Trots or DSA?

I've done some work with ISO. They are okay: not quite a weird as most Trot parties.

And apparently they have a communist caucus now (I don't know what's it like though)

twitter.com/dsacommunists

I think he should join the dsa and either push it left or look for actual leftists to scalp.

But saying dsa is the "last best hope for leftism" is dumb (and wrong).

I'm in DSA Refoundation and it's already flooded with idpol LARPers. Meh.

Neither.

Leftism in America, silly. Remember, this is the country that got racked by two red scares and served as the gilded beacon of Capitalism for over half a decade.

Some countries don't even have the semblance proper leftist party. It's quite unfortunate.

What sort of good work?

Greentext?

I really don't like to participate in leftist orgs and I have participated in the past. Having worked with both these orgs, though never a member of either, I will recommend DSA. ISO is super controlling and their leaders have a bunch of super shady investments that you can read about here: externalbulletin.org/2014/02/01/questions-and-concerns-about-the-iso-and-cersc/

DSA. Yeah I know but still

No PSL?

neither

PSL

stop posting the inferior.

I would check out DSA. Although they have their issues, the organization is growing and more in a state of flux and therefore there's more opportunity to push it left. ISO may already be more left but from my experience with them, they're pretty stagnant and stuck in their ways. Very little appeal outside of college campuses with actual workers. I don't really see much radical potential there, just endless boring meetings.

Join APL, build bunkers.

I'm a dirty anglo Canadian, what choices do I have other than the fucking NDP or Council of Canadians

Join the DSA then wait until they repeal their rule on joining democratic centralists orgs and then also join the ISO. Also join the IWW for max left memery

ISO's leadership has some pretty questionable views, but the membership is full of really good comrades. I'd recommend joining, though SAlt would be much more preferable if you can find a branch.

in terms of voting for a party that could actually win then yeah NDP is the obvious choice. of course, there is a communist party. communist-party.ca/platform

PSL

Mutal aid relief, unionisation, broad-fronting with teh ISO, SAlt and IWW, getting independents & Greens elected, legiti anti-fascist action RIP Heather Hayer , organisation with international groups (Momentum lads have gone over there, and momentum has the best praxis in the west atm) and actually building a movement. They also read fucking theory so that's nice.

> communist-party.ca/platform
CPC confirmed for libertarian entryism

What do the ISO even do?

Do they have a single achievement to their names?

The only orgs worth joining are DSA, SocAlt, PSL and Serve the People.

I don't think he has to wait as the rule isn't enforced at all.

ISO tends to be pretty much limited to college campuses.

there's also the CPC-ML

...

Wow, that sounds too good to be true. I'll definitely check out DSA sometime

Be real with me though, are they bootlickers?

youtube.com/watch?v=XgqdWYTYfuQ

All the PSL members in my city (one of the cities where it is most prevalent) are the larpeist of larpers.

isn't the CPC already a Marxist-Leninist party?

...

this "ML" sounds like a leftcom

I've heard shady things about the CPC and they seem eager to adopt idpol causes

CPC-ML is our unironic tankie party. They used to have some pull in the auto unions but I'm unsure if that's still the case

Both are worse.

Don't join opportunist groups. Go to some DSA meetings if you must, but don't give that scam organization a single cent of your hard-earned wages.

PSL is amateur town.

Yes that is how they describe themselves, MLPC are Hoxhaist MLs.

they want to get rid of the anti-Islamophobia laws that all the J. Peterson aut-righters cry about. as for their support of indigenous peoples, well we are still a settler state.
idk, he kept calling the USSR the "Soviet Socialist Imperialists" in that video.

So? Every concrete proposal I've heard for "decolonizing" Canada just involves transferring ownership of land from the crown or white corporations to band councils. You still wind up with land being owned.

Build the APL you revisionist yankees.

DSA are just socdem hangers-on.
ISO are counterrevolutionary Trots.
PSL are a bunch of Brezhnevites.

The second page on their website. Hmmm.

stick hoxha on that first t-shirt and i'd buy one

what's their deal? i just saw their twitter account. seems like just slightly edgier rhetoric tbh

TBH I fucking love these memes

They want to turn the org into a leftist party instead of a pressure group for the Dems. That's their intention anyways. A lot of them are still Our Revolution people. One of them is organizing a Jacobin reading group. Meh.

Unironic bunker, the Stalin fetishism is cringey as fuck and does need to stop. Design below that one is pretty cool though.

The people that started APL are fucked and you have to be a retard to join an unironic Hoxhaist party.

liberals
LARPers
literally who

Albuquerque?

DSA

Serve the People is the closest thing to a functional Maoist org that isn't just a cult.

And yeah, I like how "liberal" has come to mean anyone insufficiently revolutionary/dogmatic and "LARPer" has come to mean anyone insufficiently reformist/opportunist and posters think they can accuse others of both without coming across as a tool.

It is not unreasonable to suggest that you should be both sufficiently revolutionary and dogmatic. That is exactly what the tradition of Bolshevism is. SAlt literally pours all their energy into city council campaigns, almost ignoring the centenary of the October revoltuion

, while PSL "takes to the streets" waving Soviet flags and making Facebook posts about how the DPRK is actually really good. Neither of their tactics are acceptable.

We had a thread about DSA Refoundation. They have bylaws they haven't thought through: dsarefoundation.org/bylaws/ In one section they describe some committee to be elected with reserved seats for women and non-whites, and in another section they describe the voting procedure that doesn't do anything to meet these requirements. So, if what's written there is to be taken literally, they will elect a committee, check whether the diversity requirement is met, if not -> go do another election, and if they have to, another and maybe another one after that, you do that until the result meets the requirements.

Another problem is that non-white isn't well-defined. It would make more sense to do something like pic related for the men-women issue and either drop the ethnic thing entirely or come up with a precise definition and have a separate election for that ethnic rep and only with people voting who also meet that definition. That definition could be like this: At least one of these things applies to you: 1. You weren't born in the US. 2. At least one of your parents wasn't born in the US. 3. You have American slaves among your ancestors. (Yes, this can include some pale people.)

ISO is a cult. DSA has it's bad points, but it has enormous potential at this moment and a lot of room to grow over the next few years. I'd say join the DSA and agitate and try to push it as far to the Left as you can. This is what every Leftist in the US should be doing right now.

This.

APL is a fucking joke.

If Ismail is an indication of what the average APL member is like, I think I'll pass.

Aren't they directly connected to the Red Guards though? Because those guys definitely seem like a cult to me.

I assume he says this with the RCP in mind which is a literal cult as opposed to just being cultish.

Fair enough.

This kind of diversity quota bullshit is trash that breeds incompetence no matter how you attempt it.

How so?

DSA is a wide tent organisation and local chapters differe a lot. There are also caucuses now if you want to join up with ideologically similar people to you. Some factions are clearly bootlickers, but in general the organisation is fine and doesnt stop you from doing your own stuff on the side.

What are all the Caucuses?

ISO ARE EXTREMELY PRO IMPERIALIST

They gave unwavering support to both the Libyan and Syrian jihadist "revolutions" and are even supportive of Ukraine. Tread carefully with these lunatics.

or LA, PSL would be cool if they did less "North Korea is good!" and more actual worker outreach