrees with him is a Russian spy and a nazi.