Fascists

Fascists cannot be "converted" in the sense that you can talk with and debate them. They, like everyone else, have two options: they follow their solutions to their dead end and continue to be frustrated at why nothing changes, or they can start asking questions as to why. You can talk with a Fascist all fucking day about material reasons for this or that, it won't matter a single bit if they're still spooked about certain things.

We don't.

So basically wait 3 years for when Trump has (unsurprisingly) not delivered on a single campaign promise despite having a republican majority in all branches. Because I'd bet my last dollar that will be a mighty big wake up call to his more fervent supporters.

Pointing out inconsistencies in their own framework, avoiding patronizing tones, firm stand against idpol from a humanist standpoint
We convert them to biofuel, natch

99% of modern fascists are Rootless Cosmopolitans that hate their families and communities and spend their entire lives online The thing is, there actually isn't anything wrong with this; the only thing is that that translates to being fucking shit on materially in the current nepotist system as the privileges of their identity continue to fade. Fascists strive to have their identity's privilege re-asserted because they're too scared to face the world otherwise; our solution should be pointing out that the world can be changed, and that the world can genuinely be made into a meritocratic, free one, where they are free to express themselves without having to suck up to people they don't like.

It's more effective wording to point out that he spent three years in the Oval Office tweeting and getting mad at cable news instead of actually fixing trade. In 2020 they are absolutely going to claim that antifa and the dems obstructed them and they need four more years to get the job done, so have Trump's incompetence and laziness up your sleeve for that argument

sage for doubleposting

Couldn't agree more.

You're claiming that there are no arguments, and taking that to the logical conclusion means that you just want to kill them all rather than spend any time convincing these people you've made up your mind are impossible to convert. This is blackpilled cynicism taken to the extreme.

point out the fact that under world socialism the majority of people from the middle east and africa would have no reason to go to europe or america

also show them this picture of PFLP soldiers doing the roman salute to help them relate

This. At best we can show them that another world is possible and see what they have to say. Most will refuse to change and that is perfectly acceptable. There is always room in the gulag for more reactionaries.

reassuring, but I don't think so.

I think you raise a good question OP. I think its foolish to take a pessimistic stance as most ""liberals"" or democrats do that rightwing individuals are impossible to convert to leftist ways of thinking and denouncing them as rednecks or idiots with a revolting intellectual snobbery that has more to do with cultural differences than actual difference in intellect. Just look how the USSR during WWII "converted" a shitton of German POWs from Stalingrad into Marxists through reeducation camps. There was an element of coercion, but the Soviets actually didn't need to push too hard before waves of
soldiers were able to see that Nazi Germany were, indeed, the warmongering imperialists they actually were.

they basically already are you guys are just retarded

Some bullshit anchored thread.

Also keep in mind that Mussolini was a socialist and even fucking Hitler was likely elected officer of a soviet-type Soldier's committee in his barracks in Munich during the failed Bavarian revolution. This was before Hitler departed on his career of right-wing demagogue. In other words, ideological boundaries are fluid and based on life circumstances, but persistence and reasoned, cool-headed argument (which is appreciated in an environment of shitposting)

solid idea

Oh boy, it's one of you people again

cont.
can easily convert or at least impress opponents. The key though imo is having a very good grounding in History and Current Affairs. It's showing through historical details and nuanced arguments that people haven't heard before that are effective imo. You have to show that there are alternate narratives and interpretations.

pbs.org/wgbh/nova/next/body/hatred/

Long but interesting.

Oh, i forgot to talk about their response. Usually, they will say something along the lines of "if jews are removed then capitalism can work". In response to this, you can say two things; 1 - the bourgeoisie which communists and socialists hate so much are largely jewish/kosher so the revolution will actually remove most of them anyways and 2 - if jews are removed under capitalism then someone (likely those kosher white guys i talked about in the last sentence) will take their place. Capitalism is inherently built to reward greed. Both of these points will at least get them to think twice about supporting their kosher political leaders.

Fascists are a function of their social class. They are petty bourgeoisie or higher and don't want the system to change. There is no way to convince them to embrace communism.

You just have to wait…

By appealing to their repressed homosexuality.

We don't. We use them to convert liberals to our cause.

Do we really want them?

Tbh, it will always be easier to convince a conservative or near-fascist then a liberal because on some level at the very least they recognize that something is deeply wrong with the system and it must be fundamentally changed, they just completely miss the mark along the way and blame outside factors. Liberals on the other hand will just defend "humane" capitalism as far as they can stretch it, even when they claim to be class conscious.

lol dude fuck that, I've tried to discuss on pol why cultural marxism is bullshit, even explaining in detail how dialectics evolved in western philosophy from aristotle, spinoz, hegel etc. but basically they were like "i may not be able to trace it, but when marx modified it, THATS when it became dangerous jewish postmodern cultural marxism hehe owned!!1!" There's no talking to these guys they literally just dismiss any argument or evidence as LUL JEWISH SHILL. They are fucking beyond all reason. Remember fascism is about aesthetics, not a reasoned moral case. Any logic or stats backing them up comes after the fact, they made up their mind in advance already

This.

Shit thread, fuck this Holla Forums shit

That sounds like a great idea user! Would be helpful for educating some of the more literate polyps

I don't know about a near fascist. But, a conservative who isn't racist (racism gets in the way of understanding a materialist analysis of history) is way the fuck easier than some lib who was "#WithHer". Liberals are generally racist, just in a much different way than Holla Forums is or the way Holla Forums thinks they are.

Be honest, do you think conservatism isn't inherently racist? I can't help but feel like American conservatives are racists by default. Some might have a wake up call and realize they're on the wrong team, but most of them are conservative *because* it caters to their "white heritage" dog whistle politics. I really can't seperate the two, and never have been able to. I think there can be "non racist" liberals who are converted to socialism far easier than a bunch of spooked conservatives that are unironic KKK members or Nazi sympathizers.

Especially among the Bernie crowd I'd say this is true. They are much closer to socialism than any conservative ever will be, because they know the "small business" "Free Market" bullshit propaganda is just a way to cater to rich white middle class men. They are spooked as fuck on idpol, and I don't deny how large of a problem that is, but I think this thread is loaded with people who either never talk to reactionaries or underestimate just how openly hostile they are to anything that is actually "left wing".

No, fascists are fascists because they gave up on "figuring it out". That is it – they draw their own conclusions and stick with that and form the facts around it later.

This just comes off as fascist apologia, like they somehow just didn't see the error in their ways, or something. They know exactly what people disagree with them on, they've had facts put in front of them many times over, but they are either too stupid and stubborn, or even worse, really smart, and just trying to dupe others to fall for their bullshit.

Liberals are shit, but the people in this thread preaching sympathy for fascists all deserve gulag, I'm not even fucking kidding

It is not intellectual snobbery to call out hostile opponents of communism, be they fascists or just general reactionaries. It is one of the most important tasks if you are even remotely serious about socialism. Ask yourself, are any fascists giving lefties the "benefit of the doubt" as they gain more power? Fuck no, so why do you insist that people be nice?

Every week it seems there is a thread for this type of shit, and yet, on other threads whining about antifa, people talk about how "white nationalists/nazis are so irrelevant xD xD"

…

Well, if they are, then who the fuck cares about "converting" any of them? They are the enemy, there will always be people who stand in the way, and they should get the fuck out if they refuse to step aside

American conservatives are divided into alt right, libertarian, religious type who are more about Christianity than race (ex rick santorum), basic bitch pro business conservative (jeb bush etc), survival/gun nuts & conspiritards(alex jones type) etc

You've never met actual fascists, then, simple as that. They would just pound you to a fucking pulp if you started talking about communism or even hinted at it.

Sure, that is very true.

I guess, giving your divisions, I would peg libertarians as the most amenable to socialist discussions.

I know that the closest I ever came to going to the right was right around 2012 with Ron Paul. However, I started to see the chinks in the armor when all he ever did was defend corporations. After that, I became an Obama liberal, and finally, after endless disappointment with libs on guns and workers rights, i realized i'd been a socialist all along, just sorely mistaken about my positions.

I think there are many people like me, but I guess, the point i'm trying to make in this thread, is that there are plenty of right wingers that are class conscious and aware of their position relative to others. They are not "mistaken" in their views, and socialists intending to "convert" them in some kind of rational debate are horribly naive, even more naive than the Obama liberals. To them, it's about making shit harder for everyone but themselves. They don't fucking care about your snowflake ideology, or making the world better. It is literally "Fuck You, I Got Mine" politicking, and they love it. There is TONS of people in America like this, and I truly believe they will never change. They are too brainwashed to be "saved", no matter how naively you want to "convert" them. Time is better spent going into working class neighborhoods where people don't bother voting at all. They're more likely to listen than a bunch of white bread upper class folks as people insist here.

The level you people are willing to debase yourself to in order to win over fascists is rather revealing. Fuck this shit thread

so communism?

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why would you want that you stupid idiot OP
gtfo
they only make things look bad

You're thinking of capitalism. But I don't think workers elect the CEO.

That is the most basic propaganda meme tier version of gommunismsism. I bet you even think this is all so I can get paid $100k working at McDombles as a fry slave because I am so retarded that I think a physician does equally technical work as I do.

Force them to bathe and stop pissing in cups trying to win internet war

Speaking of which, it seems to be an extremely common yet very rarely acknowledged canard of Holla Forums and the alt-right that fascism can somehow exist without war. A whole lot, probably a majority, of these fash LARPers you see just plain don't know constant imperialistic war is an absolute necessity of the system. They just think of "look how hitler lift germany fast strong" and think that's all there is to fascism. I wonder how many of them could be despooked simply by reading basic definitions and history of fascism, like Eco's essay on ur-fascism.

Oh hey I remember that guy.

They're too spooked.

Im not talking about Holla Forums. Thats like kicking the hornets nest. Im talking about /his/ and ither 4chan frontier areas not full of hivemind drones. That said even on Holla Forums its not about the user you argue with bit the people who are lurking

Im not saying we should treat them kindly. Im all for calling out their and hostility. As it is im talking about internet debating not real life reactionaries. The internet is a discreet place where one has the discretion of digesting ideas in private. Debating a reactionary in public is dangerous cause theres elements of social pride and pressure at work

we don't

I was a former Fascist and got converted to nazbolism and later leftism after evalion kept posting ani-capitalism memes on twitter

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A bullet to the head

you seem easily influenced, likely a moron.

Gulag is the only answer

Can someone explain the infatuation with tiki torches?

Ur-fascism is the eternal jew of a certain kind of leftist, the enemy inside.

You don't. Just have a revolution and then send them to the gulag. Anyone who would've held fascist views would've inevitably become a counter-revolutionary at some point.

I assume you will have to reeducate them. This is no easy task. What needs to happen is for them to become disillusioned with their shit-tier ideology and to become more open to being class consciousness. Many are already disillusioned, I think, but are so isolated that they do not receive outside perspective. We clearly need to infiltrate their discords.

Fascists are fighting the class war.

You spooked memetard.

For the bourgeois. You don't say.

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I dont want these people in our ranks

I think we must do this. Those dastardly enemies of ours are using up all the rage capital that rightfully belongs to us! I think we must get past moralism, understand why they think what they do instead of just writing them off, and think about what we actually want to do for ourselves anyhow.

We also need some real good args/prop to rehabilitate communism. If it weren't for the negative hype communism gets it would be the most obvious idea in the world. All our movies are about the underdogs overthrowing the bullies and finding a better way. Communism is the better way.

So, I guess it's that we should understand why people have these wrongheaded attachments to muh national sovereignty etc and address their anxieties. If they're worried about some seemingly dangerous other, well, our muh movement will get around to those people too! And we'll make it snappy. If we can set up a division of labor it's like, not that hard. It's just we can't agree on a common goal to work towards. If we could get thousands of people to concentrate on reaching out, education, and organization for communism I'm sure it would work well.

Then the problem is the real goons with le nukes, not these jokers who bring pukes.

You guys do realize that most of the kids are petty bourgeoisie or higher right? They are never going to embrace leftism.

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This.

this is an apathetic apolitical shitposter just fyi before anyone strains themself

Fam the entire point of fascism is to replace the jewish burguoise with somehow less jewish burguoise while keeping everything the way it is, because if things stay exactly as they are everything will in some magical way become better

kids don't own banks and corporations you retard

Their suburban daddies do though.

ETHNO COMMUNES
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We don't.

Real talk, to convert a nazi, first you have to de-nazify him. You won't be making many - if any - converts through discourse because their ideology isn't really based on logic so much as feelings. De-nazification rarely happens, but when it does, it happens because their convictions receive such a severe blow of cognitive dissonance(ie the dissonance between the reality they observe and their beliefs of how reality operates) that they are forced into introspection and realize what a crock of shit the ideology they've been conned into following is. Mind you, most of the time they'll just retreat further into delusion, but it's worth trying, because it still has the best chance of success.