What does Holla Forums get right about the world? Are there legions of rape foo-gis coming to destroy western society? Are the Jews controlling the media by showing two guys kiss on tv? Has Hollywood corrupted the youth and turned them into God-hating, abortion having degenerates?
What does Holla Forums get right?
Other urls found in this thread:
imdb.com
8ch.net
8ch.net
neoabsolutism.wordpress.com
openrevolt.info
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
twitter.com
Fucking nothing.
But what about the Jews in Hollywood, man? They made those holocaust movies where the Nazis are shown to be bad people ;_;
The blackpilled ones are right about them never getting laid.
Nothing, the few things they’re supposedly right about are not original ideas.
imdb.com
Man, what do you know? That's just Jewy propaganda
Holla Forums and the Right in general, along with the pseudo-left (left-identitarians) live in a magical world where conflicts are over arbitrary categories not based on material conditions. Consequently, their win conditions are immaterial. You'll notice that a right-winger rarely focuses on economics—you can get him to support virtually any economic position as long as the ones shilling for it are the same race and use jingoistic rhetoric. Recall how Trump supporters defended government-run universal health care in the last Republican primaries when Trump advocated for it along the same terms as previous neoliberal administrations.
Now the obvious exception to this is that class of right-wingers—bankers, merchants, executives, men of property and high privilege—who are totally materialistic in their thinking, because it is in their self-interest to have right-wing parties that can challenge those who wish to take away their power and property (the Left). So people like the Mercers, who heavily fund Breitbart and the alt-right, the Koch brothers with mainstream Republicans, etc, don't actually care about all of this identitarian nonsense. But they recognize its importance in maintaining false consciousness.
kill your self
Which is obviously wrong because conflicts only happen when they fit into my neatly organized non-arbitrary conceptions.
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Proof it.
I don't want to get into this autistic debate again since we just had a thread about it two days ago, but there is one thing they have right. If you look at the data it from a dispassionate point of view you will eventually come to agree.
Traps are gay
How dare you sir, traps are in fact not gay.
Yes they're right.
Just take a look at this: 8ch.net
How will Holla Forums ever recover?
Holla Forums is right about what they call "cultural marxism" which is actually just cultural capitalism in reality.
They're right about mass immigration, but most don't understand that the underlying justification for it is porky bringing in cheap labour. Why do you think all the people arguing for new waves of immigration talk about it's $$$economic benefits$$$?
This class you speak of, Bankers & executives are disproportionately neoliberal which I guess you could consider "right wing" but the fact of the matter is that corporate institutional power is in the hands of the nu-left, which is even more of a threat to actual scientific socialism than an idiot republican could ever be.
This whole thing is just further confirmation that fascism is the result of a particular sexual psychopathology. Look at how obsessed they are with black dick, trannies, and cuckolding.
Thats alunya isnt it
Interesting take, honestly.
I mean, there's /cuteboys/ where all the gay and bi guys go, and there is a thread about being gay and right wing, which doesn't surprise me.
This tbh. Just look at how many replies the .webm got. It's downright tragicomic.
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Unfortunately, you actually seem to be absolutely right. Fuck.
>>>/cuteboys/360580
No, it's just you filthy faggots want to spread your fun publicly, instead of keeping it to your nasty selves.
What would Stalin do? (pic related)
Islamists are fascist and the left would do well to go out of our way to attack them the same way we would any other fascist movement. Saudi Arabia and similar states are pretty much cancerous.
Jews are in a lot of corporate positions of power due to nepotism– and it's a perfect display of how capitalism is in no way meritocratic. There are more specific explanations for this (history of the court Jews, usury, etc.) but I'd rather not get into that at the moment. Israel has a disproportionately influential lobby over the US government and it shows with how much foreign aid we give them, though Holla Forums has turned a blind eye to this a lot lately because of Daddy Trump.
The proles should be armed for the foreseeable future, even under socialism.
I can't seem to think of much else off the top of my head. I would mention Assad but they seem to be cucking out over that too.
kek
I haven't seen proof that person is actually the Holla Forums board owner tho, no one seems to have any
Holla Forums is wrong about height being hereditary. Swedes may taller than Han Chinese but what about environmental factors?
With significant outliers like Yao Ming, clearly any correlation wouldn't be that strong anyway. Holla Forumsyps are obviously just insecure lanklets trying to justify their feelings of supierority.
Additionally, as Kraut & Tea pointed out, they have yet to demonstrate specific physiological mechanisms, which would be necessary to reach their conclusion. Why should we believe adoption studies when no one can point to the specific cellular mechanisms that would cause genes to impact height?
>>>/cuteboys/360580
How do you explain this then? These are right-wingers who aren't exactly ``keeping it to themselves´´
See what I mean?
I mean you're not wrong about the Islamists being fascists, it surprises me people aren't willing to fight them as well.
Whatever you say, shortbro
(Am actually short myself ;_:)
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I am an orthodox commie. As long as you fags keep it unseen, I don't give a fuck. They're discussing their faggotry in an anonymous board.
Fags threaten the family structure which is the core of society.
Most of the what little fagposting that occurs here is Holla Forums falseflagging, you know that right?
Why can't Holla Forums ever stop talking about Holla Forums
Move along. Holla Forums is just trolling itself into spiraling schizophrenia.
I am not talking about Holla Forums nor do I care about them. I am talking about how communism has gone from the ideology of the working family to that of disgusting filthy sexual deviants who seek to spread their filth through all of society. Fags, trannies, and such filth should be kept out of the public eye or gulaged.
Communism has also gone from a strong, manly, powerful ideology to that of weak beta low-t soyboys frightened by any display of strength. Every leftist circle today is filled with disgusting displays.
Pic related should be what people think of when they think of communism, not some mentally ill tranny who cut his dick off and pretends to be a woman.
It is difficult to know what's exactly inside the heads of those in power, but we can reason about their motives by examining their behavior.
The easiest way to do this is to look at the narratives pushed in the media, which is exclusively owned by the propertied class. On any particular issue, there is an initial organic response and then a diversion.
- The TEA party came to prominence over opposition to the corporate bailouts of 2009. But then the Koch brothers et al directed it into a heavily identitarian movement—the kind that ultimately supported Trump. This movement that initially attacked corporate welfare for America's fiscal problems has been successfully diverted to scrutinizing immigrants and welfare "sponges" (implicitly black people) who contribute a fraction to the problem.
- The Occupy Wallstreet movement was subverted by media narratives to direct income inequality to issues of race, and wage inequality away from CEO-worker to man-woman.
These are just two examples, and there are many more I can think of.
Well, every time they break out a straw leftist, I tend to think "this, but unironically…"
Their slightly correct about racial differences in ĮQ, but ĮQ it’s self isn’t a “smartness” test. Everything else is purity spiral delusional bullshit.
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Most of us "nazis" would love socialized healthcare. But so what? You didn't know that? We just believe it can only work in a high trust nation not filled with violent shitskins. USA has too many low i.q destructive shitskins for socialized healthcare to work unless we genocide them all.
you sound pretty cucked by idpol bucko
This.
They are correct that there are a large amount of jews in hollywood and banking
The majority of /cuteboys/ are Nazis which is very strange. That’s like a community of heroin addicts that are pro-drug war. If you took lewd pictures of your self in girls clothes in 1942 Poland, you’d be at least beaten to hell, and at most sent to a death camp.
prob because its a board on 8ch and 8ch is full of dumb nazis
same with that monster girl board, monster girls are literally racem.ixing and generally preach tolerance of different sorts of people and yet the board is full of nazis
Stay spooked cuckmeister
that webm is so hot
t. $$$id/pol/$$$
"Aesthetisation" of politics was and is literally everything. Starting with "workers of the world, unite!" and the poetic and inspiring vision which one imagines when we hear this phrase, of the whole of the working class of the world banding together to destroy the dictatorship of the bourgeoise. Pic related.
What have I said that is idpol?
They're just being contrarian since most of gays are "liberal"
use of "mental illness" to dismiss things you don't understand
unjustifiable hatred of working class people who happen to be gay/trans/whatever
use of meaningless jargon like "manliness"
pure idpol
Historical materialism explains that. Read Bordiga and Marx on feudal-era economy.
This.
Is it bad I unironically use the term “Nani”, and “sugoi” when speaking to my baby boomer parents?
Only guy who gets it.
News flash Einstein, “mental illness” isn’t really something you can quantify outside of capitalist medical industrial complex. So there is a HIGH possibility you may in fact be in a beholden state to phantoms.
no
sloganeering and propaganda is not aesthetisation of politics
your obsession with the 'public gay' is though
Mostly disgust. I don't get your point?
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was this Holla Forums's BO? 8ch.net
It could just be self-interest, if there are more whites and less africans their chances of getting HIV from hedonistic sex is lowered.
i was mocking the common arguments against r&i.q
Are you ready to give proof that this person is BO? I've been asking for months. Where did that original image of this person even come from? Where are proofs? That's all I'm asking for.
Actually they don't. It's a board for nothing more than fantasies about 3D traps. Every man on that board is basically straight because they like female attributes and will fuck anything feminine, regardless of whether it has a dick because the dick doesn't concern them. They're actually violently homophobic when it comes down to being REALLY gay, and not just prison-gay for chicks with dicks.
The only board I've found that is remotely gay-friendly is /fur/, mostly because of the (untrue) meme that furries are all gay makes most people there attempt to conform. But there are still many anti-gay posters, unchecked because moderating is lazy and mostly takes its cues from Holla Forums, anyway.
Im pretty sure you get banned because no spamming is the first fucking rule plus this is a SFW board. Your proof is circular logic.
Or maybe you got banned because you were being autistic
Was this before or after the 300th time you posted it?
I mean I go on /cuteboys/ and I'm bi.
How did you come to the conclusion every man on there is straight?
I hope you realize this means you're actually straight, and will settle down and get married to a nice girl when you get tired of the bigotry and want a normal family. Every bisexual does.
Because they all like females except with the added fetish-factor of it being a "trap", and because of all the homophobia.
I mean I appreciate the optimism but I don't think that's happening.
Not really, some of them like traps, others just want a regular masculine guy, it happens.
I'm also bi and I've been with my bf for four years.
Did you get cheated on by a bi ex or something?
Not on /cuteboys/ they don't. It kinda goes against the entire point of the board.
Do you think if a black man could one day in his 30's transform into a white person, and never be bothered by racism ever again, he wouldn't do it?
Except they do, I've seen threads about it.
That's not what being right means, their understanding of those issues is what makes them wrong
C'mon dude. There are cuteboys themselves who want to meet a manly dude. You can't be unaware of this.
Never in the few years I was there. Then again, I haven't been there in about six months since I was banned for pointing out the hypocrisy of being pro-Holla Forums and gay, even just prison-gay. Maybe it's different now.
But I seriously fucking doubt it.
Well it does exist.
I mean I don't get the cutepol thing either, but what can ya do?
I don't really consider them gay, either, because most of the actual "cuteboys" are trannies who consider themselves girls, even if they don't want to cut off their dick.
I've never seen someone notruescotsman about being gay lmao.
Seriously how is your sex life dude?
I've never seen a man and his wife (who is actually a man in disguise) get harassed or assaulted out on the street, either.
There are lots of trannychasers on /cuteboys/, but that's not the real audience.
It was a pre-Jim gay thinly-veiled pedo and ephebophile board repurposed as gays and trannychasers once that stuff stopped being allowed. The audience has aged and changed since all that shit, but whether "traps" or "cute boys" it's still basically a board for jaded pederasts.
The funny thing about pedos is that, while the media stereotype has them all being old fat men into little boys, in reality (supported by this very board) they're all young fat men into little girls. That's why the "boys" on /cuteboys/ are basically also little girls, because otherwise those pedos wouldn't want them.
There are some key issues where Holla Forums is closer to being correct than liberals, but their worldview is so juvenile and conspiratorial that they're never able to draw any serious conclusions.
It's all the Jews, man, wake up.
The funny part is that blaming the Jews for all the evils of the world is essentially how Arabs (and by extension: Muslims) think. These people have more in common with those Islamic terrorists than they do with their own countrymen.
It's the same bullshit with that faggot Milo and how a massive amount of the aut-right were gay.
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Wew lad that’s three spooks in one sentence. Very spooky, go back to Holla Forums and jerk off to Dugin.
This is cosplay, spectacle, it is to the right-wing as a trap is to girls.
PEDOWOOD
There have been threads for years about Hollywood pedophilia and casting couch sexual coercion.
How did humans cultivate crops and breed domesticated animals with certain traits if they didn't know which genes or combinations of genes were responsible for those traits?
Are you serious? It's garbage.
It all depend on what you inherit. If both of your parents are tall and come from tall grandparents and so on chances are you will be tall as well. If it's a mixed bag short and tall you could be a manlet born from a giant.
Boylove?
I mean, there's the Trotskyists….
Neither Holla Forums nor Holla Forums is right most of the time. You're both just equally retarded dogs barking at each other on either side of the fence. Stop labeling yourself, you dumb cunts, and start making up your own minds. You don't have life figured out if you still adhere to the false dichotomy of the political spectrum.
inb4 ban for opposing opinion.
the enlightened centrist has logged on. having opinions is stupid. if u believe in something ur a fuckin moron. there's no difference between good and bad things.
See, this is exactly what I expected. Perfect example of how rotten your mind is"
I take it you didn't make the effort of googling 'false dichotomy'?
im not left or right wing… im post-ideology.
i just base my political opinions on reality using logic and reason. im not even a part of your false dichotomy, i have life figured out. i don't label myself, so im superior to anyone who does.
Are you genuinely implying that's a bad thing? Kek, thanks for proving my point, user. Keep the templates coming!
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as a meager ideologue, i hate using logic or reason. i throw darts at a board to determine my take on any political issue… if only i had le logic and reason =^(
You can't escape ideology, kiddo
… that's the point
Interesting how you're arguing yourself, seeing as you determined my position for me. Nice monologue though.
The only right path is to avoid all ideology entirely. Anything that already exists and makes rational sense is dogma.
What does it feel like being enlightened by revolutionary non-stance taking post-ideology? It's so hard to search the tomes of Marx to learn what my position on contemporary issues are supposed to be. This is how the left-right destinction functions and it's such a hassle!
thinking that you've abstained from a position is taking a position. just listen to a zizek youtube lecture or something you might accidentally start to learn things
Who the fuck do you think you are, the Pope?
/leftypope/ btfo!
zizek was yet another casualty to the left/right false dichotomy… and is thus… an idiot. he doesn't have life figured out.
im so sorry
finally someone with some FUCKING SENSE on this website you just gotta look at the facts you friggin morons
Zucc 2020
Damn imgaine being so enlightened that you can't even fromulate your own views into words.
Prove it
Never fucking ever.
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Holla Forums is never right, instead of giving them points use your fucking brain and curbstomp the everliving shit out of these metaphor using brain-canceroids
Nah, I disagree with this
Everything Holla Forums says is false.
Therefore when Holla Forums says it isn't reddit, it can be concluded that Holla Forums is reddit.
Ironically they are right about the Jews, but instead of just Jews it's bourgies. They will never go further than that, though. Like most people they get so close but won't actually name what's really responsible (capitalism).
Really activates the almonds.
user, come on now
Now they think the B.O of Holla Forums was also in that video. This is next level retardation.
Being working class has to do with your relation to the means of production, not what your arbitrary bullshit identity happens to be, you fucking retard.
The issue is that most leftists suffer from a confirmation bias that clouds their judgement: they afford themselves a level of nuance to conveniently dissociate themselves from anything that would result in bad PR, but lump any and all (often, their own shortcomings projected onto others) negative points to their enemy.
Selective breeding is a trade for pseudoscientist Holla Forums edgelords
Corellation means coincidence and coincidence cant be quantified and should be disregarded. The important factor has always been the breeding environment that shapes our genes after we are conceived. We all know its much more important.
They're right that mass immigration destabilizes society but wrong about the reasons that cause it (imperialist wars, capitalism, colonialism etc.). Instead the blame it on the jooos/globalists
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Flawless Holla Forums logic.
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The left wish to take away their country's middle class (the working class) property away, not breed, and bring brown slaves to replace the population.
leftypol in a nutshell
no
go to gulag
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retards like you get gulag
the READING CAMP NO LESS
you will be forced to read
THE GREAT BRAINLET PURGE WILL LEAVE NO SURVIVORS
I thought you could choose your class? If you believe that it determines all struggle and we can't choose class, then class-based oppression is as bad as any oppression against some factor you cannot choose. Wait a minute…
hahahhahaa please stop, I can't
Today I'll own a bank and collect rent, tomorrow I'll work for a wage down at the shop. Choosing your class is so easy! its like fuckken D&D character creation!
yes.
now you do the same
That's the most liberal shit I've read
No argument as always.
Ah, so you cant choose your class! Got it… that means that oppression based on class-based differences is wrong because you can't choose race- I mean class.
Already have, the arguments always resort to emotional appeals/opinions based on systems that have been rendered irrelevant, like sharing-based associations/relationships.
We aren't playing some dumb RPG choosing your own class is fucking impossible unless you're one of those "bullshitting yourself up by the bootstraps"
Then read the next part of my post, moron.
Therefore…
the argument was 'no'
the post it was an answer to was a strawman from someone who hasn't even managed to read the FAQ
shit questions made in bad faith get shit answers made in bad faith
if you weren't a bookphobic retard you'd know that socialists want the negation of class society
DotP is merely the means to that end
also
dumb moralist
read Marx
Denial and damage control, typical communist canard, not really an argument.
He said: The left wish to take away their country's middle class (the working class) property away.
Historically, this has been true of some portion of the left. Even many leftists here justify their class-based genocide by rebranding the middle class as petit bourgeoise to be sent to 'corrective labour camps'. His argument is sound.
The response was 'go to gulag', PROVING his point that there is an intention and obsession with forced labour camps.
Coming from a "bookphobic" retard, that means nothing.
Yes, and scientologists believe in Dianetics. Many groups of people have faith in many things.
The bookphobe makes himself clear: he has not even read Marx enough to actually cite the arguments he wishes to introduce.
maybe about 0.1% of them at best
tinfoil tier at best, if shitler had painted anyone else as the scapegoat, it would be them. he only picked Jews because he knew he could get away with it.
Nrx types have long recognised that. neoabsolutism.wordpress.com
Blaming Jews and blaming capitalism aren't compatible views?
rightists are big prancing homos and pederasts
historically this has been true for some portion of the right etc etc.
a marxist recognises that the class system is structural, the gulag is only needed to suppress counterrevolution
if the ruling class accepts the revolution then no gulaging is needed. There are examples of bourgeois and noble class traitors.
you don't even understand the terminology
maximum autism
indeed, and the negation of class society has always been the centre of marxist socialism. you can't strawman this.
these are not necessarily moral arguments, even if the terminology is loaded
it's clear that you haven't because you have no idea what sort of arguments marxists make
protip: marxism is materialist, not idealist
?
Only if you allow the conquered subjects to migrate.
Which is why Britain allowed for immigration to come from the former colonies in the 80s and 90s. Look how they have a large Pakistani and Indian minority. Also France has a lot of immigrants from Algeria and Maghreb
Sounds like 3rd position or national-syndicalism tbh
openrevolt.info
lmao
Sure, there have been gays in many movements, but they have congregated towards pro-LGBT movements more frequently, kind of like how many leftists, even ITT, LARP about operating gulags, thereby making the other user's point that they… LARP about operating gulags.
Lot of counter-revolutionaries loosely defined by the people with power, huh.
lmao
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
When the 'we read books but can't cite them' crowd is stuck in a contradiction, they think maymays let them run away from it. Sorry, try using your critical reasoning skills to show how the other user pointing out how people who tell him to go to gulag means that those anons don't fantasize about operating gulags against people.
"you don't even understand the terminology"
Exploitation is always followed by "ugh, you don't agree with my moral outrage? muh porky!111"
That's idealistic: believing in something that is completely divorced from reality is idealist.
intellectual honesty is a reciprocal. do you consider
this intellectually honest or informed? literally reading the FAQ and a few wikipedia articles about marxism would counteract this strawman
or maybe they are counter-shitposting and not entirely serious. this is an imageboard, you know? maximum autism
what's your point here?
yes, now see how the 'middle class' or 'upper class' doesn't really feature in marxist analysis
a rich worker is a worker no matter how 'middle class'
k
again; you don't understand the terminology
if you were here to argue in good faith you'd at least learn the basics first
Except the vast majority of the immigration isn't going to nations involved with that at all?
If it wasn't for the strong welfare systems the migrant crisis would have been a fraction of the size and the rise of nationalism wouldn't have been much of an issue.
Then you'd get someone to read the old family threads on Holla Forums where people went on about taking children away from their parents and raising them in communes and laughter at the demographic demise of "whites" and realize it's pretty accurate even to the supposedly non-idpol marxist boards.
I stopped going on /cute boys/ after seeing this
shit
they take the children away from their parents and raise them in the communes where their parents also are
have you ever heard of a thing called a village? children were in fact raised before the bourgeois nuclear family model became dominant
also I think the more traditional extended family model rather than any sort of forced commune is more popular on the board
prob to trigger Holla Forumsyps
since we generally don't give a shit about the 'demographic demise' fantasies of Holla Forums
it is simply irrelevant
Yes, there have been leftist people, even ITT, who want to "revolt" against the middle class and put them in gulags, and punish those who oppose the revolution. There are also other leftists, like liberals, who want mass migration and believe in replacement population policies to "pay for da pensions". The 'worker's revolution' that has nothing but class division necessarily infers migration of any ethnicity to fuel 'the revolt'. In effect, the policies are the same.
I read this thread, like this guy:
This guy: (YOU)
You again, LARPing about gulags (making the other user's point):
And your response here:
About 'gulaging' needed to suppress free speech.
I just need to include his post talking about class-based oppression and your own posts LARPing about gulags to prove it.
Oh, and this Wikipedia article: en.wikipedia.org
Okay, then you admit LARPing about putting classes of people you dislike into forced labour/corrective camps is nothing serious? I'll wait.
It's hypocritical to LARP as revolutionaries but then dismiss revolutions you don't want. Not very becoming of a revolutionary to be blind to their own oppression.
Nothing you said rebukes the link and the expansion on what the terminology means. Marxist analysis is one of many, what you're essentially saying is 'this one method of examining class is the only way'. So much for 'reading books' or examining other viewpoints…
I'll include it again: "The middle class is a class of people in the middle of a social hierarchy. In Weberian socio-economic terms, the middle class is the broad group of people in contemporary society who fall socio-economically between the working class and upper class. The common measures of what constitutes middle class vary significantly among cultures. A sizable and healthy middle-class can be viewed as a characteristic of a healthy society."
Yeah, many small business owners are what you just described. In the middle class and work managing their own businesses.
You agree, then.
That is what you would expect from somebody who sees class and nothing else. Classic reductionism.
where nigga
and there have been homogay rightist people
it does not mean that it is representative
Why? Marxists oppose mass migration because it expands the reserve army of labour, where has a revolution ever happened because of an imported group of ethnic revolutionaries?
you are reading quite a bit into what was a flippant shitpost, are you familiar with the concept of joke, irony, sarcasm or maybe that sometimes people say things they don't honestly mean?
this is why nobody likes autists
but yes, people who work against the society generally are removed from society for preventative, punitive or reformative reasons
this is constant in feudal, capitalist and probably socialist societies as well.
what? a revolutionary should support any and all revolutions of any kind or they are hypocritical? how the fuck does this make sense? the revolution is a means to an end
why is this relevant to anything? you could argue that the intelligentsia was 'middle class' and yet somehow they managed just fine in the soviet union for example
BUSINESS OWNER who does not employ others = petit-bourg
a person who works for a wage = proletarian
good job m8 you are getting there, you almost understand the marxist conception of class
you made a statement, not an argument
you either don't understand what materialism means vis-a-vis idealism or are arguing in bad faith
I gave you the benefit of the doubt
I don't give a shit about your identity, go cry to tumblr
Proportionally? If you are concerned with LGBT, look at the left-wing. There have been many more that flock to them.
This thread is representative of the views of the people who have posted, and as I have shown (and as the bureaucrats who acted to maintain gulags demonstrated), many people LARP about gulags while making moral arguments against the evils of exploitation against the lower classes (but MY class-based oppression is okay).
I just told you, the revolution cannot be split up by barriers of religion or ethnicity. Didn't Lenin talk about the Jewish worker having to just become 'the worker'?
Potential work forces are not armies. That makes no sense. So you are in favour of restrictive immigration because it would increase the 'labour army'?
That's not what I said, I said that the worker's revolution must be class-focused and allow all people to join. Otherwise… muh identity politics!!!
Go and see how many people on this board take gulags seriously and LARP about them in a non-meme fashion. There are Stalinists on this board who defend them.
What a funny joke, talking about class-based oppression in a totally non-ironic sense. What a moron, lol.
You just refuted your 'le irony maymay' """shitpost""".
That's the heart of the revolutionary spirit. They ought to be accepting of a revolution overthrowing tyranny, even their own tyranny.
We are talking about the middle class jihad many want to launch to 'prevent' upper classes from "muh exploitation, muh morality".
Who doesn't employ others? Then the business won't last for long. There's a reason those terms are archaic: they're a false dichotomy because many small business owners are not in some upper echelon or whatever, they're as bad as their own workers. The workers took no risks to open up businesses whatsoever, no loans to defer payments on behalf of, or bureaus that have to be consulted with in order to ____.
There are rich workers who are in the upper classes, but they're the same to you because they work for a wage?
You made the statement 'k', which is Okay, in response to my argument pointing out the hypocrisy of 'muh morals' and bitching about exploitation, but not when it's YOUR exploitation.
Still haven't responded to it, and I doubt your feeble mind can, really.
Try harder.
Contextual definition was the one I cited right after it in the post following your conflation of the two definitions.
I don't give a shit about your class, go bitch about non-existent exploitation while hypocritically allowing yourself to be exploiters on tumblr.
user, when private property is abolished (as would happen as a result of a succesful revolution) there is no more bourgeois to 'oppress'
yes, the cost of labour goes down, strikes are less effective and thus labour power is weakened compared to capital
very true, but how does this infer "migration of any ethnicity to fuel 'the revolt'."
yes
are you still upsetti that I told you to go to gulag? I'm sorry, I didn't really mean it, I just wanted you to educate yourself of marxist concepts so you could argue against them rather than silly strawmen
are you against prisons?
so people who support the liberal revolutions of 1789 and 1775 should also support socialist revolutions? I agree but for different reasons im sure
exactly and this is why the class system and capitalism has to be done away with. turning all proles to petit-bourgs is not enough.
yes
I said that the marxist argument is in and of itself amoral
you said many leftists make moral arguments of it, which is true, but beside the point, the moralist argument is in no way necessary or inherent
marxism is materialist vis-a-vis idealism, if it is idealism in this
sense is again a completely different discussion and also completely irrelevant to this particular discussion
what is wrong with you?
well fuck off then, this is a class politics board
Will be when pigs fly, yes. I have as much evidence to back up my predictions as you have presented.
Why is this bad? That's a good thing, cheap labour is the greatest.
Good, strikes are meaningless anyways, the imported workers don't give a shit about 'muh morals'.
Because you must allow all people to participate because class is the only factor that determines anything consequential in your worldview. If you want to stay consistent, you have to allow them all in.
Great, so you agree that many use it unironically.
I am against retarded prison sentences that gulags had, like pic related.
Like 'counter-revolutionary offences' that are tyrannical and disallow things like a free press.
Revolutionaries must revolt against all tyranny.
But capitalism has been more successful than any other economic system that has ever existed at bringing the most nations to become industrialized superpowers.
Okay, so that reduces everything to 'work for a wage or not'. Reality is more nuanced and multi-faceted than that.
Then it isn't exploitation or oppression of the upper class. Don't bitch about exploitation or oppression by the upper classes if it's amoral.
Then the concept of exploitation, which relies on unfair and unjust action, must be abandoned. That will be a cold day in hell, commies love LARPing as victims of 'muh opreshun'.
It is not that definition of idealism. I literally defined it. Get with the program honey.
It is relevant when I criticize people like you for being non-pragmatic and call them idealistic morons because they "pursue unrealistic ideals".
Class is a social construct anyways, that's why it doesn't matter. Everything is religion, you are either religious or you aren't. Am I being a reductionist yet?
That refugees are there to subplant the gains made by white proles in the countries they're migrating to. Refugees are scabs anyway you cut them, and if you spent anytime in a third world countries they're every bit as reactionary and backwards as your average polyp.
sounds like idpol but okay
How can the left advise anyone on correct or incorrect if they believe that everything is subjective interpretation?
E-except for class! That's the one special case.
If the left actually believed muh subjective experience, wouldn't they have to become egoists?
White proles were able to shield the!selves against much of the worst of capitalism by organizing around a common identity. This allowed them to change their material conditions and mitigate the worst of capitalist exploitation onto other identities.
Idpol is a more effective praxis for the average prole then Communism will ever be lol
No, if they were egoists without arbitrary restriction and pursued self-interest at the cost of others, they would be capitalists.
The Yugoslav poster ought to read these when he goes on about 'muh amoral claims'.
Uh oh
everything is subjective an arbitrary except my interpretation of Marx, which happens to be correct and that everyone else must follow otherwise I'll cry like a baby about oppression.
Can you prove me wrong regarding idpol being an effective shield against capitalism. That it essentially mitigates exploitation on other proles. Whites and men enjoy higher average net worth, longer lives, more education and escaped a butt ton of genocides all because of it. When white dudes were killed end masse it was due to wars they insitgated.
Why do you think so much of pol is not white. The base and superstructure all scream at them that the best way to reduce your exploitation is idpol.
You guys will rail on SJWs all day long like they are so ignorant when in reality they are responding to their material conditions more effectively than Marxists.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
I'm surprised this doesn't get posted more.
this is a conversation about aims of the socialists, your beliefs of their realism or likelihood of its enactment are irrelevant
yes, for bourgeois who doesn't have to pay so much in wages - also downwards pressure in wages is ironically something that causes capitalist crises of overproduction, since underpaid workers don't have money to spend on products
maybe, but they should care about their self-interest, which is getting paid for their work
only insofar as it serves the needs of the revolution or socialist state or whatever. again-materialism, not idealism
Some do, yes. Some people on the right feel that women are the enemy and all effort should be made to get men pregnant somehow, go figure.
me too, we have so much in common already
private ownership of press disallows free press
Very true, but it has ran its course.
yes but not in terms of class politics. any and all wage workers benefit from getting the full value of their work, not only the part given to them by the capitalist.
if you consider the terms 'exploitation' and 'oppression' inherently moralistic, I suppose.
I want to end class rule for entirely self-interested and amoral reasons, the moral arguments are just icing on the cake
k, well ur a dummy how about that
not really, no more than any facet of reality is in a sense a 'social construct'. The proletariat has a common interest in ending class rule of the bourgeoisie, much like the bourgeoisie had a common interest in ending the feodal rule of the nobility. That is the gist of it.
read Stirner, specifically The Unique and Its Property
Friendly fire user, this guy is also identitarian like yourself
anyway I'm not sure why I am now responsible for all statements by all self-proclaimed and even supposed socialists or leftists
and yet another strawman
Not so much my belief, I'm just examining their claims of what is inevitable or "will be done" with reality. It's an observation, not a belief.
Don't covet things, user. You should know better.
It does.
Then we agree.
Do you agree with gulags and the sentences that people were tossed in for? If you do, we don't agree. I believe in a free press and journalistic freedom, as well as freedom of information.
Then we don't agree.
I believe in freedom of speech, you do not.
On what basis do you determine this?
I don't think capitalism will last forever, but I don't believe what you believe will replace it.
It literally is, though. Just because you used 'class politics' doesn't mean the nuance and subtlety is lost.
Why don't you google them and see how many times they reference unjust or unfair action?
See for yourself.
So 'some' classes having self-interest is okay so long as we're a part of that class…
Okay. But my statement about their unrealistic ideals still stands.
But it literally is socially constructed. There are class-based differences within a society and between societies, making it socially defined. The 'poor' of the West are in the upper classes. Do you own more than a few thousand dollars? Congrats, you're upper class globally.
His arbitrary distinctions irk me and strike me as a case for special pleading. Whatever I pursue in my own self-interest is what is my self-interest. His interpretation of its validity is next to meaningless.
Then most of this board LARPing about being exploited is an identitarian. Also, I think the word is 'moralist'.
Never said you were.
but not material reality
so
ideology
?
They're right that there's a force bigger than them [porkies not simply jews] that is making [parts of] the world worse.
They could be used as political tools by the elite. The refugees will likely become lower-class citizens and become manipulated by porky's political parties.
Refugees/multiculturalism also erases traditional culture to replace it with a new one (this could be good or bad) It could replace spooked cultures with a universal culture of science and reasoning, or, in Holla Forums's case, it could cause disagreements, war and destruction.
I still don't know if multiculturalism is a good idea because of political manipulation and the spread of disease.
The media is all about embracing mental-illness and counterproductive behavior. That's what it all boils down to. I don't know why they'd be doing this, but thats whats happening.
Like what you previously asked, yes. There are however some educational elements to hollywood, but most of the "comedy and family" movies lie on the the specrtrum from neutral to bad.
Also, look at all the ads on the internet now that use adult words and images. All the 10 year olds playing an app on their Iphone are gonna see 18+ content that's often not good even for adults.
even when pol is right, they're wrong
your faith in "logic and reason" is ideological
being compensated for work is in the interest of the worker.
in all situations? elaborate.
Some of them, yes. I have no idealistic, a-priori opposition to labour camps.
Does the media hold power and influence? Is privately owned media subject to the aims and goals of its owner?
Internal contradictions. Tendency of rate of profit to fall and concentration of capital for two.
Just for the record, what do you think I believe will replace it?
"any and all wage workers benefit from getting the full value of their work, not only the part given to them by the capitalist."
fair enough, mentally replace them with a non-moral equivalent then.
again, it's not a question of morality. The bourgeois class is actually very good at acting according to its class interest as a whole. see: neoliberalism
the wealth-based categorisation of class, yes, the marxist class-as-a-relation-to-the-means-of-production, no.
it is in my egoistic interest to overthrow the bourgeois class, to reach this aim I work with people who also have that same interest
this guy is literally advocating for identity politics, which would make them an identitarian and definitely not of the Holla Forumsetariat
what the fuck was all the garbage about stalinists and gulags then?
Define right-wing.
It's a system of ideals, yes. Most types of theory or beliefs are ideological, especially if they are class-based.
wow what the fuck hahaha
They are compensated. I offer you employment for a salary and you work for me. We both follow a contract we set forth. Contracts exist and employment contracts also exist.
No. But it is beneficial to allow mass migration if those workers form the revolution.
I don't mean the murderers and rapists, I mean those convicted of thought crimes or refusing taxation without representation.
Also forced labour is not a good punishment unless you believe in punitive justice.
Yes.
Yes.
That is not an argument against free press. I oppose monopolies brainwashing people on airwaves and all that. I support independent, free inquiry and government transparency. That is not something that would fly in Stalinist regimes.
Elaborate.
Depends where you look at it. It can exist in a flux, that's for sure. Nobody ever said capitalism is endless profit always increasing, nor is that always required. But plateauing or declining profits don't determine the issue with capitalism running its course. This assumes that economic plateau or stagnation means that capitalism will be replaced. This begs the question: why, and with what?
How does this relate to capitalism having run its course? That people succeed in accumulating wealth doesn't mean capitalism is 'over'.
Some socialist-inspired, worker control.
The 'full value' is lost when you sign an employment contract because you don't own the business: you are working for somebody else. If you want full value, become an independent contractor.
Such as? If I had a nickel for every 'exploitation' card that is played…
*Self-interest. You responded to a point about self-interest. I said that capitalists pursuing their own self-interest is what they do, but this irks others who want other classes (but not those bourgeoise classes) to pursue self-interest.
Is it malleable and dependent upon the society is exists within? If so, then yes. Means of production are a social construction, too. It is socially defined and delineated between other modes of production.
And it is in their interest to be bourgeoise.
Where?
Talking about many leftists, even on this board, who LARP as gulag operators while also making moral arguments against exploitation.
lmao so two guys kissing is "mental illness" and "counterproductive behavior"?
I meant that they do both.
Mental illness can be homosexuality, but its not counterproductive.
Being a greedy asshole isn't a mental illness, but its counterproductive.
I didn't mean that they're all both these things.
Evolutionary, homosexuals are dead-ends. If your kid is born gay, he can never have children of his own, that he's biologically related to. They can adopt, but that's not his own children. He can impregnate a female with IVF, but that's circumstantially homosexual, necessarily (in terms of creating life) willing to donate sperm to fertilize an egg or vice versa.
Welfare does attract immigrants but it also keeps the working class complacent. The importation of new labor is needed under capitalim's grow-or-die mentality. New markets must be opened up by force if necessary. If it requires a war or coup that displaces millions then so be it. Plus poky gets all that cheap labor and the war economy booms. You have to be kinda dense to not think that war causes a lot of refugees. Climate refugees will be an increasing trend in the future as low lying cities experience more flooding and stronger storms.
lurk more
which is why you don't belong here
quite, and labour power makes sure the wages stay on reasonable levels
the more the worker gets out of the time they sell, the less the capitalist extracts surplus value, the better for the worker
sure, it's just questionable if they will, or if their inclusion in general will lead to that result
like not believing in private property?
why is this a justification?
monopolies are a consequence of concentration of capital
independece of inquiry is in opposition to privately owned media
TRPF is an example. read Marx for more examples
as the rate of profit approaches zero there is little to no incentive for capital investment; the risk becomes much greater than the projected gain, thus capital stops self-perpetuating
when 10 people own 99,9999995% of things in the world someone is bound to start asking questions
current economic inequality is already causing severe pressure on capitalist societies, as inequality increases so will instability
close enough. A meritocratic society with rational economy and a priority on self-actualisation and specifically arts and sciences is what I want. Socialism is a way to achieve this.
exactly, the fruits of your labour are going to someone else
and subject oneself to inhuman conditions or get outcompeted by a more ruthless capitalist? noty
It's a pretty good card, just not a necessary one for marxists or one I personally much care for
The self-interest of capital (owning class) and labour (working class) is in conflict! Precisely! it's nice how you are reaching the exact same conclusions as Marx did.
no
en.wikipedia.org
'between other modes of production'?
precisely, this is why there is such a thing as 'class conflict' and why it is the fundamental social conflict
well perhaps they feel gulags are justified while bourgeois exploitation isn't, what's so difficult to understand about this?
you seem to think that there is a fundamental difference between domination by an all-powerful corporation and domination by an all-powerful state
I actually know of two situations where a gay dude married a chick for a decade and had several kids because they were too afraid to be out of the closet.
I guess if jail gay is a thing then it's not too much of a long shot for a gay to turn off the lights and just think about a dude while impregnating his wife.
There's also the possibility that a gay man would retain the biological will towards passing on their genes despite whatever their personal preference.
Basically what I'm saying is being gay doesn't dissolve your balls.
...
I was wondering who this was in a couple of the initial filenames.
So they wordfiltered Holla Forums to /cargo-cult/ for a while? They don't know how that term works, unsurprisingly.
Don't blame us for Porky completely co-opting the American left. Between a entury of propaganda and the fall of the USSR, it was inevitable.
You joke, but that's pretty much the reigning order in Western Europe.
...
I always think of Holla Forums as someone who receives a participation trophy. They realize that something is wrong with the way we live but every step further than that, be it defining the "something" or be it ideas on how to get rid of that "something, they fuck up completely in every way imaginable.
jejejejeje
Labour power, as in advocacy groups or union groups? Yeah, I don't oppose those groups. It's within their rights to do so, and it is within the employer's rights to not hire them.
That's a different story, if they are willing to buy into the revolution or not.
That's not what a thought crime is. A thought crime is being jailed for wrongthink. You don't 'just' not believe in private property, you believe in the seizure and acquisition of said private property, don't you? Otherwise, just not believing in it is not something you get jailed for. You get jailed for stealing private property or damaging private property. Go into Walmart and say you don't believe in private property. You won't get jailed. Go and say something mean about a minority group, you will be fined or jailed for hate speech violations. Paul Weston was put in jail for reciting Churchill and the police later issued him an apology because it was an unjust decision that was made. Had he berated private property, he would not have been arrested. Had he acted to destroy Walmart, that would be violence.
Because taxation without representation is unjust if you are on the receiving end. It means that the bare necessity of what the state must provide for the funds they take is not even being proportionally held up to the taxpayers. I support the 'counter-revolutionaries' who opposed the tyrannical commissars of finance appointed to acquire these goods/assets from people without properly representing them.
That is an obligation to liberty and representative state power.
I said I oppose them, I didn't say that I opposed force to destroy or break them up. I was speaking for my own person: I don't care to engage or do business with those monopolies, and I don't.
Not really. I can start my own journalism business and act independently to expose governments or call for transparency. Awful broad brush you're using.
Your picture doesn't have a citation, by the way. Also, like I said, the tendency is circumstantial.
There is a difference between declining profit rates and zero profit rates. The latter is a extraordinary assertion that denies the nuance of 'well, what industries or nations are you comparing?' It depends on your sample size and timeline, too.
That just means that those people have succeeded at creating their monopolies in their favour. That doesn't mean that capitalism has run its course, that means that it has achieved the point of a free market to allow the cream to rise to the top, like the Walmarts and the Apples. That people 'start asking questions' is indicative of them coveting the success and opting for revolt, not that capitalism 'has run its course'. Not for the wealthy, it hasn't.
Rational is a loaded term: who do you appoint to "be the rational ones"? Who is this arbiter of rationality in this circumstance?
Then become an independent contractor for yourself.
Then don't complain about exploitation if you admit to opting out of the choice for ideological reasons.
Also, what inhumanity? The middle-class business owners in industrialized businesses don't suffer from that, please provide examples of this inhumanity? Also, that is a moral term like exploitation.
Not when you LARP about gulags, it isn't. It's hypocritical because you support oppression against other classes but not your class.
Sure, I never disagreed with that. I disagree with absolving personal agency or denying that contractual agreements are forced when they are clearly consensual.
Yes, they literally are socially defined. Your own wiki link talks about evolving societal attitudes over time.
Yes.
Is that the same poster?
Now you know how the bourgeoise feel when private property is being destroyed: they feel justified in their own actions, too, just as easily as you do.
In effect, exclusive homosexuality might as well be a vasectomy because you will literally never come across a female ovum or a male spermatozoa in your life. I'm saying that your example is a bisexual man who was actually homosexual. I'm talking about exclusive homosexuality.
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as in any political organisation of labour interests as an abstract
and what happens when class solidarity reaches its apex and nobody is willing to wage-slave anymore? this is of course an oxymoron, you only get to choose between starvation and wageslavery, thats why its called that. how do you prevent state power from destroying these rights? you don't need me to give you examples of capitalist states outlawing unions and working against them in general
you say media has power, but speech has no consequences? or is it that the consequences of speech are beyond the realm of things it is 'allowed' to legislate for? if some radical islamic firebrand goes to america and preaches and advocates for terrorism is that within his rights of free speech? where the fuck is there your 'freedom of speech' anyway? you know being a communist is technically illegal in America?
veering dangerously close to socdem talk here buddy
how do you figure
this is called liberal ideology, now you have to justify it in some way
the thing about monopolies is you don't really get to pick
that's lovely, but we are discussing real power and impact, not your idealist fantasies. go start a blog, go compete with Murdoch Media on a political question.
it was more illustrative example than hard data or an argument in and of itself
approaches zero, the RoP doesn't have to be exactly zero to make investment as a whole into a liability. low enough RoP means perpetual crisis until it recovers, a massive war that destroys MoP is the most notable way of recovery in the 20th century. really looking forward to it.
you don't seriously believe this do you? even ancaps claim that in their 'anarchist' capitalism monopolies are impossible because for whatever magical reason they claim states are necessary for monopolies to form, they don't actively try to justify monopoly which is obviously destructive to your liberal freedom, free enterprise and whatnot
yes, when capitalist society can no longer sustain its illusion it has ran its course and will collapse. what your sense of 'legality' or the bourgs think about that development is irrelevant
how well the needs of the population are satisfied, and also sustainability and efficency of that need satisfaction
capitalism only accounts for efficency of supply, not utility
starving people instead of giving them food that is about to spoil is in the rational economic self-interest of capital, but it is also a pointless waste. the reason the economy exists in the first place is to serve the needs of human beings, when it diverts from that function into some abstract entity you sacrifice everything at the altar of is when it loses its rights to 'rationality'.
I still have to sell my labour for less that it's full value, and the value itself is determined by whoever I'm selling my labour to. even as a petit-bourg I'm subject to laws of capitalist economics.
I don't consider 'I prefer slavery to starvation' an ideological reason tbh
"I worked 20 hours a day for 5 years to get this business where it is today, now I employ 1917 people to work for me"
you abuse yourself so you can eventually extract surplus value from others and live off their work. sacrifice everything for the market. this is a value statement but it is inhumane and pointless.
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socialists support the abolition of class, if you think it is LITERALLY impossible is irrelevant to the a priori moral dimension
what does personal agency have to do with this?
picking between slavery and starvation is not consensual contractual agreement - humans need to eat to exist, land is enclosed, you have to sell your labour to live -"but you can start a company" no, not without capital, you maximum idealist
no it doesn't, it talks about how the MoP change over time along with the material conditions of the economy. 'attitudes' have nothing to do with it.
what did you mean by this then
now you're just being obtuse, you literally quoted the same post, good luck with the autism
NO SHIT
how the fuck do you think I would be isolated from bourgeois-liberal ideology in the world?
The family structure is literally a racket created in order to get women to do heaps of unpaid labor. Read Engels brainlet