Israel/Palestine General Thread

inb4 20 replies

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10 posts in and hasbara is already here

Wonder Woman please go

mods removing bait posts

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its been established like 0932840980 threads back that jews from marseilles and chichago can fuck off back to where they came from.
stop making these threads, because its always just some fags that jerk off to wonderwoman autistically screeching and getting laughed at by everyone else.

the weather is pleasant today in Israel.

The absolute state of german antifa

you mean in palestine, john goldberg.

I don't care if I pay my taxes to king Bibi or the Sultan, so call the place whatever you want.

But admit it, Holla Forums's problem is that they just want to replace Israeli nationalism with Palestinian nationalism.

israeli nationalism isnt a thing tho.the closest thing is zionism, and that always led to worse things than arab nationalism.

Has it? Arab nationalists have done and still do absolutely horrible things, as a board that loves Rojava so much should know.

they dragged WW1 on to buy palestine from the british empire, then they occupied that land and went on to drag a genocide for over half a century while pretending to be the victim.
arab nationalism so far only resulted in local conflicts among rival arab forces.
that place is a circlejerk of NEETs that havent even heard the word "kurd" before 2016

Except
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Feyli_Kurds_under_Saddam_Hussein
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anfal_genocide
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_chemical_attack
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ba'athist_Arabization_campaigns_in_North_Iraq
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_in_Darfur
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Rojava#Arabization_in_Northern_Syria
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_exodus_from_Arab_and_Muslim_countries
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_graves_in_Iraq
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_rights_in_Saddam_Hussein's_Iraq
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kosheh_massacres

Zionism is pure evil but Arab nationalists have an absolutely horrific history. They're not the "good guys". You say they got Palestine from the British empire then went on a campaign of genocide yet that's exactly what Arab nationalists did to Kurdistan.

The answer to Zionism isn't Arab nationalism, it's anti-nationalism.

kurds were a constantly antagonist tribe that provoked more actions against them than even those ethnic groups islam considers satan worshippers. and kurds are sunni muslims mind you.

the persecution of jews was a backfire of zionism.

meanwhile arab nationalism led to independance from colonial powers and formation of stable states with developing infrastructure where beduin tribesmen killed eachother over family feuds a few hundred years earlier.
which was ofcourse done without the US pumping billions into these countries and international schemes and elites on your side as was the case with israel.

checked

This is literally exactly what Zionists say
It is disgusting and pure victim blaming.

Yes, Arab states are stable. Amazing. Pic related.

Support for Israel from an anti-fascist and leftist perspective is analguous to support for the French Revolution over the ancien regime. Israel, like revolutionary France, is a bourgeois revolutionary state. But it is a child of modernity nonetheless, in marked contrast to the varying degrees of barbarism present through Middle East. Notably Islamism, but also Arabic fasicsm/Baathism.

excep they lie.
they started it and they played the victim card from the beginning. theyre the opressors and they count on arab retaliation to play the victim card again.

they are, the amount of progress acheived by arab nationalism in late 20th century is only matched in their history in the time of the islamic golden age and british/french colonisation.

posting a result of CIA, wahabbist, zionist and islamist conspiracy against arab states isnt a good argument against arab nationalism.

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Ba'athism is literally Zionism for Arabs. It has the same modernist, nationalist, bourgeois ambitions - it's just that Ba'athist states tend to sporadically get bombed into rubble for geopolitical reasons.

Israel is a liberal Western republic. Baathism is Arabic fascism. And furthermore, anti-Semitism is a part of a larger anti-modern ideology. But continue with your anti-imp screeching because you don't understand Marx's stages of history.

lmao what

pure ideology

jidf get gulag

Except so do Arab nationalist apologists. It is never the victim's fault, no matter what anyone of the same ethnic group does it is never acceptable to massacre and brutalize civilians. It can never be "their fault" as a people as a whole are not accountable for the actions of any particular members of it. This is literally the logic Israeli propagandists churn out every time they carpet bomb Gaza, " Oh well Hamas launched a rocket from here a while back so we're just defending ourselves". It is mad.

Hold up, "progress" is not synonyms for "stability". In many ways Arab nationalist states did improve things, but this does not mean they're stable. The Afghani socialist government was probably the most progressive government Afghanistan has ever seen and will see for a great while - yet it was racked by instability and ended very violently. The progress of it does not negate the instability of it.

So too is true for Arab nationalist states, the fact that most of them are dead should speak for this. But you somewhat address this in your next point.

Yes, it was all big bad AmeriKKa's fault and Assad dindu nuffin. Not to mention that's not my argument against Arab nationalism, that's my argument against Arab states being stable. My argument against Arab nationalism is that it's pretty much violent Arab supremacy. Not unlike Zionism.

Try reading some time:
Evola endorsed Otto Weininger's views on the Jews. Though Evola viewed Jews as corrosive and anti-traditional, he described Adolf Hitler's more fanatical anti-Semitism as a paranoid idée fixe that damaged the reputation of the Third Reich.[8] Evola's conception did not emphasize the Nazi racial conception of Jews as "representatives of a biological race"—in Evola's view the Jews were "the carriers of a world view…a spirit [that] corresponded to the 'worst' and 'most decadent' features of modernity: democracy, egalitarianism and materialism."[6]

Evola argued that The Protocols of the Elders of Zion—whether or not a forgery—accurately reflect the conditions of modernity.[19][8] He believed that the Protocols "contain the plan for an occult war, whose objective is the utter destruction, in the non-Jewish peoples, of all tradition, class, aristocracy, and hierarchy, and of all moral, religious, and spiritual values."[44] He wrote the foreword to the second Italian edition of the Protocols, which was published by the Fascist Giovanni Preziosi in 1938.[44][45]

Following the murder of his friend Corneliu Zelea Codreanu, the leader of the Fascist Romanian Iron Guard, Evola expressed anticipation of a "talmudic, Israelite tyranny."[8] However, Evola believed that Jews had this "power" only because of European "decadence" in modernity.[5] He also believed that one could be "Aryan", but have a "Jewish" soul, just as one could be "Jewish", but have an "Aryan" soul.[46] In Evola's view Otto Weininger and Carlo Michelstaedter were Jews of "sufficiently heroic, ascetic, and sacral" character to fit the latter category.[47]
en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Evola

Israel is part of why the arab states are so fucked. Go fuck yourself.

sure thing JIDF. just like those kids in the hospital had pocket nukes right?

or i could argue its a modern result of the relentless jewish zeal and tribalism in face of a community they refused to emancipate in.

i havent mentioned anti-imperialism even once tho.

where exactly does westerners invading a foregein country and colonising it, committting attrocities and genocide fit in those stages toward communism?

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you do know that jews were getting slack for longer than since 20th century right?

even marx said they should just stop jewing around and emancipate in the society like everyone else

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I'm not that user.

I just fail to see why an ethnic-chauvinist, anti-democratic, class-collaborationist ideology with a strong history of intense ethnic violence wouldn't be fascist. It literally reads like Third-Positionism for brown people.

Jews are the fucking worst

wonder why in 1948 westerners did just that to the locals.

baathist syria: stable
saddams iraq: stable
fundamentalist gaddafis libya: stable
etc

thats both because they were forced upon the conservative rular population and because the CIA spent billions every year to bring them down and fight the soviets

im sure the entire western world trying to topple them with wars and sanctions has nothing to do with it

slippery slope. there was more players involved, but ultimately it was indeed the "new american century" rethoric that led to the arab spring

pic related

yes, i dont like israel too.

FYI the right-left spectrum is for retards and sheep

i guess you almost typed "sandniggers" didnt you?

2deep4me

Pure whataboutery
Syria is in the midst of a horrific civil war.
Strangely it isn't around anymore.
Literally overthrown and murdered in the streets by Arab rebels. With western help mind.
It absolutely does. But being such a diplomatic pariah that the entire developed world is trying to destroy you is not what I would call stability. The west was not trying to destroy them because evil white man can't let the Arab world succeed. The west was doing it because the geopolitical ambitions and alignments of Arab nationalists is directly in conflict with those of the US & co. Thus the west's love/hate relationship with Egypt.

Only this is not the case. Foreign meddling can't conjure uprisings out of no where, they can simply mobilize and agitate domestic unrest against the government. In any case it is necessary for that government to be failing in some area that meddlers can capitalize upon.

Case in point: Syria. The US has been more than happy to fuel the war. But Assad had certainly done his part in giving much of the population a reason to side with the US on this.

It wasn't.

Cool, me neither.
Ba'athists literally admitting to being third-positionists.
No, but if you're resorting to "you're just racist" the argument must be nearing an end. This is on the level of when Zionists pull the anti-semitism card.

i bet youre the kind of NEET that based his political standpoint on the results of a internet political compass quiz

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Yeah I can think of a few guys who felt the same.

Or an actual reading of history, you uneducated faggot

PFLP isn't Islamist

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it wasnt until "someone" decided to change that
-II-
-II-

in case youre new to history and politics the west turned on the former members of the nonaligned movement because the eastern bloc was gone and they were the only collective of powers left not under the western hegemoney.

so youre saying that a successful country is the one that bends the knee to any system or power that might pose a danger to it?

every goverment is failing in some aspect.
yet the arab sprin and other "revolutions" like euromaidan and Odpor were a direct result of western attempt to down unsubordinate goverments.
you dont see this happening in american vassal countries.

are you joking or just reading CNN and the guardian?

Reminder the PLO was originally dominated by Marxists

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where were on the spectrum the following
you tell me
pick one

Yes, I'm not sure what you don't understand. "They started it" is fucking toddler level discourse.
If you're not going to take any criticism of Arab states seriously and just deflect everything to "The Jews/America started it" I'm not going to continue to replying to you.

But that's not a real analysis of geopolitics. That's just identifying that Arab nationalists and the west had conflicting ambitions and alignments as I had already said. You literally just cut my point in half and addressed part of it as if it was a complete argument.

No. I'm saying if a country can't defend itself from great world powers it is going to need to be able to play the diplomatic game if it hopes to be a success.

North Korea is great at this. They've managed to position themselves in such a way where the US can't influence them but also can't attack them either. They've also managed to keep a lid on any internal unrest to the point where the US can't stir up trouble either.
Arab Nationalists were terrible at this. Eventually they would up either losing any friends that would have been able to help them and/or weren't able to control local unrest. I'd call that a failure.

True, hence the qualifier "that meddlers can capitalize upon".
And it does happen with American aligned states. Since 1991 Iran has been the master of this, the fact that America invaded Iraq to set it up as a puppet and instead started aligning with Iran should speak of this.

Yes, the fact that the government controls the main population centres and Assad liberalized society somewhat means that no one could ever have any reason to oppose him. Genius.

He didn't. But nonetheless contemporary Chile is not what I would describe as stable.

Oh shit, you actually are third-positionist.

Welp, fuck this thread.

pleb scum

zionists started the arab-israeli conflict, that goes without saying. unless thats the "thing someone started" were talking about i dont see what youre trying to argue here.

the only thing you can criticise them about is having a more direct and obvious form of a central power structure and not being able to defend themselves against enemy superpowers. in most other aspects theyre the same as the rest of the world.

you think so? lets see your point;
oh well, you tried.

my statement that the west shifted from the east toward the nonaligned after the fall of the east is completely correct.
arab nationalism is antagonist toward the west because it was the west that repressed arab nations in the past and later supported their enemies.
the whole endgame here is the west trying to impose global hegemoney and local nations trying to evade it.
i dont know how more simply can i put it for you

ever heard of the possibility that your diplomats wont do shit if you have an enemy that needs to invade you for more than just political resons?

thats because they got lucky and happened to come under a regeime that works in the interest of a neighbouring power.
and then you criticise arab states for not being open and liberal?

first of all, thats happening because of the shia militias that have power in the PMU like the former mahdi army.
second of all you just contradicted your own point.
you admitted that power shifts in form of revolutions usually only happen with immense foregein backing.

my point was that assads regeime was relatively better compared to many other regional regeimes that just so didnt happen to have revolutions and wars because they were US allies

…how did the jew/zionists drag WW1? are you sure you're not looking for >>>Holla Forums

I still support Israel tbh
Despite its issues its still the most free and open democratic society in the mid east
All these people who shill for the Palestinians who are led b terror groups need to think about the consequences of their actions

just because they blatantly blame every jew for what a certain collective of jews did doesent make the condemning of the acts of that collective wrong

lebanon is more opne and democratic. syria was too.
meanwhile israel tried to destroy both of those and many more while maintaining their apartheid policies and thier lobbying run goverment. theres more chanches of a kurd running iraq than a palestinian running israel.
oh wait, iraq was run by a half-kurd, general quassim.
meanwhile the zionists treat palestinian political ambitions as terrorism and a completely different state.

How much controlled op can they get?

Yeah, dude. Israel is so fascist. That's why they have a republic and universal suffrage.

But I guess words don't mean anything anymore

As the Palestinians who actually live in Israel if they have universal suffrage you fuck

Read a book you gigantic faggot. Arab and Palestinian Israeli citizens not only have universal suffrage within Israel, but also have representation in the Knesset. It may come as a surprise to you, but Israel and Palestine are different states. There are Arabs in numerous parties, including Likud.

Actions matter more than words and labels for oneself.
Israel's "universal suffrage" is tyranny of a group of sick people.

Do fuck off

No shit there's conflict between Israel and Palestine. But to reiterate my point, Israel and Palestine are different states. Your posts have nothing to do with the democratic structure of Israel itsel

itself even

Wow man "democracy". I guess that means isreal is actually a nice country after all. No one should compare them to nazis

the funny thing is that despite zionists on this board being BTFOd (yet again) theyll be back to autistically screech in the next thread about anything from iran to religion or whatever.

Mods = fags. The arguments were being made from leftist positions based on materialist reasoning. You faggots aren't allowing any discussion on this subject

thats like saying anti-fascism is bad on this board.

you zionists have been BTFOd in every argument on here, but you always pretend you cant read ant start throwing around fallacies.

maybe you should just go to Holla Forums with your proud zionism.

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