Angela Nagle

Angela Nagle
"Alt-Right and the Left's Response" discussion/debate


Other urls found in this thread:

Is this the power of the intellectual left?

Go cry some more about how your spooked as fuck "white race"


polyp, if you really are one, what is the difference in quality between here and pol

its true though

LLOOLL third speaker goes full blown horseshoe theory

Fam just go there yourself if you want to see. I assure you it’s just right-wing outrage porn and conspiracies+literal insanity. Holla Forums is a fuckton more comfy and has better discussion even on favored right-wing topics like the Jews and Israel

Go to pol
It's full blown idiots, conspiracy nuts, and trump shills
I can't believe it was once my main board when I was in high school
Maybe it's gotten worse or it was always that bad but I don't know it's just unusable now


I was expecting that retard who still think GamerGate was anything but Nazis harassing women they don't like to whine here like he always does when Nagle is mentioned but it's just some stupid Nazis, what a relief.

Should I?
I know it got Holla Forums mad and got pol to spread influence and it piggybacked of the anita satkiiseean flame wars and I know the actual effects it had on online discourse but Do I actually need to know the specifics about Zoe quinn an GG to discuss politics with dummies online

No, it's nothing of significance, it was just an excuse for trolling and Chanology tier newfaggotry.

The third speaker is correct about how progressives invented a mythology that America is 'a nation of immigrants' and a melting pot.

Their grievances were legitimate and the subsequent harassment was real. It has all been autistically documented.

You amerilards shoot yourself so well muslims don't even need to blow you up.

starts at 04:55


There are so many better things to do with your life than retread dead internet drama

I don't even get why the left has to "respond" to the alt-right. It's a trivially small number of people here in the US. Besides, diversity and incompetence will make Republicans unelectable soon enough, it will be much easier to agitate under Progressive hegemony. Just wait for the Dems to pass amnesty and get a supermajority, then outflank them and work from there.

I too favor accelerationism.

Armchair + wait for amnesty is better than making yourself look stupid.

Back to reddit with this one.

no it wont
the dems are not our friends

It's an interesting data point in how idpol is created, spreads and breeds more idpol.

For many of us, it was a really illuminating experience. But if you are already aware of the problem and its mechanics, liberals alienating yet another demographic is all you need to know.

Nagle's understanding of internet culture is pretty good aside from GG, and since she doesn't even mention GG very much, her Wikipedia copypasta understanding of it doesn't particularly hurt her broader analyses.

That said, it would be nice if someone with some sort of connection to her could politely correct her on the subject.

>and the subsequent harassment was realcompletely average for widely known people on the internet (which, for girls, was proven to come primarily from other girls), except for several high-profile instances that were strongly suspected or even proven to be self-inflicted false flags

Honestly I actually agree with you to some extent because I think Nagle is pretty reductionist, or at least she hasn't done quite enough research to fully understand the nuances of how the right has risen online in recent times.ue either. There is a degree to which people have been brought into the alt-right through anti-fem and the manosphere, though, so I don't think it's totally untr It would make sense to me as well because I think deep down a lot of people end up becoming alt-right because they are depressed by the anomic and alienating reality of the world and they attach themselves to spooks like race to try and establish a sense of purpose and meaning for themselves in a world that increasingly seems without it. At least, unlike most contemporary academics, she makes some attempt to understand how the this manifests itself online (namely through incel rage at the collapse of traditional monogamy) and how it's affecting our political discourse. That's not to say I think her work is really that quality of anything - I don't - but it's certainly a more considered cultural analysis than I've seen anyone else attempt to produce.

Sorry for ebing drunk and maybe not making sense - I haven't seen this video yet but I read her book and seen other interviews with her in them in the past.

She is right about GG though. There wasn't such an autistic fit of rage when Jeff Gerstmann got fired from Gamespot, and in this case it was truly corruption coming from a serious and well-established video game publisher.
The internet only got mad when an irrelevant but promiscuous blue-haired liberal fucked some journalists.

I totally agree with you. She glosses over (in the books too) the role that american liberalism played in all this.

Oh, here you are!

but it is u idiot

Holla Forumschan pls go

It will, because right-wingers will give up when they can see that it'll be impossible for them to ever win an election again, making it easier to agitate. If every illegal immigrant brings 3-4 family members Dems will get another 30 million votes or so, maybe more. This will absolutely crush Republicans.

oops. Latino turnout rates aren't great of course, more work needs to be done to agitate among Latinos.

these are all boring cliches, they have anything to them


Lmao. Not only was this most of "Abuela" Clinton's actual failed strategy last election, it won't pan out in the future either since on top of the low turnout they skew way more conservative than she (or alt-right dipshits) give credit for. Check out any Florida rally ever or even the Republican primary itself

Don't know how you can't at least acknowledge that some of aspect of it is, considering all the whiny incels that flood this board with complaints about how socialism won't get them poon so, they're just going to be fashies instead. Also, just about every time I go on 4/pol/ there's some incel topic that's bumped to the top.

Pol pls go

Even fucking Joe Biden would've won. ANYONE but Hillary would have won.

your new friend is showing

Remind me why >>>Holla Forums takes this seriously.

Like 99% of feminists she struggles to control her ad-hominem Tourette's. You can't debate someone like this because she takes up too much time reframing her bullshit unprepared arguments for "le intended audience."

You're the most obvious skinwalker ever.

It was the "gamers are dead" articles that set it off, before that it was just Holla Forums being Holla Forums. If the Gerstmann thing was followed up by "gamers are dead", it would have happened.

There's a lot of truth in these claims though.

It's true, right wing politics is the result of sexual psychosis.


ED documents drama pretty objectively tbh

thx user, will watch

The only reason why Nagle is so interesting to me is that she, as a woman, is butting heads with the hyper-feminized left identity and gatekeeping politics as well as daring to see life as a leftist woman, for at least 2 pages, through the eyes of a man low on the sexual hierarchy.. She also is giving liberals permission to start talking about chan culture, and actually take it seriously for once instead of a joke. 4chan actually does yield a lot of incluence, or at least it used to. And I think leftypol has the potential to yield a lot of influence too Hell we are much larger than /r/socialism even if it doesn't feel like it
If it were a man making the same points, he'd still garner some attention, but it wouldn't be such a big deal. I could be wrong.

she also is very intelligent and sort of cuts through the BS and gets right to the heart of various things, she isn't afraid to challenge orthodoxy, which is why people like Michael Tracey and Thomas Frank are also valuable.

she is also despised by many twitter idpolers. she can't say a thing without them getting triggered, it's pretty funny. may on /r/ChapoTrapHouse bitch about her as well, all because she dared use semi-mocking phraseology when talking about Rated PG Parental Guidances in her book.

yea most threads i've seen about her on the chapo reddit are negative. but i don't like chapo anyway, so not really disappointing to me

I like the podcast quite a bit. I hate the subreddit.

She's wrong in her conclusion, but she is looking at the right direction. She's just unable to see the greater picture.

It is not that Alt-Right grows because it's members are virgins, although they may be not be an insignificant number. It's because they are deeply unhappy and have no goal in life.

And they have no goal in life because there is nothing tangible of value left today. There is no "goal" provided anywhere in society. There is no goal in darwinian sense of the word either, in sense that you can be assured that your genes will continue to exist and that your children will continue their evolutionary pattern towards ever-increasing greatness. They will not transcend the "rising beast" with current trajectory, at best they will be made to procreate with "lesser" races, or they most likely won't procreate at all - if you get to in the first place. They will not defeat the "end of the universe" to put it in secular terms, which are somewhat relevant today.

They also do not (or cannot get themselves to) believe in anything higher than themselves. There is nothing that transcends this world, no God, so there is no transcendental goal either.

So when you have a higher Autism Level youth that by it's nature pushes everything to it's logical extreme, that is also coincidentally deeply depressed they either become Communists or Alt-Right. I hope that the latter develops some new philosophy that no longer relies on the purely secular-darwinian goals.

You haven't read much of her stuff have you?

I did not read the book, but I listened to hours of appearances on various leftist forums and podcasts, read some articles also.

She acknowledges the problem beyond which is why I said "she is looking in the right direction".

She even knowingly stops addressing the point of it all, because she doesn't claim to have the answers.

Thx for the thoughtful comment

But I think that there is a goal for young men. And that is to find a girlfriend, marry her, and raise a family. The men who have trouble getting or maintaining long term relationships, which I think is approaching 20% of the US male millenial population now, they have a goal but they don't have directions.

There used to be directions for being a man and what you are supposed to do and what a woman is supposed to do. And in a sense the same rules are there, but we are told that the rules have been broken. So if men don't have full time jobs or high social status and are expecting a relationship despite that because women have liberated themselves to make money in the workplace, they find that they were dead wrong, the rule of them *also* *still* having to be the protectors is still there. They are getting conflicting messages, and aren't satisfied with letting women have the liberty to pursue what they want, but they basically either one path or a an unknown path

She doesn't fail to see the bigger picture. She just sees, rightly, that the alt-right's answers are dumb. She also thinks the SJW left don't have a coherent vision either which is her main critique of them.


or with that last sentence I should say, women have directions on the various paths they can take without societal retribution and with quite a bit of help from society.

Men have their map taken away, but once they do find it, they find there is only one direction: having a full time job and never losing it, being an emotional rock, etc etc

"You can be doing something in an ironic way and then you actually realize, oh no I actually think this now" nagle while discussing irony in radical spaces from your video

ho damn fucking owned bro

That's how unironic nazbols were born here.

Oops, it was meant only to .

video game journalism is/was objectively hacky
once a light got shined on the industry, it gave chan users something to be outraged about

If you are too new to know the full story, read the ED article.

chapo reddit reeeeeeeally fucking hated her.

I think people just don't want to admit that even if Leftism is objectively (heh) superior there are negative consequences for some people

What does that mean?

People lump chapo and nagle with the "scumbag left". But I don't think Nagle is a scumbag, and I would absolutely classify chapo and 2/3rds of their fans as uppity liberal starbucks-drinking scumbags

she's the latest punching bag of the cryptolib crowd

name jefg

Not to deny the impact the clickbaiters had on fanning the flames (of hatred against clickbaiters), but really it was the censorship that set it off.

First, because people would just blow some steam on the internet and leave it at that, as they always did, if they were simply allowed to.
Second, because they wouldn't keep migrating looking for a freer place to talk, from reddit to 4chan/v/ to 4chan/pol/ to IRC and 8ch, and getting radicalized along the way.
Third, because they wouldn't feel the need to be listened to and keep migrating to twitter, tumblr, etc. in search for a bigger audience.

Will we ever be rid of these people?

Gamergate politicized the chans and laid the groundwork for the alt right, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that it got Trump elected.
Hillary got Trump elected.

socialists (like Nagle) calling sjws liberals because they are focused on everything but class and sjws (like left-twitter) calling socialists liberals because they are pro-free-speech generally

Can we either come to a consensus on what is bad or good in liberalism, or just stop using that word as an insult?

Also the recent leaks from Breitbart have shown that GG was deliberately manufactured by right wing media in order to generate sympathy for reactionary politics among always-online virgin males. So she's right. It was always just another culture war.


The GG thing honestly seemed to out of this world to be real

They leaks don't show that GG was manufactured, they show it was pandered to after it picked up steam

I think what you are describing is can be "having a good normative life" (1) and fulfilling the darwinian goal (2). (1) as you admit is already decomposed as there is no "normative" anymore, no direction, and it doesn't really transcend yourself the way having offspring does.

(2) on the other hand is where I put focus, since it's completely lost in today's context. Even if you would have a good life, stoic attitude and have kids, there is no guarantee (in fact there are many indications to the opposite) that your kids will have a good life, or breed with good partners and eventually advance themselves into higher beings through generations, as we advanced from more primitive forms of life to the point where we are today (as it is internalized in us in our secular/profane mindsets).

I think you're misrepresenting her way more than I am. Not once do I remember her boiling it down to something as crude as "dumb" or even "incorrect".

They may not have a coherent vision if they don't have communism as their end-game, but there hardly is path to communism without it, unless you're relying on failure of liberal capitalism and that proposition seems to me more and more bleak by the day. So it may be technically correct, but there is a coherent reason for SJWism within marxist framework as a gradual step away from capitalism.

Yeah, Breitbart manufactured a domestic abuse story, convinced major gaming fora to censor all mentions of it, then forced dozens of gaming sites to attack their own audience. It's all a right-wing nazi conspiracy.

Or maybe they just stumbled a story and an audience and ran with it. Which do you think is more likely?

the former

Gamergate TL;DR for newfriends and any academics that might be lurking

wow gamergate sure sounds like a bunch of gay loser shit for fags

gamergate was rgay losers righteously going after despicable people and losing

How did this turn into a fascist circlejerk? How did it go from fighting censorship in vidya to whining about dead nazis in Wolfenstein?

Like I said, once it was framed as a culture war, it became an actual culture war. Initially it was about how an entire industry was made up of dirtbags. Gradually it shifted to be about the dirtbag's political leanings.


everyone with a brain looked at the systemic causes of what was happening and came to realize that arguing with an industry specifically designed to produce what everyone was upset about was a waste of time while everyone that gets their education from video games and Holla Forums jpegs stayed to complain about video games based off of things they learned from Holla Forums jpegs

sjws are so annoying that it provided the perfect oppurtunity for right wing grifters to rebrand as anti-sjw and recruit young men on the internet.
Look at how many anti-sjw "rational" youtubers started doing more overtly political videos around the time of gamergate where they moved on from attacking creationists and muslims to attacking feminists and "leftists" (read, liberals) just cause they were easy targets for mockery and a great source of patreonbux.

real SJWs, the kind they mock, are also a very small minority of all the IdPol movement, which is already a fringe movement everywhere but in some academies. Lately since they are going out of favor, we see a lot of these skepticks extremely starved for content.
It's pretty sad really.

SJWs engage in idpol, and idpol is right-wing. They get associated with liberals, because liberals are also pseudo-progressive, in the sense that replacing "White Man's Burden" with "White Man's Fault" is considered progress.

Liberals want hierarchy of people, and equality of ideas. Socialists want equality of people and hierarchy of ideas. SJWs want hierarchy of people and hierarchy of ideas. So associating them with liberals, rather than fascists, is actually a compliment. They are actually social fascists. It's all right-wing garbage.

Identity itself is a right wing thing, but what animates idpol is marxist in origin. The whole base of it is equating wealth and power in imperfect structure across groups through social change.

What you are saying is akin to claiming that taking sides of countries on the receiving end of "western imperialism" is engaging in nationalism, and therefore makes you right wing.

Wrong. Liberals essentially share all presuppositions communists. They will never admit being for hierarchy because they are not. They are merely learned into believing that communism doesn't work but virtually everyone that considers themselves of the left (and many of the contemporary liberal capitalistic soft-right that are not animated by religious ideals) will say "It would be nice if communism worked, but"…
That is another reason why you can be in academia and any mainstream position as communist. They view you as "utopian, well-intentioned" but overall "overly-idealistic". That is because they literally share all presuppositions as you do, but are socialized into "it was a valiant attempt but it doesn't work because magic".

That is why liberals are hated by everyone. They are stuck with beliefs they do nothing about, in total mismatch of their presuppositions, (lack of) theory and practice.

Leninism is the birthplace of "left-wing" SJWism - because Leninism is the right wing of communism. State-capitalism with a militarily-enforced welfare state.

hot take my friend

They will never admit being for hierarchy because they bury their head in the sand and pretend it doesn't exist. At the same time as they strive to diversify the very top, because if some of porkies oppressing you are disabled transexual non-whites, then it's okay.

Pushing the status quo, while being condescending to other ideas isn't "acceptance". Liberals fell for the "free exchange of ideas" meme. They don't believe in anything, so they tolerate everything. The second the communists or the fascists actually mobilize to enact change, liberals will oppose them.

I agree.
In case of market, they will claim it's voluntary therefore not-a-real-hierarchy, or not a hierarchy of any moral relevance etc. In case of state, they will use the proxy of democratic process, "they there because we elected them" and stuff like that. That is mere theoretical side of it, if we ignore the hierarchy which establishes itself within this system in practice. A lot of Marxists also suffer from this (in regards to democratic process) because they don't want to take it to it's logical conclusion. If you are against hierarchy then anarchy is the only fitting conclusion (and should be the logical manifestation of communism - at least it was real in my mind).

Correct in theory if you disregard group dynamics, but again in practice it ought to redistribute wealth to least economically privileged groups. If you view it from the right (which, I agree that "SJW"s to some degree share our perspective) and include group dynamics, it is not one single PoC that benefits because he will inevitably, through in-group preference start pushing "up" his own group, further helping those at the economic bottom (not to say that it further increases the support of minorities for socialism in general).

So overall, I think idpol is the to-date best way to further Marxism and socialism. Lucky thing for us, whites are reacting to this. In a way, I wish they would let it go further before reacting.

I disagree that they really hold to "free exchange of ideas" although they still hold to "free speech", especially in USA. They would be in a sort of perpetual dissonance mode, yes, if they ever bothered to think about anything in the first place.

What I'm getting at though is the fact that (insofar as they are capable of thinking in the first place) it is a lot easier for a communist than someone with a far right position to convince a liberal. Further to the left the response would be "yeah, b-but that's not practical", or "you're not realistic" where towards right wing positions they have a deep discomfort on a moral level. It is in my view because they share your base presuppositions and sensibilities while thinking that "they're pragmatic" or "living in the real world" or whatever cop-out they have to not build a consistent theory of anything in their mind.

The best illustration of this was when someone (I think Sargon) had a discussion with Destiny, brought up communism and said how it killed more people than Nazism and the response was (paraphrasing to the point) "it was different", "it's not the same morally because they did it with good intentions" etc.

So you might view it from Porky-Yes vs. Porky-No dichotomy and from that perspective it is true that both liberals and right wing positions in general are closer together than is the case with communists. But I would say that on base presuppositions of what is both important and what is moral liberals are much closer to communist and their acceptance of porky is merely caused by doublethink, or even more often, not giving it any thought in the first place.

There is 0% Marxist about SJW shit. No one who's read a single page of Marx would ever come away thinking communism dictates 27 genders. A lot of Marx's and his contemporary writers critique capitalism for destroying families and crushing real culture with artificial cooperate "culture". I don't know why you aut-right loons keep trying to pin everything you don't like with "Marxism".

It's crazy that we got big enough that there are people here not from the migration. I keep forgetting we're like 3 years old now, tempus fugit.

Considering Marx wants to destroy the traditional family and cultures too, that's not something to be proud of.

And regarding feminism:

I was focusing mostly on race relations, but alright we can do this too.

How many genders there are is arbitrary even in SJ ethos. What is relevant that gender identity itself is deconstructed as not to assign "gender roles" which is the concrete beginning of right-wing identity, hierarchy and counter to tabula rasa arguments.

All these trash bags from the left who trashtalk Gamergate are outsiders, and they will never understand GG and why it became such a big movement.

You haven't come across many modern MLs then I assume. Maoists are especially bad.

"waah femiwism :'("

Idpol rejects egalitarianism and universalism, and pushes essentialist bullshit. It is directly opposed to socialism, and needs to be exterminated. It breeds more idpol, so white nationalism starts to rise as well. It also needs to be exterminated.

most people here arrived in the last 18 months from 4chan or reddit (mostly reddit)

So MLs is just the Holla Forums buzzword for anything you don't like?

Why don't you go ask B.O.?

I was an /a/non that followed gamergay from the beginning. I was also a leftist long before any of it. Gamergay was shit and I'm glad moot banned discussion of it. I only wish it had been stopped earlier before it ruined what little value 4chan still had at the time. Fuck you faggots.

Will 4chan ever recover?

Nagle shares almost nothing in common with feminist activists except for being a woman, but thanks for letting us all know you're a retard up front

jfc are all of you gigantic pseuds or just the ones that come here?

So I actually sat through this and I don't get what her point is. She is extremly hung up on definitions (alt-right, alt-lite, white nationalists etc.) so I don't see what information I'm supposed to get out of this. I think analyzing what filterbubble presupposes that filterbubble is pointless, because they are all steming from a similar phenomenon, it's just different levels of extremism that correlate with your social adjustment. Somebody who casually surfing political spheres on the Internet might barely be alt-lite, somebody who is unemployed and deeply isolated might be a full on Not Socialist from Holla Forums. So I think it's not really the ideology that creates these spaces but rather the level of alienation.

I didn't understand why everyone seemed to agree.

I'd expect a better argument from a leftcom

see mods, this is why the 200 chars thing is dumb

Do you have the poll he is talking about in the second clip?

Pic related

the mating call of the dipshit

/r/ChapoTrapHouse likes parental guidelines or something? I don't understand.

Traditional family used to mean extended family. Nuclear families being the bed rock social institution is capitalist cuckholdry. Mannerbunds are more important.

Liberals are whigs, they share the same delusion as communists, in that history is a progressive process.

wordfilter for t r i g g e r w a r n i n g

poor boi

That one is quite appropriate since parental guidelines were implemented by moral panicking religious busybodies just like the people implementing the new parental guidelines lol.

More vids:

Found the SJW

SJW shit was always a fucking fad. It was destined to die off like Emos and Hipsters, and probably would've sooner if GG didn't give them a boogeyman to fight.

I have yet to see evidence they are dying. SJWs, pro-feminists etc control virtually all left online social media space. They've moved out of their containment site: Tumblr, etc etc

SJWs are really just a reflection of mainstream liberal attitudes toward gender: screaming how sexually fluid *female* sexuality is as if we didn't know, LGBT right, hating male virgins, hating autistic men, hating poor men, etc etc

There is the cookie cutter goal of marry a grill raise kid get loan work die. And then there is that deplorable spot between failing at "life" and putting ideology in the trash and doing your own thing without bothering with the hive narrative.

it's you

Actually kind of cute now

Look who's upset at /ourgirl/ this time. It's funny how easy it is to upset these guys by implying they have overlap with the alt-right. She wasn't even critical of Peterson in the article.