Why are anarcho-children constantly hypocritical?
Why are anarcho-children constantly hypocritical?
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Why do you have to misrepresent the positions of your rival? Is it because you have no real arguments against it or because you are mentally challenged?
Did you really have to make another thread?
IWA is not supporting Catalan independence, Tankies and Trots from Socialist Alternative or others - are supportive.
So you're stupid OP.
Daily Reminder: We must stand with the Spanish government in their struggle against Catalan imperialism.
Gmil cucks, everyone.
This. Not every anarchist goes head over heels for catalonian independence.
Anything that harms Europe and the EU is good.
who the fuck would ever buy any of these
I know right
i'm not even sure gmil has fans
Leftcommieism is becoming cool these days
When you come across a Leftcom show him this:
And he might throw a shitfit
ITS A REAL MOVEMENT GUYS
Let's not forget this one too:
Your annoying itch to constantly be socially involved in contemporary geopolitics and turn a Hearts of Iron game into some kind of moral imperative is more detrimental to leftism than anything else. Maybe you should spend more time constructing the ideology of tomorrow rather than trying to heart throb the ideology of today.
I don't support Catalonian independence, but the reason anarchists sometimes align themselves with governments is because they pragmatically seek to increase the well being and freedom of the working class. Which is why (for example) you see them occasionally supporting social democratic policy, instead of denouncing it as ideologically impure.
The Spanish government is fucking disgusting and the EU isn't going to do jack shit about any of their violent excesses, except to consistently cover it up and pretend it's all legal/not happening. You should support whistleblowers exposing police violence, at the very least.
Craig Murray used to stubbornly insist that the EU was a good thing. He takes it all back. That's how horrified he is by the media cover-ups and the EU's undivided support for Spain's actions.
It directly helps the abolition of the state if you make that state much smaller in geographic reach. This hurts not only direct power of the Catalan future state but the Spanish state around it. Once power is devolved it is easier to devolve it further, on top of this, often in these places (such as catalonia or Scotland, Kurdistan) the population in the area wanting to break off is significantly more commie than the block that wants to keep it. Its not necessarily a good thing, you could and probably would still get a small neoliberal social democracy, but it opens up the possibility of more sweeping change and contains the seed of direct rule. Also generally I think the proletariat flexing their muscles and feeling their strength is a good thing
Its the same as when socialists support social democracy even though it delays revolution.
wtf is this silly idealism?
I hate to agree with gmil, but yeah
I don't understand all this catalan independence enthusiasm
okay, you got your independence, now what?
more borders? more paper pushing? fuck this shit
also anarchists are delusional as always, talking about how farmers will fight off the army
I've thought about this recently. Toppling smaller local states must be much easier than taking on the (seemingly undefeatable) leviathan known as the EU. Maybe anarchists should support the fragmentation of capital that's going on
thanks for fixing my paint-fu
How are these mutually exclusive.
Revolution is idealism but benevolent welfare capitalism isn't.
Balkanization does not promote internationalism.
Used to believe in the EU and UK cos internationalism, but international revolution aint gonna happen like that and the EU as a structure doesn't actually have enough power to be a cohesive unit to revolutionise as one, so best to break off it and try your luck with the mini state
Thinking that reforms can "delay revolution" is 100% idealism.
What you forget is that a conflict like that isn't a instant slaughter zone, its not nicaragua, this are whiteish people in the EU's back yard, they wouldn't have to resist that hard, as soon shots were fired there would be a pan european uproar and some deal would be made. Its not going to get to full on IRA style war its not that kind of a conflict
They don't support them, they joined their protests against police brutality but anarchist organizations are not involved in the separatist movement.
gmil is so fucking bad lol
Socdems usually allow the capitalists to enact reactionary reforms which prevent radical organizing. It has nothing to do with welfare.
well, we'll see about that
what you forget is that this whole situation is creating a precedent
look at Ukraine and that was much more heated and much bigger stakes, I doubt real real trouble breaks out in Catalonia
so does anyone else
Revolutions only happen when people have nothing to lose but their chains
Pictured: people with cushy jobs and welfare checks that don't want to do the revolution because ideas=reality.
It's my understanding that anarchists joined protests against the cops and were otherwise uninvolved, if anyone is supporting independce it's trots and mls to weaken spain and the eu. But that doesn't make a decent gmil ur utopian comic.
I mean precedent in the context of EU member state
Are you stupid?
"Why, do anarchists support independence movements?! It makes way more sense if they support a stronger more centralized state."
Yeah fuck them. Let's support a monarchy, which is run by the successor of the Spanish fascist party
So anarchists do support national liberation as long as the country in question is not too big? How arbitrary.
CUP did nothing wrong
More like "CUP did nothing whatsoever apart from supporting the neoliberal nationalists in the parliament"
if it means escaping from the neoliberal hellscape known as the EU then it's pretty much worth it tbh
National Syndicalism is not fascism you tard. It's actually far closer to socialism than anarcho-autism is.
sounds like gmil
so instead of one state, we now have two states
and we also have another border as well
hmm… so that is what anarchism all about…
Anarchism certainly is not about sitting in your Armchair doing nothing while shit is going down. I do not know any anarchist especially in Catalonia that sees the creation of an independent Catalan republic good thing. But there is no point in not intervening in this crisis. That's how anarchist generally apply their politics.
there is nothing i hate more htan XKCD
it is the most pretentious nerdy liberal bullshit i've ever seen
literally XD /reddit/ tier
To be fair, Catalonian independence would cause massive amounts of damage to the state, both Spanish and EU. Which could create conditions more favourable to communist revolution. And I say this as someone with leftcom sympathies. What ever happened to the real movement of things?
Yeah, it really irritates me when communists support massive bourgeois superstates in the name of internationalism.
tone it down a little though
The movement part is antithetical to armchairs.
The EU is concerned about this kicking off independence movements in other regions of the EU, which is why they are so adamantly opposed to it.
Like who? fucking Bavaria? split the Czech Republic into Bohemia and Moravia? Give Silesia back to Germany?
Synthesis: Office chairs
GMIL might be OP pushing his chicken scratch
We could recreate Prussia, a socialist Prussia.
it's almost as if they were enduring habbedings
two weaker states,
States are not the same thing as governments. You'd think an anarchist would understand this. The state is still strong even if you split it into two parts.
I see it posted here sometimes, but I have never heard of/seen it anywhere else.
Ben Garrison was here in one of the threads people were laughing at him in so it's not at all unlikely.
Okay but only if they have arms too. All attempts to disarm the chairs must be resisted, by force if necessary.
It's unironic third positionism at the very best
If Catalonia were just granted independence no one would care
You are delusional I live here, in one of the shittest parts, even I know it's not "done for" its one of the most stable and promising places on earth
Spanish nationalism is cancer, Catalan nationalism is cancer. And this is obviously not a leftist movement despite the CUP possibly being /ourguys/. But I think the independence might be more beneficial to the left than the status quo, in the long run.
Why are the Catalan separatists such fuckups? They were lurching from unilateral independence to dialogue and back again, which quite frankly looks weak as shit, and they don't seem to have taken any practical steps to protect their area against the central government. Why haven't the mobilized the local police to seize buildings and block military bases for example? Didn't the violence during the referendum teach them anything?
They are worse than wrong, they are incompetent.
i guarantee it's not
wait really? how do you know?
Anarchists defending the creation of more borders are mentally ill, not even reddit anarchists act like that, maybe you should read some fucking Peter Kropotkin book and stop trying to be a contrarian leftist you liberal children
Capitalism is literally destroying the world and setting the groundwork for the apocalypse, ideology of tomorrow can suck my dick if it can't be implemented, humanity needs to be saved right fucking now.
There's benefits to borders. Smaller areas and populations are easier to organize. Elections and the apparatus's of state are easier to influence. Big banks, trade courts and the like can be kept out or legislated against more easily. It's about maximizing your leverage.