USSR Hate

It's literally just Muke shitposting.

Kronstadt and Ukraine I get, but I still don't understand hating the USSR because of Catalonia. Didn't they help them train soldiers and shipped weapons and other stuff over there as well?

What exactly do you love so much about the USSR?

They did a lot to help CNT-FAI initially, but eventually betrayed them, helping put an end to their revolution

But how? What did they do?

They played a big part in taking down a legitimiate leftist movement, simply because it was a slightly different flavor of leftism. Think about that for a minute, let that sink it. They without a doubt fucked with a proletariat revolution in another country. What does that tell you about the SU's intentions? Did they actually give a fuck about the workers or consolidating the power of their own state?

I'm not even inherently anti-soviet or anything, but you have to admit that's fucked up and understand why ardent ancoms would have an issue with them, right?

They sided with nationalists. The communist party was soviet backed and fought the catalonian anarchists

It did? I thought all leftist groups had allied to fight Franco, I did hear some time ago something about stalinists taking away the anarchist's weapons. Was that it?

It is fucked up, yeah, I'd like to get more into the specifics of how and if possible of why they did it.

No because anarchists apologize for exactly the same kind of shit on a regular basis. They'll suck off any petty regime that calls itself "anarchist" regardless of it's behavior just as surely as any Marxist will worship any state with a hint of red on it's flag.

isreview.org/issues/53/makhno.shtml

You're all scum. The SU deserves to be criticized but any criticism of it from an anarchist angle always ends up being a bland copy+paste of 30's fascist propaganda.

Because the USSR makes communism look bad, and we are tired of having to defend the USSR or explain how it doesn't represent our vision of communism.

I ask again, what do you like so much about the USSR? What is the best thing about the USSR?
Was it the military? The standard of living? The fact that Stalin took a backwards agricultural state and made a superpower?

tl:dr, the local communist party (with the help of Soviet agents) where in the war to support the republican state, and denounced the proletarian revolution. This obviously led to tensions between the two, and when infighting broke out the communists and republicans ended up as winners, arresting and destroying the CNT-FAI power structures. During this time Soviet had also stopped supplying arms to CNT-FAI. After that the local communists teamed up with the local middle classes to dismantle the collectivized farming (now run by peasants) and return the land to the farmers.

I don't necessarily "like it" I'm just saying it had admirable qualities and that it's establishment is somewhat inspiring.

Okay, thank you very much.

What admirable qualities are you referring to?

Anarchists claim the soviets betrayed them when in fact it was themselves who betrayed Spain

Anarchists with no knowledge of history shouting nonsense about """betrayal""" to cover their own incompetence and lack of discipline at the Spanish Civil War

In what way were the Spanish Anarchists incompetant?

Because Grover Furr said so.

Yeah but seriously, what did they do wrong that every other anarchist wouldn't do?
And speaking of them, what is a good example of anarchism working IRL?

They helped dismantle the army to start with.

we gon kill the urss was socialist meme, son. it benefits nobody but the right wingers anyways.

I'm not sure what every other anarchist would do, there is no one true anarchist praxis. Invisible Commitee/Tiqqun have some interesting ideas you can look into.
There isn't any more than any other socialist tendency working irl.

thought those peeps were leftcom

Well an army is the most infamous form of hierarchy & is always used as a tool to suppress the working class. I'm not saying it's a good idea, but how is that not in line with anarchist thinking?

They're anarchist, but communization leftcoms are just pretentious anarchists in denial anyways.

Its how we fraternize.

After a entire year of leftypol I went from being a butthurt plebbitor to somebody that is not quite a tankie, but not quite an anarkiddie either. Because honestly, all of you are niggers.

But you're MY niggers

TOP LEL

To dismantle the army while Spain is under siege by 3 fascist powers is very in line with anarchist thinking.

tankies suck man. they're worthless. they got no tanks anymore even through they like to pretend
they don't have balls either they're not on the streets revolting like us, sending the message, they alienate and make the left weaker, they're against socialism since it's just state capitalism. they fuck everything up. ghosts of the past that are better left buried with the past.

If having a standing army is anarchist, you might as well call Stalin an anarchist.
Armies cost money to operate. Money comes from taxation. Taxation requires a police force. A police force costs money too. So more taxation. And if you don't constantly expand the size & technological capabilities of your army, you get invaded & conquered by those who do.
So who is collecting the taxes anyway? Government bureaucrats do. Who determines tax policy? The people? How do they vote on it? If I had a choice in how much money I gave to my state, I'd give 0 dollars and 0 cents. Maybe you are more patriotic to your state than I am. Maybe not. But I don't think anyone here is naive enough to believe that the average person would want to spend much maintaining an army, the police force, and paying the government bureaurocrats that collect the taxes. So you'd need a Soviet Council running things and setting tax collection policies.
That's a fucking state.
So in order to field a capable army, you require a state.

But please tell me how you would field an army without a state.

I think there are just a load of "anarchists" that are pretty ignorant. But I can't tell exactly because there are no flags. God I miss the flags.

Is this how you think human anarchists type? It's pretty bad, like you're a chat bot.

...

only one of these has any theoretical accomplishments

Holla Forums is a communist board, get the fuck out state cappy scum

I cringed

Also please articulate to me what "state capitalism" is without just telling me to read something or linking a pdf written by an anarcho-liberal you stupid fuck

I'm not sure where you're getting at. You asked why the anarchists were incompetent during the civil war.

Unfortunately, the introduction of state capitalism with us is not proceeding as quickly as we would like it. For example, so far we have not had a single important concession, and without foreign capital to help develop our economy, the latter’s quick rehabilitation is inconceivable.

lenin

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1922/nov/14b.htm

reading these essays and books is what makes me a fucking communist and you a worthless red fascist

read a book or kill yourself

This blind hatred for the USSR verges on ridiculous.

found the redditor

You are both redditors.

how faggot

Your

Spacing

Gives

You

Away

It is because a large portion of both USSR sympathizers and detractors on this board stuff their faces with dogmatic hatred and/or defense of the country and cannot understand that there is much good as well as flaws to be found in arguably the first attempt at establishing socialist society longer than several years. It is the 21st century, a different time, a different world. This means that material conditions are different and as such an attempt in establishing state socialism might not end tragically as it did decades ago, nor does it mean that the successes that the USSR achieved can be so easily replicated. We have to see how things develop. Till then the best thing you can do is read the classics and ideas that build on the past and train.

I agree you seem to be a redditor

Oh yes the other type of Socialism where Capitalists just give up. Why didn't they try that? I guess they didn't have enough freedoms?

why are tankies such idealists?

I'm aware that shitty propaganda makes the USSR look worse than it was, but it was hardly a paradise tbh. Being critical of the left's past failures shows maturity, stop being so attached to the failures of our past.

I Believe that it is because more people are waking up to the fact that the soviet union never achieved anything close to socialism it was either a social-democracy with a fuckton of central planning or out-right capitalist almost all of its existence

I think people have begun to understand that state-socialism is just to idealist to work and relies to much on demagogues and totalitarianism

I'm more concerned with the number of people who unironically repeat neoliberal propaganda about central planning honestly.

Well until a cockshott-esque society could be achieved central-planning wont work tbh
in all "socialist" countries that its attempted it either devolves into a social-democracy minus democracy AKA china or goes right back to capitalism like the Soviet Union

It is true. Getting rid of an army was a bad idea.
But it's kind of a catch 22. Either you deconstruct the state and get conquered or you build up the state and cease being anarchists.

And if they would have kept the army in support of the united front against Franco, what would stop the Republicans from crushing proletarian movements? I personally don't care about anarchist v marxist conflicts decades before I was born but it seems foolish for any leftist to trust liberals as can be seen by the immediate change in policy towards the USSR post-WW2.

It’s hated because it was a less desireable place to live than most other countries.

What the hell is the original poster?

anarchism.pageabode.com/anarcho/on-the-bolshevik-myth

its a bunch of anarkiddies/libsocs sperging out because immigration from reddit has been shoahing them hard and making them a minority on the board, plus a few were banned for isreal/imperialism shilling.

good, as someone with more sympathy for the USSR, I'm glad to see this, although I do think hardcore old school ML's like unruhe need to read more modern theoryalthusser, cockshott, etc.

Nigger please, catalonia would have lost to franco anyway, anarchism cant even work, because it doesn't have a way to defend the revolution without a hardcore DOTP

So that would be that the theory is wrong and you just have to find out what really works. this is a non issue. you have to do what works, not conform to an identity.

althusser is way more old school than any youtube ml will ever be.

There's a difference between coming to a nuanced understanding about the failures but also achievements of the USSR and just flat out hating on it.

In what universe do you life?
Krondsant wasn't anarchist, and Catalonia was defeated by external forces.

still less old school than Stalin, etc.

...

I'd like to see an anarchist society accomplish 1% of what any socialist government has in history. Go on I'm waiting for that anarchist society that invented spaceflight and defeated fascism OH WAIT
KYS

liberal detected

Anarchists don’t give a rats ass about the working class. They are literally some of the most self serving pretentious faggots youll ever meet on Earth. These motherfuckers even out-do religious fundamentalists when it comes to bullshitting.

google bookchin

You mean the lolbert guy?

done

is this an actual fucking quote god dam

See:

Two things:
1. That quote is from Post-Scarcity Anarchism, which was written during the height of the youth counter-culture
2. That book is from Bookchin's anarchist period, not his Communalist period.