Was he right, has liberalization led to a commodification of sex, a sexual revolution or "ladies night"?

Was he right, has liberalization led to a commodification of sex, a sexual revolution or "ladies night"?

"Just like unrestrained economic liberalism, and for similar reasons, sexual liberalism produces phenomena of absolute pauperization. Some men make love every day; others five or six times in their life, or never. It’s what’s known as the ‘law of the market.’ In an economic system where unfair dismissal is prohibited, every person more or less manages to find their place. In a sexual system where adultery is prohibited, every person more or less manages to find their bed mate. In a totally liberal economic system certain people accumulate considerable fortunes; others stagnate in unemployment. In a totally liberal sexual system certain people have a varied and exciting erotic life; others are reduced to masturbation and solitude."

Other urls found in this thread:

sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/09/150929142252.htm
blogs.chapman.edu/crean/2015/09/29/new-research-analyzes-height-weight-income-and-more-in-regards-to-sex-and-dating/
theblog.okcupid.com/your-looks-and-your-inbox-8715c0f1561e
psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

REEEEEEEEE

Fuck off

based BO

...

ABOLISH THE SEXUAL FREE MARKET TODAY!

Look that guy looks like a fucking goblin

...

...

...

You forgot your flag, socdem.

Equality of result is not guaranteed with social stuff.

That's an odd way to phrase "recognising the obvious effects of an ideologies beliefs".

Nor is it guaranteed with economic stuff

sexual free market

everything is deterministic

Why is a market bad? Exactly?

Then what's the point in me advocating for higher wages? I have a low social status as a welder.
People look down on me for having a blue collar job. People treat me like shit for making less than 30k a year. If these social issues aren't related to our wages being raised then wtf??

The Godfather of Incels

His brooding is jumping out of my LCD.

You cannot put these issues in the same category as resource distribution because we are capable of feeding and housing everybody thanks to technological advances, but mates are always a scarce resource

You need consent and genuine mutual affection to have a relationship. You can't force that, and forcing it is really despicable.

btw just because some French filmmaker says it, doesn't make it any less pathetic

Culture, politics, art, media, etc determine attraction. They override base social darwinistic impulses.

Those who have the most control over the levers of culture, politics, art, and media etc determine who mates.

It's not like there's this zone of determinism that only encompasses wages and then everything else is just people choosing things. People don't choose anything.

And?

He pointed out a phenomena, he never said it needed to be addressed. The fact that your are disgusted at it possibly being addressed makes you subtly say that it's not a phenomena. All he was doing was describing something that is happening, that's all.

Your sexual attractiveness isn't a result of your choices. It's the result of higher systems. People that complain about not having partners aren't talking about
They are saying the higher systems *that determine attraction* lead to too much stratification and can be made more egalitarian.

No one is going to have to have sex with someone they don't want to have sex with.

And….?


Thatt's implying a lot frankly.

Sure. I don't disagree with that.

Ok right. And a lot of people assume that the incel posters in here call for forced lifelong monogamy. Now I'd actually like to see that debated in a leftist context, but arguably, yes arranged marriages seem to imply that women will have more regretful sex than they do now.

But no leftist here even calls for that. They generally call for less hamfisted approaches.

I don't think there should be any approaches. And people have tonnnss of sex with people they think are repulsive. It's kind of naive to think otherwise.

The opposite sex shouldn't seek to force something out from the opposite sex. It should be to educate people better how to deal with sex. And frankly that's lacking in America and nobody wants to touch it, and nobody wants to admit that teaching kids about sex is pretty fucking vital as part of their education.

I would say, a lack of mature sexual education in America is a major part of this conversation that isn't touched upon.

...

Are you saying a lack of sexual education, and the stripping of it, isn't a cause in all of this?

my response sounded like I was downplaying your response. But only because you said there were no solutions and then offered part of a solution.

Yes increasing sexual education and making America less puritan could help.

Everyone keeps saying you can't make for people into a relationship, but marriages are enforced with state violence and the ransom of your children.
I think you mean you can impose sexual realtionships on women, it's a ok to do it to men.

Man since when so many social elitists decide to join the left

The subject of social elitists joining the left and lumpens and blue collar people joining the right has been written about…. constantly.

*Marriage, child support, and child custody are all enforced by state violence. It's not force women into sexual relationships with men but it's okay to force men into them.

What's your solution? I certainly don't have one

No you don't, we force men into sexual relationships with women all the time. Marriage, child support, and child custody are all enforced with state violence.
The threat of these disciplines how men act in a sexual relationship with women.
It's not okay to force women into sexual relationships or force them to behave a certain way within those sexual relationships, like say getting requiring consent from the father before having a child, but a okay to do it to men.

I never said it was ok to do it to men. Obviously state control of men using divorce laws and the like is terrible.

Are you going to argue for state sponsored gfs now or what?

another bogeyman
literally no one ever proposed this, ok well maybe like one insane person somewhere did

Propose an alternative, a solution, whatever. I'm waiting to hear it motherfucker. Or will you keep complaining about lefties making fun of those poor incels forever

Abolish all property rights afforded by marriage, this will stop women from using sexual relationships as a mean of upward mobility

Done

I don't agree with all of these. But if you can't think of ways to change the way our desires are controlled, that's just a lack of imagination, not a dead end.

You meme but as soon as there is a critical mass of petite bourgeois women, feminists will be clamoring for this very thing. Mark my fucking words.

lefties don't make fun of incels. Probably about half this board are incels or foreveralones or whatever. People don't like the word incel 'cuz the right hijacked it, so maybe I'll just say foreveralone now.

The people that make fun of incels are the Red Pillers and right wing socialists. The meritocrats who have a reactionary social outlook.

Dude there's a bunch Chapo/Weird Twitter anons on here and they mercilessly ridicule incels.

This is what I say all the time in threads like these. Why is it so hard to understand to supposed leftists on this board that capital defintely affects people's sex lives. It does not exist outside of capitalism in some Disney-tier realm of trancendence that "love conquers all" even a mexican gardner with his body broken by years of hard physical labor can woo some callous bourgeois woman who has a personal trainer and dietician.

What if I don't watch Chapo or use Twitter and I still bully every virgin nerd I see?

Because most of the anons on this board are sheltered suburbanites that aren't effected by this particular type of alienation.

we talk about this shit all the time you sperg.

Then your head is haunted by Amerifat social climbing spooks. What other explanation can there be for putting your limited time and energy into something like that.

I said most anons, reading comprehension homie, get some

Richard Wolff wouldn't bully anyone for that…

we have this thread
every day

Those 3 images are contradictory as fuck my man

what the fuck is wrong with his fucking hair?

"Your materialism ends where my sex life begins"
-Women

they aren't, apart from the third one which is bullying they deal with alienation and commodification of sex, which is where all these 'regulate the sexual free market'-ideas stem from

Watch them eat all those words as soon as sex robots take off.

this is why I think sex work should be legal and available for the population to manage to incel problem.

To be fair there's been more mass killings *explicitly* in the name of sexual outcome inequality than income inequality. Even if the latter OBVIOUSLY aggravates or even causes the former.

I kind of want feedback on this. I think it would be hilarious if someone started campaigning about "trans incel awareness" on leftbook. Like multiple people. Especially if they are trans.

I delight in the suffering of people on the internet who can't stop taking bait?

But why, cause your conditioned by your spooks to climb the social hierarchy by putting other more vulnerable people down. What else can be gained other than that.

It's not going to work. Incels want some kind of emotional relationship, not just a fuck. Remember, we operated under a de-facto female surplus for a long time due to men dying in wars, and women were also more constrained by social norms in their sexual behavior. Now that that's all changed, we're approaching an 80/20 market where 20% of the men get 80% of the women. I believe Tinder already has an 80/20 market, and there was that one study of okcupid in which women rated 80% of men as below average in attractiveness…

This probably won't end well, but there's no stopping it.

Oh shit I'm so lucky I'm into dudes because that sounds awful.

It's just how things are with our species. Many women would prefer being a side bitch to a top-tier guy to a relationship with a bottom-80%er. Obesity isn't helping, either.

Hmm if you lose all faith in women and follow this kind of thinking to it's logical conclusion I feel like you'll end up wanting a harsh warrior-slave society where all the weak men die off naturally and women are mostly property to be claimed and kept at home by the few successful warrior men.

Online dating really is accelerating dating into hell and crazy inequality.

WHich is funny because online dating in theory is ideal for shut ins. But it's actually harder than IRL for male shut ins.

Not really. Subpar men will just amuse themselves with VR or sex bots until they die, and women will choose polygamy.

This depends on where you live, tbh. You're right that the net effect is definitely terrible.

It won't fix the incel problem but I can definitely see it balancing the 80/20 market. I know most incels want a relationship but a lot of these frustrated 18 to 20 year olds just want to get their dick wet and there is nothing wrong with that but most guys gotta start somewhere. Maybe also make mental health and socialization services more available to help with social ineptness

mental health services made my incel problem 1000x worse by feeding me infantilizing drugs on a daily basis

possibly the worst "solution"

But if society is unjustly slanted towards women and there's no chance of the two approaching an equal grounds then I feel that the next conclusion is to feel that there needs to be MORE of a justification for these superior men getting all the women than just good looks. You need some kind of war or economy or some other destructive social game to participate in where the weaker men are justified in not having any chance to pass on their genetics and women are rightfully claimed as prize by the successful men. This is if you really see men and women as a sexual economy btw. If you really believe in this then it is morally justified in throwing men through a meat grinder of some kind rather than letting them sit in a hovel with their sex bots until they die.
That's just my general opinion though. I'm a socialist so I don't believe in the sexual economy.

rolls eyes
everything is commodified my dude

You hardly even need to consider it as a market. Women are not really into the bottom 80% of men, and without external constraints, we will have a whole lot of polygamy going on.

First and third image are polar opposites though and I'm disappointed that Rachel is/was a brainlet on the subject.

I don't believe in it as a part of human nature fatso.


Nonsense. You don't even know what a socialist society without our disgustingly vapid sex industry is like. Most popular guys today probably fit something that women have been trained to like by the media.

Nothing really surprising here. Women hate weak men. Social Darwinism is okay in the dating market - bootstrap yourself, comrade!

In theory it isn't ideal for incels. Online dating is basically Amazon/eBay for mates. It gives an inflated sense of choice

Irl women have much lower standards and if they asked the right girl to hang out after work or whatever they'd get a gf. It's not like women don't have dry spells too, it's not like they too don't crave that same connection these incels too that's more than just sex

Or they will try to have it both ways. There are a lot of cucks out there.Women complain about not finding a man to settle down with, but it's always after they've already fucked around. I say that at the very least, adultery should be penalised if you are tricking your partner. There is no excuse for it.

Men cheat more than women

lel if you believe that

1. Proofs?
2. And?

Anyways it'd be interesting to see just how many of these incels actually make any effort with women. I mean is it really "pull yourself by the bootstraps" logic if all you're expected to do is actually try at all?

Which is why I didn't limit it to women, brainlet.

I'm recently divorced, and haven't dated since I was 20. I'm 27. Shit can be difficult, and you have no idea.

The thing is when people say "try at all" they don't really mean "just approach women with interest in a relationship". They mean all the things you do to maintain yourself as a good prospect, including some things like natural physical attractiveness that some people are just unlucky with. But by wrapping all that up int "just try lmao" they can make it seem like relationships are simpler than they really are and contribute to people's misunderstanding of how it all works. This "just try and you'll be rewarded" mentality is the genesis of the "nice guy" who lashes out when "just try"ing results in rejection. And ultimately this really is the exact same line of thinking as "muh bootstraps" - it takes the complexities and reduces it down to "you just need the will/hard work/other essence and it will come naturally" and it usually comes from people who were fortunate enough to get the positive traits that allow them to succeed without really trying (inherited wealth, natural looks/charisma, etc.).

Oh shit I'm 26. You're an older divorced guy and you're only a year older than me. Ahhhhhh

Anyways I'm sure there's a lot of situations. But is it really too much to imagine that a 20 year old guy who's literally never tried asking a girl out might be sitting by himself thinking about how unfair it is while never having made the effort? There's a difference between "well you need to get fit, change your personality, get rich, better clothes" and "hey have you tried talking to a girl?"

Doesn't matter, the beauty industry, the movie industry, the print industry, literally every industry has more influence on sexual desires than our nature. It overrides it. Also I'm not fat. I'm average weight, and as an American "skinny"

oh shit I always forget to hit the update button before replying
I don't know, man. I've never been on a date and I've literally never asked a girl out. I feel like there's a correlation there. Are you an incel or former incel?

Sure there are guys that don't try at all. Eliot Rodger, for example, didn't even know he was supposed to. However, many guys do try, and I know a few, and they still get nowhere, or worse sleep with a girl, and nothing more, which is fine if you're just looking for sex, but not if you want to get rid of loneliness.

There it is.
It's hard enough to get a second or third date as a pretty normal, below average looking guy who just happens to have the wrong interests. I can't imagine how hard it is for someone in a position similar to mine who's never had friends, never felt confident and has only a small amount of positive social interaction to """"""""""just try""""""""""

Her FULL comic basically said

it made fun of that girl in that out of context cell just as it made fun of the alt-right twitter guy

Not many, and most incels would better fit under the "love shy" category rather than the category reserved for the constantly rejectted.

Or if you don't like the term "love shy" because psychiatrists don't use it, then "social anxiety disorder will suffice.

99% of incels just don't meet enough people to find a mate. They male incels also probably have feminine or submissive qualities to them and their added social anxiety just never made them attractive to women growing up, so they just assume women won't like them if they ask them out.

Yeah you should look at what i was saying to the other guy. I'm specifically saying that things may be a whole lot less slanted in a socialist society without all these industries.
I know that feel. This fat fucking country my god.


I understand that. Finding a partner can be tough in general though. I mean how many women are actually worth settling down and having a monogamous relationship with?


Eh you guys are making me feel bad. I really wish there was a way to set up all the incels with nice girls but how many of them are ok with dating an ugly/chubby girl? Or one that's not a virgin?


Yeah if you're just never around people then obviously your chances of finding a mate are zero.

The problem is there are a lot of women in the same boat, who guys stay away from because they don't consider them "dateble"

Have you considered that maybe there are people who have asked girls out and not succeeded?

No. I don't date though because it's honestly a parade of bullshit. I'm currently single and fine with it until I meet someone I'd like to be in a relationship with. Incels would probably benefit most not by "trying" with women but by learning to be ok by themselves and be complete people on their own without needing a relationship. An SO shouldn''t "complete you" they should complement you (and you them).


That's a pretty charitable interpretation considering Alunya is generally the voice of reason if hotheaded. It looks more to me like "they're going to turn reactionary anyway so don't bother with them" but even if it isn't, it's ambiguous enough that the prevailing attitude (the latter) can be supported with the comic.

There were people who didn't know whether it was also a satire of Alunya in the discussion after she posted it.

Regardless wanting to reach out to the far right and then failing to is a failure.

Unless you are a skinny white girl on a dating site. Or a male model.

Why throw out the whole thing though? If I could get the incels who "just need to try" into relationships it would be a pretty good victory. We'll work on solving the ones who are like….ugly or mentally damaged next.

I like that asking a small personal question got a big long response. Very nice.
I completely agree that the incels should be trying to be happy with themselves before dedicating themselves to finding a partner. This is the classic advise of "you need to love yourself before etc etc". But when does the next step come? They are still lonely after all. If they never interact with people or try looking then it's always going to be at the "happy to be alone" stage.


Well I'd say a dating site is a kind of "being around people".

I fit the category of incel to a tee.
But I'm not
a gamer
misogynist
racist
alt-right
have high standards
etc

which may not be believable as someone that posts on leftypol, but it's true…

I may have character flaws that prevent me from finding a mate, but the SJW narrative about why I don't have a mate is 100% off.

All a woman has to do is not smell and not be a bitch or a whore.

Jesus how do you pass the time.

JUST TAKE A SHOWER BRO

THE ONLY MEN WHO ARE INCELS ARE THE ONES WHO DON'T TAKE SHOWERS

PERFECTLY NORMAL MEN WHO SHOWER REGULARLY ARE NOT INCELS

JUST TAKE A SHOWER AND BE YOURSELF

The incels who aren't out and about are online. They would be better served by not being online that much. Other people can find mates by being online, incels can't as they playing field is worse for them online than offline. Like someone else said, online dating is like a place where people shop for stuff they can't find in real life, so the people on the bottom of the sexual pecking order aren't the top shelf items that get attention.

If you are low sexual value and on Tinder or a dating site. YOU KNOW it.

Different person, but I've never had a girlfriend either and I'm not a gamer, woman hater, racist, alt-right, overweight, etc.

I'm just not attractive enough and don't want an overweight girlfriend. Women's standards are very high nowadays.

I don't thing guys are hung up on virginity so much as being the guy that the girl "settles" for, as in they only pick them later in life after having their share of fun, while they got none of that and are still expected to be thankful for it. I can see how that would build resentment, and some dudes don't even get that.

shitposting about politics and coding

but honestly I've considered video gaming seriously as an escape, but the "gaming community" is so vile

You realize in the USA after about age… 30 that actually does become a high standard. Before age 30 or so that's medium standard, but not low standard.

You'll never be one of us, kid.

Honestly, I think both men and women want a relationship, but I think the proportions are off. I would really just like an average girl that won't cheat on me or spend me into debt. I don't need a woman to cook or clean. I do it a lot better anyway. I just want to be loved, and that's hard when a lot of women think they need to be worshiped, mostly due to capitalist media.

This line is so damn common these days and it really captures an entire ideology now. Did someone invent this or something? I feel like I was just on the internet and one day this exact line just popped into existence on 4chan. I don't even have anything that backs it up since I've never seen it irl.

I've seen the opposite though. Guy and girl marry young and then one of them wants to run off and have sexual adventures. Happens all the time.


Yeah I know how you feel satan. I only play single-player games though. Multiplayer is only fun for me if I have a friend over for street fighter something. So i can see the look on their face when I crush them.

?

Yes, it actually is because I'm American. I live in one of the least fat states, though. I'm in my 20s. I've never even had a girl interested in me - the closest I had was a female "friend" who led me on for awhile in college for laughs.

Anyway, it's not that big of a deal. I'm hoping to be an academic in the future, so I can just invest the time I would've invested into a relationship elsewhere. No point investing time in dating when you're ugly.

Happened to my wife. Seriously, I wish I could not care about that, but that really may be human nature. I still get fucking angry when I think about it. I'm glad I'm not the violent type.

All anyone can ever really hope to be is a person someone else is willing to settle for. It's the sexual insecurity element that's actually important.

Sex has been commofied long, long before capitalism.

But I confess that likening Chaddism and the "Pareto sex distribution" and other sexual liberalism to economic liberalism does make me feel like opposing it.

at least add overweight women to your consideration. You can forget obese women if you feel like it, but skinny and average women can be pretty shit in bed, and overweight women aren't really that bad.

Honestly it's interesting to hear about but I should shut up about online dating since I've never participated in it. It really sounds like a nightmare though.


Anyone else see this a lot these days? I feel like there's a lot of shy looking skinny dudes walking around with these chicks that are just perfectly circular. I feel really bad for these guys but at least they're not alone? They usually look happy.


You mean she wanted to go be a slut and left you? Hey man if we're going by personal examples where I'm aware of this happening I'm at two for the men running off and 1 for the woman running off.

It actually happens. Mostly to women in their 30s, though.

You're wrong.

Newslflash: people don't like to be leftovers.

If you don't like someone because you want to fuck someone else, that's fine, but don't act like it's a favor to date them when Chad stops. Nobody wants to be your safety. If you were going to end up there anyway, why not start there?

Seize the means of procreation! Centrally-planned economy to equally distribute a girlfriend to every comrade!

Can't feel attraction to overweight girls or brown/yellow girls. They just don't do anything for me, maybe I am racist after all. This is why obesity is such a problem, it decreases the size of the female dating pool so much.


Girls who aren't overweight have their value inflated. I'd rather just be alone than with someone I'd be grossed out by. I hate fat people so much. Seriously, just stop eating. I can lose 10 pounds in 5 days by just cutting my food intake, how the fuck do women get up to 250 pounds?

You are why I get shit for being an incel
pls go

I'm one of those guys. I'm really happy and satisfied. I'm insulted you feel bad for me. The way I see it is I get upset if women discount me for superficial things so it's hypocritical if I do the same.

You're missing the point, fam. The problem isn't the lack of relationships. The problem is the social conditioning that makes them feel like they need a relationship. The first pic here covers what I'm talking about. The problem is seeing yourself as a sexual commodity/object above the rest of your qualities. That hangup/insecurity by itself is a hugely unattractive feature which will improve one's chances at relationships (even though that's not the point of personal growth).
That's more a matter of societal expectations. People who are genuinely ugly (not just unaware of how to present themselves well) aren't just going to be fixed, and neither are people with psychological (or physical) problems. And they shouldn't have to be "fixed" either.

"No" and two sentences of elaboration is not particularly long, and I specifically wanted to give you room to call me an incel if you thought that I am.
That advice is "classic" because it's simply true. If you don't love yourself then your relationships will be about filling that hole instead of loving and being loved by the other person.
Start by not being alone in general - socialize more. As for not being alone in terms of relationships not everybody is in a relationship at all times. If someone really is happy alone they'll be able to accept when they're alone and recognize opportunities to no longer be alone so they can take them if it looks like it will be worth it.

Pretty much, but not before she tried to claim that I was violent and my PTSD was to blame. I left because she asked me to, then I found out she'd been seeing a guy from her work the past few months. She could have just told me, and I would have not been that hurt. I thought I could work it out for a long time. Didn't realize she was just getting rid of me. But I'll be fine. One thing I'm not doi g is ever taking her back. I'm a good man, and I only made the mistake of thinking she agreed. I don't know how likely I am to get married again, but I honestly do feel lonely.

I can't wait until medical science allows us to kill future white incels in the womb so I can finally let go of idpol forever

Well actually women biologically have a harder time losing weight. I mean that's no excuse. But "10 pounds in 5 days" probably isn't even possible for most chicks.

Seriously though I don't blame you, these chicks just make me want to knock them over. Like cow pushing. Something inside me I can't control. Like your horrible racism against chinks. :^)


Oh shit. What if I've seen you walking around with your pumpkin shaped gf? Sorry though dude. I am totally glad you're happy. You keep doing you.

It's actually a extremely common attitude among incels. I know plenty of black girls who've been single for years and pretty much will date anyone who shows real affection, but they never know because they're too busy chasing after muh aryan wives I guess

I know. I was one of those people, but IIRC Rachel clarified the intent and she was on Alunya's side.
Unless you view the belief that it was possible as the failure, which is (again) in line with the prevailing view.

I've never been in a social circle with black chick ever. My upbringing was really weird. I grew up around super rich white girls. But of course I'd date black chicks. Even fascists date black chicks. I'm an incel too.

Being overweight is something that doesn't really have an excuse. If you are an overweight man, that goes for you too.

Eating releases endorphins in the brain. I'll let you figure out the rest.

You have to at least be able to get hard for a girl to have a romantic relationship. Can't get hard for Black or Asian girls. Literally never seen one of either that did anything for me. It's only white or latina girls for me, I suppose.


I was trying to bulk and got up to about 200, then was busy for a few days and was only able to have 2 meals a day. I went down to 190 pretty fast. I'll never become a true Amerifat.

I"ve read statistics that show overweight men have *more* sex than average weight men. Weight actually has very little effect on the number of sexual partners for *men*

Also I'm almost skinny.

I was about to post this, but adding that food is extremely abundant, especially the sugary kind and that capitalism is very stressful.

That fucking sucks user. I really hope you have better luck with women in the future.

If only going by BMI, that would include even me as overweight, and the fact is that you couldn't exactly call me fat. Gonna need source on that.

Being even kind of muscular will quickly put you in the overweight category though.

Five years ago I couldn't get hard to fat chicks. You just don't want to lower your standards.

You seem to nice to be an incel tbh

"Normal weight men and overweight men reported the most sex partners, and underweight men reported the least. Although it may be initially surprising that more overweight men reported the highest number of partners,"
sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/09/150929142252.htm

Yes and the study noted that. But 90% of amerifats aren't high BMI 'cuz they are buff, they are high BMI cuz they are overweight

Also a reminder that the first incel shooter was a ripped body builder

What can I say? Fatness had made a lot of otherwise average to above-average girls into 2-3/10s.

For me I couldn't get hard until I saw those fat titties and chub. You really can't knock it till you've tried it

I think I'm going to be fine. Just gets depressing sometimes. I sort of start feeling the robot vibes and have to remind myself that I'm not a nerdy teen anymore and that I've been through tougher shit. I have started to feel more emphatic toward incels, though. I almost know that feel.

So normal and overweight, not just overweight. As I said, though, no excuse for being fat.

*empathy

blogs.chapman.edu/crean/2015/09/29/new-research-analyzes-height-weight-income-and-more-in-regards-to-sex-and-dating/

What you are saying in the clontext of this discussion is empirically wrong. Look I'm skinny and this chart makes sense to me. But overweight MEN do just fine on average compared to skinny guys.

Men with an * average * BMI of fucking 32 do better than the average range of 18-24

Man this is such an autistic sentence. I love it. How old are you?

A lot of what you're saying is correct though. This is all pretty basic bitch advice. Literally "BE yourself" and "go out more" and "dont rush".

I already went through all this in my late teens/early 20s so I've heard all this before. It doesn't change how hard it is for a lot of these incels to actually change their outlook.

Troublesome implications, laddie.


Women rarely go for that body type. Usually they prefer "ottermode" - guys with a bit more muscle than usual and low body fat. The "athletic" body type. Body builders look like cartoon characters to women because they look like cartoon characters to everyone because they basically are cartoon characters. The point of bodybuilding is to over-exaggerate certain muscles' size to get a striking physique. An actual strong as fuck man doesn't look like a bodybuilder.

His name was George Sodini
He wasn't actually a bodybuilder. For all I know he as ottermode. Point is, he had muscle. Enough with this dumb weightlifting shit, research shows it helps your chances of finding a mate 2x not 1000x.

The best thing is to have a social life. Women REALLY care about that, even if the woman has no social life herself sometimes. Both Sodini and Rodger didn't have friends. That's the thing that united them.

The first incel shooter had muscle, 250k+ in assets, wasn't fugly, and had a big ass house.

He just didn't have friends.

I hope you die alone

The page itself says that overweight does not mean fat. Average BMI is pretty much skinny.

Good to know I'm not the biggest idpol faggot here. From his pov, he'd have to lower his standards. That's all I meant.

you

chart

most amerifats are't ripped, chart shows averages

it appears women hate morbidly obese men more than men hate morbidly obese women


wait does that show that morbidly obese women have the MOST sex?

No one is a bigger slut than fat chicks. No one.

The average man and woman across physical characterists at least have roughly the same amount of sexual partners in their lifetime; and that is pretty few partners, less than 1 per decade.

Turns out we homo sapiens just aren't as sexually hedonistic as your average channer.

The whole "cock carousel" meme of the alt-right is bogus even though yes it is absurdly easier for women to get free sex than men.

Am I sexually hedonistic for wanting more than 0 partners ever?

nope

And those BMIs don't mean fat, you'll notice that overweight women get even more sex. I scale a 29, and I'm not a bodybuilder or fat. You could classify me as athletic if you want to give it a name. I don't have huge arms or legs, but I can run 5 miles and ruck 12.

Yes for the average American with a BMI of say 31, they are fat, not muscly, just look around you,I don't care if you are athletic

It shows that morbidly obese women get the most sex. A BMI past 40 is way past athletic, that's hardly can walk obesity

So I guess now liberals can stop complaining about lard women not getting enough love. Or maybe fat Americans are fucking each other in ways we cannot comprehend.

Someone post the image(s) of this guy, you know the ones.

It doesn't matter how much ironic distance you put between yourself and your actions, you're still going out of your way to belittle people over stupid bullshit, which is kind of pathetic, to be honest.

...

By "sexual outcome inequality" you must mean some married man on the down-low catching AIDS

There's a tribe in the Amazon where every girl looks exactly the same except for breast size. It's weird and perverted in a way that is almost frightening. I think it's just one older man impregnating a bunch of sisters and all of those girls resemble a woman that he once fell in love with. To cure his loneliness he probably looks lustfully upon all of those girls.

Women accustomed to getting by on their personalities will find it difficult to tolerate a man who is not equally romantic and extroverted.

Let's pretend all these lonely males on internet (esp. imageboards) are not lonely because they refuse to date a 4/10 despite them being a 4/10 themselves, they want a 10/10 asian petite princess.

What social hierarchy is there on Holla Forums? Are you sure you aren't the spooked one here?

Well, the evidence seems to point to women being the most unfair judges of attraction, with them judging 80% of men as unattractive. If anyone is doing what you describe, it's women.

You aware of the fact men have much higher standards than women right?

lol

An incel needs opportunities to learn from his mistakes. He has to develop relationships that steadily become more intellectual and less physical so that he becomes less and less desperate about his immediate physical gratification. Women can sense desperation from a mile away because it constantly bombards them whenever they go outside. An incel must learn that his goal of "getting laid" would mean not treating a woman like a whole person. Yeah some women are out to get laid too, but women don't all feel the exactly same way.

There's a YouTube video of the guy who grabs 1000 pairs of boobs. Every woman reacts in a slightly different way. It's not like they all cheerfully accommodate him or incredulously oppose him.

Except they don't.

theblog.okcupid.com/your-looks-and-your-inbox-8715c0f1561e

Add into the fact that we would expect women to be more selective, and the fact that most men throughout history did not reproduce, and you can see why you're full of shit. This is not some "hurr I hate women" shit. I really don't. These are just the facts.

Nice argument.

According to you, women do plastic surgery, wear makeup, spend millions more on grooming and improve their appearance but the evil ones demanding better looks are women, seems legit fam.


Is this nigga serious

This assumption is a combination of projection by women, sass from gays and brainwashing from the cosmetic and clothes industries

It's raw date, but you can use it to try and extrapolate certain things. Even then,

psmag.com/environment/17-to-1-reproductive-success

Again, women have more invested in a pregnancy, and thus have to be more selective about their mates. This was the case until humans developed monogamy as a cultural practice, where now even if a man was a more attractive mate, once paired off, he was basically off-limits. We've done away with this again, and now with birth control, women do not have to worry about pregnancy, which is a good thing, but let's not kid ourselves and say that men are the selective ones. This makes no sense from an evolutionary standpoint. This is merely wishful thinking from feminists that would like to blame men for their own loneliness.

This kind of generalized thinking probably signals to a potential date that she won't get enough of his attention. Females with warm, textured vaginas tend to be super clingy and are afraid to give it up to someone who is going to slam dunk them into the trash.

What is this shit?

The fuck

This is why we observe men turn down women all the time, and not the other way around. It's also why r9k is populated mainly by virgin females that can't get a bf.

The problem is convincing a decently attractive woman that his hard drive crammed full of arpeggio chiptunes makes him happy with himself. But yes, an incel needs to realize that there has to be something in it for them woman too, and a man can't give what he doesn't have (love for himself).

The fact you see much more men being turned down than women it is because how the social order is supposed to be, it is not widely socially acceptable to ask a man out as a woman, women notice when men dont want them and they back off, also another reason you will see men whining much more than women about being turned down is because most guys think they are entitled to fuck someone and this is why we have things like incels and MGTOW nowadays.

It's not enough to shower you need to change into clean underwear unless you and your SO both have herpes in which case you probably prefer not to wear underwear.

Again, you only acknowledged part of the post. Why is r9k populated by males and not females? Why is it that the older virgins we see are males and not females? After all, according to you, much more women should be ignored than men. It's not only that women would be turned down. These women should basically not exist to most men, but we don't see that. You're making shit up because that's the way you'd like it to be. It does not make any sense for men to be more selective than women. In every sexually dimorphic species, the females are the selective ones. This is no different for humans. I mean, unless you're willing to provide some citations. You've been given some evidence and you keep doing nothing but making up vague reasons for why you're right.

This is true, social media reinforces self-loathing more than it provides appropriate role modelling.

Pray tell, if these women exist, where are they? We should have a lot of virgin females in our society, then. Care to point them out?

"Evolutionary biology" espouses a theory about men not wanting another man's worn-out sloppy seconds. To be honest, not every man thinks that deeply.

Because 4chan is traditionally a male board and females dont feel welcome them. They are not rare there though, most just pretend to not be a male when posting. There are female only boards though but I wont share them here because they dont want the exposition
You are implying there arent older virgins that are female. They simply go their own way instead of making bullshit movements like MGTOW.
lol
It doesnt make sense for you because you are pulling everything in this conversation based on your own life and not the entire picture.
Your assumption is that females have it easy when they are judged for entirely different things. You will never be judged by the amount of partners you had or the amount of makeup you are wearing.

Do you have a genetically inherited disease? Do you take care of your health in genera?

Women with large breasts are awful, fat or skinny.

You don't have evidence, and you're a fucking retard.
Oh, yes, these hidden female virgins that just vanish like ninjas. Of course, they don't exist, but keep trying to make shit up.
No, it doesn't make any sense because men don't get pregnant, you stupid idiot.
Of course, men are judged by the partners they have. When you hear 40 year old virgin, you don't wonder about the sex of that virgin, and last I checked, women aren't made fun of for being virgins. Of course, this is precisely the kind of female you say exists, so I don't see how a woman who has never had a boyfriend can be judged for being a slut. Now you're contradicting yourself.

You've been given evidence that men are judged more harshly by women than women by men on their looks. You have not posted evidence to the contrary. Until you do, I will keep telling you to stop pulling shit out of your ass.

I will stop replying to you once you called me a retard, you dont want to discuss, you just want to prove you are right lol


They are usually ugly thats why nobody gives a shit about them

When are men gonna stop pretending they are interested in anything that is not a qt with a tight vagina

You have to meet a black/Latina girl in a black/Latino neighborhood who doesn't have issues with confused identity or self-esteem. Same for Asians.

Stop swimming in the McDonald's ball pit. Let someone besides your grandma cook you dinner.

I am discussing it, and I am also right. You're the one that doesn't want to acknowledge any points made to you. You just keep claiming the contrary without providing evidence, like a retard.

Well, most men judged to be too unattractive are not fat or ugly. They're average, as women consider 80% of men to be collectively unattractive.

We're doing a great job of pretending, since I don't see average-looking girls with intact virginities. Of course men like attractive women, but unlike women, we don't consider 80% of them to be unattractive. Again, you've been given evidence of this and you keep dismissing it, because you're a fucking retard.

Porn makes virgins of both sexes believe that they will fall in love after sex, females too. It's pathetic.

Most porn is just robotic fucking though.

Why would you think this?

That's not the problem with porn. Love after sex is a model some cultures follow more than the US and it works.

There's a lot of problems with porn, but that 'aint it.

Not telling you was part of the adventure. She was never going to tell you even if it would have been the path of least resistance. It sucks, chicks who say that they want a man in uniform but as soon as he loses his job she off chasing blue-collar workers.

You must be a guy.

Eating also releases other chemical in the body that women associate with maternal bonding.

I NEED LOVE
consumes another section of rainforest

Well when drug companies and health services exist to make a profit no shit are they gonna push some unnecessary shit

Unfortunately sometimes the female is 10 years old.

Do you not know how to quote someone? Or am I going crazy?

become an underwater welder

Top manipulation

...

not to poop on your stoop here user, but BMI in this context has questionable predictive validity. going off what you've said about the study, 'overweight' here includes anyone with more muscle than the average, more fat than the average, and more of both than the average, because it's purely a ratio of weight to height. it says little about one's actual body type.

Reminder that if you are ever trying to get a woman to sympathize with you for being lonely. DON'T predicate it on sex. Women don't have nearly as much testosterone, DHT, etc and the vast majority can go years without sex to no psychological effect. They just can't sympathize because they haven't lived it. MtF trans people do sympathize with it, as they are amazed at how much their sex drive is lowered after they transition.

So appeal to women based on being lonely and not having "a special someone". Make it sound romantic. After all you are lonely and you do want a special someone. You can even say that you've never had a girlfriend. 7/8 women won't help you out after you've said that, but 1/8 women will at least come and talk to you about it in a nice way.

women are repulsed by men who profess loneliness and neediness. it shows weakness and vulnerability, which are like female-repellent

If you are at the bottom of the barrel and nothing is working for you, might as well give

a shot

Also, try complaining about your inceldom in public and on Facebook. I mean you (not necessarily you) have nothing to lose! You are thinking about killing yourself most likely, so just tell people how you reel.

Why do we have to talk of women like they're an alien specie? Maybe they really are incompatible with any form of communism if they're dispassionate about the plights of men. I feel like most racism and other political ills will vanish when we introduced life-like sex dolls who can validate their buyer - just remove women entirely, they're unsympathetic, solipsistic parasites.

i have tried the "lonely guy" angle many times. women want men who don't need them

I'm not saying to tell women you want to hook up with that you are lonely, I'm just saying tell that to everyone except those people. You *will* find people that are going to want to help you out with a large enough social circle.

It's kind of like finding your first job. Employers fucking hate entry level people unless they have a social connection. Women fucking hate entry level men unless there's a social connection.
You can lie or find someone to set you up.

what if you have no social circle and don't want one?

But seriously, you need a social circle. It's vital.

i'm asocial

Revel in thy eternal solitude

Putting a name to it doesn't make it ok, this isn't SJW land.

Become social if you want a GF, you are male, and you aren't a celebrity or something. There isn't a hack around it.

There's a lot that can lead you to being asocial: bullying, social ostracization , sexual abuse etc

So you aren't a bad or evil person for ending up where you are now.

Just realize that you need to get out of your asocial or antisocial or whatever funk to achieve relationship goals. Or have someone help you, or whatever.

What if we can't enter already established social circles without either a domineering personality or a funny, quick witted one? Such personalities normally arise from you being inculcated in society already. Many people are averse to opening themselves to awkward loners.

Why is getting a woman a goal? Why are women elevated to such a lofty position in society that men need to jump through a plethora of proverbial hoops to get one? Are women inherently bourgeois? That they can sit there doing fucking nothing yet be rewarded for it?

Why can't a fucking woman ITT or anywhere on the internet answer these questions? Why do MEN have to do the answering for these cunts?

...

I agree with most of this image but all the ills presented still don't preclude women from answering themselves. Where are the women?

The reason so many men have these views of women is because women ACTIVELY go out of their way to distance themselves from low value men, thus they become an alien to those men. And we can only infer the motives of women by seeing their behavior from afar. All could be remedied if women simply opened a fucking dialogue.

there is nothing wrong with not wanting to have friends or a so-called "social life," which typically consists of abusing alcohol and drugs, casual sex with strangers, and wasting time at fashionable clubs. contemporary social interaction is shallow, meaningless, debased and part of the wider spectacle
this is the fundamental problem. if you don't meet this stupid and arbitrary standard, you don't get love. i shouldn't have to become something i'm not, in order to avoid dying alone

Having friends isn't a stupid or arbitrary standard

Past your schools years; yes, it is.

No one feels obliged to hang out with some stranger just because they feel lonely. Especially so if they're someone they have no childhood connection with. If you're not bringing something to the group that can outweigh the potential disturbance to its dynamic then they wont invite you out.

Unless you're content festering with other losers - here's a shocker; losers don't hang around with women. So you need the RIGHT social circle if you want a woman that isn't deformed or obese.

yes it is. what is wrong with preferring solitude? being around most other people causes me psychological distress and discomfort. does that make me less of a person, and less worthy?

Why do you want a gf then? You're satisfied with loneliness right? Get a hooker if you want sex

Having a girlfriend isn't the same as having a bunch of vapid cunts around you that provide nothing but cheap laughs. You satisfy an immediate carnal need with a girlfriend, you don't with "friends".

not wanting friends doesn't mean i want to be completely alone and have no relationships. i'm also borderline asexual, so sex isn't the issue

You're a retarded tumblrite, and deserve to be alone. No one wants to date a weirdo loner like you.

And there it is, sexual bourgeoisie visceral disdain for those beneath him. Soon we'll be too numerous for you to ignore, then we'll be coming for your harems.

If it wasn't for the thing between their legs, there'd be a price on their heads.

rofl. thanks for exposing your true prejudice

I don't understand you people

You're the one that refuses to do anything about your situation. It's pretty pathetic.


Lolno. My point is that if you do not want to make the minimal effort of talking to people, you will be alone. Nobody is going to issue you a gf. If you can't even make this concession, then you will never have a relationship with another human, because human relationships, especially romantic ones are give and take. This retard only wants to take.

hahahaha
because you won't. or can't

You'll understand enough when your brain spills forth from your impaled head, the revolution draws near.

And what do women "give"? Their cunt? Yet we must provide actual effort and labor in exchange?

And there is no need to understand you. You're a fucking retard that refuses to make the least effort. Kill yourself.

you have no idea what i've done, and you know nothing about my "situation." you just can't fathom the idea that someone might not enjoy flippant socialising, but still desire a meaningful connection with another individual
much like your limited intellect

you first, brainlet

Keep dreaming basement dweller. I'm a prole


You're the punchline here buddy. It's like you want shit off your ass but you refuse to fucking wipe and want the state to assign you a personal shit-wiper. You are pathetic.

Yeah, grade A boyfriend material in that post. This is why you deserve to be alone.

LOOL. Moron still believes in the just world fallacy.

Pick one.

Nobody implied that, and you aren't any kind of famous individual, nor will you be. So grow a personality and make the effort before you start bitching like a faggot.

What's your proposed solution? State assigned gfs?

a prole who despises fellow proles who don't share his personal social proclivities
classic. you gonna call him a neckbeard next? how about virgin?
you are cruel, hateful and irrational

No, but women have run amok and we've already established that they're not living under the same material conditions as men nor suffer mutual discontent with society. We can conclude that women must have a different base for them to experience a parallel reality to men. Women are not the same as men, and will only bring pernicious influences to any system we try to implement, we must treat them as the aliens they are and acknowledge their role as utility for man's mental welfare - through validation and sex.

Feels like men have actually.

Women aren't human.

Woman doesn't exist

people want mates

Try listening to the lyrics of 90% of any song. Or the words of 99% of any movie

Let me listen to capitalism about what I want, unlike what I criticize capital for.

if people didn't want mates there would be no people you retard

women are smart enough not to waste their time on such ridiculous questions

I understand that, but why do we portray women as being this trophy to be earned through an inordinate power imbalance on the woman's side - that can only be overcome by men putting in inordinate effort themselves or being exemplary through some other mean; Looks, wealth or status. The woman doesn't need to do ANYTHING to be desirable, she just has to be slim.

What I'm trying to articulate is that women seem to be this natural elite who expect things to happen because they DO happen. Men don't enjoy the same muh privileges.

Then they get beaten to death by husbands who don't get answers to their "ridiculous questions". Funny that.

Gosh user, you really think someone would do that? Just go on the media and construct narratives that support the goals of the gigantic corporations backing them?

if only they had you to save them

women don't have to ask questions like that because they are the object of desire. they are always the party in demand. men come to them; women don't have to go to men

Look, you're not even a fucking woman dude. This has been a huge waste of time because yet again, a man is talking in place of a woman. Where are these fucking women huh? If you heard a cunt talk candidly you'd see her views line directly up with mine - destroying your idealism that they're in anyway comparable with communism.

Compatible*

lol how would you know? it's not like you talk to any women. it must be really convenient for reality to line up with your prejudices so well

Have you heard women talk to their girlfriends when no men are around? You'd be shocked.

I'm far happier and comfortable with myself now that all I do is read books, read the news, argue about books and the news with my only friend (even more autistic than I am btw) and do bodyweight exercise than when I had lots of friends, did 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧interesting🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 things in 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧real life🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 and women would actually make eye contact with me. If dying of a heart attack at 60 is the price I have to pay for not being the kind of person I hate, so be it.
Sure all other things being equal, I'd be happier with a gf, but I'd also be happier with a billion dollars.
Fucking anime niggas out here trying to gain acceptance from people who think having their interests is equivalent to not having a personality at all. What the fuck is wrong with you?

You virgin neets don't know how good you've got it

This is talked about a lot. Basically gynocentricism.

Way back when, when resources were scarce and human tribes were small, female lives were objectively way more valuable than men for the sake of human survival.

That attitude may or may not be ingrained in our biology, but it's definitely survived generations of culture. Women and children first, you hear feminists argue it all the time. Yes it's a position that female lives are inherently more valuable.

It's pretty easy to argue against though. You just point out that women aren't at risk of being eliminated by some virus or something and therefore any invidividual woman or group of women no longer have this demi-god status because of their capability to produce children.

lol i'm super sure

As always pure ideology. Y'all know shit all.

have you ever… ever, for a single moment considered the possibility that what you want is not a girlfriend?

You're probably dissatisfied with your current relationships. Being all up in your gf's face is going to recreate the same problem.

Do you seek out "low value women"? Would you even give her the time of the day if she approached you?


user, I know that most parts of normie life are poisonous to people like us, but you're getting into fedora territory here. That's not all there is to socializing. Also, this "contemporary" qualifier is dangerous, because it gives you a feeling of vindication for being born in the wrong age or something. Every society had it's own "normielity" and its misfits. And speaking of which…
You're right, this is an unfair, even anti-humanistic demand largely related to ye olde human nature (inb4 muh spook). Sadly, it has always been part of the human experience, and will remain so until all humans join into a single collective worldmind. It's one of these facts of life everyone has to come to grips with. Well, the ones unlucky enough to be afflicted by it, at any rate.

Then, if I'm getting this straight, according to this board's concensus, I deserve my own loneliness and a revolution wouldn't either solve those problems (already knew that), nor even make the situation more bearable, or help me slightly in any way (what I was actually hoping for). Good to know that not even the few people that I thought would understand my plight, give a shit about me or my suffering. Becoming a leftist was a mistake. At least when I was a liberal, I had some delusion of hope.

No user, you don't. No one deserves it. Absolutely no one. But sadly, it's a fact of life that some people will end up that way, because is neither fair nor unfair. The very concept of "fairness" doesn't even apply here.

Of course, there's always fags here who claim their hearts are out for all suffering humankind but then go and shit on incels or even just social pariahs anyway. It's a vestige of socjus that really ought to be purged from the board like the socjus infestation they are.

Changing society's material conditions is difficult enough, changing its superstructure is an Herculean task. The revolution doesn't establish Utopia, it merely points us in its direction.

I'm sorry for your suffering user, I understand what you're going through. But a socialist revolution really has nothing on the really short term to help with this growing isolation and alienation problem. It's something that would take a while to change. Even if communist Utopia is one day reached, no revolutionary will live to see it. It's a work for generations.

What leftism could help you with is information on alienation, which is sorely lacking in this thread. I'll look for some screencaps to post later.

Houllebecq is a troll imo

Question; Why the fuck don't you lefty incels ever show yourself anywhere but this site?

I mean I know incel isn't a partisan thing IRL. But just in terms of online discussion you all are so cowardly. You let the "anti-incels" run the show everywhere except here on the left.

Because this is pretty much the only English-speaking lefty community that hasn't been taken over by SJWs.

why not just storm the SJW sites? You have nothing to lose anyway.

Well what would be the point? Incels aren't exactly an organized group in the first place, and if we raided one of their precious subreddits, tomorrow the entire American media would be shouting in one voice that incels are the newest political threat faced by America, an even more radical form of Nazism whose followers renounce sexual activity so they accumulate more "essence" in order to increase their strength and curbstomp bilesbian transmyn of colo(u)r with levels of prejudice that shouldn't even be possible.

Now that I typed that down, it does seem like a funny thing to try…

If you mean actually taking over one of their digs, I really don't know of any single instance in the history of the internet where that worked. I mean, internet communities shift their opinions around, sometimes ending up with wholly different demographics, but it takes place over years.

Only as long as the welfare state pays for single motherhood.

Please refrain from this cruelty.

She mocks the idea of sexually frustrated guys turning to fascism but to me it's perfectly logical. These guys have significantly less power than the women they approach, and the path of least resistance to more for a white guy would be fascism.
A return to classic patriarchy would get these guys laid, and the election of trump as laid bare the impotency of women as feminism as a political force.
Women better start coming up with an equitable way to solve this problem because its getting close to biting their ass.

*and feminism

We can go further… The resentment and rage that the left needs to motivate revolutionary activity is also subject to all the manipulations that capital is subject to.

absolutely NOTHING wrong with the instauration of matriarchy

like everything liberal, inequality is inevitable

liberalism is a disease

My Dad could hardly get laid during the height of the fucking baby boom.

My genes aren't that great as far as attracting women, so I fare worse during the economic slump,and 50 shades of grey fantasizing about sociopathic billionaires era.