Tankies cant handle this

workers strike in a 'proletarian' state, get shrapnelled by the glorious police and army: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novocherkassk_massacre
workers strike in horrible imperialist ebil usa, get a raise: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1952_steel_strike#Ruling_and_steel_mill_seizure

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The USA forced my country to join NATO. Either we would join and there would be a regime change(right wing fascist in power during those days).


*When you strike under socialism you are a wrecker, plain and simple.*

The surplus is already allocated for maximum utility already in a carefully planned way, when you demand more money than your fellow workers you are a sabateur. In the USSR workers of an entire industry actually negotiate their pay according to plan themselves:
In capitalist countries, sometimes wages can be increased because the capitalist extracts surplus value. This isn't possible in socialism unless you print money or whatever, which sounds like a horrible idea to me.

M8s no one is saying that the U.S.A isn't Imperialist and no one is saying it isn't a union of capitalist states. OP is asking how tf tankies can say the USSR was a worker's paradise when a brutal imperialist capitalist hegemon saw raises in wages after strikes while striking soviet workers got bombed by the police and army. The obvious answer is that "Actually Existing Socialism" is bullshit

An idealist leninist Yankee vanguard party leader and elitist universitarian was teaching a class on Leon Trotsky, known bolshevik.
”Before the class begins, you must get on your knees and worship Trotsky as the greatest liberator of the working class of the 20th century, even more influential than Marx himself, or any syndicalist philosopher!”
At this moment, a brave, unionist Midwestern steel worker and AFL-CIO member, who understood the necessity of action over theory, boldy stood up and re-ajusted at his hardhat.
”If that is indeed so, then why did the Bolsheviks work so hard to disband all unions, the expression of proletarian will by exellence ? ”
The arrogant professor smirked quite amusedly and smugly replied “It was necessary to unite the working class under one party to guarantee the survival and spread of the worker’s revolution, besides only trade-union-consciousness-level Lumpenproles care about unions, known tool of bourgeois oppression . ”
”Wrong. If trade unions are anti-proletarian, then why does the working class live far better in countries with high unionization than countries with low or no unionization, including the Soviet Union ? ”
The professor was visibly shaken, and dropped his chalk and copy of The State and Revolution . He stormed out of the room crying those authoritarian marxist crocodile tears.
There is no doubt that at this point our professor, Noam Chomsky, wished he had pulled himself up by his bootstraps and become more than a mediocre ideologue and blindly theoretical philosopher.
The students applauded and all decided to join the IWW that very day and accepted syndicalism as the only true way to a truly proletarian society.
An eagle named “CNT” flew into the room and perched atop a burning Soviet flag and shed a single tear on the dropped chalk. Sections of Sorel’s Reflections on Violence were read several times, and the Spirit of Prudhon himself showed up and declared a worldwide general strike.
The professor lost his tenure and was fired the next day and was forced to become a unionized manual labourer to make ends meet.
The brave workerite’s name? Joe Hill.

Absolutely horrendous post, as expected from a tankie
Leftcoms have it right in saying that "It's not the boss, it's the firm" memes.
Of course IRL compromises have to be made, but remember one thing : in socialism the workers are always right.

This but unironically

Not an argument, just more whining
Still waiting for an actual argument. But you seem to get your political education only through memes
Already backpedaling, but first make sure you throw out some insults
Stop turning class into an identity.

How is this making class into an identity. Class remains a category no matter how you look at it which allows you to make categorical statements about it, just as you can with identity. Why don't you try evaluating the claim on its own merits as opposed to making some dumbass accusation about idpol.

Same God, different avatar. Also in some Capitalist countries, and in Social-Democracy, the Capitalists have at least the decency of trying to keep the working men happy and healthy - because an happy and healthy man is more productive.
What good is socialism, if not for the people ?

Never change with the low effort anti-ML shitposting and wikipedia surfing


That's not the point man. The point is that you produce for profit in capitalism, even when you are under in a social democracy, capital still crushes you and may run opposed to people's needs no matter the surplus value is redistributed. In socialism you only have surplus, and it's scientifically managed to benefit society.
This implies that there was somehow an option for the USSR to make life far greater than it was. I don't think there was. USSR lifted living standards in an astronomical speed. How is that not for the people? Sometimes you have to take a hit for the team, that's life.

Classic interest can be different from the interest of individuals of that class

i'm still not sure whatever tankies think socialism is since they have no qualms about ruining lives as long as there's some twat guaranteeing that this will bring gommunism in X years. i mean the number of people gobbling up the non linear time bullshit is alarming.

Given posts itt, MLs were also unaware.

Capitalists also think that their system of distribution is fair, and that striking is sabotage.


Why do tankies believe the Soviet Union was socialism again?

They struck for better working conditions and pay, just like organized labor always does, not to defend the good name of Stalin against the ebul revisionists. Next time actually read the links you post.

stalin society is a page run by psychopaths

you would never tell just by the name of the site amirite

suck my dick

Nah, dude. Socialism is obviously when workers have no say in how the economy is run.


You're both right, actually.

Are you dense? Or intentionally lying to save face? It may have been driven initially by economic need as most workers struggles often are but that doesn’t mean there was no political content to it.

t. le coopman

In capitalism with cooperatives, the workers still don't get a say in how the economy is run. Only a say in how their individual company is run.


porks definetely killed the workers, yes.


The op post shows labour action in the 50s and 60s

Nice class compromise you got there, almost as if we are talking about social-democracy.

Ok fine you faggot. Read this. Much more practical accout then Wikipedia or that facebook post.


Kill yourself, Stalin did what had to be done to modernize and defend the world's only socialist state from the imperialists.

tankies, everybody

This is the thing with tankies. Stalin want Hitler but red sure but he wasnt fucking Jesus Christ either.

Political disagreement should only be done in private setting within a party in line with democratic centralism. Arguing publicly just gives ammunition to reactionaries because we look divided.

I personally don't mind well thought out criticism of Stalin, but anyone who does it publicly in a place like 8ch instantly loses all respect from me, they're basically doing the work of porky for him.

Criticizing Capitalism is Capitalism

We are divided you retard.
I'm sure the loss of an internet ML's respect is a mortal wound to anarchists and leftcoms.

Not the point, you are aiding bourgeoisie propaganda by criticizing Stalin. He is a powerful socialist symbol and you are trying to tear him down.
anarchists and leftcoms aren't socialists or even progressive so I don't care what they think.

Daily reminder that Stalin was killed by the jews

It wasn't a proletarian state. It was khruschevite revisionist state