Can you be a socialist, but not a communist?

yes, that is called being a sucdem

Yes they're called "socdems" but when the moment comes where they have to choose between socialism and capitalism. They always chose to lick the ass of porky.

Or a mutualist?

yes, but only if you are an enlightened neoliberal trying to swindle the proles


Social democrats are not socialists.

Yes. Marxists don't get to claim a monopoly on the concept of socialism.

Well yes if you want proletarian dictatorship and collective ownership of the mop but dont want to abolish class, capital and the state.

Succdems want capitalism with only the most important institutions in collective ownership.

Not only can one be a non-communist socialist, one can not be a communist socialist.

Yes, depending on whether or not you define those words in Marxist terms.

Socialism is basically lower-stage communism, so it's somewhat difficult to imagine a society that is socialist but opposes communism, but I guess it's possible.


Yes, but communists will hate you for it

yes according to marxist-leninists and some right wingers i guess.

Of course. You can even be a right-wing socialist.

Communism is the process by which a worker's party seize the means of production and establish a dictatorship of the proletariat, which is to wither away, leaving a stateless, classless society. It's possible to want worker control of the means of production, but be opposed to a fully stateless society, or be opposed to a vanguard party, while still being socialist

But we also don't have a monopoly on the concept of communism, fucktard. That isn't the question.

I consider myself a socialist and not a communist in the sense that I think a stateless society is retarded. Am I part of "the real movement that seeks to abolish the present state of things" though? Absolutely.

Yes, if you're a revisionist

Fascism is non-communist socialism. Most communists get triggered by that fact.

From my understanding communism seeks to eliminate class. Socialism, differs in that it wants to ensure gaps as large as the ones between the the poor and porkys like the 1% don't exist. Is that right? Or do I need to lurk/read more?

no, socialism is just a means to the end which is communism. having perma socialism would be just as bad at perma capitalism

No, socialism also seeks to eliminate class. Capitalism cannot exist without class. That's why socialism seeks to abolish capitalism. The latter you're describing is social democracy, the idea that capitalism can be contained or tamed.

The real question should be :
Can you be a socialist, but not a marxist?

Marxist meaning what exactly?

I need to read so much more theory, but can anything exist without classes what so ever? That's basically my one reservation of full blown communism, I'm not sure a truly classless society is possible or even viable. I think I'm missing something here, but I'm not sure what it is.

Socialism seeks to eliminate class, communism seeks to eliminate the state as well, if you think the latter is dumb as fuck then you're a socialist but not a communist

socialism need not be marx's interpretation of it. There were socialists before marx, like proudhonists, saint simonists, fourierists and such. It's basically the equivalent of anti-capitalist utopianism as far as i can tell. Marx however distinguished himself from others by calling his doctrine "scientific socialism" because he wasn't dreaming up utopias but allegedly looking at the data and constructing a theoretical framework that'd be vindicated by history.


As far as I know, non-Marxist socialism is generally not communist at all and usually also doesn't support the "vanguard party" thing.

If you eliminate class then you no longer have a state. This board needs to fucking read.

Full equality was never attempted in Marxist-Leninist countries. There's always an aristocracy made up of the friends and family of bureaucratic officials.