Just dropping by to remind all liberals, succdems, and anarkiddies that Papa Stalin did literally nothing wrong and 99 percent of everything bad he supposedly did was a distortion or outright lie on behalf of the US intelligence community
If he couldn't ensure revisionism wouldn't take hold after his death, then he failed.
Really makes me think
As someone fro post Soviet Country, I can confirm. In fact, my great grandfather was a landlord who beat his wife and kids, and yet the bastard wasn't send to gulags. After the fall of the Union a lot of my relatives inherited a lot of land and became greedy bastards.
Truly the only thing Stalin did wrong was not being more authoritarian and seize more land
People have no idea how libertarian Soviet Union was compared to the Russian Empire or Russian Federation.
Parenti argues this is actually what led to its downfall. Stalin was actually to slow to further consolidate and and centralize power in the SU and this is what started the thaw after his death. A Marxist dictatorship needs to centralize power unabashedly into the hands of the most class conscious proles and create systems so that it can't be so easliy wrested from them.
must feel good being a white nerdy middle-class kid with a trust fund shitposting about a totalitarian nightmare where starving mothers were shot dead on spot for hoarding a fucking grain seed
sage because I assume in good faith that OP is just getting his laughs and not actually being this braindead
no, not being able to secure the revolution means you have failed as a revolutionary
So literally every anarchist attempt at revolution ever?
Nah he did lots of things wong, actued undemocarically on ocassions although is also true he struggled for democacy in the party , and he failded to do it). Also was unable to prevent the procapitalists from taking control of the USSR. Still he was a true communist , defeated fascism,moved the USSR from a poor country to the first sccesful socialist state, were workers had control over the MOP (not enough though) and although he made lot's of mistakes I think he did more good that harm.
Ur all banned lol
You now that is not true mate, they were a lot of huege mistakes made during Stalin's time, and he indeed did not choose correctly his allies lot's of time
The Bahamas is not exactly first world
Other than the aforementioned lack of willingness to centralize authority which I and other user have already conceded what were they
Failing to secure the revolution means you failed, yes.
Anarchists aren't trying to repeat kekalonia and saying the CNT-FAI did nothing wrong.
Nah, this is truly delusional, they were lots of problems with the way the economy was planned (Real ML's such as Cockshott). Also Stalin appointed procapitalists and in general opportunists to certain places, so altough he was fighting for a more democratic system, he was part of the problem (Read Ludo Martens if you want to now more about this)
This x100. Stalin was VERY liberal and democratic. Tankies would really do themselves a favor by reading Bordiga as he had the answers that Stalin did not.
He died too early
Except that is precisely what all anarchists everywhere are constantly trying to do.
Calling people names right off the bat is sure to lead to a great thread, good job OP. Anyway, I agree that a lot of what Stalin did (muh gorillions) is a lie…but he was still an authoritarian monster. Those two facts are not mutually exclusive.
Can't you just feel it in your soul that the way people idolize Stalin (you might be included in this as well, I have way of knowing) are just engaging in hero worship? Doesn't seeing hero worship turn your stomach? It's taking someone and turning them into something they never truly were in life;transforming them into a symbol, an icon to be worshiped. It's a fucking spook. Don't get me wrong, there is nothing wrong with pushing back against misinformation, I've argued against muh gorillions on many occasions, but let's not be so vehement in defending a person that we act like they were a saint.
He was a horrible communist but still the strong leader Soviet Union needed to defeat Nazi Germany.
imagine being this immature.
No, anarcho-syndicalyists are rare and even among them the CNT-FAI is criticised.
Imagine being this idiotic.
He says that Anarchists aren't hero worshipers like MLs, and your response is…yes, they are. High level of discourse here, good job tankie.
Imagine strawmanning this hard.
Imagine being this clueless.
Wow this is some next level shit right here. Stalin helped more than he hindered imo
imagine being this incapable of discussion.
Every single time I've ever asked an anarchist to show me a society which was immediately communist with no period of protracted materialist development of the society they say Kekalonia and instantly start cranking it to that passage from George "Let me Personally Report other Communists to Bourgeoise Security Agencies" Orwell's overrated ass literature on the subject so lmao no
So your response is "I know you are but what am I???"
It's not even an opinion it's a god damn fact of existence
A society that was communist has not yet existed you fuckwit. Communism isn't a state's an economic policy, it is the abolishment of capitalism. Furthermore I have never heard any anarchist claim it would be an instantaneous transformation, they are virtually universal in their belief of revolution being required to abolish capitalism. That they reject your 1000 years of capitalism under the red banner is a rejection of capitalism, not revolution.
Then there's literally no point in being an anarchist rather than a marxist other than a smug sense of superiority because you didn't make "the same mistakes" or some bullshit. If you're an anarchist and you don't think it's achievable over night you are not an anarchist
This is absolutely retarded, there is a difference in thinking an overnight revolution is impossible and thinking a long period of capitalism under proletarian dictatorship is required. By your logic Bakunin himself wouldn't have been an anarchist, nor would any anarchist who didn't claim revolution would be a one day affair.
I absolutely love when I get to this point in the argument with anarchists because then they just start reeing and saying that even though to maintain the gains of a revolution you must have some form of hiearchy somehow that doesn't contradict their asinine idealism that humans are naturally without hiearchy kek fuck you cunt go huff glue and listen to your friends terrible folk band or convince your friends that voting for Democrats is better than Republicans while also shit talking the USSR for totalitarianism or some other such shit you stupid fuck
Stalin purged and killed Bukharin because Bukharin knew that collectivization was a bad meme that wouldn't work, and tried to stop it.
Stalin will forever be a shit.
The part where you have to make shit up after displaying you have no idea of what you're talking about? That's where you started out. We don't, if the revolution succeed capitalism has been abolished. That you think a successful revolution is a mere seizure of one state speaks to your ignorance of what socialism is. I didn't realize anthropology was now idealism. This is Holla Forums on niggers tier, did an anarchist fuck some girl you had a crush on?
You stil haven't said how anarchists maintain their gains without forming a State, thus violating their own stupid idealism. Go read the pic I posted if you actually give a shit about challenging yourself.
Hint: you don't cuz you're an anarchist
Friendly reminder that if it wasn't for the black army obliterating a white army heading for Moscow the October Revolution would have failed.
the soviet union collapsed
You have no idea what anarchists even mean when they say "state". A militia, organization, or council isn't a state, else the IWW would be one. Read Malatesta. I did, it makes a claim based on two failed revolutions in spain the most recent of which occurred seven decades ago in addition to saying Stalin did some very bad things. Or is that part a distortion or outright lie on behalf of the US intelligence community you were unable to edit out.
I'm not going to waste my time reading your stupid punk rock poetry sorry
Well that was clear from the start.
Okay that's enough leftypol for one day
wew, got any more golden oldies for us?
This but unironically
You're a Tankie. Youre already too indoctrinated.
While I will acknowledge that the USSR wasn't much of an exception to a rule, (America during the era of Stalin, along with Germany were equally as authoritarian at crushing dissent) it's not a model that socialists should aspire to be like.
If you were well read, which, given your behaviour ITT you aren't you'd know that anarchist definitions and marxist definitions of a state are different.
No. Just surplus, no surplus value. For surplus value to exist there would have to be a labor market at least. Eh no. That was local mismanagement, lack of central planning. Confirmed historical brainlet. You don't win WWII just being lucky. They never did, they just passed a new criminal law code after the Tsarist one was suspended by Lenin Fair enough. But the fight against opportunism and revisionism didn't begin with Stalin. It begins with Lenin before the revolution even. doubt.jpg Wtf, he was sending them weapons. Are you retarded? Not his fault for them being defeated.
I actually wish that the bolshevik revolution failed if it did we'd have a real socialist revolution instead of a bourgeois one instead
We wouldve gotten real Marxism instead of the red fascism of the soviet union
I actually wish that all red fascists(or "marxist" - leninists)would fucking die they have not only never contributed anything to leftism all they have done is destroy real socialist revolutions like the ones in Spain
Remember that leninists are more dangerous to leftism than fascists(USER OVERPLAYED THEIR HAND)
You'd have to be able to read to regurgitate leftcom talking points convincingly enough to false flag.
cont. of Stalin's betrayal from the same source
FUCK OFF braindead tankies
Literally everything in that picture is wrong. Kill yourself for contributing to historical revisionism.
Congrats, I just got banned so I'm not gonna respond to all this. Have fun with your anti-communist circle jerk, where blatant right-wing lies like "Stalin exported grain during the famine" which even liberal historians reject are the consensus.
this is how braindead MLs actually are
The Purges were unnecessary as is not mobilizing in the face of Barbarossa. Shouldn't have messed in military matters.
Not the OP but anti-ML leftists should stop resorting to right wing propagandists to criticize the Soviet Union
Deliberate misinformation. Harvest of 1930 delivered surplus that was exported because the western powers only accepted grain in exchange for tools and means of industrialization. They no less tried to starve out the USSR. This is usually ignored.
Secondly, statistics show that they did stop to export grain, pic related. There are also telegrams which pretty much confirm that once Stalin heard about the extent of the famine, he imported grain and directed all food into the affected area. See the telegraph exchange between Kosior, the head of the Communist Party in Ukraine: The answer of Kosior was an attempt to downplay the famine. Stalin's reply: >Comrade Kosior! You must read the attached summeries. Judging by this information, it looks like the Soviet authority has ceased to exist in some areas of the Ukraine Soviet Socialist Republic. Can this be true? Is the situation in villages in Ukraine this bad? Where are the operatives of the OGPU, what are they doing? Could you verify this information and inform the Central Committee of the All-Union Communist Party about taken measures. This information comes right out of the Soviet archives, which your source ignores. avr.org.ua/index.php/Ust/169/?a=1 This is reason why most historians have absolutely backed off from the "Holodomor" narrative and also the idea that Stalin was deliberately exporting grain. You are simply relying on outdated, selective information, why you would so as someone who is allegedly left-wing is something you need to decide for yourself. Recommended reading: garethjones.org/tottlefraud.pdf
Pretty sure the guy with the Christian anime girls is Holla Forums astroturfing. In many other threads agrees with swastika posters ("I hate to agree with Holla Forums", see ) and tries hard to fit in with anarchists and anti-MLs but by quoting pretty stupid anti-communist propaganda.
What I forgot to add is that the quotes and the other information clearly confirms that the famine wasn't a result of a failure of central planning, but a lack thereof. You can clearly see that telegrams between officials seem to be confused at first. If there wasn't such turmoil and independence of the local managemend the famine could have been palliated better or even avoided completely.
Sorry, fiction isn't source
kill yourself you support and justify mass murderers
what is meant by this?
So what shithole did you crawl out from?
Recriminalization of homosexuality, I suppose? Revitalization of the Orthodox Church?
Not the end date on that. It actually turns out that religion encourages recruitment to fight nazis more than socialism.
Which is fine I guess. They weren't collaborating with the Nazis so using their ideological power in a fight for survival seems acceptable.
The book I gave you which you are so kindly continuing to not bother to read delves into these telegrams that you consider to be so important. My book was released 9 days ago, why the fuck WOULDN'T it have up to date information? The answer? It does, you just didn't read the book and spat out your same regurgitated answer that you give to everyone who questions you.
You'll notice if you re-read the first telegram
That they are actually RECOMMENDING that force be used to compel Ukrainians to reach the quota targets that CAN'T BE MET BECAUSE ALL THE GRAIN HAS ALREADY BEEN TAKEN.
As for Stalin's telegram, far from exonerating him they condemn him. See attached since you aren't bothering to read my book.
Fuck off we all know Holla Forums doesn't read. The don't even know what ML even is, everything is just in the spooky category of "democrat jewish cultural marxists who are oppressing me!!!111" for them. The mods can see my post history they know I don't come from Holla Forums. No one from Holla Forums reads anything other than Mein Kampf and shitty jpgs.
So many of you anti-tankies are basically enabling them cause you faggots keep spouting stale anti-communist propaganda about muh 100 million muh kulaks instead of stating actual facts like that the soviets functioned as rubber stamps, and that "revisionism" was the inevitable result of party rule.
posts above you talk about direct numbers and fuck ups in great detail
This. The whole "people only become anarchists/trots because they don't wanna have to defend the USSR" thing seems pretty believable when you see anarchists/trots attack the USSR on stuff even a lot of liberals know is retarded cold war anti-communist propaganda. There was a trot in some thread the other day that repeated over and over that the USSR was basically like Nazi Germany and that ML's are just like nazis. I didn't even believe that shit when I was a centrist liberal.
Why tho. I don't see anything banworthy in this thread.
The problem with Stalinism is not that it never accomplished anything, but rather that its accomplishments did not arise organically from the proletariat, or evolve with guidance from a proletarian state or party. They were imposed on the proletariat and peasantry by top-down fiat backed up by force of arms - forced collectivization, forced industrialization, forced soviet satellite states, etc. This gets results but it builds resentment among the people and leaves the arrangement vulnerable to revisionism, because as soon as the Leader is dead or out of power more moderates who want to take some of the pressure off end up in charge. Which is probably why tankies never shut up about Stalin, because their ideal world is one in which Stalin is immortal, and can carry on the naked coercion of the soviet state in perpetuity, or towards some vague point in the distant future where such measures are not needed.
The other thing is that directly spreading socialism through military invasion and occupation of other countries is now made near-impossible through the threat of nuclear war. This is why the USSR stopped directly challenging capitalist states after the 40s and pursued detente and covert proxy wars for decades. You can't just roll in the tanks and crush capitalism anymore, that hasn't been a reasonable strategy for half a century.
According to one Timothy Snyder, excess deaths under Stalin are 6m deliberately and 3m more if you count wilfull disregard for life-endangering situations i.e. mass deportations under shoddy conditions.
Except they literally did nothing wrong. Nuns deserved it. If anything it was the Trots who fucked things by forcing the rest of the left to enter parliament and thus securing the treachery network that would ensue from the tension,
wdhmbt I know it's a falseflagging tankie
Falseflagging as a leftcom.
Just for clarity, I wasn't the false flagging Leftcom. What happened was that I got banned for no reason, then the ban was removed (because I guess someone saw it was bullshit). Then I posted again, wasn't banned anymore got banned again for "evasion" for a completely different post. This is reason why I could reply to the anime posting user for a while but never got arround answering Bat'ko.
Whatever. Holla Forums these days bans more often and volatile than fucking r/socialism
that's bullshit my dude
Just some proof for what I said ilcx
It bans more volatile for sure, there are no rules as to what is allowed and as a ML you always are on a hitlist here
Anyway, don't wanna derail the thread anymore and phone posting sucks, I'm outta here
What the fuck is this meme? It's the third world that upholds Stalin above anyone else.
true, but still it doesnt mean hes literally hitler
1) It was illegitimate government 2) the revolution was started by social democratic party and was more of council communist/syndicalist in nature than Marxist, despite the latter`s attempts to hijack it and whole civil war in 1960`s propaganda campaigns.
There is nothing wrong about defending the fatherland form clear attempt at pure landgrap. If Stalin would have wanted to spread socialism to Finland he would have done so instead of just taking our second largest industrial city and mines in the north.
I wish he was my grandpa
I beg your pardon…?
Antarctica should be blue since it's not a country
It's various parts have been claimed by First world Nations, so it should technically be colored black.
He was too lenient on the capitalists in Ukraine and it allowed them to wreak havoc on the peasantry.