Marxist-Leninist debunks Guy Debord


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I wouldn't call what this person is doing 'debunking' so much as it is trying to disentangle the term from capitalism, which is fair game I suppose - though I have some doubts that someone reading Society of the Spectacle today wouldn't necessarily believe that 'the spectacle' could not have meaning in non-capitalized spaces.

that fucking pic
And then fags who won't shut up about muh Western culture would laugh at this vandalism.


Yeah. I went for the clickbait, sorry.

There are several parts in SotS where Debord deals with how the Spectacle works in the USSR, the Spectacle is intrinsic to industrial society, is not something that the rulling classes do, it is not bread and circus it's immanent to the social body itself.

What Debord was getting at is precisely that they are both Spectacle

Dropped. Why do people feel the need to write long articles about things they clearly have no understanding of?

Please tell me that his answer to "what wouldn't be considered Spectacle?" wouldn't be just "bare walls".

It's society at a certain stage of development. Debord placed its start around ~1927 ("in 1967 it had barely forty years behind it"). So anything before that is a good choice.

Maybe murals from local artists that don't fetishize country leaders or obbiously bad for you capitalist products?


Murals are shit. Bare walls are better. Fucking punks

can you talk for a minute about art in the SU without sperging out?

so powdered wigs, foot binding, Cato the Elder etc etc are not a not a part of the spectacle?
Catholicism was not a part of the spectacle with all the theatrical rituals?

fuck off

you sound like those "jeebus was commie" guys. was alexander the great imperialist?

I know Debord is often accused of saying this, but it's not what he actually said.

The utopian side of the situationists is not very explicit on Debord's society of the spectacle, but it's worth reading into. The situationists had a background in the avant garde and weirdo post surrealist movements, they dreamed of a future in which every second of living experience would be a mindblowing work of art in its own right. sure beats socialist wages, a socialist boss and very socialist mountains of commodities accumulated for the glory of the party.

dude how is Christendom was not an ultimate spectacle?

what is this even supposed to mean?
with that kind of expectations you might as well believe in god and heaven

So I'm not an M-L, probably more of a LibSoc, although I think that Lenin was a pretty neat guy.

This guy's analysis of Spectacle is either poorly written or blatantly wrong because overgeneralised.

However, I like what he has to say about personality types and the need to avoid encouraging 'splitting defences', the kind of paranoia where you turn the world into "good/me/my Party/purity" vs "evil/Other/capitalism/impurity".

Arguments against the purity instinct are a vital part of what we should be doing on the left today, because the purity instinct/splitting defence is the (rational, under circumstances of capitalist formation) shithead non-materialist mindset that gives us both liberal-SJWs and anarkiddie lifestyle purists - the mindset that "to be good I must maintain total personal purity by purifying myself of sins" and then you get people who place their veganism, "a fucking white male!" bullshit, listening to 'the right music' etc. over material concerns. It is nothing new - Tolstoy, for instance, did it explicitly - but it is very silly.

Because the spectacle is a specific development in history, not just everything based on illusion. Debord makes it very clear in both of his books about the Spectacle. Maybe read the Situationists' works instead of reducing it to absurd bullshit so you can claim that Stalin wasn't a faggot?

better than looking forwards to a life of socialist commodities, socialist cops, socialist wages and a socialist boss imo. I smile a little when ML LARPers try to present themselves as muh reasonable socialist pragmatists even after the collapse of the USSR and deindustrialisation. What's your positive vision of the future beyond nostalgia for 'actually existing socialism'? Even Lenin looked forward to World Revolution and the withering away of the state, which was actually a real possibility right after WWI. The utopian spirit survived on to the 20s with the constructivists and the futurists. It's important to try and be more dialectical, recognise conditions have changed tremendously and keep in mind the final objective of human liberation, which does not mean 'cool parades with tanks and stuff'

sounds like debord was just butthurt about mass consumer cinema and 3d glasses
it's always like this with those snobbish culture folks
as soon as their secrit club entertainment goes widespread they lose their shit and screech about the lowest common denominator
same thing with Adorno

show me on the doll where he touched you

pretty sure that labor was not a commodity
and means of production too
but of course you as a faggot dogmatic do not accept half measures
it's all or nothing amiright?

so if someone steals your personal property or public property what are you gonna do? gather a lynch mob?
if someone kills your parents will you go full batman or what?

sorry sweetie, until majority of work is automated you'll need to get your ass out of your mom's basement
sure you could get you neetbux, but nobody likes leechers, be it capitalists or otherwise
social pressure will force your ass out, especially when society can guarantee you work
pay according to work is just a necessity until required human labor input becomes marginal

so you never worked in your entire life
any labor process requires hierarchy and discipline

shit happens
especially when you disorganize production and logistics by your perestroika economic policies

lel, tell about deindustrialization bangladeshi textile workers, or foxconn employees
who is gonna pick your cofvefe beans if your country suddenly got embargoed?

guaranteed work according to education
free education for all, nevermind age or sex
opportunity to receive higher education while working as it was widespread in the SU
guaranteed housing
no more closed-source software, no more artificial scarcity
possibly even no more fees for internet access (at least in the specified bandwidth range), just like there are no fees for education
possibly no more housing fees as they were symbolic in the SU anyway
planned periodic reduction of prices be they expressed in labor vouchers or otherwise based on the increased productivity of labor
reduced working day based on the increased productivity of labor
etc etc

for me it is all much more attractive than some mind blowing sensual paradise orgy or whatever
go snort some coke if you want sensual explosion

It's more likely he was butthurt about advertising than cinema. But that doesn't make his theory of the Spectacle any less precise.

underrated post