Convince me the Holocaust happened

ATTENTION: I'M OPEN TO HAVING MY MIND CHANGED

Hi Holla Forums, Holla Forumslack here. I've spent too much time on Holla Forums and I'm beginning to question the Holocaust. The revisionist arguments I've seen are pics related, claims that Ellie Weisel fabricated some of his stories, claims that the ovens couldn't burn the bodies fast enough, census data of Jews from 1930-1950, claims that the gas chambers couldn't have held in the Zyklon B, and many more.

GIVE ME COUNTER ARGUMENTS

It's not like I want to believe the Holocaust didn't happen, but what I've seen has caused me to doubt.

Other urls found in this thread:

imgur.com/a/725A7
holohoax101.org/
siraaronrichards.imgur.com/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Frank
jewishvirtuallibrary.org/how-to-refute-holocaust-denial#
holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/04/lying-about-elie-wiesel.html
hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab6-open-air-burning/
nodisinfo.com/43686/
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderkommando_photographs
phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml
holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.html#redcrossstats
lfpress.com/2016/03/29/smell-of-burning-bodies-unbearable-auschwitz-survivor-tells-nazi-trials
phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/
nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/cryptologic-quarterly/assets/files/sigint_and_the_holocaust.pdf
nsa.gov/about/cryptologic-heritage/historical-figures-publications/publications/wwii/assets/files/eavesdropping.pdf
google.com/search?q=wooden doors gas chamber&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7y-HawqvXAhWJbiYKHUDtBnsQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=612
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Belgium
i.imgur.com/mNujjqN.gifv
rationalwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_Crisis
web.archive.org/web/20080510215232/http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/new/index.php?language=EN&tryb=stale&id=672
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2443817/Former-prisoner-war-96-remembers-playing-Auschwitz-football-league-return-Nazi-death-camp.html
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4421532/Files-reveal-Allied-forces-knew-Holocaust-YEARS.html
historytoday.com/barbara-rogers/auschwitz-and-british
orientalreview.org/2015/01/21/who-is-going-to-auschwitz/
sttpml.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/BAZO.pdf
auschwitz.org/en/museum/news/70th-anniversary-of-the-sonderkommando-revolt,1107.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Sobolewski
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Fritzsch#cite_note-ARC-1
books.google.com/books/about/Hitler_s_Jewish_Soldiers.html?id=T-ptAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y&hl=en
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Spanner
youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3F695D99C91FC6F7
codoh.com/library/
holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?author_id=15
ny.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19570312_0041130.NY.htm/qx
archive.fo/yuwjD
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nationalizations_by_country
counterpunch.org/2016/07/27/rwanda-the-clinton-dynasty-and-the-case-of-dr-leopold-munyakazi/
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

who cares

I hate to break it to you, but if you've been made to doubt the holocaust, you can probably be made to believe anything.

I'd unplug for a while if I were you before your brain turns into literal fried egg

The evidence it happened is overwhelming, the concentration camp structures still exist, accounts from german officials, documents that weren't burned. Are you legitimately retarded?

The only people who care about the Holocaust are Jews. There are more important things to discuss than some spooky fashie boogeyman from 100 years ago.

You could literally just google 'Anne Frank ballpoint pen' and it would tell you that her father copied out the diary to edit it before it was published. I mean christ.

This.

t. brainlet

Outright holocaust denialism is a really hard position to take, most serious anti-semites don't even take it that far. There's a crazy amount of evidence that it happened tbh, and if you don't want to be laughed at try to at least be a holocaust minimizer instead or whatever. I don't really give a shit what some rando on the internet believes tho, do you OP.

I wouldn't be surprised Ellie Weisel made up some of his shit, it was required reading for us in 9th grade. Still doesn't matter, people will use tragic events to their advantage if they have the balls to do it. Census datas never hit the right numbers ever especially right after the holocaust, and different groups will produce different results in their statistics. The oven one was disproved pretty easy, the user who did that post on statistical data of how long bodies burn used faulty shit. Gas chambers not holding in Zyklon B doesn't matter whatsoever really, the Nazis could not have the material set up to be singly gassing people, or spend massive amounts of money just to genocide them safer. The rooms were enough to keep them in, and to disperse the gas after enough time had passed.

Please refer to this massive album disproving many Holla Forumslack ideas of the holocaust.

imgur.com/a/725A7

Orchestrating such a coordinated and consistent distortion of the truth on such a scale is practically impossible, especially for a group of people so reviled by the common man. The fact that we have millions of stories and accounts from people who participated in WWII align makes me doubt the wool was pulled over my eyes.

The story is too creative for the Jews to have just come up with anyway.

Did whites kill natives?
Did whites enslave blacks?
Are modern whites still racist?
If so then why wouldn't they be savage enough to kill millions of innocent Jews?
It's basic logic Holla Forums but coming from you, I expect none.

To be fair there's been groups other than white people to do awful shit, user. Idk why you're focusing on just white people, sounds like some idpol baiting type shit to me.

Yes but never on the same scale as whites.

Who gives a shit really?
What's your obsession with the Holocaust and the minutiae of gassing people and burning bodies in ovens? I understand it matters a lot to the Jewish porkies, especially insofar as it relates to the uprooting of the """market-dominant minority""" they belong to, and I admit that a portion of leftist academics saw it as particularly significant and horrifying event, but why should you or I care about its historicity?
The Nazis committed enough atrocities to damn themselves a hundred times over. Look at the utter barbarism with which they treated slavs in the territories they designated as their Lebensraum. Look at their so-called "anti-partisan activities" that even revisionists don't bother denying. They were worse than ISIS. Hell, if you go ahead and deny every single atrocity they committed you're stuck with the absurd conclusion that they forced Germany and Poland to accept millions of criminal refugees from all over Europe and put them in holiday camps with free movie theaters and swimming pools. Really, just abandon this nonsense and find something more relevant to the present to focus on.

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You've let too many artifact-ridden .jpgs rot your brain.

whites just did all the killing the most recently

and they're viewed as more "moral"

so white crime gets magnified

it's why everyone was so surprised by the Holocaust; no one thought that the ultra civilized Germans would behave like the ravenous packs of thoughtless Congolese apes underneath a warlord, but they did

To be fair the Congolese wouldn't be dumb enough to create extensive records of their genocide :^)

tbh I think they just threw jews into mass graves more often than burning jews

esp when allies started pushing towards germany in 1944

lmao africans are actually smart as fuck

It's the other way round, the camps were created due to the psychological impact of mass killing on the German military.

The goal was systematic extermination. Ofc they'd keep records, they wanted to eliminate Jews entirely. They even shipped people in to have them killed.

Look pal all I'm saying is the Hutu killed 1 million Tutsis in 3 months at a fraction of the cost of the Holocaust and barely any of them got punished :^)

My Grandfather was there when they fucking liberated those fucking camps you fucking autist, stop posting on Holla Forums and join the real world.

nice try

Gee so it's not so hard to kill millions of people after all, huh. And no shit they didn't get punished, no one powerful had a stake in Tutsis or punishing the Hutu.

OP here. Thought I'd clarify a few things:

I'm not denying that the Nazis imprisoned a lot of people in concentration camps where a lot of people died. However, there are a few things I'm dubious about, namely the gas chambers, the crematoriums, and the 6 million figure.

Nice meme, there weren’t even 1 million Tutsis in the country, Paul Kagame and his band of invading fascist creeps who dreamt of aristocratic Restoration were the real criminals of the so-called Rwandan genocide. Even their Western defenders begrudgingly admit they’ve been implicated in the murder of millions of Congolese, massacres thousands of civilian war refugees and have built a totalitarian police state with the license the international community had given them.

It's all bullshit.

holohoax101.org/

The survivor stories are so bad that they are laughable.

There isn't one autopsy of a "Gassed" Jew.

What's the point then of going off and making this autistic thread then. The point of holocaust is not some exact figure, or method, but the fact that there were systemic attempts to destroy certain sectors of the population based on arbitrary characteristics.

Yeah okay in fairness the number is '500k - 1m', that's why you don't keep extensive records of genocide lol.

The balance of evidence clearly shows that the civil war/genocide was sparked by the Interahamwe. I'm sure that Paul Kagame is not as innocent as his side makes out but nobody else had any interest in stopping the massacre, clearly.

are you for real?

There were pictures taken with every camp liberated, there were mass graves uncovered.

Not_dis_shitto_agen.png

There were starved Germans in Allied camps. Your point? There were mass graves on both sides. Your point?


There was no food and a typhus epidemic.

Read Edward S. Herman’s “Enduring Lies, The Rwandan Genocide in The Propganda System, 20 years Later” it tears the official narrative to fucking shreds.

Also a recent BBC documentary revealed the fact that the American demographer granted the greatest access to state records to any researcher by the Kagame regime believes that the majority of that 1 million number was Hutu and not Tutsi.

And so, then comes the question of who killed all those Hutu? Did they kill themselves or were they killed by Kagame’s forces who were armed, trained and backed by the US.

No there wasn't. The Holocaust has been used for mass political purposes wrongly be Jews.

It's illegals in dozens of countries to even ask questions.

There's anyone's proof that it's bullshit.

This OP, your main points that you find dubious matter little. While Holla Forums goes on and on about how Jews are purposefully skewing ideas about the Holocaust in their favor (mainly blowing out of proportion small tidbits that seem out of place), the real fact of the matter is that the nat socs straight up murdered millions, maybe not six million, Jews out of what? Hatred of Jewish bankers? Then why did he destroy basically every poor Jew there was, and take backing for his "labour" backed currency with loans from big Jewish capitalist bankers? Seriously, Hitler was one fucked up dude and there is no backing of him in any sense of the way except for love for the Volk/tradition, and this puts you in dire straits factually.

For starters, that's an approximation.

Regardless, of whether or not the death toll can be disputed by Holocaust deniers it is essentially the question of WHY these people died that is the problem at least with me personally. Many of them died because they were Jews. Not even rich banker porky Jews that are the target of Nazi propaganda, but the farmer, the factory worker, the shoemaker that happens to be a Jew. As communists, it is not a question of how many, but WHY and was there any good that came out of it? In the end, what do you think these deaths achieved?

That's not proof.

Perhaps. Doesn't make it not real, though.


Dumb laws, but so what?

Seriously, prove that they didn't. I posted a massive album earlier that disproves like 50 infographics used on Holla Forums all the fucking time, especially the ones about the amount of people who died.

Here it fucking is again, READ IT YOU BRAINDEAD MORON
imgur.com/a/725A7
imgur.com/a/725A7
imgur.com/a/725A7
imgur.com/a/725A7
imgur.com/a/725A7

Not denying it happened but it was probably exaggerated. If it was exaggerated we'd better set the record straight now.

Not necessarily. It does raise suspicions, but it could also be because they're afraid of the consequences of denial.

Here's the thing OP, coming to leftpol for intelligent solutions is just a bad idea. I happened to just see your post on the index.

I'm somewhat in the same boat. The thing is the holocaust did and didn't happen, it depends on what you mean by "The holocaust".

Is what we know of the holocaust 100% true and accurate? Definitely not. Not only is our science and history flawed, but on top of that, history is written by the winners.

Did the germans have an extreme hatred for the jewish race? definitely. You only need to watch a few minutes of some hitler speeches to be convinced of this.

Did the germans kill millions of jews?
I'd say probably. I do think the number is often exaggerated, but I have no way of really knowing how many were killed. In fact, no one does. I have seen the "but the almanac shows no decline in jewish population" argument. The almanac lags behind, if you look into the future, there is a year where the number is decreased by almost exactly 6 million.

Did the germans use Zyklon B?
I don't know. I can't be sure of all the methods they have killed the jews with, someone else will have better answers to this question. I do know that many jews made up basically bullshit nightmare stories which they told for attention/sympathy, but there were definitely many gruesome murders. You can tell by how starved they are in a ton of pictures that the Germans did not have much regard for their lives. It wasn't some innocent "work camp"

I can't vouch for the validity of anything found here, but there's probably some useful info
siraaronrichards.imgur.com/

What you are not being told though, is how much worse the Jewish Soviets were at the time. The genocide they committed against white christians was every bit as bad as the holocaust, and I suspect it has a lot to do with why the germans were so ready to exterminate the jews.

This doesnt mean the holocaust was desireable or acceptable, but I think it serves a good warning as to the inevitable chaos/genocide that will happen when lefties go unchecked.

Socialism is for psychopaths. Whether its the "I love diversity" socialists or the "capitalism is a kike trick" socialists.

No you're not.

I disagree. If anything I'd say that the 6 million figure is too low since it doesn't account for the non-jews who died in the Holocaust as well.
Well that's actually a bit of a problem since the ones who advocate for Holocaust revisionism are generally also pretty anti-Jew (and yes, I mean anti-Jew, not anti-Zionist; they're two completely different things)

are historians jews?

The burden of proof is on you.

Well, fasicist movements killed tons of white (largely Christian) Europeans during the mid-20th century, so I think the masses have been somewhat reluctant to challenge those laws. Likewise, the authorities in the Western countries doubled down on their support for Zionism during the Cold War and thus striking down those laws was not largely in their interest. They could still spread hate to divide workers even without them.

The Zionists even collaborated with the Nazis so it isn’t at all surprising that the supposedly “deeply anti-Semitic” European countries that Zionist writers screech about are actually in league with Zionism and vice-versa. Zionism is a tool of world capitalism and these supposed laws against “denial” and outright Nazism is very cleverly twisted into support for the capitalist order.

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Everything is used for political purposes you idiot, get over it. Every tragedy is politicized, every war is turned into talking points.

States want to have control over their populations, that's nothing new.

wew

Confirmed edgy teenager.

which ones

proofs

I'd rather have Holla Forumsution on this board rather than christcucks.

OP's infographic is SHOCKINGLY full of shit.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anne_Frank

We gave you proof, now read it and assess it. Tell us what you think rather than spam.

Jews made up a very small minority of the Bolsheviks and were often discriminated against.
where are da proofs billy?
Capitalism literally encourages psychopathy.

In 1981, the Netherlands State Institute for War Documentation submitted Anne Frank's handwritten diaries to the Dutch State Forensic Science Laboratory of the Ministry of Justice to determine their authenticity. The State Forensic Science Laboratory examined the materials used – the ink, paper, glue, etc. – and the handwriting and issued a report of some 270 pages:

The report of the State Forensic Science Laboratory has convincingly demonstrated that both versions of the diary of Anne Frank were written by her in the years 1942 to 1944. The allegations that the diary was the work of someone else (after the war or otherwise) are thus conclusively refuted.

jewishvirtuallibrary.org/how-to-refute-holocaust-denial#

holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/04/lying-about-elie-wiesel.html

The evidence shows that open-air burning pits were used at Auschwitz-Birkenau when the cremation ovens were not able to meet the demand. There is German perpetrator and survivor eyewitness evidence about the use of open-air burning pits. Further, aerial and ground photographs document the use of open-air burning pits beyond any doubt.

hdot.org/debunking-denial/ab6-open-air-burning/

I'm not a christcuck, but I'm a bit too intelligent to waste my time arguing with people who waste their time browsing leftypol.

Obviously, I made an exception for OP.

Jews cry more about Egyptian slavery than the Holocaust, only Holla Forums cares about it because they're unironic Nazis.

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no source jpegs on an anime imageboard arent a historical source

Is your last name Macron by any chance?

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It's fake just like you "Holocaust".

Nuremberg Law defined who was or wasn't a Jew by different criteria than census counts or Rabbinical Law.

Plenty of people who never considered themselves to be Jewish where killed.

Yet Jews were the majority of the bolshevik elite.

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See , brainlet.

It's sourced. So many lies.

Why do Holla Forumstards put so much effort into denying the holocaust while still propagating the extermination of jews?

but

doesnt even make a coherent point.

You do realize that when you die and they cremate you your body is not burnt with 50 other bodies, right?

lmao

According to the actual records 4,800 bodies were cremated in one day, not one hour. Even the comparison to modern ovens is fallacious as by regulation you can only burn one body at a time while the germans were quite willing to burn 4 of 5 at a time.

why would I waste time arguing with you?
do you think your posting style projects to strangers "I'm a person worth talking to" ?

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Lmao, it's not properly sourced. Real sources give page numbers, and contextualize the information. Also, it's kind of retarded that each of the bars gets it's percentage from an entirely different source.

pffft

the dumbest possible position
indeed, if you are a holocaust denier, why didn't the Germans kill their hated Jewish enemy? They had the ideology and capacity, both technical and inhumane to do so.

it is valuable to tap into holocaust sympathy, even afterwards. You can release pictures tell a story etc, taking advantage of the situation. You might fabricate something like this if that was your intention.


This wouldnt necessarily mean the holocaust didn't happen.

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Another source.

nodisinfo.com/43686/

Zyklon B is highly explosive in the concentrations needed to kill that many people.

Lmao, how much do you want to bet that Holla Forums would take this autistic shit seriously.

the industry around the holocaust is pure capitalist fun.

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You can't do that. Learn some science for fuck's sake.

why does it even matter whether it happened or not for current day politics?

Devote your few brain cells on more important things. If you're implying that the Holocaust happening makes isreal unquestionable, we don't believe that

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There, it's sourced!

Explain how only one person can be burned in an oven at a time. Please.

Lol Grover Furr literally tore that book to shreds. I’m surprised Snyder has any kind of academic standing after Furr showed the numerous lies that Snyder told in full-knowledge in addition to his mistranslations and factual errors despite having a team of graduate students to help him and help from the Victims of Communism foundation.

Three of the sources named in the image are outright right-wing propaganda from sourced from works published prior before WWII. I’m sure none of that is biased,right? One of the sources is a literal newspaper column from 1918 lmao

Wow, really? someone mioght get hurt then.

So your argument is "poltards"

I guess it's too bad that wasn't the only photo?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonderkommando_photographs

I'm reading the links posted right now

Sure you can once you've reduced people down to a skeleton.

Why do you care OP? Why do you ignore this vital question?

None of the lights were explosion proof.

None of the rooms were leak proof.

It wouldn't be in the guards' best interest to have something that's dangerous to the person on the giving end

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I guess the soviets never forged photos

ITT: obscene enjoyment

Tbh I’m a long-time Holla Forumsetarian and I don’t think this a good answer. People are naturally curious, you don’t even have to believe the Holocaust has much bearing on modern politics to be interested in it from a historical perspective.

an antisemite fiction writer isnt a source. he has a hate boner for jews, and most of his numbers on soviet casualties are made up.

So you deny the Soviet Holocaust.

The curiosity Holla Forumstards display in regards to the holocaust is pathological.

it's hardly even an argument
he asked for sources and you start going on about how you're "to intelligent"
serioo

Wouldn't take make for an actual argument if the rooms couldn't hold gas rather han other obscure excuses?

Oh well if the guards might get hurt handling dangerous material then i guess it was just nothing, they wouldn't want anyone to get hurt.

But that's fucking wrong, retard. Hydrogen cyanide is toxic in extremely small quantities, and it can be easily stabilized. Furthermore the gas is lighter than air and rapidly disperses unless released in a confined space. Hydrogen cyanide isn't exactly a complex molecule.

Not to mention the shower drains and escape hatches found in the room.. you know the kind you dont want explosive gases to end up in

The mere fact the gas is also lighter than air means the non sealed drop shafts would have gassed everyone dropping the pellets in.

which was?

They burned the bodies in massive pits. Look up the Sonderkommando.

Dat flashpoint

Wow, good thing they were using a relatively dilute form of hydrogen cyanide then, huh?

Why do they always show the individual sized cremation chambers then?

I thought I had made it clear I don't have intentions of wasting my time arguing with socialists and communists. I don't intend on making any argument.

If you hadn't noticed, before even giving me a chance to answer what would be his initial questions, he calls me a "christcuck". This is clearly intended to irritate me, and on top of it is projecting something completely delusional. I am an atheist, or agnostic. It really depends on what someone means by "god".

I have come here a few times before. I know that it would be a waste of time to argue with the lefists that browse here, from experience. Never have I found "oh, thats an interesting perspective" its always the same childish attitude which ultimately breaks down into them running out of arguments and slowly their posts become more heavily condensed with insults. Its just not worth my time. Honestly, its worse than arguing with nazis on pol. At least they have something new/entertaining to say sometimes.

Bodies don't burn like that in pits.

Except at that level for that many people…

Also considering its lighter than air it would have gassed literally everyone standing over the vents.

Also where are the blue stains on the walls?

You do realise it leaves blue stains on everything, right?

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maybe because pits don't leave behind physical structures

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maybe because the chambers went below? problem solving pol

Holy shit, you're fucking retarded, aren't you? Do you understand the concept of a gas chamber, right? There's holes that the Zyklon went into and there's vents to keep people outside the chamber from getting gassed. Nazis were pretty retarded a lot of different ways, but they were decent engineers to say the least. Lmao

Because a picture of a crematorium has a lot of impact.

Deniers like to implicate the International Red Cross in their holocaust denial

This next section will deal with the numerical extent of the holocaust, the mass graves and medical horrors that are part of it, and includes genocide via Einsatzgruppen and Gas Vans.

But first we will begin by debunking supposed "official records" that state very few by comparison, died.

One denier gambit is the claim that the International Red Cross got to visit all concentration and extermination camps, recorded all those that died there, and their numbers only tally up to a low six figure amount. Apart from Theresienstadt, the Potemkin village of Nazi Germany specifically built for propaganda purposes, the IRC was, in fact, not allowed proper and complete access to concentration camps, nevermind the extermination camps.

Pic related shows a poorly made neo-Nazi infographic showing a widely circulated scan of what is supposed to be a purported letter from the Bad Arolsen International Tracing Service from 1979, addressed to a certain "Herr", a Mr.

That this is a letter in German with English words thrown in should already raise the alarm, but we'll continue anyway: the document lists only registered deaths ("beurkundete Sterbefälle") at some Nazi concentration camps. The vast majority of people who died at the death camps were never registered since they didn't enter the camp (e.g. at Auschwitz, see my article about the Auschwitz death books for more) and were marched on immediately to the gas chambers if they failed the Selektion, or in the case of the AR camps, weren't meant to be absorbed into the camp in the first place. So this Bad Arolsen letter and similar correspondence is frequently misrepresented as the absolute death toll of the Holocaust by deniers and attributed to the Red Cross.

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Interesting that you base this on one photo and not on any other evidence. Also interesting that no one at auschwtiz mentions the horrible porkish smell a huge body bonfire creates… the kind of smell that would permeate the camp around the clock.

The Nazis disagree.

Whataboutism.

haha wtf it was more than 70 years ago you absolute drooling retard

Jesus fucking christ you people are stupid

It was built by the Soviets in 1947!

Who are you quoting? Another bullshitting "survivor"?

Holes on Krema I's roof, and their correspondence to the building's interior
Let's look at the bottom part of the above image first. What we see here, is Eric Hunt's 3D model of roughly half of Krema I. It covers (from left to right) the "storage for spare gratings" room, the wash room, the gas chamber, and the vestibule.

When Krema I was partially reconstructed in 1947, 4 interior walls were knocked down (2nd, 3rd, 4th and 5th from left to right). The Soviets made two mistakes: one, knocking down the 2nd wall, as this was the actual gas chamber wall rather than the 1st (which is the wall between the store room and the wash room where a wooden door is located). And the second "oddity" (I wouldn't say mistake) they made is leave the vestibule to the right intact, as this is not on the 1942 blueprint and was part of the efforts (along with the 3rd, 4th and 5th interior wall that are also missing on the blueprint) of the Nazis to convert the building into an air-raid shelter with the additional walls reinforcing structural integrity.

Holocaust deniers say, that if you leave the first two walls (from left to right) intact and remove the 3rd, 4th and 5th wall as well as the vestibule to get the original gas chamber configuration, you end up with holes in the ceiling that are not spaced out properly (they are if you knock down the 2nd wall and consider the 1st wall as the gas chamber wall, i.e. the way the interior looks today, but which is false). They tout this as proof that these holes were not placed there by the Germans and instead are a Soviet invention, with the Soviets' dumb mistake of knocking down one wall too many interior walls leading to them spacing out the holes wrongly, and therefore getting caught by our revisionist heroes some decades later.

This conclusion deniers make would indeed have made sense IF one of the holes today were to be found OUTSIDE the borders of the morgue that ended up being the gas chamber - except that isn't the case. What we have instead, are all four holes located exactly on the morgue roof, except they aren't as symmetrically spaced as people suffering from Obsessive-compulsive Disorder would like them to have been.

Now while I personally am leaning toward a 3-hole configuration having been the historical case, the 4-hole configuration is still anything but far-fetched. Let me explain: this asymmetry makes sense, given that the Krema I gas chamber is the only gas chamber in the entire Auschwitz-Birkenau camp complex to have had two gas chamber doors in close proximity to each other: placing an additional zyklon hole close to the two doors would ensure higher initial levels of HCN lethality near said doors to prevent the trapped from trying to break these open.

I do not try to exculpate the Soviets from their shoddy reconstruction work, however. Because knocking down the original gas chamber wall while leaving the vestibule intact, and making a wrong entrance to the crematorium that does not align with the tracks anymore is shoddy restoration work indeed.

Now let's take a look at the roof. There's a whole bunch of stuff here, so bear with me. We have two smaller chimneys above the crematorium section of the building. And of course the 4 zyklon-b inlet holes poking through the roof and protected from the elements by square-shaped wooden covers (for a closeup, see top right). We also have two smaller chimneys in between (3rd row of chimneys going away from us from left, in the centre top of the above image).

The Nazis sealed up the vents when they converted the building to the air-raid shelter, and the smoothness of the roof indicates the Soviets didn't miss these and drill in the wrong place. The only question then, is if the Soviets drilled too many holes, as eyewitness accounts indeed vary regarding the exact number of zyklon-b vents on the roof of Krema I. There definitely were two, three is a reasonable estimate, though four is a bit less likely. Given that the gas chamber of Krema I is much smaller than that of e.g. Krema II or III in Birkenau (and those used to have 4 inlet holes each, as I will show air photos indicating this later on), I do agree that 4 holes on Krema I's roof seems a bit much.

Interesting to note no one has yet addressed the staining, the 0°F flashpoint, the fact the "chambers" are not airtight, that the gas would have killed anyone over the drop shafts at the concentrations needed to kill that many people, the fact that the gas would have seeped into drains and literally any ingition source would have light the entire place up like an xmas tree (read: any lightbulbs in the building).

Nobody wants you here, please never come back.

...

Interesting no one has addressed the fact that you think smells will stick around for 70 fucking years.

the only chance any legitimate researchers have of actually seeing the holocaust was way after the holocaust actually occured and the camps were abandonned. The camp building would've deteriorated to the point that they would appear to not be perfect.

I think I've provided better posts to show OP what he needed to see than anyone else here. I added some gold to your shit. I don't have much more to contribute though, so I'll leave.

user? you havent answered me yet? which soviet holocaust?

this is just sad Holla Forums

Oh shit, except no one said it would, but everyone would have smelled like burning, rotten pork around the clock at the fucking time.

Fuck me, youre a real special case, arent you.

I thought you shitheads were all about yay science?

The formation of Prussian blue on the walls of gas chambers on bricks isn't something you'd see unless you had highly concentrated hydrogen cyanide, which wasn't the case in most chambers. Then there's also the fact that 70 years of wear and restorations would likely remove most of the color if there was any in the first place. Luckily we have ways of detecting this kind of stuff using science! phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/chemistry/iffr/report.shtml

Yeah steel doors and walls often deteriorate into wooden doors and unsraled brick over time.

Its a common phenomenon

holocaustcontroversies.blogspot.com/2017/05/rebutting-twitter-denial-most-popular.html#redcrossstats

Drop the jewish victims, Holla Forums doesn't have any explications for the millions of slavs who died, lebensraum and the hunger plan and the millions of soviet POWs who were first to be gassed

lfpress.com/2016/03/29/smell-of-burning-bodies-unbearable-auschwitz-survivor-tells-nazi-trials

...

Ever hear of gasmasks?

lmao why dont you go hunting chemtrails or magic drinking water estrogens or something

So what you are saying is the soviets went and chipped away literally every possible bit of evidence of the gas chamber before the trial took place?

I mean thats pretty amazing

You ever considered the possibility that the Nazis may have attempted to destroy the evidence of their crimes?

Did you not read the article I linked you? There's actually a lot of evidence, brainlet.

Its about as likely as 6 million jews being herded into gas chambers.

You're mentally ill, seek help.

6 million died, not necessarily through gas chambers. at least try to pretend youre historically literate

...

source pls, ill even take one of your memes at this point

Your original post is just your hot opinions that the holocaust happened (without source) but that what some secret jewish soviet cabal did was worse (without source), then getting butthurt when evil gommies call you on it.

Nice post retard, good riddance.

phdn.org/archives/holocaust-history.org/auschwitz/body-disposal/

Interesting that even though allies had cracked the enigma and were in fact monitoring auschwitz, they never once uncovered any reference to extermination .

Do you understand the logistics involved in a) performing such a monumental task
b) how little evidence there is that this happened like we are told c) that there is no way they were that efficient as to destroy evidence, and also be that shoddy in construction of a massive conveyor belt style extermination project.

Who gives a shit about the jews how about the 20 million russian civilians killed by german criminal actions on the eastern front
Isn't something a warcriminal would decree right at the start of a huge invasion is it? No nazis were gud bois dey dindu nuffin.

Source?

look again faggot.

Im glad you owned up to it.

Now when you are happy to continue with the adults, let me know.

Here you go

imgur.com/a/725A7

This. And also don't forget about the Nazi's indiscriminate bombing of civilian targets!

Except there is an enormous fucking amount of evidence right before your eyes. You just discard all of it because anything not in line with your viewpoint was manufactured up by le ebil jews.

Why do Holla Forumsacks get so quiet when you ask them for an actual source that isn't a website like "holohoax.virus"?

Oh man, this is sweet.

nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/cryptologic-quarterly/assets/files/sigint_and_the_holocaust.pdf

Lol yeah, no.

Did people get executed? Sure.

Were there concentration camps? Yes. There were also internment camps where people were executed.

I mean I'm just providing you context. Factual context.

Gassings on a mass scale are not proven.

Many of the stories about the camps have been falsified by conartists for money and fame.

See

See….

It fucking happened you gos damn Holla Forumsyp

leftists shouldn't accept the holocaust at face value imo

Yeah nothing like the millions of people stalin would kill on a regular basis.

Nah stalin didnt forge evidence and doctor photos.

Yeah the gulags were actually pretty alright.

I mean finland was better off as a communist shithole.

I mean stalin was only going to invade 2 weeks later anyway.

I mean hitler only sent several offers for a peace treaty to everyone but the russians.

I mean you know its all good right?

Holocaust deniers once again proving that 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧thinking for yourself🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 should be punishable by death

whataboutism isnt a defense for the holocaust friend

Nice strawmen, faggot.

Which is why all of you should stop doing it.

How about a better source that takes declassified info into account and contextualizes it? nsa.gov/about/cryptologic-heritage/historical-figures-publications/publications/wwii/assets/files/eavesdropping.pdf

"But what about the other side" isnt an argument Holla Forumsyp try again

Those poor russians.

I mean evil german civilians were just asking to be bombed in the middle of the night completely unexpectedly because well… they werent on board with that sweet sweet communist europe train.

Biggest fucking strawman I've seen, only the staunchest of ☭TANKIE☭s defend Stalin for the innocents that died in his way.

THE HOLOCAUST FUCKING HAPPENED, AND MILLIONS DIED FOR IT

Common knowledge. The fucking Crown declared that "truth is no defense".

IT DIDNT HAPPEN, BUT IT WILL

Read the thread of the reply fuckface.

...

first, not an argument, second, half of leftypol hates stalin already, and finally this shitpost doesn't argue in favor of your initial holohoax narrative, it just shows everybody you're mad.

They unironically did. Sin demands blood.

...

Holla Forums in a post, straight up denial of thousands of factoids, all in the name of… making it happen again?

Prove it. Because even the allies intelligence agencies sure couldnt.

nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/cryptologic-quarterly/assets/files/sigint_and_the_holocaust.pdf

I mean they had evidence of shootings and executions and shit… but the nazis just thought talking about gassing was just not done in polite genocidal programs.

The biggest atrocity of the twentieth century is that Stalin didn't get to personally rape any fascist pussy

google.com/search?q=wooden doors gas chamber&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj7y-HawqvXAhWJbiYKHUDtBnsQ_AUICigB&biw=1366&bih=612

Everything you write makes me think your knowledge off ww2 conistists of high school- level understanding with some cherry picked points of some cherry picked wikipedia articles.


GERMANY WAS INNOCENT HE A GOOD BOI HE DINDU NUFFIN THE COMMUNIST CZECHS ATTACKED HIM

Then Im glad every communist that ended up being killed by their own leader deserved their fate too.

Also, incidentally, Holla Forums are NOT nazis!

You seem mad.

Now go back to ww1 and pre ww1 and ask yourselves whether or not it was worth blaming germany for a war the serbs started?

stop changing the subject, this thread is about the holocaust, not what 20th century socialist leaders did

...

Shocking.

I don't know what you're doing bringing up ww1 all of sudden however but damn you know fuck all.

a war that germany would win if they weren't bloodthirsty retards with delusions of grandeur that invade neutral countries.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_of_Belgium

they did.

pic related is pol, collecting proofds
i.imgur.com/mNujjqN.gifv

yes

Also stop changing the subject this is about you getting BTFO on your stupid holacuast/german atrocities denial

An awful lot of Holla Forums seems to pride themselves on fighting the establishment right up until the establisments programming sets in.

Its pretty funny.

The holocaust DID happen, but it was only roughly 300k killed

They're so intellectually helpless I almost feel sorry for them.

it's called the capitalist establishment

not the establishment for "Historical Review" :^)

not an argument either buddy
here, ill help you out on what is and isnt an argument.
rationalwiki.org/wiki/Main_Page

An awful lot of Holla Forumstards like to make shitty vague statements when they're backed up against a corner and have nothing to say

Agreed to be honest, the knee-jerk reaction of many anons here suggests a really big presence of red liberal scum.

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im sorry the holocaust happened, user.

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No actually you have that wrong.

The France, and Britain both ignored Germanies offer of truce and peace.

Hitler invaded to reclaim the land occupied by ethinic germans from Poland as a result their loss of the trety of versaille.

He just needed an excuse, and ethnic Pols gave him one when the ethnic Germans were shouting about their persecution at the hands of Polish authorities and citizens.

Believing in stupid conspiratorial shit dosent make one anti establishment it simply makes them dumb

Except when its always Holla Forums see:

The gasssings never happened.

You have no evidence that they did, I have evidence they didnt.

Your move.

...

What did he mean by this?

debunked:
imgur.com/a/725A7

Yea, they dragged Jews all the way to Poland, built expensive camps using resources needed for the war to "gas" them when a simple bullet and burial would have been sufficient.

Then post some evidence. All you have is shitty jpgs, debunk this if you're so certain

see…..


you fucking delusional Holla Forumsyp

Soon we're discussing the degenerating effects of zionist invention fidget spinner the plastics of which are pure soy turning pure white aryan children into dragqueens

"Reconstruction" by the Soviets. LOL!

Regardless if it happened or not you should still be against the jew due to their vapid developments in the field of capitalism and objectivism
Way back when all systems of government where fairly socialistic and everyone had a strong sense of the collective over the individual, up until jews showed up and started preaching their gospel of money over your neighbor

because the holocaust started out as labour camps, they used the jews to build things for the german military until they died. As the war progressed and the Germans realized they were losing, they abandonned ship and killed as many as they could.

there were definitely concentration camps, but concentration camps were a mainstay in that era. see the similar strategies by the british against the boers forty years earlier to get a better idea of why they were seen as legitimate strategy.

now the wholesale and systematic slaughter of jews (especially by gassing) is where things start getting iffy. supporters always say its the most documented genocide in history. when you ask them for the evidence they refer to the nuremburg trials. when you examine the trials you find a court made up of all the victors of the war instead of a neutral coutnry. you find defendants who who confessed under torture upon capture. you find confessions that don't align with what has been 'determined' to be true. you find evidence that was presented that has since been proven false. the majority of evidence presented was through hearsay (the allowance of which is another legal oddity of the trial) because there was a lack of physical evidence. you also find out that the extermination camps were only found by soviet forces, in soviet territory, and weren't accessible to the western powers. you'll also find a lack of any systematic exhumations to determine casualties (and there haven't been any major ones since).

there's a lot of other little things and some big things that add up there to make the entire ordeal questionable. but the lack of hard physical evidence continues to be one of the most mind boggling, since even the exhumation of several hundred thousand would be enough to put doubters to rest. given the circumstances of the time, the fact that the trial was anything but impartial, that theres documentation of defendants being tortured into confessions, the reliance on widely varying hearsay to get convictions, the fact that all the extermination camps (but not concentration camps) were discovered and located in territory occupied by a notoriously propagandist nation, and a whole lot more puts the story into a different light.

more than likely there was mass internment not debatable in camps with poor conditions, especially as supplies dwindled towards the end of the war. brutal atrocities and killings likely occured. widespread disease and starvation likely happened. hundreds of thousands probably died, maybe even in the millions. the systematic murder of 6 gorillion souls, however, probably did not.

...

Marx was of jewish descent and he is the reason socialism even exists.

Debunk this….


If the Holocaust is fake then debunking this big file of lies should be simple right?

I don't think the jews were gassed. I don't think 6,000,000 died.

I don't think any concentration camp is a nice place to be however but, I think the Germans tried to make it a nice place to live before they were bombed by British and Americans.

every time

Wow, so Germany was actually the good guy?? Holy shit, user what a redpill XDD. Really though, Germany collaborated with Ukrainian nationalists to undermine Poland, which undermined his credibility to the Poles, so he invaded under a the weak pretense of "rescuing" ethnic Germans. Hitler was a shit diplomat, a shit tactician, and a shit theorist.

All of those images are long debunked read this…

guys we're going in circles here. Can we just collectively drop the thread? theyre not gonna learn anything.

Even the fake chimney? I'm reading now.

See….

my favourite story is where hitler got fucking mad as hell because he wrote the king of denmark a long elaborate birthday card and the king responded with "k thx"
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegram_Crisis

umm.. did you even look at what i posted? how about what you posted? is there anything in particular you have that flat out disproves what i said? no. because what i posted is true. repeatedly pointing to your evidence when i just laid out why that evidence is questionable in the first place doesn't prove anything.

Except that you gave no evidence
and most of these "inconsistencies" that you point out are easily disproved upon closer analysis

Holy shit, what a mess. It's honestly baffling that people buy into the image of Hitler as a quiet, thoughtful man. The guy was unhinged in so many ways.

ok, but can you please debunk what he posted? or, if there are any inaccuracies in the files you can point them out and then we can talk about that

Yeah, I'm going to find some pictures of the chimney before the war and some documentation of the red army liberators entering the camp and show you what i come up with.

"…negationists argue that the presence of a swimming pool in Auschwitz I, with three diving boards, shows that the camp was really a rather benign place and therefore could not have been a center of extermination. It is a fallacious argument because the swimming pool was built as a water reservoir for the purposes of fire-fighting (there were no hydrants in the camp), the diving boards were added later, and the pool was only accessible to SS men and certain privileged Aryan prisoners employed as inmate functionaries in the camp. In short, the presence of the swimming pool does not say anything about the conditions for Jewish inmates in Auschwitz and does no challenge the existence of an extermination program with its proper facilitates in Auschwitz II."
Robert Pelt, The Case for Auschwitz (Indiana University Press, 2002), 90.

The so-called Auschwitz soccer team was actually none of the sort. Its members were not Auschwitz inmates. They were British POWs from the camp E715, which was administered not by KL Auschwitz but by Stalag VIII-B in Lamsdorf. Very different rules applied to these POWs who, to repeat, were not Auschwitz inmates.

Who were the prisoners who resorted to the SS houses of prostitution? “A pass to that special block was a form of reward. And so, to a large degree, the clients were prisoners who got along well with the camp authorities—various prisoner functionaries, capos, and informers,” says former Auschwitz prisoner Józef Stós (camp number 752).

Germans, of course, were the most privileged prisoners.

In Auschwitz alone, several dozen women worked. Only “Aryans” could avail themselves of their services. No Jews allowed.

web.archive.org/web/20080510215232/http://www.auschwitz.org.pl/new/index.php?language=EN&tryb=stale&id=672

Forgot to include

dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2443817/Former-prisoner-war-96-remembers-playing-Auschwitz-football-league-return-Nazi-death-camp.html

...

A lot of them were killed by other means, like by firing squad

Not true, there were socialists before Marx.

You've given me a lot to read and chew on. Quickly my 3 first questions are; Why would a death camp need firefighters? Did these British soccer players know? And why the 25 lashes on the bottom at the brothel, that seems kinda timid for a death camp, you'll find more people at the influx of people.


Fuck the soviets, lets kill jews with our limited ammo.

Even german nazis admitted themselves that it did happen, go on auschwitz-prozess.de and listen to the confessions in the end of the trial.

pic related
imgur.com/a/725A7

Hitler, the original tumblrina.

HOW TO DENY THE HOLOCAUST Holla Forums style

It starts with the idea of the Jewish conspiracy. This is the big fall back for everyone who denies the holocaust on Holla Forums, and if you try to pull out thousands of testimonies that say there were gas chambers, and that they describe systematic killings; they'll pull this one out of their ass; even if the testimony is from the Soviets [(leaders of the bolshevik revolution WERE DA JEWS GUYS EVEN 30 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD STILL JEWS) see , counter to the denial:>>2228415]
instead of the many political prisoners and jews themselves. And we're talking thousands, infact the amazing silence that was kept about this program led to pretty much all information about it being built from testimony. Now this hinges on ALL of these testimonies are fake, as Holla Forums builds up (therein denying the experiences of thousands of people in unbelievable conditions).
This is the heart of the Jewish conspiracy, that the Holocaust is not what it seems. Every little piece that seems out of place, which is commonly just psuedoscientific nitpicking from laymen who think their doing the world a service with their denial and exposing the heart that is the Jewish conspiracy (while denying basically any human memory of the event).
For pseudo scientific nitpicking of real material conditions see these posts, most have already been countered, just look at their replies


This one is a much more reasonable idea of Holocaust denial, but involves the denial of thousands of testimonies of prisoners and Soviets. Not to mention the Americans. All three are obviously in on the Jewish conspiracy to destroy the image of the Nazis.


One of the greatest generalizations of a worldwide event in the sense that it wasn't "logical."

If you truly do believe in this ideology what difference does it make? You should fully embrace their extermination and wish the numbers were higher. Similar to how we say the Kulaks deserved it.

Lolnaw, "kulak" was hardly an objective clarification, and you're a dipshit if you think collectivization was better than the alternatives.

Because infrastructure built by the state needs to be taken care of like any other in case of an emergency? They were in a war, you know, fire is a recurring element in a war, you know.

Yeah nah, I'll take the information provided at nuremburg and the witness testimony and the declassified information provided by allied forces as my sources

Nuremberg: only evidence is testimony under torture and intimidation
Witness testimony: almost every story you read or hear contradicts the previous one.
Allied Intelligence declassified documents:
Oh the soviets were the only ones to provide "physical evidence" and our entire sigint op never omce uncovered gassings, though we did uncover executions (of which no one has ever disputed)

How about start here, the allies sigint report:

nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/cryptologic-quarterly/assets/files/sigint_and_the_holocaust.pdf

Start there. Then come back.

I will not be accepting blogs for or against my statment as evidence. I suggest you do the same.

Kulaks fucking deserved it, their children and wives? Not so much. Innocents died, but in their deaths, the grain and land that was seized went straight to keeping the proletariat alive.

Britain and the US knew about what was going on at Auschwitz but didn’t want to air it publically because 1. the Zionists opposed world relief efforts for Jews that didn’t involve export to Palestine 2. They didn’t want to be seen as fighting a “Jewish War”
dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4421532/Files-reveal-Allied-forces-knew-Holocaust-YEARS.html
It was known to the Allies what was happening in 1942.
historytoday.com/barbara-rogers/auschwitz-and-british
The Russian Federal Secret Security Service declassified data showing that far more than just 1 million were killed at Auschwitz:
orientalreview.org/2015/01/21/who-is-going-to-auschwitz/

The Zionists in Palestine were collaborators with the Nazis and knew through their intelligence networks and first-hand on the ground sources that millions of Jews actually were being killed. They simply didn’t care, it was small potatoes in comparison to creating Israel and so even after the Allies had issued a statement in 1942 saying that Jews were being massacred the Zionists went out of their way to sow doubt about it. They were some of the greatest perpetrators of misinformation about the Holocaust during the war.

If you want a REAL red pill read this book on Nazi-Zionist collaboration. The notion that the Zionists somehow faked the Holocaust is absurd their deepest darkest secret that they hope never comes to light is how essential they were in helping to carry it out. It is very much arguable that the Holocaust couldn’t have been carried out without the essentials role played by Zionist collaboration with Nazi Germany not to mention other fascist regimes Its all incredibly well-sourced from primary Zionist sources. Holla Forumstards are operating under the false dichotomy that the Zionist movement and Nazi Germany were fundamentally opposed. Why the Zionists would go so far to cover up their role in a genocide that edgelords call a hoax is unexplainable in view of the actual facts.
sttpml.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/BAZO.pdf

Found the kulak

This thread:

Well obviously the Diary of Anne Frank isn't real, and numbers have been inflated, but that doesn't mean the event didn't take place.

Most of the Holla Forums info graphics spread around are horseshit.

Germany's own people werr starving at the end of the war, why would they want to feed the prisoners who couldn't work. They killed some and others died from the conditions. America would have done the same with the japs. I never got why pol tries so hard to convince themselves it didn't happen. It can be a real event and also a propaganda tool. The two aren't mutually exclusive. The evidence contradicts the official narrative because the official narrative is adapted soviet war propaganda not reality. As far as why we still use the propaganda narrative, its mostly an attempt to influence the jewish vote (a big swing vote especially when it comes tp florida) and to promote tribalism in Israel as a justification for imperialism in the middle east.

It actually was see…..

Are you just playing dumb or actually this stupid? Auschwitz wasn't just a death camp, it was massive series of camps. A notable case where the fire brigades had to act was during a revolt in which a crematorium was set on fire.

auschwitz.org/en/museum/news/70th-anniversary-of-the-sonderkommando-revolt,1107.html

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sigmund_Sobolewski

Did they know what, that jews were being gassed? Read the link.

Seeing as how these are the groups of people already deemed eligible for the brothel, it doesn't seem as bizarre to me as how you're implying

ITT: Im expected to believe the soviets, of whom had decades to perfect their art of evidence destruction, subversion, and photo/document doctoring, of whom had an entire agency dedicated to doing so were completely unable to hide most of their crimes undee scrutiny.

But the germans in a fit of chaos under constant bombing and enemy fire were able to cover up a massibe network of secret gas chambers and elimination programs so completely that its impossible to even know where the bodies went, and further more, they only committed these crimes in soviet captured territory.

reading is for FAGS

read SirArronRichards…

Love too support a failed attempt at communism that resulted in millions of unnecessary deaths. Collectivization was a disaster, and literally everyone told Stalin that it was a bad idea.

ITT: I'm expected to believe that the Germans with their completely idealist notion of Jews being the inherent evil that plagues capitalist society did not aim to systematically destroy them, nor systematically hide this ordeal as well if in case they came out on the good end of the war.

Source? I googled it and only nazi sites came up.
Lelno. They explain the same miserable life in the camps. The only "contradiction" you'll find there is due to the difference in the camps and personal experience.
>Allied Intelligence declassified documents: Oh the soviets
Way to prove you haven't read what you are trying to cite. In any case. WW2 101: the Russians came from the East, the Americans from the West. Guess where the camps in question were? PROTIP: look at the pics.

You haven't shown anything to substantiate your claims, you autist. We are showing you nazi-debunking collections because you have nothing under your sleeve other than conspiracy theories. If we were dealing with a sane adult men we'd recommend you history books.

I could make sense with that if it wasn't a death camp. So why not just have a burning pit for the jews who faint during death marches? Why even have the camp in the first place if they were that worried about infrastructure. I think It would make more sense if you're at war to be, housing mass refuges, pow, and homeless native aryans. I'm still reading threw everything, so i might answer my own questions later, or ask my fam on Holla Forums what they think about this blog posted.

They didn't successfully cover it up, brainlet. But when you look at the State's ideology it's clear how the Jews fit into everything. Their plan for success was basically Lebensraum + racial purity. No seriously that's it. That was their entire plan. No revolutionary economic program like the Italian fascists. Just retarded idpol and perpetual war. Brilliant.

Its all well and good to say that they knew.

The declassified documents say otherwise.

So, considering I have been on both sides of the fence and have seen enough evidence, well-sourced evidence against the possibility of the existence of gas chambers, and have since changed my mind on the matter, I have every confidence that as you dig down the rabbit hole of debunking holocaust deniers (as I started out doing) you too, will eventually come across a crack in the narrative, and soon realise the situatiom was far more complex than hitler "just really hated jews for no reason" and then put in a plan to "gas them all"

The idea that this was even taken seriously by anyone with half a brain is staggering.

You will realise you have been lied too soon enough, I just hope it's not to late.

I detected the lie.

You don't think Hitler hated Jews or that he believed that racial purity of the German people would be the key to their success? He wrote a book about it for Christ's sake, goddamn

Okay then how do you explain 150k jewish soliers serving in the german army?

How do you explain the haavara agreement?

How do you explain the islamic brigades?

How do you explain ghandis friendly outlook towards nazis?

How do you explain the swastika and its symbology throughout history?

Whats the history behind the word aaryan?

Why does iran hate israel so much?

These are all connected and they have very similar answers at their core.

Muh booooooooooks

Ffs how about this:

...

...

Oh my, the irony? There are tards on both boards.

So not all the jews were killed off, so it wasn't planned from the start? Just random jews that arrived and couldn't work died?

So the holocaust is a myth? Nah jk. I just want to find the inconsistency's.

Im still here and I havent been successfully refuted yet.

I have been called names and ignorant, yet not one single thing has given me pause for thought.

You know what did give me pause?

Muh soap
Muh lampshades
Muh masturbation machine
Muh showers
Muh superior race
Muh bigotry
Muh soviets are the good guys
Muh hitler started the war with all of europe I promise
Muh only the jewish community were the victims of nazi germany - everyone else was secondary
Muh we saved europe
Muh merica


I could go on.

But it's okay, you'll twig to it one day.

IF you want to know more about the Holocaust or ANYTHING else in the world go to the sources and also CONSIDER THE SOURCES IN WHICH YOU ARE RECIEVING INFORMATION; YOURE ALL FUCKING DILUTED.

The new generation is so fucking dumb.

Evidence?
A pr stunt
In most cases were either dissolved for refusing to fight for nazi occupiers or outright defected to the partisans

Holla Forums is proof enough that nazis are brainlets easily persuaded by vague claims about the others ruining everything rather than to admit there might be systematic reason for the rich to get richer. Maybe i'm just crazy and the Jews plotted this all because it is written in their genes, but then again the romans that nazis like to larp as even admited that property was to source of richness and unequality and set to limit the property one singhle person can own. But let's not get crazy it's the jews and their genes.

...

gassing doesn't even have to be the original plan, they sent SS people to round up jews, put them to work, jews start causing problems in one of the camps, some insane sanitarist is friends with the people in charge and suggests that gassing would be a good way to get rid of a few thousand prisoners, they do it, they share the intel with SS people elsewhere, the tactic spreads for convenience

ridding germany of jews was the plan even before the Nazi party existed, among various fringe monarchists and volkish circles.
Rounding up and disenfranchising the jews was official nazi policies because jews were among the main opposition to a party that has antisemitism as its main propaganda point, the number of jews and the resistence they created grew as the war went on the reich expanded and resources got scarcer, there's nothing inconsistent.

Most jews were proud german citizens untill the nazis wanted to pin the blame of ww1 all on them, some even stayed true after the german people went after then, the nazis were retarded.
You're right it is capitalism and nazis are retarded.

Hard to get sources when you will be imprisoned for being one.

That right there tells you the holocaust was fabricated bullshit. You need a fucking law to stop people from questioning an historical event that is "well documented".

I know that was war propaganda the source i provided pointed this out
same as the soap
same as the first two
Because thats what the Nazis thought about themselves
Are you actuall going to tell me that ethnic/racial bigotry didnt exist in Nazi german?
Because its true

Wow, more whataboutism. Exciting!
Nationalism's a hell of a drug. Also iirc most Jews serving in the military were so called "Mischlings". There was a whole racial hierarchy.
Ruling class solidarity.
Nationalism. Hitler was pretty fast and loose with who he considered to be Aryan tbh. The guy was hypocritical as fuck.
Gandhi sucks cocks, but he wasn't pro Nazi like your claiming.
Hitler took a cool symbol and fucked it up for everyone.
Idk, you tell me.
Years of ethnic tensions, along with Israel's persistence in undermining their political ambitions seems like a fair explanation.

Zionists collaborated with Nazi Germany and some of the best evidence for the Holocaust comes from the Zionists own confessions regarding their collaboration with the Nazis during this event.
sttpml.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/BAZO.pdf
So, it seems we have most of Europe saying Jews were killed and persecuted plus the United States and international organizations, plus the Soviets and even the Zionists who participated in it they do try to cover this up tho admit that it happened. The surviving Nazi leadership admitted that it happened and so do many German soldiers and camp guards who were elderly and not under duress.

So, basically everyone in the world admits it happened besides autistic neo-Nazi LARPers and Arabs mad at Israel and America for good reason

Muh Soviets isn’t really a great argument seeing how intelligence agencies and police forces in the West do all the same shit that Nazis imagine allowed the Soviets to pull of the Holo-hoax without a hitch. The question of Soviet crimes is just goalpost-shifting and has far less evidentiary basis than Nazi crimes but even taking anti-communist claims at face-value it’s not like the Soviets killed more people or did worse things than Western imperialism. Again, it’s Cold War fetishism that drives much of this stormfag stuff.

Now that the Soviet Union and the vast majority of its allied states are no longer around, it isn’t like the narrative has been challenged. In fact, now that Western researchers are getting more and more in-depth access to former East bloc archives and independent sources behind the Iron Curtain many have stopped to wonder if they were to conservative. The USSR has been gone more than 30 years it’s not like the evil Bolsheviks are around to stop people from seeing the truth.

And there’s plenty of evidence for it collected by scholars, researchers and intelligence services in the West bloc.

So really you have to believe that the whole world was and is in on the Jewish conspiracy OR you have to be a Holocaust minimalist— meaning you accept that it happened but not the higher end of the figures. I don’t see anyway around this it’s one or the other.

Hmmm… being a communist would get you killed or imprisoned in most of the world, that proves it marx was right all along. McCarthy your game is up.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_Fritzsch#cite_note-ARC-1

"imprisoned for being one."

Dont make excuses. Stand up for yourself holy shit - New generation is a bunch of pussies too.

Straw man of the year award.

Why its almost as if the situation was more complicated.

And yet as this thread goes on my stance hasnt altered, yet everyone seems to be weaseling out of the narrative.

Now: books.google.com/books/about/Hitler_s_Jewish_Soldiers.html?id=T-ptAAAAMAAJ&redir_esc=y&hl=en

I have not once said there was not jewish persecution, however to say they were the only country jailing people and executing based on race?

Funny cause we all know internment camps existed. Lynchings were happening in america and do we just ignore the continued middle east slavery issue?


Its not tin foil hat to actually read history you fucking pinko. Have a look into hezbollah, and the history of palestine, the golan heights and the six day war. Look at how that came about as a result of the balfour declaration.

It's pretty cute seeing all you roll up in me with half baked reactionary arguments… you almost sound like neocons

They were being polemical, but they're not wrong. Most people on Holla Forums are race "realists" and "genetic determinists", and to a large extent use these beliefs to justify their hatred of the figure of the Jew. The guy wasn't wrong.

Do you have any good non strawman reasons the jews are behind everything?

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"Other people did it to!" Isnt an argument and it dosent make the side you likes crimes less atrocious

What a shit insult, lmao. Capitalism is clearly falling apart, so you'd have to be stupid not to look for alternatives. Fascism still operates with the law of value, so it's not an alternative, strictly speaking.

This was thought to be a myth for several years until newer research came to light. It wasn't done at an industrial scale was once alleged but it was done nonetheless.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rudolf_Spanner

Jews hate on Whites 24/7. So fuck off with the victimhood. Not everyone you disagree with is "Holla Forums".

Have you stopped beating your anime animal nazi tranny wife?

you mean "a certain percentage of Jews have decided that Whites are a source of their victimization and have internalized this"
not Jews hate on whites 24/7, instead of browsing hot takes on twitter from Jews 24/7 as you say, maybe you should analyze what brought this hate about?

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How is this a response to what I said? And what victimhood are you talking about? I'm confused. Some Jews hate whites, but plenty identify as white? And regardless, what I said wasn't even wrong, lmao

Still not my argument.

Do you even understand context?

Jews are psychopaths? "White privilege"?

I wasn't arguing with you, I was commenting on how stupid the term "pinko" is as an insult given the current socioeconomic climate

...

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you poor victim!
Maybe stop contradicting yourself?

Not sure what your point is here. The existence of shitty Jews aren't a reason to hate all Jews unless you subscribe to some sort of racial determinism (like I said previously, lmao)

Nobody did what you are purporting to know as fact.

Furthermore, what did happen, doesnt mean that anyone else is above the nazi treatment.

The day the hammer and sickle is hated 5 times as much as the nazi symbol is the day I'm looking forward too.

The day people punch pinkos in the throat for wearing a che guevera shirt is the day I defend your right to be a shit head, as long as its not in self defence.

Now anyone else got anything other than muh holocaust narrative reactionary conservative level arguments?

this is why the typewriter comes up again and again in popular culture shindlers list shining etc. they kept meticulous records

more inherent this, inherent that. The jews you speak of are so far and few, but you pick up some picture that one said on twitter that "Whites need to be genocided"and freak the fuck out like this is normal behavior for someone to think that another race should be genocided. Rinse and fucking repeat for any other race that hates on whites in an idealist manner. "White privilege" is not a "Jewish" invention, even IF privilege theory was invented by a Jew, you would throw millions of others under the bus over some internet tough guys or shit theorists who think Whites are inherently bad.

I'm going to leave this here.

I think I have proven my point.

Look Holla Forums weve given you all the facts
I personally gave you an over three hundred page long set of documents debunking all of Holla Forumss stupid infographics and memes
All the fake "holoHOAX truth!" pictures
its all fake
I beg you just take one look at this….

I'm not going to claim that it's ok to attack people physically for their beliefs, but the Nazis kinda brought a lot of the heat they get on themselves. They constantly stir shit up, and they constantly do the same kind of sneaky shit they're constantly accuse Jews of doing.

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do you have an older brother?

Holy shit I don't visit LeftyPol much but I saw this thread and came to see the responses and wow you leftists really are as braindead as they say. Not a single one of you provided any sort of argument. Every post is "muh emotions" or trying to shame someone for having a different opinion without giving any reason why their opinion isn't true.

So prove the holocaust happened. We are waiting.

The American gas chamber comparison is the biggest strawman argument that thinks that a single gas chamber for the execution of single people is comparable to the systematic killing of millions. Ever hear of labour constraint, or maybe even money?

read….


It has a whole section dedicated to debunking "muh wooden door" meme

Its the hallway leading to the chamber not the chamber itself

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Point out a specific post that you feel boils down to "muh emotions". (you're projecting)

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Its not even that
The "wooden door" meme is a complete fake
The "wooden gaschamber door" is actually just a hallway door in the same building

Holla Forums isnt even making an attempt

I've been through this thread from the get go as a reformed Holla Forumsyp (having just lost my historical revisionism this year) and I'm not sure what the fuck you're talking about. I've spent hours refuting you fucking retards directly WITH evidence that directly refutes infographics that Holla Forums posts in EVERY SINGLE HOLOCAUST DENIAL thread there is. Fuck you.

I read that fucking diatribe of a blog.

It was the reactionary ranting of a crazed lunatic, you know the same thing you are accusing me of.

The supposed gas chambers in auschwitz were a lie, the whole fucking thing was a way to excuse the rape and murder of innocent germans for profit.

Here Ill give you a concession: I am not a fan of hitler, I never purported to be. Stalin was worse and mao was worse than that.

I am still of the idea that capitalism and socialism need to work together as they are reliant on each other to keep things in check.

Now that I have that out the way:

No program existed to gas ethnic jewish people and anyone who thinks otherwise is either delusional, willfully ignorant or overtly malicious in their complete and utter deception.

Uh that Holla Forums tbh hun

There's empirical evidence for that.

I'm sorry. My mom saw my post and is forcing me to apologize. I'm sorry for being mean. After thinking about it she is right I went too far.

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got any proofs that destroys the thousands of testimonies from other countries and prisoners? or maybe even the evidence of the final solution from the german government itself?

WHERE'S THE PROOF

Fire and water need to be friends. Why don't matter and antimatter hug each other?

This is a fucking joke right?
He clearly sourced and gave evidence for everything
Unlike you

No it wasnt that Holla Forumss bullshit getting to you
Evidence?
Thats got nothing to do with this

Once again i lie

kek

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Thats rich, coming from Holla Forums

Your argument seems to be remove one so only the other exists.

You know forests and life rely on both fire and water right?
Jeeesus I gave you all too much credit

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read.A.Book

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People are laughing at you because socialism is a fundamentally different mode of production than capitalism is. Your statement is contradictory. Socialism means that the means of production are held in common and that production is for use rather than for exchange like it is under capitalism.

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Humans and orcs.

Muh booooooooooooooooooks

Which book would that be?

The one produced at the communal ancom printing press or the one sold at amazon the multinational conglomerate?

Which book?

Go on…
Tell me

I must know.

Of course it's a little more complicated than that, I only described the economic qualities of socialism. There's political qualities too tbh, but that's a big topic tbh.

Every book written by Marx?

His is actually more retarded. "Forests and life" is like saying "the number 6 and all numbers".

I know you Holla Forums types hate books, so here's a nice playlist for you, user! You don't have to watch it all, just the first 4-5 will probably tell you enough to be able to not look dumb in arguments tbh youtube.com/playlist?list=PL3F695D99C91FC6F7

it's called das kapital, read the first chapter. that's all you need.


The economic qualities of socialism you describe are just intermixing capitalism with reforms to appease the proletariat enough to think that they are in control. Socialism or bust.

Lol the guy that spent his life as a journalist on peoples couches.

Yeah a real thinker that one.

It boils down to: "surely everyone wants to live the life of a despondent student with no ambition"

Yeah read it, this is why I laugh at you.

Thanks, you just made my argument for me.

If you're OK with good through life without challenging your beliefs by reading/watching things you disagree with that's fine, but don't pretend that it makes you better than people who do challenge themselves.

YEAH FUCK BOOKS MAN

Holla Forums everyone

I came to you, all of you dissappointed me bar one, and that guy posted a link to a 300 page ramble (of which I will meticulously read)

Not to mention I started on yoir side of the fence, I challenged my beliefs and yet here you all are, squaking and howling like a bunch of mad chimps that I dare present an alternative perspective.

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Yeah, I'm gonna have to disagree with you here. Producing goods directly for use/consumption would fundamentally change the dynamic of social life. It would be huge. But yeah, I see what you're saying, small reforms shouldn't be the goal of communism. But then again, even something as small as universal health care would produce a huge change in people's lives. The economic dimension of people's lives is much bigger than most people think.

Please, continue to tell me more things that never happened.

Its almost like you people think that just cause it was written in a book it must be true.

You understand that was just marx's opinion right?

Listen I know that book must have had a profound impact on you, but why does everyone on Holla Forums magically think reading a communist book will magically make evryone agree with them?

Lol youre worse than evangelists.

Someone, for the love of god, archive this thread. This is way too funny

Hardly btfo.

Most of it so far seems to be strawmen arguments or at least arguments against things I never said nor believe.

I mean you know you are allowed to be wrong sometimes. All you have to do is admit it, you'll grow as a person.

Feel free to come back at any time to present more 'alternative perspectives' for us to ravage.

We love it.

Fuck off, neither one wants you. Go back to /cuckchan/

i'll be lurky leftpol this week. great sauce boys. I mean really good stuff. sources, engaged in debate, not derailing, moderate shitposting. this is why im here. thnx

Please do. Then they can see how fucking terrible you all are at facing calm reasoned perspectives that run different to your deeply held beliefs.

So how many Jews exactly died?

Lmao, naw, it was his theory. The guy was pretty insightful imo :^)
I didn't suggest that you watch that video series because I wanted to convert you. That's retarded. I suggested it because you have no clue what you're talking about and you look retarded as a result. Thinking isn't a bad thing.

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Its ok to admit Holla Forums lied to you

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Likely a few million

"Ravaged"

If by that you mean name calling and patting each other on the back then I mean sure..

Though none of you seem to have any fucking clue lol.

even 1st day on the internet kids can see what your doin here. Comparing your adversary to Christians might be a sure fire way to win keyboard warrior battles in YouTube comment sections but it won't work here.

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what kind of logic is that?

No it mean pointing out how stupid Holla Forums is then watching them wallow around in their own vomit and piss and declare victor

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The dude was a hack and most of his opinions not only led to disasterous consequences, half of the shit he wanted to have happen had the opposite effect.

It barely works on a small scale, and on a large scale its just laughable.

Keep being entertaining Holla Forums I have had a blast.

gooble gobble

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But how could you know this if you've never actually looked into Marx's ideas? 🤔🤔🤔

Ah the old parrot response.

I'm not phased, I dont even care if you share my opinion, the seeds I've planted have already been sown.

Years from now you will remember me and this post and something will happen and you will realise that I was right, and your world will shatter.

Of this I am certain.

Wonderful.

Yet I have. They are laughably naive.

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I do seriously mean the appeasement part. I never said reforms were bad per se, but that they still give into a complacent populace that has no interest in destroying alienated labour and surplus value extraction. Reformism should always have these two things at heart, or it'll loose sight and produce things like the relationship between first world and third world countries. This is the kind of exploitation that passes right over peoples heads like clouds in the fucking sky. Reformism never pays attention to these things unless its outrageous enough to pass a bill towards curbing it, but can do very little in stopping the big picture.

hITLER WAS A HACK AND MOST OF HIS OPINIONS NOT ONLY LED TO DISASTROUS CONSEQUENCES, HALF OF THE SHIT HE WANTED TO HAVE HAPPEN HAD THE OPPOSITE EFFECT
FASCISM ONLY WORKS ON A SMALL SCALE, AND ON A LARGE SCALE IT PRODUCES THE DEATHS OF MILLIONS

Well put. What we need to do is to unite socialism and capitalism instead.

>Years from now you will remember me and this post and something will happen and you will realise that I was right
Like what?

Tell us about those naive ideas.

AKA normal Holla Forums shit

He'll probably end up the next spree shooter from the board of peace and they'll all scramble to prove it was the dark side of the moon gangster computer god communist new Jews who were really behind it all.

I'm interested, how so?
If you quote anything from the Communist Manifesto of reforms Marx wanted I'm gonna shit a brick

So if I have been thoroughly beaten then explain to me why I have been able to show you things you otherwise have not seen and in fact I have not been given anything but some random blog?

I mean I don't expect you will change your mind. The information I am providing you was found on years of context, being on the very side you are now, leading me to this very point.

Genocide and ethnic cleansing has always been bad, but lying about it is also criminally horrific.

I am merely pointing out the specifics in which lies were crafted and attempring to provide the context. Not because I think you should start heiling some dead german dude, but because I genuinely believe that somewhere in the fog of these events lies a truth that I believe has been covered up by the "good guys"

bigotry is a spook

Nice try. But I tend to agree.

See, it's tough to argue on anonymous imageboards. I'm sure we'd agree on a lot of things.

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Every single (debunked) jpg you posted can be easily found in 4chan and Holla Forums Holla Forums. And gets posted in this board at least once a month, often getting deleted depending on the mod's mood (you were VERY lucky in that aspect)

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Not an argument
Of which you clearly know so much

Oh jesus I've started it now.

Here Ill make you a deal, Ill make a new thread soon and we can actually get into it.

The thing is, I genuinely think marx was well intentioned, however I think that his ideas were to focused based on his own ego.

The mere fact that people should be able to set their own destiny by means of production, and the idea that one may explore leisurely pursuits without being chained to the factory floor, on its surface sounds like a nice idea.

The fact is, and you may not realise this, a great many people enjoy having a job, as it allows them to actually fulfill their own destiny without being tied to the state.

Yes yes inb4 we'll crush the state. The problem is central planning usually leads to death before we get there.

codoh.com/library/
if you are too dumb to read holocausthandbooks.com/index.php?author_id=15
Now go back to Holla Forums

Stay on topic faggot. This thread is about the jews you guys killed.

Well the situation with reformism is tricky, especially given that the political climate (in America at least) has stagnated to the point that reformism is seen as fairly radical, and revolutionary action is all but impossible. So the focus (at least in the short term) should absolutely be on strategic, transformative, economic issues like universal healthcare. These small actions by themselves won't change much of anything, but the left really fucking needs smart, concrete actions we can take to break out of this stagnation. I'm fucking tired of the constant protests, struggle sessions, and theory. There's a place for this type of shit in the left, but this stagnation is unbearable.

and Roma
and homosexuals
and the mentally handicapped
and communists
and rebels
and soldiers
and Jehova's witnesses
and Poles
and Ukranians
and Russians

Ive posted only these of which 2 are chemical properties of hydrogen cyanide, one is a screngrab from an declassified document. And finally one about wooden doors, which I have seen video footage that backs up this information.

SIGINT and the holocaust is the document. I suggest you check it out. Its an interesting piece of history.

Sounds good. Thx for being an interesting foil I guess, lmao.

Oh fuck off, OP has been insisting they're not a Nazi and that doesn't seem wrong from what I've seen.

Oh my I did that?

How?

I mean I wasnt even alive!

If we are attributing politcal affiliations to crimes, I'm afraid you have failed there too.

Though I can't say the same for the communists here. I mean stalin was a real genocide happy mad man after all.

Ive already debunked the third image btw

Fixed

The reason some people believe it didnt happen is because they are right on a few small aspects but they come to illogical stretched conclusions. For example there isn't evidence of gas chamber shower rooms that was just some propoganda or misunderstanding. It's true part of the Diary of Anne Frank was written in ballpoint pen but what they get wrong is that was notes by Otto Frank as he organised the diary that was fountain pen written to be made into a book. It is true that Zyklon B is used for delousing but there some gas chambers that were labelled with signs clearly stating they are gas chambers so they aren't all delousing chambers.

The word "holocaust" comes from a TV series from the 1970s. Before then lots of events were named holocausts. A plane crashing into a building during the 1940s was called a holocaust. Other events during World War II were called holocausts.

Im not even OP I am just some rando that noticed the thread and decided to through in a more nuanced response.

WW2 is really a weird time in history, and its either one of the most contentious times in our past, of which the ramifications will be felt for centuries.

Yeah you know he's just obsessively preoccupied with the denial of Nazi war crimes and the legitimizing Nazi conspiracy theories, but hey.

hi OP

No I understand that you feel you might have. However I have seen footage of a walk through for what has been purported to be the chambers and they are wooden doors with windows. Also many "restorations" have been made that are questionable.

All I am saying is the evidence that we arent getting the truth has been mounting for a very long time.

Nice try D&C shill.

But no you arent going to kill this discussion.

There's no such thing as a "Jewish race." They didn't have a hatred for the Jewish race for being Jewish. Jews destroyed Berlin in the years after World War I. The German economy was in complete shambles in the aftermath of the Treaty of Paris and yet Jewish businessmen continued to prosper. Jewish moral decay was blamed for the economic decay.

See…

True. Even in this day and age, one might refer to significant events as 'holocausts'.

For example, the holocaust of OP ITT.

not really sure how liberation of the proletariat from being LITERALLY exploited (surplus value, even a wageslave produces it) is egocentric.
Let me try to bring you over to the communistic idea of things without being scared off. Communism wants people to work, however it wants people to work less than they do right now. What we have is production for exchange. Ecologically we know its disastrous. But the fact we needlessly produce all for the sake of profit removes what should have been the main feature of production: social use. The drive for profit gives us shit like planned obsolescence for technologies. The switch to production for use is what we're aiming for, drastically freeing up the populace so much that they would work less, and have their own free time to do, well whatever. Not only that, but the end goal of goods would always have social use in mind, instead of profit.
Communism isn't about taking away peoples jobs and forcing them into certain ones (though you could look at it this way from a capitalist perspective since how much bullshit jobs there are), but its about building a mode of production that will allow for the time and resources to freely choose labour, whether this labour is of your own for your own or done in the service of the people.

No, the person you're calling a Nazi really isn't one. And most people you find on Holla Forums aren't really Nazis either. They've got this weird ideology that is kinda like if the New Left were reactionary. They're not really a threat, and treating them like they are gives them more clout than they really deserve.

Also, it's nice to give people the benefit of the doubt. It also leads to more productive discussions tbh.

But I'm all for the division and conquering of fascists. It's nothing I try to hide.

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Absolute lie the German economy stabilized in the nineteen twenties after the DVP drooped the reichmark
Businessmen in GENERAL continued to prosper not just jews
The economy wasnt in as bad a shape as Nazi propaganda made it seem it had mostly stabilized by the twenties

Been there, done that.

The ego is that he actually thinks he has the answer. The shear narcissism of marx is absolutely untenable. The man thought he was the saviour of the underclass, of whom he was never a part of.

If we were to make the comparison to someone like hitler, well at least he served in the military and got his hands thoroughly dirty (again not a hitler fan, just trying to give you some context to the other side of the fence)

People like me will fight and die to prevent communism at all costs. It goes against the very core of self responsibility and respect.
I will choose when and how I let a community of strangers dictate my personal interactions in so far as my choices of consumption and production.

I suggest that what you can try and do if you want your utopia is to build it at home first.

Yeah they're just a buncha good ol' wholesome folks utilizing nazi imagery, theory, sentiment and tactics.

I know that. Nazis haven't been a threat since WWII.

Like how people gave OP the benefit of the doubt for like half this thread? Turned out a very productive pursuit yes?

Well when you get that time machine and travel to italy I wish you all the best.

I agree (but probs for different reasons). The Bretton Woods system and American hegemony both happened largely because of how WWII turned out.

Not OP btw.

I dont even think OP stuck around.

You guys really ought to get IDs or something

cute bro.
Military schools offer gyms, great food, church services, and lots of educational programs and are in no way just meant for worthless members of society to have to pay for the shit they have done. I think that people are failing to realize the holocaust was actually justified. In hitlers mind, Jews were trying to undermine germany and destroy the country, so he did what he had to.

So you are a wall being talked to.

the flags used to do it. IDs are fucking gay.

Yeah he finally realized his complete and utter annihilation.

All too late I'm afraid. I don't think he'll survive.

Again, you're pulling this out of your ass. Marx didn't view himself as "savior of the underclass". He was just an influential political philosopher, and I'd even argue that most attempts at communism weren't exactly faithful to his ideals.

Oddly enough….

I mean, just look at who truly benefits from those systems. I am just saying, that if you take a moment to let yourself think about it it may activate an almond or two.

Inb4 literally hitler
Some things are just observable facts. Thats all.

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Oh so he wrote those books as a helpful favour?

Cmon you have to have an ego to write a series of books and articles on how everyone else should run their lives.

You dont need communism for that.

Too bad it was all in his mind then.

Still though, its the thought that counts.

Which books by Marx have you read to come to that conclusion?

Marx was literally a prole, what are you talking about. Most of his jobs were journalistic in nature. He never thought he was a savior of any kind, you're misrepresenting him massively here. I don't know how creating a massively novel critique of Capitalism and how it literally functions to the death knell of its workers is narcissistic. You're saying Marx didn't get his hands dirty? So what! As if militaristic deeds and imperialism are anything fucking worth getting badges for. How does Communism go against responsibility and respect? In fact it is the epitome of responsibility and respect, for the people? Tell me, how does Capitalism achieve this? By letting fatcat shareholders move their money around to make more money always at the expense of its workers? Responsible my ass, other than letting people be thrown around in the market forces like fucking cattle it does shit all.
Fuck right off buddy, you have no fucking choice in the matter except to the will of Sates and market forces. You really think you have some destiny to manifest in Capitalism except for being part of the proleteriat (much more likely than being able to live off of investments)? This is the problem with capitalists, they all think they've really got a choice in the matter of consumption and production, when all they are is a molecule of water in the ocean. You are dictated by the forces that have developed through policy, Communism wishes to put you the prole in a place where you get to be a part of the labour process, labour councils etc.

Porky benefited from those systems, user. Really capitalists are what Holla Forums hates, they just take it in the wrong direction with that whole paranoid antisemitism shit.

No, he wrote them because he thought he had something important to say. His Labor Theory of Value is an utterly remarkable theory and it has held up surprisingly well considering how much things have changed since then.

I'm thinking of a gulag filled with conspiratards.

All marx did was theorise, incorrectly I might add, that people suffer under work. What marx got right was the collapse that happens within markets as a result of rapid deflation of value for goods when demand suddenly halts.

Under your own logic, hitlers (again not defending, but giving you something to bounce ideas against) economic policies were superior, germany corrected itself when the world was being crushed under the weight of the great depression (something that hit soviet russia the hardest I have to point out).

Just because a mans theories and predictions can be correct in some areas as an academic observation, it does not mean he knows what to do with them.

There might be a little bit of the cult of personality going on, if you were to be truthful with yourself.

Well actually Marx's theories have been empirically validated for the most part. They have a great deal of predictive power tbh.

i dont agree, but god dammit i laughed

You've obviously never been to africa. The Africans living in your neighborhood and going to your school are the cream of the crop, which explains how and why they left. The average autism level in Africa is literally retard-tier. autism level tests measure problem-solving ability, not white privilege, so yes it is a valid measurement. The test measures intelligence, not knowledge.

Cute censorship. "autism level" is supposed to read "intelligence quotient"

The biggest evidence for the holocaust having happened is that there is literally no reason to make it up. There is nothing for the "Jewish Community" to gain for inventing it having happened. Holla Forums likes to talk about it as if it weaves a narrative about people feeling so guilty about it happening, that they give Jews extra privileges, but that's not how the world works. Affirmative Action putting more black people into universities due to some kind of "white guilt" is a million miles away from Jews ruling the world (or whatever Holla Forums thinks they do) because of a fictional "holocaust guilt". It just doesn't make sense. The modern capitalist system doesn't reward a sob story they way individuals on kickstarter might. If the Jews already rule the world through nepotism (which there are arguments that they may), then they would have nothing to gain by revising history to make them out to be the "victims", ESPECIALLY to America. Americans fucking LOATHE the underdog, and often finds victims to be the ones at fault, simply for being weak and ending up exploited in the first place.

At this point, denying the holocaust happened is exactly the same as denying the Moon Landing happened. There's just no goddamn reason for people to lie about it.

Cute butthurt man. It's fucking adorable.

is this the case?
ny.findacase.com/research/wfrmDocViewer.aspx/xq/fac.19570312_0041130.NY.htm/qx

Well we aren't nazis here now are? ;')

Are you asking a bunch of people who dismiss the Holodomor to prove the existence of the Holocaust?
Not sure if this is genious level trolling or just poking fun at the russians.

No he theorized that people produce an amount of value in their labour, part of this value is then extracted to company profits. I make 10 dollars an hour, while say the goods I produce amount to total profit of commodities (before wage deduction) of 1000 dollars an hour. I work with 10 other people who get payed the same, with one manager who gets payed 15. Every single one of us has surplus value from the goods that we produced (even the managerial position, which involves more service, but still produces value in his actions), going to people we will never see or meet, to places we will never even know. Maybe what your talking is alienation which is a more philosophic idea, but still holds credence (psychologically: self-management, self-worth etc.) for creating a workplace that involves the worker in the whole massive process of the goods he produce.
Hitler was Keynesian policies on steroids no? Little of his policies did much for worker emancipation except for getting people to work again, same with the war economy that put everyone to work or in the military. These policies did little in the long run except exacerbate debt for the country, and involved little in actual value creation. Hitler had no interest in destroying the capitalist class, but his policies more in fact hardened their position. The word privatization was invented in context of their massive sell off of nationalized pieces of economy.
Marx did little with what he predicted except for participating in the ongoing socialist movements in Germany (which was near revolution during The Communist Manifesto) and constantly critiquing it. What else could he do as one man?
I don't love Marx, in fact he was racist as fuck for no good reason except that it was the times. But I keep analyzing his ideas, and for once as a desperate reformed Holla Forumsyp who needs an ideal [calling communism an ideal of any sort, and not the creation of values in response to the alienation of labour (alienation being, I have no part in the labour process)] of some sort to claw on to, they seem factual. Surplus value extraction for one is plain factual. This is just how the capitalist world operates tooth and nail.

Thank you.

Actually there is plenty of reason to fabricate it.

Firstly, stalin: known now to have doctored photo and evidence to support eliminating his political enemies, was thoroughly embarassed on the international stage by hitler running amok accross the ussr, even almost taking stalingrad.

The jewish community: there was a massive push for international jewry to boycott germany when hitler started enacting his economic reforms and nationalist policies, even before the arrests were being made.

The allied forces: after having beat germany into the ground only to discover they had inadvertantly unleashed communism on europe had to cover for their declaration of war on germany for the invasion of poland (of which no such war was declared on stalim for the same act)

The reparations from ww1 were not yet paid and the international community, namely the french and british empires were getting their asses kicked and knew that the rise of germany as an empire would be untenable. In creating this narrative they would single handledly decrease german pride, extinguish nationalism, pull even more resources and labour from germany and solidify the international central banking cartel.

I'm not saying this is what happened but for you say that there would to be no reason to…

Whats a little lie about a mean old germany if you get an israel out of thr deal and a life long pension (of which no other national receives)

Its just a theory. Calm down guys.

it didnt, or at least not in the same way the media will have you beleive
yes, even we dont buy into it, its poorly constructed porky propoganda

None of those things exist anymore, so someone should have blown the lid off this by now, rather than just some pithy nonsense like "Oh, Anne Frank didn't really write her diary!!" It's the same with the moon landing. Back then, sure, there was a huge propaganda and national pride reason for the USA to have faked it, but those reasons no longer exist. The truth WILL come out on something, sooner or later, so the fact that it hasn't puts a pretty big specter of doubt upon either event being fake.

Then don't fucking say it. No one here is interested in your retarded speculations.

Here's a theory: You're a full blown holocaust denier RPing as a reasonable person.

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Cant argue with that as a theory, except there is one issue. Gross profit does not equal net profit. For most businesses, net profit is usually quite slim. Also there is a large amount of capital that goes into many businesses of which the owner sees no return on long after their employees go home with a paycheck.

This is why socialism and capitalism work but on different levels for different purposes.

Socialism should exist for utilitarian things. Absolute must haves to survive, however these should be kept locally managed. Outside of the broader nation. Socialism works for a small community downwards.
However socialism fails to scale upwards for reasons I will outline here:

Certain geographical areas are better suited to produce certain things. These areas of expertise produce a valie that is not easily quantified, things as simple as farming through to complex medical care.

The problem with setting mandatory values in a managed system is that usually the people running it have no idea about what they are managing, and usually you get a better result leaving people to be responsible for their own actions when they are held accountable to themselves and what they produce.

The problem comes from moving to centralised management, which is a core tenant if I am not mistaken? I mean how else do you facilitate goods to the masses if they are not allowed to operate an independent free market?

Its a tough question, but I think it has been tried and has failed, a lot.

Hahahaha wow. Probably time to take a break for a bit man.

Its happening right in front if you. Right now its happening. The truth is coming out. Like lool around you.

Go back to Holla Forums man, you're fooling nobody.

No, it's just your mental illness getting worse.

many porkies are jews and benefit greatly from making the jew a protected class, I dont beleive in some grand conspiracy or some racial evil, just porkies turning their ancestry into a shield

Jews are not a 'protected class' just be because people won't accept your insane ravings about them.

Porky is a protected class. Jews are not.

More reactionary conservatism tactics.

I even provided a document that flat out states that jewish people were thrown in camps and shot but no we have to save that gas narrative eh?

Is it? I've seen a handful of sources proving the holocaust didn't happen, and hundreds or thousands proving it did. If you choose to cherry-pick what you believe in while ignoring the rest, that's your problem. Fabricating history on that sort of level just is not possible.

Look, you're not wrong. The average jew on the street is not some secret benefactor of a world wide conspiracy. However the creation of israel was part of an ongoing project that has existed for over a century before it was formed. Furthermore there is a fuck tonne of warcrimes beikg committed to make it happen.

'Reactionary conservatism', fucking lol. Are you the right person to talk, Holla Forums?
Gassed or shot, it shouldn't matter for anyone who doesn't buy into mental nazi conspiracies.

Fucking retard.

okay

>on imgur
That faggot should kill himself and you as well for not posting an archive link
archive.fo/yuwjD

Then your focus should be Porky, and not Jews.

Most significantly, nazi war crimes.


I for one don't think nazis should be awarded a platform.

Hate speech laws protect literally everyone, even people in the "majority" like whites.

I can go on social media and write "Fuck Porky!" and get a few likes, a few eye rolls, and that's about it.
If I go on Facebook and post "Fuck Jews" I will be fired from my job, my family will stop talking to me, my school might expel me and basically I'm screwed
If I deny the Holocaust I literally go to jail.
But Jews are not a protected class? 😏

Gassing, killing and raping of palestinians actually.

Invasion of golan heights specifically.

The west bank specifically.

The funding of terrorist organisations by israel, specifically.

Just because the Jews are assholes to the Palestinians doesn't mean the holocaust didn't happen.

It's not as much about protecting jews as oppressing nazi sentiment. Suffering for engaging in nazi idpol is a great thing.

And all of that was made possible through one significant event:
The Holocaust.

Why are you so hung up on holding on to your comservative views?

Yeah I always hear about minorities being sued for anti-white speech…

Brilliant.

Herman is but one single irrelevant media analyst whose poorly-sourced denialist book pales in comparison to the mountain of evidence supporting the reality of a Hutu-led Rwandan genocide. He's one of those "anti-imperialists" who jumped the shark and decided it's okay to support any claim as long as it supposedly hurts America's self-image.

By the way, nobody denies that many Hutus were killed during the genocide. Hutu Power militias were as eager to kill "traitors" as they were "cockroaches". Using that as "evidence" against genocide would be like saying the mass deaths of ethnic Europeans under Nazi rule goes against the reality of the Holocaust.

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In any case it's a good thing you would never engage in identitarian nonsense like proclaiming your hate towards minorities.

What is the haavara agreement.

I mean cmon now. If you're going to comment on history, at least learn it first.

Oh wait we arent allowed too now.

Projection.

Go back to tumblr with your idpol rants.

I am not a nazi though, I'm a lolberg. I'm not even really an antisemite. If people are dumb enough to fall for Jewish tricks then they deserve whatever they get. I just wish people were smarter.

It's possible, and it has happened. Just because the media doesn't report on it, and because minorities aren't assholes to whites as much as whites are assholes to minorities, doesn't change the literal interpretation of the law, itself.

The Shock!

Whataboutism.jpeg Minorities cannot be racist because they have no institutional power

I'm not the one raving about being hated for my skin color and then going on whining about not being able to express hatred towards others because of their skin color.

This is such a blank statement of objective fact, that I can't tell if your agreeing or disagreeing.

There's no reason a black man can't be the owner of a small business, and refuse to hire white people. All it would take for a court case is for a white man to take offense to this and raise a red flag. This is unlikely to happen because, surprise surprise, not too many white men who are wont to stir up the racism argument would even ATTEMPT to get employed by a black man.

You're suggesting Nazi Germany was in on the Zionist conspiracy?
Ladies and gentlemen, we've reached full circle.

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hahahahah are you for real

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DELET DIS

What number are we at the moment?
Around 2 to 5 Million depending on how you count?
2 Million Partisans in the East outside the Camps, 0 to 1 Million gassed with Zyklon B or Diesel Engine exhaust, and around 300k - 2 Million died from desease, hunger/overworking, allied bombing and liberation.

I can not care anymore, in my country it is illegal to question even the Nuremberg trials, and they claimed that the Germans used a miniature Atom Bomb to combust jews in Auschwitz on the spot (IMG Volume XVI, p. 529).

Too much propaganda and social engineering.

OP, just stay as you are.
There are only, so called, converging evidences that can be interpreted as you like, depending on what you want the result to be.

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I don't care what side of this argument you're on; that's fucking awesome and morbidly hilarious. It's also flagrant abuse of physics, but still great.

You are right, to a sane person the whole thing does not matter.
Some communists and their sympathisers died in labor camps or were shot in Anti Partisan Action.

Good thing we're on the same line. What nazis did more than 70 years ago shouldn't have to be relevant today, more than as to serve as an example of mass psychosis.

Unfortunately Holla Forumsyps insist on bringing this shit up so there's no choice but to expose nazi bullshit for being nazi bullshit still.

rebuilt by Russians
forced testimonies
lol

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"For most" still implies there's a piece that needs to be investigated and at least reformed. One of my favorites is the telecom industry in Canada. I pay some 70 bucks a month for a fucking unlimited calling/texting 1g of data. This is from the Bank of America Merrill Lynch Global Wireless Matrix 2015, shitty image I know but I got it from a Canadian non-profit called Open Media that focuses on internet privacy, net neutrality stuff like that. The price is absolutely barbaric in comparison to other countries and the Conservatives did fucking squat in their era to impede this bullshit, instead just creating policies that focused on availability. Banking,and Petroleum are also some of the worst offenders in comparison with their social value, both with massive needs for transparency and safety.
The thing is, we were serious when we called them opposites. Socialism, operating in Capitalism to us generally is bringing power (in its many forms, capital even) to the proletariat. We still call ALL the stages and even the so called ideal situation that would take place of the efforts towards fully ending the socioenconomic class structure that is proletariat/bourgeoisie, socialistic or communistic. I make the effort to distinctly use socialism as communist praxis for a country operating with capitalist structure around it. Socialist teleology of labour/commodities would then not only be production for use, but while still operating in a capitalist structure we use every inch of state policy to bring power to the labourer and end class distinction. Shift policies where we can while still maintaining economic growth, and helping shift the ideology of other countries towards this tendency in an effort to end exploitation. The reason why they are opposites lies exactly in capitalist tendency to the enforcement of the class distinction, real socialism/communism as it is figured seeks to abolish it completely with revolution or if you're a peaceful guy like me through reformism.
Sounds about right, decentralization and independence should be key in things like nationalization, which I assume is the topic.
These few sentences don't make sense together, just because areas of expertise produce hard to quanitify labour; how does this produce a downward swing in effectiveness when scaling upward in nationalized commodities? Or How does just because geographical areas are better suited to produce certain things, this produces a hard to quantify labor even though we live in the time of the money-form with easily available statistics of countries?
Is that it will fail in response to any changes it faces, we're just talking about nationalized corporations here. This is how any nationalized commodity/service keeps operating, they don't do this kind of shit.
This is flat out wrong, and refering to what I said before. How do any of these nationalized industries operate then?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nationalizations_by_country
So what your arguments amount to is a strawman of how nationalized companies operate, and a flat out misrepresentation of accountability in a "socialistic" company? May I be the one to say nod an argumend?
Centralized management is bad how? Is it somehow bad now that it has been nationalized, even though it operates distinctly as a company just under pure state interference? End-goal Communism has decentralization (in the transfer of power to local government) of industries as its key concept, while maybe leaving more mundane and simple tasks to central management.

If you’re going to discuss his work at least give him his due, it’s not like he’s some crank adjunct professor or something.

So much evidence that the UN couldn’t find the proof to convinct Hutu officials for premeditated genocide, right? Oh I remember, the official narrative gets around it by saying that it was spontaneous.

Ok, I remember now the catalyst of the genocide is supposed to be when the airplane carrying presidents Habyarimana and Ntaryamira were shot down. Oh wait, Kagame’s generals and others close to him in exile have recently come out and said that Kagame was the one who shot the plane down. That was reported in an in-depth BBC documentary and not by anti-imperialist intellectuals that you loath for daring to dissent on the matter.

Wouldn’t that be a little bit like if some former Bush officials admitted that 9/11 was an inside job? That might change the way people say the events of the afghan invasion.

“But that’s genocide denial!”says Kagame who is so bold he wants the BBC to refuse to air its documentary to the public. I wonder what he’s afraid of?

Again, there’s very little about this matter that isn’t carefully controlled by the regime which is as censorious as the Third Reich or maybe more so. You’re asking people to put their faith in a fascist regime that is one of the most genocidal in recent history.

Everywhere Congolese people go they protest, rebel and speak out about the crimes that Kagame has committed in continuing to occupy their country through proxy terrorist groups. Any time Kagame goes to Europe or America he’s met by grass-roots African opposition while brainwashed whites think he’s the second coming of Weisenthal

Let’s revisit the narrative too, so the majority of victims were Hutus whereas only a minority were Tutsis. Okay that goes against everything the world has been told but whatever. Herman draws on demographic evidence of the violence showing that the violence INCREASED as Kagame’s RPF entered each area. Ok, so maybe that doesn’t disprove that there was a genocide but it does show that the idea that Kagame stopped the genocide is a myth at the very least. If we combine that with the fact that Kagame’s forces were leading an invading force that illegally entered Rwanda from the OUTSIDE then it seems plausible when you look at the fact that the majority of victims were Hutu…

Again, the official accounts hardly even mention the fact that Rwanda was in a civil war and Paul Kagame was the aggressor. Only R2P legal revisionists can downplay this fact as aggressive war is considered the worst of all crimes by international crimes and with the precedent set at Nuremberg.

To say nothing of the fact that the public was told nothing about the class-based origins of the term Hutu and Tutsi. Whereas Hutu were considered to be the peasant majority and Tutsis were considered to be in the ruling class. The public was told nothing about the democratic revolution made by the Hutu majority that abolished this form of class privilege in the 1960s.The public was not told that Kagame is or considers himself an aristocrat and considers the destruction of the Tutsi-controlled aristocratic order a bad thing.

One Rwandan academic in exile in America was recently persecuted for speaking out on this issue and others counterpunch.org/2016/07/27/rwanda-the-clinton-dynasty-and-the-case-of-dr-leopold-munyakazi/

If you've been made to believe that the holocaust happened, you can probably be made to believe anything.

I’ve pointed this out several times already. Nazis can’t handle this fact because it goes against their narrative.

I’ll say this much, it does go against the Zionist myth that the Palestinian ethnic cleansing and the foundation of Israel was the result of the Holocaust. They say that in order to whitewash what they did but Zionist colonization began in the 1890s and slowly accelerated with the settlers progressively getting more violent as time progressed. The Naqba probably would have happened even if there wasn’t a Holocaust

And a self-hating Jew who criticized the Jews for being porkies

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OP here. It actually was a productive pursuit. My current concept of what happened:

Whites do everything better.