Rant time, listen well. Leftypol learned me a lot, so I took the skills and books and articles amassed here and went out into the world of the IRL left and…. OMFG it SUCKS.
EVERYBODY and I mean EVERYBODY who actually has an opinion is a total fucking autist who is basically impossible to work with. This is DEEPLY COMPOUNDED by PETTY AS FUCK personal disputes.
It really is beyond a joke and it is a HUGE obstacle to organising. NOBODY WILL WORK WITH ANYBODY ELSE. The 10 trot sects all hate each other, the anarchists will work with none of the trots and vice versa, the leninists are the same, considering they each have about 50 members maximum it basically means nothing actually revolutionary will ever get done, ever. They do this because of A) Personal issues with each other over petty ass shit or B) Pretending this is the first international and it actually matters if you are an anarchist or a leninist and just a generic communist trying to piece together even the tiniest fraction of a workers movement and not pretending you are making world changes decisions in that very moment and that others are literally counter revolutionary because they austistically ascribe to a different bit of theory than you autistically ascribe to NONE of these CUNTS are revolutionary the fucking ARROGANCE of it makes me want BLOW MY OWN FUCKING BRAINS OUT.
ITS LIKE A FUCKING CRECHE FOR HYPER EDUCATED PEOPLE.
I am happy that you tried at least, user. I am sorry for your pain. You now have only two options: you either attempt to pull some kind of anti-fascism initiative with some of the lefties to avert the rise of fascism, or just pick something non-political to be preoccupied and wait in the shadows until revolution comes along, then do what must be done. I know it sounds LARPy, but what other choice is there really?
read max stirner
No man I'm sticking it out. I pretty much decided that I can't sit by while all of this goes on, I'm trying to cherry pick the non autists and make something good but dear lord.
I think the main problem is most people don't even consider that they could actually do anything really revolutionary, they mostly just want to meet people and go to marches for catharsis or socialising or whatever, then the serious people are obviously the most autistic of them all and most are jaded by the constant bullshit of all the other serious people so most of them are resigned to just being a cantankerous asshole and shitting on everything. Its bleak
Socdem is the future. I wish I was kidding
Sounds like the clash of egos and bunch of normies trying to get into "mysterious secret club" for funs because they don't like Trump or whatever. If you do decide to stick out, maybe try to earn some respect yourself, earn some cred or authority by doing volunteer work, donating, actively attending their events and even if you're fed up, find your own little niche and be the man in the corner until people naturally start to trust you, and that's when you start putting it out there that there could be co-operation with some of the other groups out there.
I could be wrong but whatever works for you fam.
we should meme the gay science and the spoke zarathustra
it so ironic to meme Nietzsche
We should meme quotes by stirner, but attribute them to Nietzsche. It works on two levels, because there's been an ongoing debate about how much Nietzsche plagiarized him.
thing is so little actually goes on that there is no way for people with merit to actually distinguish themself, so it just ends up being about who can talk the biggest and sound the most radical but nothing practical ever gets done
It's at least a leftward shift and if the American overtone window ends up including it further left ideologies will have an easier time gaining acceptance in the future.
Start a community garden or a breakfast program or something? If there's no practical purpose to an organization its not surprising that it devolves into an intellectual circlejerk.
Yup. In fact the only group that isn't this is actually ANTIFA, which kind of shows you the state of things, but they do in fact serve a practical purpose. Most other groups, the ones that engage in electoral politics, get a couple local council seats maybe MAYBE and change not much once there, at least not in a revolutionary sense, the "revolutionary" groups i.e. non electoral groups basically just jack it and do small acts of solidarity and attend demos. There are a few good things around like tenants unions and stuff but they are again reformist in nature, even though they do good work for people. I have suggested organising these sorts of things to people, breakfast, food drives etc and it just never gets done, you are met with mostly instant defeatism or a lack of resources, time etc,
Nietzsche never plagiarized Stirner. They are two different philosopher. One is a democrat, the other an aristocrat
You miss the point ENTIRELY, as with all reactionary thought, you are looking only at symptoms and refuse point blank to look at causes. Imagine yourself as a doctor, all your patients would fucking die. The point is that the only way to stop people wanting to come here, or wanting to bomb us, is to stop the capitalist imperialism which causes them to to want to do this. Its not a question of guilt, but sheer practicality, there is a reason you don't pick fist fights with your friends every day and random strangers in the street, because its a fucking headache, and who needs it, it is not necessary and it is inefficient. Imperialism, for you and I, posting on the internet, is a huge fucking waste of resources, we don't see the gains, we just shoulder the crashed economy from all the money used to purchase weapons, we just live in the shady neighbourhoods with impoverished people who just fled a warzone, we just experience higher crime rates (so you say).
None of this shit is good or practical or sustainable
If these are "revolutionary" groups maybe you could get them to do some stuff to prepare for the "revolution". Like recruiting, establishing communications with other leftist organizations, learning how to protect themselves from surveillance. Do these folks have any useful skills? What do they even want to do in the "revolution"?
Embrace stasserism and hijack an alt-right group
well I've basically come to the conclusion that they simply don't, bar one or two figures, people go into these groups with the mentality that its something that can be done half time, I think.
I suggest this and people come back with shit like "but we aren't mormons". Again, only antifa have actually even entertained this concept but again, nothing got done in the end. this is crucial and you would think with the recruiting basic stuff like elemental level but the autism and personal disputes makes it very difficult to do this. this has been done, its one of the things about the larp factor, this kind of stuff gets done, but im sure a) anybody with a fairly decent tech brain could get in no problemo cos its all mass use stuff that is used anyway like Tor or Riot.im or various encrypted apps or whatever b) we don't do anything really that the cops would care about (again, apart from antifa, but even then, the cops dont really give that much of a shit about them i wouldnt imagine, its pretty small where im from)
I mean people do have jobs and lives and stuff, anything that isn't fun or can't be done with most people only putting in the minimal effort won't happen. If they're mostly there to larp as badass revolutionaries maybe there's some way to harness the larp for something useful. Give everyone fake military ranks and maybe break everyone into cells based on what people are interested in doing so they can work independently without every little thing turning into an open debate. Have larp cybersecurity team, larp streetfight team, larp supply lines team, larp recruiting team, larp medic team.
stasserism isn't class collaboration they are actual leftists
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That's because a significant chunk of the left believes in retarded shit: idpol, capitalism, white guilt, mass immigration, accepting religion, killing free speech, etc.. When I started talking to socialists/commies/anarkids, I saw a lot of educated people. Problem is, they all had the shitty social science degrees, like sociology, gender studies, etc.. Where the fuck are all the historians? The philosophers? The economists? We have a bunch of retarded idealists with no grasp of the facts.
I couldn't find anyone worth a damn until I got into web development. Guys, if you're looking for a group of lefties who aren't retarded: go for the computer science crowd, particularly those who believe in open-source. They're pro-redistribution, pro-meritocracy, pro-personal liberty. Just understand that the alt-right has already made some progress there due to retarded idpol lefties at Google, Yahoo, and other big names shitting up everything. It's going to take some work to get converts there.
Programmers union when?
yknow thats actually not such a bad idea
never because co-ops in that field is starting to become a thing
If there's one thing I've learned from anime it's that you can't fight the chuuni, you have to embrace it or the bonds of friendship in your after-school club will never deepen. Seriously though good luck, getting a bunch of over educated weirdos who have more fun arguing about obscure leftist theories to do anything is not an easy feat.
What the hell is a programmers coop?
do you know what a coop ?
Yes, I've never heard of a co-op in the tech field though. Like some sort of cooperatively owned software development firm? Can you give me an example of one because I work in that area and I've never heard of that being a thing.
I've sometimes wondered if people need to start dying so the others can realize that politics is a life-or-death question at all times and not some place to shove your shitty autistic theory in and demand everyone work with you or you leave.
I was part of one ,but we are in the process of liquidation.
Do these actually have cooperative ownership? Also seems like these places are all headquartered in Montreal. I feel like this might just be a Quebec thing, I haven't heard of anything similar in the states. That's cool if that model is working though.
I had similar realizations when I started Uni. I had been tentatively left wing throughout high school but always tried to remain aware of how ignorant I was of the world. I'm a lot more educated and worldly now and I'm still left-wing but I've also come to realize that radical politics in America seem to attract the absolutely stupidest and most worthless people. I have leftwing friends who I hold in the highest esteem but they are very few compared to the enormous pool of lazy and ignorant fucks I've had to deal with in my years as an """activist""". Most orgs, especially the most apparently radical, are completely useless HOWEVER I'll still shill for the IWW. If you're actually a wage laborer it's worth joining. Doubtful it will actually improve your job but if nothing else ut will give you leftwing drinking buddies who aren't useless pieces of shit scamming disability. Beyond that because it's explicitly a union you can always fight attempts to bring the conversation to incredibly dumb and sectarian places by demanding you use the meeting time to actually discuss labor organization. Look and see if you're city has an IWW chapter.
These belong to the worker. The workers are the owners.
We also have federation of coop that help coop to develop. It awesome
your bans only make me stronger(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST)
Why not just get loads of money and you and your little group could fly to join the zapatistas or some shit. Philippines new people's army? Live in Cuba?
There is so much I've seen that I would not begin to talk about on this board because it's just embarrassing.
Dude. I haven't even been out into the activist sphere but i trust your experience on this.
fuck activism tbh. i might be in it if there was people really just able to chill out but it seems like it always devolves into a cult.
reddit honestly doesn't help either. i'm convinced that the 'reddit left' has a lot of clout among bullshit like DSA. it just seems to be logical that most leftbook groups would also know about reddit and naturally gravitate to that stuff and become brainwashed by it.
i'm perplexed by the level with which people bitch solely about white people still on the left. they really do not care about class at all, and frankly, i often avoid political discussion in all avenues because of this.
i'm a communist for sure, and really don't care for the whole anarchist vs. socialist battles, they're 2 different ways to skin the same cat. both can work IMO as long as we're appropriately planning and on the same page.
what i've noticed is if you call yourself a communist they immediately think you're a Bolshevik.
If not that, people assume you are just a reallly, really radical liberal.
In general, people are so stupid that "communist" has lost any real legitimate meaning to the average prole.
wow reddit spacing
TIL i'm a faggot
Oh cool, demotivational post of the day, couldn't get by without this
If all else fails labour unions are good places to cut yer teeth and directly fuck with porky
Why in the fuck do the Quebecois always ALWAYS outpace Anglo Canadians in left radicalism and actual praxis?
Fucking this. STEMfag / EE here fam.
I agree, most open source people that are more closer to the Stallman end of the spectrum are very easygoing folks. They also aren't spooked by shit like Friedman and Rothbard.
Fuckin' sign me up fam
this would be a hilarious deflection to in court, too.
"We were just LARP'ing, we weren't actually going to build communism here."
This is dangerous thinking but I know what you mean. People don't see Republicans as mass murderers, just incompetent policy makers. They really pretend it's just some kind of shitty game. Libs too.
wtf i love canada now. brb moving there.
french ppl in general i believe are inherently superior to anyone else on the NA continent. just my personal opinion. they are called 'pussies' by everyone in america but i think its pure projection. they at least get out in te streets and burn shit when things are fucked.
Pretty much what I encountered when I was at the stage where I still felt some kind of obligation to "organise" and do "activism" and all that. ~95% of "The Left" whether it's online or IRL is apolitical. It is subculture and fandom, not a party (or parties), not a "movement" and certainly not any kind of revolutionary vanguard. LARPers wearing ushankas or with a-for-anarchy tats and bandanas, school kids who've fallen in love with Lenin or Trotsky or Che or Mao, girls looking for attention and social power, guys looking for girls and a handful of oldies still bitter about the cold war.
I shit you not, I've seen more tangible real world gains for political causes come from fucking furry conventions than ANY of the various self-declared left-wing organisations I ever had any contact with. And with less personal drama and jilted lovers stirring shit up, which was astounding.
You are better off joining a labour union or even your local medieval society or sports club or something. You'll probably get more done and you'll get to have fun and meet some people that vaguely resemble socially function humans.
Unironically I have found a lot more serious organizing work going on in tent orgs like D.S.A. than any communist party. I assume the communist label just attracts LARPers for some reason.
OP here, he point of this post was not to discourage activism but to tell others out there who may be active and organising to get their shit together, and to encourage serious people to get out their armchairs and repair the mess
Activism sucks but its important for everyone to do. Being in a party teaches you debating skills, leadership, logistics and organisation and how to deal with dissenters/wreckers. These are all skills useful outside of revolutionary politics as well. Ordinarily you only learn these skills after a boss taps you for management, so the sorts of people that get taught leadership and promoted in society are are bourgie. A party is a way for workers to learn to run things themselves.
Get involved and stay engaged, even if shitlibs try to drive you out.
organisations are useless, if you have a plan tell people what to do, if they're not useless and deliver let them in on the real stuff
A lot of IRL lefties were runaways who were financially destitute when they first joined. They sold out and assumed the ideological mantle later on as a form of Stockholm syndrome.
This is what we keep telling you people. Yes SocDems have their problems but at least they know how to organize effectively, which is probably why they're the only left leaning faction which has ever assumed power in the First World.
Get SocDems in office and put pressure in them to veer left.
Yep. The Chapo boys have the right idea. We just need to do more work trying to get them to drop the most obnoxious aspects of ID pol.
100% agree, me and a lot of other socdems aren't exactly socdem by choice, the current media and political climate just forces any sane socialist to perform as a socdem in public since that's where the overton window ends
Honestly I think the only option is to start from scratch without any of the labels or baggage of socialism.