This kills the class reductionist

If socialism/communism naturally does away with racism, woman-hating, etc. how come the former Soviet Bloc countries have completely reactionary social policies and are full of far-right Nazi scumfucks?

Why is Russia so chauvinist?

Why is Ukraine full of neo-Nazis?

Why is Hungary being lead by the Magyar Donald Trump?

Why is Slovakia so islamophobic to the point where they not only banned Muslim refugees but also took Islam off their recognized religions?

Why is Poland so generally right-wing?

Face it: class reductionism is a terrible principle and the anti-idpol crowd doesn't know what they're fucking talking about.

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=zARApBsNKr0
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Heroine
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/01/12.htm
theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/17/anger-as-chinese-media-claim-harassment-is-just-a-western-problem
twitter.com/SFWRedditVideos

Because of capitalism. Unemployment, horrible work times, low wages. job insecurity and shit needs a superstructure to be justified. In case of non-Russian countries, it's also Russophobia.

This shit was going on before the fall of the Soviet Bloc though. Every single case of "socialism" was really just nationalism under a red flag.

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What? USSR was pretty cool with women empowerment, antisemtism was a crime and every nationality had its own oblast.
Bad bait

Embarrassing, I hope you never talk to non-communists

Antisemitism was rampant in the USSR. Same with islamophobia. We flip a shit over France de-veiling Algerian women during colonialism yet the Soviet Union did the same to Muslim women in Central Asia and the Caucus.

Many here would say not real socialism, but this applies too
Sage in case this is idpol bait

…do we?

I like how you mention them being islamophobic but not the fact that every other communist government declared itself atheist and pushed hard against every major religion. Really fits the flag.

No we don’t.

Which was a good thing. All religion, especially Monotheistic religion is incompatible with our ideas. It must be stomped out, and destroyed.

Anarco-liberals leave. Pic related is you.

Islam can be revolutionary though. There have been plenty of Muslim anarchists, some of them anarchists who converted to Islam because of its libertarian values.

I wonder why?

Racism wouldn't have re-emerged under capitalism had socialism extinguished it.

What is Liberation Theology?

What is Islamic communism?

absolutely absurd

you need be better at this, drop this half ass idea and come up with better solutions
instead of pointing fingers at everything you dont like

It’s pic related.

Don't be a jewish nigger, and watch my youtube video.

youtube.com/watch?v=zARApBsNKr0

Except these are real movements.

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fuck off
Hoxha did nothing wrong

maybe, but still based on false and absord ideas, thus they are bound to fail

None of those things are inherent to Islam, dipshit.

but islam is the only faith with that shit in their books that practice those acts on a regular basis

Which is why I am shamelessly plugging it

Yeah but they have less political success the fucking unironicNazbol.

Most Muslim countries have communist parties. PFLP is the third biggest Palestinian party.

Just because a Muslim country has a communist party doesn’t make it Islamic Communist. Most Communists in the Muslim world are atheists. This includes PFLP.

Lad,

state propaganda forcing proles to work for low pay
see above
I do not think that hungarian prime minister was not spamming twitter with his infantile hoaxes, he openly uses state media for that.
good. Islam needs to disappear.
Poles are strange creatures. look at answer for first question

Any more questions, OP?

I do not think that hungarian prime minister was spamming twitter
fugg

Russian chauvinism was a thing even during the USSR days. There's a reason why most ethnic minorities in Russia hate Russians.

Well, read Kirsten Ghodsee
The Left Side of History is concise and gets to the point

I believe that even most russian hate russians.

what if the child consents though?

OP the causes are capitalists blaming different sects of proles to divide and conquer the working class and prevent them from organizing. Besides, even if capitalists/capitalism wasn't the cause, what're you going to do? Make it illegal to be racist? Invest in some sort of drugs that make it impossible for you to be racist? Send racists to re-education camps? You can't convince everyone, communism eliminates most problems but it's not going to magically make everything the human condition suffers from go away. You might mean well, but this whole shtick you're talking of REEKS of reddit. Please do not. There's no way to force someone not to be racist without serious invasions of their personal life and that shit is EXTREMELY unanarchist.

Damn Russians. They ruined Russia!

Women were treated like baby machines in USSR and got medals for it but some anti-idpol think the revolution will solve all hatred of women problems. If they care at all, because some think women should keep being baby machines and maids.

Fuck off MRA scum

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mother_Heroine

Are you fucking retarded though

Recognizing capitalism as the primary factor of oppression is in no way reductionist.

Yeah man we all think that this is just going to disappear overnight in places where transitions never completed and while dealing with a thousand other problems you totally got us.
Fuck off.

Good. Russophilla is a good thing and should be supported.
t American

How was this bad again? Just because a women has a large family doesn’t mean that she has no rights.

The point is, you can't just assume changing the economic system will gradually change other srouces of oppression as well.

The thing is you’re confusing racist sentiment with institutional racism. The former can’t be abolished and will probably exist forever. The Later can, was, and depending on your location is abolished.

Paying people to breed for the sake of the "motherland" sounds pretty fascist to me.

Under socialism population growth is generally desirable since more people means more production and innovation.

Let's pretend they prized those achievements because they love women and admire their reproductive capabilities and not because they were extremely natalist and wanted more workforce for the motherland.

In WW2 a lot of Russians died. They needed to regain the lost population. So no shit theUSSR did something like this. Also why shouldn’t mothers be given money for rasing children. It’s labor which is nessicary for socity’s survival.

Protip: Random White Hick living out 30 miles from any other living human who thinks that niggers are smelly and dumb isn't a form of oppression.

He reproduces oppression though.

Welp, it's time to get out before the entire thing burns down.

Muslims are comrades too.

Just because someone has kids doesn’t mean there kids will support the same ideology as there parents though.

Only Shia muslims. Sunnies WILL be gulaged,

Proofs please.

Why Shias? Most Palestinians are Sunni.

Son what does that even mean? Does he literally give birth to oppression? Does every kid born of asshat parents become an asshat? My parents are pretty conservative yet I fully back antiracism and shit. I just don't think it's possible to make meaningful inroads until class is abolished. You can make small victories changing hearts and minds but the system will always be exploited to oppress others. The system itself thus must be abolished. Fuck off back to reddit with this shit

Read Stalin
marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1931/01/12.htm

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Antifa is useful because it keeps fascists from organizing. 99% of the antifa haters on Holla Forums are just ex-GGfags who are still butthurt because they opposed Milo and the rest of his proto-fascist cabal. Get over gg. Milo deserved worse.

No one cares if some guy has racist thoughts or sentiments, what matters are the institutions and class structure that exists that allow ANYONE to have economic power and therefore systemic influence over someone else.

The bureaucratic dictatorships that ran the Warsaw Pact were pretty conservative, actually.

Antifascism has been getting coopted by Liberals.

The answer is to oppose all forms of Class Collaborationism and lay naked the material relations of Capitalism.

Does wishing on his death makes me a homophobe tho

Strawman.

Its more to do with the fact that "anti-fascism" is kind of a directionless concept in of itself as fascism is merely capitalism assuming its more direct and brutish form in reaction to crisis. It is an inevitable result of late or critical capitalism and there is not much you can do to prevent its organizing other then to tear down the capitalist structure before it is too late.

Honestly this kind of misses the point of materialism too.

We're not in the 30s any more. It is very naive to think that the new authoritarianism will come goosestepping in jackboots. Listen to the sniffman.

You can do this AND prevent fascism from organizing. It's not a mutually exclusive thing. Of course antifa is going to have anarcho-liberals. Liberals also have an interest in preventing fascism. However if the fascists aren't opposed they will literally kill us when they take over during the next major crisis of capitalism.

Good thing actual socialism doesn't give a shit about nonissues such as women's suffrage and "muh racism"

Anyone who has read Marx knows, it doesn't. That's not even remotely the point. Idpol is irrelevant in Marxism because the goal is solely to seize the means of production by the proletariat by the proletariat. Remember, no where does Marx say Stalin couldn't execute gays or have slavery as an industry and Marx even praised slavery. At the same time, the point is that people always fracture among class lines first, they care about their financial well being first and foremost before idpol. After those are taken care of, then they will focus on idpol. So the point is, it will go away, at first, then it will come back and need to be settled. People are equals and allies only until goals are met, then they look at new inequalities to complain about that proles are a different bunch. They are very brutal, they will go on ethnic Stalin-like purges, they will resort to mob violence to rid themselves of outsiders. Marx didn't say this was wrong either, it is the way of the communes to be successful. Everyone is to each their own commune across the world.

Also thats what I'm proposing. To fight against any identitarian cancer.

Imagine being this illiterate.

Nah I'd rather fight against fascism. Idpol is pretty easy to defeat with actual socialism. Fascism is a bit harder, especially when they are organized and have death squads running around.

Authoritarianism by itself isn't fascism, I'm more then aware at this point though that we'll probably enter some kind of far reaching silicon valley "with a human face" type capitalism before we hit any type of Holla Forums tier masturbation fantasy.

Except your nonsensical fight against "fascism" is allowing the actual fascism of Social Justice to achieve a stranglehold on leftism and American society.

"Social Justice" is just left neoliberal posturing. It is far from fascism.

It's a far more dangerous form of fascism than anti-liberal fascism. At least the later acknowledges that feminism and racial equality are hogwash. But with SJW infiltration they've come dangerously close to overtaking the left with this nonsense, distracting from the class struggle.

The idea that the anti-idpol people don't know what they are talking about is laughable. You claim to be for communism, but communism has literally nothing to do with idpol, period. It simply doesn't matter, it's like people are talking about what to have for dinner and you start injecting into the conversation about ufo tinfoiling, nothing to do with the subject at hand. The core will always be class struggle, it cannot be socialism or communism in any form otherwise. Go read a book.

Idpol is singlehandedly responsible for turning the Left into the vestigial stub that it is today. It corrupts any class organization with talk about muh progressive stacks or muh blood and soil. If you even dare to question it you are labeled a racist or a cuck. Its moralism meant to divide and obstruct.

No you have it backwards. They stole most of their social justice schtick from communists. Thus why it comes off as insincere when they do it, since it lacks a firm theoretical foundation.

Communism, as I said, has nothing to do with pointless social distractions. It is about increasing production and efficiency for the working class, not for effeminate bullshit

Hitler rose to power from the ashes of German communism.
The USSR tried hard to stomp out nationalistic twinges. It couldn't work forever.

Feisty Russian sluts have to be dealt with sometimes

In the lead-up to perestroika skinheads became decidedly anti-communist

Why is Hungary being lead by the Magyar Donald Trump?
Hungary had an anti-communist revolution and would rather trade economic mediocrity for political autonomy

Poland considers the Nazi Holocaust not as an attack on Jews but as an attack on the Polish people. Polish are traditionally Roman Catholic.

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Intersectionality is to illustrate the abuses of capitalism, but Marxists fail to show how capitalism is unique in perpetrating those abuses.

Nobody ever, ever made that claim you insufferable tard.

Yes, Milo probably deserved worse than buttloads of free publicity and a free higher ground that smashies handed him on a silver plate.

But a just world is a spook and people don't get what they deserve. What happened is simply what usually happens when one side knows what he's doing, and the other is a bunch of violent troglodytes.

the quashing of the 1918-19 revolution led directly to the rise of nazi party

Anyone who became radicalized by milo was always going to side with the reactionaries.

No it didn't. That's nazi revisionism. Stop reading Holla Forums infographs and pick up a book.

Anyone who seriously thinks capitalism causes racial and sexual bigotry needs to be put in some special needs system. Those will still exist under any socialist model and will have to be dealt independently of economic concerns.

Why do black flags make such fucking awful and abhorrently liberal posts?

are you seriously insinuating that the reactionary nature of post-soviet nations is due to the leninist ideal? are you FUCKING kidding me? do you intentionally decide to not interpret things materially or are you just a fucking idiot? i think i'm inclined to say both are happening in your INSIPID post. i really hope i'm getting trolled. i'm going to respond anyway, but i really hope you're just some asshole trolling me, because this post is really just too much.

"class reductionism" is a foreign category to anyone even somewhat familiar with marxist literature. it's as if you really subscribe to the idea that "duhhh marxism is wen ya look at da MONEY and not da race and da sex." honestly OP, what does "class" mean to you? are you really so embarrassingly postmodern that you believe that class is "one category of oppression out of many?" a fucking BASIC reading of marx shows this to be untrue; class is not a simple categorization, one of many, it is the Real of our social epoch; meaning that racial/gendered exploitations exist under the larger umbrella of capitalist exploitation. to say that "focusing on class is reductionist" is to say that we need to look at the effects of the capitalist regime rather than capitalism itself, a completely fucking absurd conclusion.

if you're positioning yourself as being against the old economist thesis of "base>superstructure," than congratulations, you've accepted the viewpoint of LITERALLY EVERY MEANINGFUL MARXIST, INCLUDING MARX HIM FUCKING SELF. anyone that is even tangentially familiar with marx's critique of capital can easily see that this dumbass base/superstructure divide is not the basis of marxist thought, and that it has only been understood as such because it's simple, and easy to regurgitate in order to present yourself as being a """marxist.""" OP, you're not attacking communism, you're attacking shitty interpretations of marx.

I want the liberals to leave.

Trends certainly emerge during troubled times, but that doesn't mean bigotry as a whole doesn't originate from another source, and you've yet to adress the the sexism point. There's no way you can claim capitalism supports traditional gender roles.

You mean aside from the one that Engels made over a fucking hundred years ago?

So they weren't really radicalized by Milo, were they? You smashies just catalyzed their self-organization. Good job. (Not that I'm supporting your orcs vs. people worldview, mind you. Just pointing out that even within it, you've fucked up.)

Also, the publicity is not about the fringes. It's about the population at large. And the population would never support violent assholes rioting against a speaker, as evidenced by the fact that it did not.

No, my dear liberal friend, they will not have to be dealt with, because in the absence of hierarchical power structure personal phobias and dislikes will be powerless and incapable of affecting anyone's life.
Unless, of course, some people would like to preserve a hierarchical structure within socialism in order to dictate what individual people do, say and think. In which case THEY will need to be dealt with.

Poland is the most fascistic country in Europe with the exception of Ukraine (which is literally ruled by Nazi militias.)

Racism will never be abolished under capitalism.

You have to focus on smashing capitalism first, because that is the only possible way to end racism and other forms of oppression/bigotry. Just as you said, you can have racism without capitalism, but you CANNOT have capitalism without racism.

Milo's politically indistinguishable from Trump and you faggots aren't trying to start a revolution yet, nor are you ready for one.

Fighting "fascism" without destroying capitalism, as antifa attempts, is a fool's errand that amounts to beating up politically irrelevant edgelords. If you really want to fight fascism, start shooting porkies and blowing up CIA offices.

The veil was never a public issue in France until the 1989 controversy regarding the wearing of the hijab in public schools. Most people don't know about the de-veiling ceremonies of the colonial era.

why not? are you an idealist?
sage because OP is either reddit or more likely Holla Forumsintelpro

Go back to reddit.
I'll make Hoxha look like a fucking jihadist.

Impying the state will be abolished under socialism.

tankies are embarrassing tbh.

There's no fundamental difference between a state and a company, ancap.

If A has the value of x how can -A have the value of -x?!

You're never going to abolish human tribalism. The only reason you think otherwise is because you sit at the top of the liberal pyramid where most of the worst tensions are muted and you can play pseudo-intellectual about the causes.

How does that even address the argument?

I have a dick and I like dick and I want him to die so you tell me.

It wasn't directed at you. Bit annoyed when I saw that. Anyway the point is it doesn't matter what you use to unite people or improve material condition the people won't change.

Sounds pretty homophobic better shoot you as well.

Then why not change people?

So the general arguments Im getting from this thread could be split into two parties.

1. The Anti-Fascist side and,
2. The Anti-IdPol or Anti-Liberal side

The Anti-Fascist make the argument that organizations that have an admittedly liberal majority are acceptable and necessary in the fight against Fascism.

The Anti-Liberal side as Im going to call it now for simplicity make the argument that a organization being co-opted by liberals to fight perceived threats of Fascism is counter-revolutionary on the basis that it aids the capitalist and divides workers.

Gays are the true homophobes.

Feel free to Oxycontin them up or genetically engineer them but I don't think everyone's going to accept being re-engineered for communism. Even before you get into the morals of is it our right to deliberately change ourselves that much and that permanently.

Familiarity breeds contempt.

Wait that means the "Race-Realist" only hate their own race.

I don't even necessarily agree with either the idea that racialism is imprinted on people or that genetic engineering is a way to "solve" it, it just strikes me that we most certainly could.

Only if we lived in a world with zero immigration and homogenous mono-cultures.

Didn't realize, this

Was meant for

You could but given the tensions I see in the modern world that completely abstract from material conditions gives me little hope that you'll overcome this with just better conditions. People don't hold illiberal ideas just because they haven't got a car an iphone, plenty of food and a great big fuck off house.

Because none of those places are socialist. Also all of Marxism is, by default, "class reductionist". This is like saying science is "material reductionist". Of course it is, because it's the one thing you can actually use to predict outcomes. Intersectionalism is cancer and you people will be shot as saboteurs when the time comes.

Cancer. Fuck off.

Oxymorons

That pic is fucking cancer

didn't we have just that before the 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧karltural marxists🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 took over and subverted the natural order and human nature? or what is the narrative up to these days

Liberals should explain how is possible to eliminate racism or bigotry from people mind. You want to control people thoughts? Isn't that a bit orwellian?

It's the same problem communists have of eliminating people's desire to acquire.

Communism doesn't require that, retard.

Communist don't want that you fucking liberal idiot.
Also you are literally justifing the human nature argument.
Anyone has that zizek clip were he say something like "liberal says dumb thing, enable and makes an argument for nazi ideas"?

Ukraine and Poland are the most fascist by far. Only places where more people say they're better off now than they were under communism.

Social justice types aren't facist. Facism hss a particular definition and characteristics. Sjws are on the other hand are totalitarian.

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EAT SHIT

Yes, humans are biologically predisposed to specfic sets of behaviour as we are. In particular tribalism which can be caused by factors such as dunbars number and kin selection. That doesnt neccessarily even have anything to do with racialism or ethnocentrism. Even anti-racists have their own tribes and so on. The whole question is whether we live under a deterministic system. I personally do not think so, but biology is still just as an important facet when considering the material conditions. As for gentically engineering people to become anti-racist and communist, you must have a limited imagination. Such technology would smash the paradigm you operate under. Genetic engineering would be more significant than the industrial revolution and would generate new theories and answers to the social problem.

Human nature is whatever a human does.
Humans do communism, therefore communism is human nature.

Proofs?

You also missed the point lel

Look I can understand if you don't like them, but that's no excuse to stoop to Holla Forums-tier levels of conspiracy.

ah yes, islamophobia, the gendarmerie of capitalism, am i right boys

theguardian.com/world/2017/oct/17/anger-as-chinese-media-claim-harassment-is-just-a-western-problem

Mautists BTFO.

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What undid years of progress under Mao?

Didnt. They simply in scoope of news. %%It is typical mistake that leftists did%%

Anything that Mao did has nothing to do with that article

If Mao successfully got rid of patriarchy, how come it would re-emerge so quickly after the transfer to revisionism?

They just carried that over.

I don't really know much or give a fuck about China or Mao, but I know that an article that describes the state of the PRC 41 years after Mao's death probably doesn't have anything useful to say about his the conditions during his leadership.

*about the conditions during his leadership

forgot to point out that calling a group of people autists is very probIematic and ableist

The USSR and Maoist China certainly had reactionary elements and class reductionism is definitely a thing, often in the form of workerism. For example, the portrayal of homosexuality by the likes of Maxim Gorsky as a 'bourgeois fascist disease' and its criminalisation under various Soviet republics until it was made illegal throughout the entire USSR in the 30s. All of this was done to protect homosexuality from corrupting the Soviet youth.

*prevent homosexuality from corrupting the Soviet youth.

Enlightenment thinkers weren't the only people to talk about Human nature, dum dum.
Also, the proof is in the pudding. Humans do communism, therefore it's in human nature.

Spooks are a hell of a drug.

That was used like a hat in the old days by women, its not religious.

Those are babushkas, not hijabs.

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Antisemitic myth.