New left caucus in DemCops

this looks really good to me

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go fuck yourself

According to this, the caucus hopes to turn the Democratic Cops of America into an actual worker's party, as opposed to just being an organization that works along with
some Democrats. That sounds pretty alright.

wtf rude

im really into the dual card ban lifting, im a PSL fanboy but Democratic Cops of America was more local and suited to my available times

Can't you do both? I thought PSL were a party and the D-S-A were a pressure group so being members of both was acceptable?

Also reminder that the early SPA was made up of former democrats and Debs himself ran as a democratic House member.

DSoA currently has a ban on being a member of a democratic centralist organization. this is because of their shitty anticommunist past.

Thats pretty dumb. Id be ok if they would ban being a member of a distinctly anti-socialist org like the GOP or police or something.

Ask yourself how many times in history this has succeeded.

how many times worker's parties have broken with bourgeois reformist parties to form revolutionary formations?

like, tons.

banning police/police union membership is part of the platform


but the Democratic Cops of America was never a worker's party so that's clearly not the situation

Well it's not even a party so…

trying to build a worker's party from Democratic Cops of America is a good idea, whether or not Democratic Cops of America ends up being that party. clearly a large third party is necessary, even for the reformists who want to push the democrats left (need an alternative to threaten them with).

that's to prevent trot entryists lmao

prevent them from what? trotting up the place? who cares we have 30k its not like they can do anything

you dont know trots

Please fuck the fuck off. Succdems should be immediately banned every time they post on Holla Forums no exceptions

what the fuck are you saying, did you read the post

DSA has always been and will always be opportunism and really shitty entryism. I don't give a fuck if a tiny faction of "real" communists exist in the 2017 incarnation. Fuck off

"W-we gotta vote 4 hillary 2 beat trump guize xD"

either read the OP or don't post

Either accept you aren't a leftist by supporting the most impotent liberal horseshit in all of America or don't post

youre embarrassing both of us so i'll stop responding

They literally never did that

this shit will die as soon as a democrat comes into office again. worthless idpol red liberals

I just meant that saying we need to support succdems cuz they're "the best america has" or some shit is just allowing yourself to be classcucked to infinity

Also I don't really want to waste my time reading some worthless document from one of the most impotent "leftist" groups in the entire god damn universe

most of the Democratic Cops of America's most ardent critics know nothing about it, if they did they'd know its honestly an okay org, its a multi-tendency group and there's plenty of edgy democrats that are being all shitty and acting like the commies are ruining their precious progressive party, but there's plenty of genuine socialists. My local Democratic Cops of America is full of Luxembourg fans.

Why pretend you have any idea what they do? What a shit contribution
yeah yeah, "contribution+ flag"

freakin word filter

Opinion discarded


They have been anti-democrat for a while now
It's multi-tendency
Read the OP

It honestly depends on chapter to chapter. There is a small group of red liberals in my local D.S.A but the majority are socialists who have worked with Redneck Revolt and black block groups. It is a good way to network with other workers' groups fuck what anyone says. I highly doubt D.S.A will just fade away when a Democrap assumes office, there is just too many radical sentiments and genuine frustrations towards the system

It's clear you don't buddy, so

Agreed, I think after the 2018 midterms a lot of the red libs will leave if the actual leftists refuse to just unconditionally support the dems just to defeat the mean GOP

Is there any expression of politics you don't consider infantile?

Yep, Popular Fronts are a great way to real revolution, just look at how great all those Western Countries that tried them are now!

DSA was a succdem org for 30 fucking years do you think they would suddenly change into a revolutionary one just because a tiny fraction of their membership wrote "How to Entryism #90000000"

There hasn't been any demonstrably "great way" to foment "real revolution" in the west, because one hasn't happened yet. Just read it and shit on it if you're capable (which you're not) or move on.

Something like

literal article from their de facto party rag

DSA is certainly not the Bolsheviks but they're poised to be the bedrock of the US left more than any other group. They also spend more time actually doing work with communities and active political movements then defending foreign regimes that will always remain deeply unpopular with the US population under current circumstances.

Ever since I saw the more organized chapters fix broken tail lights for others for free I was willing to give them the benefit of the doubt. Real organizing is hard, boring and often thankless work, you need to do a lot of it and having new talent coming up with ways to exploit the cracks in the system is what we need. Because if WE don't do it our opponents will continue to dole out their own meagre patronage to those who need it

Do you understand what you are saying?


Jacobin doesn't only publish articles that adhere to the editorial line, often ones that disagree with it - one of the few good things about it.

That article, for instance, was written by Charlie Post, a member of the ISO.

The irony that you say this yet would probably be vehemently against any type of Soviety-type system being implemented today is absolutely fucking hillarious

Hmm where have I heard this argument before?

Is it happening, guys? Are the DemCops actually radicalizing?

Remind me why I should care about class traitors unionizing again?

From people like you mostly

What does that have to do with OP?

Seems like the new members are pushing out the left liberals who had dominated the organization before.

lol my b

My local is legit. Full of radicals pushing out the old guard and networking with local labor groups. Joining every picket line they can find, dropping political-economic analysis. For fucks sake, one of our sub-branches holds meetings in the AFL-CIO regional office.

They're actually integrating socialism with labor again, and it's goddamn beautiful.

Holy hell, that salt is delicious as fuck.

i really dont want to join Democratic Cops of America but i feel like joining a leftist org will be good for my health

are there truly no better options?

You don't have to officially "join" to go to meetings and get to know the people there. Also check out other orgs like ISO, PSL, SAlt, IWW, etc in your area and scope them out as well

General rule is that the local chapters on average are much more radical than the national, and that the newer the chapter the more radical it is (older means that it has a long history spanning back to the pre-surge days)

Also kinda ironic they dont let you be a SAlt or PSL member considering how often they work with them and support their candidates.

It's an old rule but it does kind of have merit. If Democratic Cops of America become the fighting grounds for every other leftist party to try to wrest control from each other it would just be a shitshow.

good Holla Forums meme

Shouldn't that be defined in a way that has a starting point? Surely they can't mean 50 % of all caucus votes? How will this work in twenty years?
It's always a great idea to set in stone using the services of particular companies.
How is cybermalespreading real?
This is ambiguous. People who are sorta Schrödinger's Whitey are very common and this will likely cause much more of a headache than trans people. But there is another problem. More on that below.
Err, that's not what the term simple majority usually means. What's described there is a minimum quorum of people with voting rights having to approve a decision for it to pass.
Electing the EC:
Approval scores without reweighting isn't a proportional method and having a constraint on how many you can approve being equal to the number of seats doesn't make it so either. That constraint is an American tradition that was invented by a brainlet and serves no purpose whatsoever.
This lacks a rule enforcing the mentioned requirement of having non-male and non-white people in the EC. Example text for such a rule:
Assign seats to candidates one seat at a time, starting with the candidate who received the most votes, then consider the candidate with the second-most votes, and so on. Only assign a seat to a candidate if it's still possible to assign the rest of the seats after that in a way that the total composition of the EC meets the diversity requirements, otherwise delete that candidate.
So, a minimum participation quorum. That means when you are against a change, your very participation can make the decision go over the threshold. It should be instead a quorum only of people who are for that change.


If you're just doing it for the psychological benefits of LARPing, what does it matter?


it turned me autistic + retarded

what is EC?
is it kinda like a central committee?

and what about this caucus?

So, why do leftists start panicking and infighting as soon as they gain even a little bit of traction? Why are we so afraid of going "mainstream"? The D$A is the largest even vaguely leftist org the USA has had for decades, I dont think our burger comrades are not gonna get another chance like this at real influence. Even if its are all idpol and soccdems, we should still follow them closely and examine and critique them fairly instead of just sperging out when ever someone mentions them.

There's too many burgers here, and the only burgers that talk about the D.S.A. are either members themselves or are in the PSL and super salty about it. There are no third party impartial observers.

>Electing the EC
Electing the SC

That was a mixup, the Steering Committee was meant. The Election Committee oversees the election of the SC.

It's fair to point out that the bylaws of Democratic Cops of America Refoundation are bad. In one section they demand some guaranteed representation of women and non-whites, and in another section they describe the election rules 'that do nothing to meet these constraints''. So what's supposed to happen here? Run election, declare result invalid, run another one, declare result invalid, and so on, until it works out? There are always ambiguities in rules for humans, these rules are not computer programs, but there is a gap in the fundamental rules of Refoundation that doesn't need to be there, and in post a way is described how to fill the gap.

Even with the fix, the election system would still be pretty bad though. The block voting that is the base is good for returning a homogeneous blob, so this tacked-on diversity will be people of the kind most in line with the white male mainstream of the party. It would make more sense to either use a proportional election method without extra rules about diversity (proportional already means diverse) or to use separate single-winner elections with different and clearly defined voter groups like men, women, new members, long-term members (and not race as that is a too ambiguous concept, a person who gets considered as non-white in a very white city may be considered as cleary white in another).

The AFL-CIO is one the worst trade unions on the planet. They've been fucking over workers internationally with the help of the CIA for almost 50 years.

I’m not a member nor a Trot. I’m frustrated with how focused some elements want to be solely on idpol issues, but I also recognize that, as an org, it’s the best chance leftists and left-sympathizers have had in the U.S. in ages to actually organize and push their ideas. Some people would rather just sit around jerking off and reading theory while waiting for a their own fabled brand of revolution than trying to pursue any kind of progress, even if the vehicle is flawed, as the right becomes more emboldened and militant.

Alright boys, I'm tired of shitposting on Holla Forums about what I want
I want to take action
Should I bite the bullet and join the D$A for the purposes of getting into this caucus?
Is it likely that it'll make a difference or will the D$A keep being red liberals

if you have no better options then join
just don't pay shit because leadership will steal it anyway
mind your own local business, at least it would be better than shitposting in your basement

You can join without paying dues?
The application for the RC requires that you be dues paying

I mean don't pay beyond your dues
sometimes your faggot "comrades" may want to try and pressure you to raise funds for the cause and all that
my advice - don't fucking bend under pressure
give them a finger, and they'll take the whole hand

Even the ones that require dues usually let you sit in on some meetings before committing, and of course no one is ultimately turned away for failure to pay.