CIA: Kim Jong Un isn't crazy

Yeah someone should. You look like you got some fine treads to drive yourself on over.

just because western media says a lot of dumb shit about them doesn't mean they're some bastion of democracy and socialism
youtube.com/watch?v=sBde7eTqwq0

Any source to back to that up? The DPRK is probably a lot more democratic than the west. Workplace democracy exists through the Taen Work System, councils exists on a neighborhood level up to the Supreme People's Assembly, candidates are nominated in mass meetings which aren't organized by the WPK. Candidates can run for a party or as independent, and are can be instantly recalled frequently. Contrary to popular belief, the elections themselves can we visited by international observers.
lalkar.org/article/2654/the-democratic-structure-of-the-dprk
Economic decision-making is based on the needs or the people, production is for use and goods are often distributed in the form of a gift economy, exploitation of man through man is abolished. I think it's a bold to claim to call a country despotic which forces its polticial elite to work in manual labor one day every month.

How bout the fact that a dictatorial hereditary monarchy is incompatible with democracy. Your blog isn't evidence of anything btw. Watch the documentary. The "elections" don't allow for anonymous voting. The fact that they literally export labor (labor which might as well be slave labor for the extremely low wages being received, all of which goes to the state) to countries like Russia for money among other obviously un-socialist practices is enough to convince me your claims are bullshit

holy shit, your babbling really makes you look bad

DPRK isn't a Monarchy, Kim Jong-Un got voted into all his offices. He was chosen the Surpeme People's Assembly, not by bloodline (both Kim Il-Sung and Kim Jong-Il had other sons as well) but through qualification and popularity he has amongst the population:
npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/08/30/217186480/defectors-think-most-north-koreans-approve-of-kim-jong-un
They actually support their government. Remember that the position of the Supreme Leader is more of a ceremonial one, tied to the military, the actual ruling body of the economy is the Comittee of the Supreme People's Assembly. Furthermore, Kim Jong-Un ran for his deputee position in the parliament in the Paektusan Constituency, and won overwhelmingly.

Your second statement is a blatant lie, elections are anonymous in the DPRK, watch videos about it. I'm attaching a Inter-Parliamentary Union document about the electoral process of the election to the Supreme People's Assembly that is describing it in detail, with numbers.
There are rumors about this, but it has yet to be proven that these people aren't convicts. In any case, this makes up such a marginal amount of the economy that it can be disregarded.

I'm sure everybody can decide for himself who is the moron here

socialistworld.net/index.php/slideshow/9425-north-korea-nuclear-stand-off-dangerous-escalation-of-washington-and-pyongyang-conflict-2
Reminder that the DPRK has offered multiple times to ends its nuclear program and militarization… for a quid pro quo from the United States that they also disarm and demilitarize around the Korean Peninsula. The United States has refused every time
The most notable examples of countries which agreed to demilitarize and end their nuclear programs without any quid pro quo from the United States are Iraq and Libya
Basically, Kim Jong Un isn't a moron

Wew lad
literal video footage of it
youtube.com/watch?v=awQDLoOnkdI

web.archive.org/web/20140309141428/http://kcna.co.jp/item/2014/201402/news04/20140204-10ee.html
You have yet to prove that a country that is based on an extremly cooperative society, under the heaviest sanctions in the world, which survived a famine in the 90s, fakes all elections at gunpoint despite the massive amount of the latter. There is no reason why they would do this. Every indication is that these elections are genuine, and the DPRK support the path their government follows. When you claim a positive, you are the one who has to provide evidence. Read the document that I attached in my other post.
This isn't a good source. All that can be concluded is that North Koreans worked in Russia six years ago. Not surprising considering the close historical relations between the two countries.

wew lad
Double wew lad

Are you okay?
As I mentioned before, their elections are actually open to international observers, as the other document proves. In the past some NGOs have been observing the elections but couldn't find a flaw yet still vote a smearing piece of propaganda about it along the lines of "we couldn't find actual manipulation but surely they are all somehow coerced into voting this way? R-right guys??". Please provide actual evidence or at least explain your reasoning as you why you think it's even possible to hold your population at gunpoint in such a precarious situation. I reckon a western state would have degenerated into fascism or a military dictatorship ready.
youtu.be/o7k9egJ04hk
Video of the local elections
leftistcritic.wordpress.com/2017/03/08/elections-in-the-socialist-motherland-democracy-in-the-dprk/
Longer article on elections in the DPRK from a leftist perspective
I'm not believing anything that comes out of this cunts mouth, the video shows lots of conjecture, to outsource penal labor to Russia is pretty smart actually. I mean, every single claim that has been made about North Korea in the mass media has turned out to be a 100% fabrication upon closer investigation. Even supposedly neutral, academic sources like 38North is compromised by South Korean think tanks, American foreign policy organizations and the such. A nice article describing how the smear against North Korea works is this one:
rhizzone.net/articles/songbullshit/

Like?
wew lad
To my recollection didn't have anything to do with punishment. The idea that selling your citizens as labor to other countries is somehow socialist is hilarious, but not surprising coming from a revisionist who thinks Russian imperialism is a good thing.

do you honestly think its just a coincidence that the Kim dynasty wins every single election

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I know that there were plenty of organizations that were international observers in the 90s. I won't be able to find the source right now, since I'm on a train, but the other document I posted proves this. You have yet to bring up an actual argument, or a piece that complains directly about certain practices during the election process. All you do is complain about "blogs" while posting literal Vice videos. Have you actually read any of these blogs? The rhizzone article is carefully researched.
Let's assume the western representation of this is 100% (unlikely), it's a marginal part of their economy, it doesn't matter, they are grasping for every straw considering how hard the sanctions are on them, have you looked into the sanctions? Do you believe they should reject every opportunity of economic relation out of ideolgocial purity in such a situation? Turns out you are more Juche than them. If you want to make a proper materialist analysis of North Korea, you can't pretend imperialism and economic improvisation caused by the latter doesn't exist. It doesn't change the fact they are still a socialist, cooperative economy. Again, it's hilarious to believe that they would achieve economic growth and rising living conditions while being at gunpoint, no they are the most cooperative economy in the world.

Both Kim Jong-Il and Kim Jong-Un have been groomed ideologically to fulfill their role for years, they are popular amongst the population, so why the fuck is it so inconceivable for you that this is what the people want? I'm not necessarily big on their leader worship either, but it's their culture and not for me to judge, and it's not relevant for a materialist analysis. Elections in socialist countries are a different democratic process. They are more of a fail-safe. When a candidate gets rebuked in the voting booth, it already shows deficits in the democratic system, the decisive part is the nomination of a candidate through the masses and worker organizations. Only in a bourgeois democracy some liberal parties present you a choice which is clearly made by capital (see donors in US primaries for example), not by the people, and you can choose for the lesser evil. Low voter turnout and protest voters stain the liberal elections as undemocratic, while in socialism, the people choose the candidate in active participatory mass meetings both locally and nationally, and the election itself is a fail-safe (which the western media portrays as "rubber-stamp" elections). I recommend FinBols video about Soviet election system, elections in the DPRK happen similarly, the only difference is that the USSR was a one party state, while the DPRK has a united national front, similar to the GDR.

My Gott, show me one of the western hot takes about the DPRK that isn't completely fabricated bullshit. Go ahead. You sound like a Hilldawg liberal on Facebook.

I'm not tankie but anyone who doesn't think this deletion isn't suspicious is a moron or a liar. DPRK debates aside, the "badness" or NK has fuck all to do with the US's motives/likelihood for intervention and this is just another piece in a long puzzle of neocon screeching

North Korea is interesting example. They have own software and electronics. They have space program, nuclear weaponry. With proper support, and leadership. it could be a great country.

For a while I thought they were talking about Trump.

Preferably with proper ideological initiative too.

Article Is Live Again
edition.cnn.com/2017/10/05/politics/cia-kim-jong-un-intelligence-profile/index.html

Trash argument by any standard tbh.

I love it when tankposters bring the facts. I don't know if this user is right about DPRK but it's obvious that he's waaaayy more knowledgeable on the topic than anyone else in this thread.

implying your stupid elections aren't a sham. it's a democracy all right, exactly like in the west

shut up. you being unnecessarily paranoid and called out for it does not make anyone else something that they're not. the article is back up anyway.

the article is back up
what are you even on about

That neocons want war with either NK or Iran and are working hard to get it. I didn't realize I was speaking in riddles

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wew lad. Any piece that I bring up is going to be dismissed as "western propaganda" because in your mind everything negative ever said about NK is part of some grand conspiracy, and therefor the only reliable sources are those that already confirm this narrative you've constructed for yourself, even if they're only blogposts that nobody else will take seriously as proof of anything.
Wrong revisionist. It matters a lot because it helps to demonstrate that there is really nothing socialist about the regime. If you're selling your citizens labor to the bourgeois of other nations then you can no longer pretend to be socialist in any way. You've essentially commodified them and you are acting not as a DotP but as a glorified staffing agency. There is nothing democratic about mandatory voting that gives you a single canditates name to vote for, and a separate voting area if you want to cross their name out and vote against them. This is not at all secret and impartial, and it's the principle reason why you have results like 100% "approval". The idea that literally nobody would want to vote for someone else is absurd in the extreme. FinBol is a hack who doesn't bother to accurately quote the sources he pretends to utilize in his videos.

you are way too easily impressed

The difference between me and you is that I actually have looked into all these claims western media makes about North Korea, even the more sincere, academic ones, and came to the conclusion that they are all fucking wrong. This isn't based on conspiracy, it's based on individual judgement through basic source checking. The "blogs" you keep complaining about quote sources. Especially the rhizzone article you refused to read is entertaining as it systematically deconstructs western manufactering of consent beautifully. What you are doing is a liberal appeal to journalistic authority, surely someone like Rachel Maddow wouldn't lie to us?! When it comes to the DPRK, it is extremly hard to get legitimate information. That goes both for the mainstream media as well as for blogs - in other words, when it comes to the DPRK, blogs and media outlets are on the same playing ground. I've provided several sources of evidence that weren't blogs but books like docdroid.net/9oceFLp/ellen-brun-jacques-hersch-socialist-korea-a-case-study-in-the-strategy-of-economic-development-monthly-review-press-1976.pdf which are written by actual observers of the systems the DPRK runs on, to which everybody always falls silent about. When you start looking at things through some sort of Matrix where you wait like a vulture for cracks to happen within the resiliance of the Korean people, you are no better than the neoliberals which are pushing this shit.
Anti-materialist analysis. The DPRK is in a situation where they are the most sanctioned country in the world, If there was anything anti-marxist, it would be to put ideological purity atop of the welfare of the country. DPRK is still trying to survive. Sanction include:
- prohibitions of imports from the DPRK
- prohibition of all foreign aid and agricultural sales to the DPRK
- limits on the exports of goods and services
- denial of main DPRK trade exports
- prohibiting any loan or funding through any financial institutions
- ban on food and medicine exports of the DPRK
- prohibitions of any commercial banking transactions
- a ban on everything that could be used by the military
What we are dealing here is late stage imperialism carried out by the most powerful nations on the planet. Considering that any capitalist country would collapse under such pressure, you should realize how the whole Songun policy came about: Building of socialism has to be insofar suspended until the DPRK attains nuclear weapons (explaining the collapse of central planning in the mid-90s). The latter has been almost completed, as a result we see Kim Jong-Uns announced return to the byungjin policy (Marxist-Leninist central planning as developed by Kim Il-Sung, source) in the 7th party congress of the WKP, which means: Reachqusition of control over the economy instead of Songun (military first), focus on producing consumer goods for the people and development of a more cooperative socialist society including computerized planning. All these points confirm that the DPRK has not only preserved its socialist system, it is comitted to develop socialism even further.
That's not true at all, I already explained how the nomination process of the candidates in mass meetings is more important than the actual ballot casting. Independent candidates can run and the event is not monitored by the WKP. You still have the option do reject the chosen nominee during the actual vote by crossing it's name out. This is more democratic than elections in the US, where you have "superdelegates" and donors dictating the candidate. Furthermore, candidates in the DPRK have to come out of worker organizations (trade unions, cooperatives, women's organisations, etc) which makes it very well a DotP.

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Because the communist left has many other shining examples of revolutionary movements to go on about, right?

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Fuck off neocon shill

It should also be noted that I'm not completely uncritical towards the DPRK, I do think their leader worship and their formalism gets a bit whacky at times. But I see this as specific expressions of a) Korean culture and b) the permanent isolationist siege situation they find themselves in.

Good job incorporating all liberal buzzwords in one sentence

show me the point in that post where i shilled for war prick?

buzzword itself has become a buzzword
its a pseudo-monarch
its not socialist
its basically ethno-nationalist tier nationalism
and is totalitarian to the max

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honestly you're fucking stupid if that's what you got out of that post

If you don't care about the prevailing media narrative and how it's gearing up for war then you're a gigantic rube

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You are incredibly naive if you can't see the connecting threads. If it's not NK it'll be Iran, and the only thing stopping it in both is their ability to not kowtow to the US govt like past regimes did. That's literally the topic of the OP article that you couldn't manage to skim

The pro-NK sources in those blog posts are literally quoted from the NK government. Not a reliable third party source. You take whatever the NK government tells you at face value because you want to believe that they're are this socialist paradise despite whatever evidence exists to the contrary. It's a classic case of confirmation bias. The problem with "outside observation" is that everything outsiders are exposed to within the country is carefully controlled and curated by the state. Time and time again this has proven to be true, sowing doubt on anything being shown. The documentary I showed you is a prime example of this practice.
Your apologism for their blatantly unsocialist practices is anti-materialist. Sanctions don't change the character of these practices. You're just trying to justify them using the sanctions as an excuse.
Yeah, by going into a separate booth which blatantly shows your rejection. Nothing anonymous about that. Don't hide blatantly undemocratic practices behind US whataboutism

i dont care
it would help destabilize the U.S even more
and i reall dont give a fuck about the islamist goverment of iran

I guess you didn't read them, because only some do.
You havn't presented any besides a video from Vice.
It's ridicolous to assume they would organize a show for a single tourist and create Potemkin villages for him. Since you like videos so much, there is this YouTuber FunForLouis. He's gone to the DPRK and wanted to give a skateboard to a North Korean boy. It was rejected and he explained to him how they have a cooperate society where the concept of private property is not really dominating, and such a gadget that isn't common in North Korea would have to be collectively shared. This indicates a definite dedication to socialism.
They do. They are trying to survive. Your demand for ideological purity is similar to the Leftcom mantra of "just abolish the law of value. Like, just abolish it dude". I gave you some background as to how the North Korean dedication to socialism can be observed. Sanctions are indeed an "excuse", because, well, they are an attempt to actually fucking starve them out? Don't fucking act as if imperialism doesn't exist or doesn't have an impact. If your special snowflake revolution would actually happen, they would suffer the same fate.
You actually cross them out. Is your source Wikipedia? Because I've read that unsourced claim on Wikipedia before and nowhere else
Logical fallacy, a statement so moralistic as yours can only hold value in comparison to some standard

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Give me an example of a non-NK source then. I linked you to an entire investigative documentary m8, your refusal to watch it confirms what I've been saying about you. I'm not going to pretend that they're socialist because they're under sanctions bud. This is an example of many capitalist policies that NK has and sanctions don't suddenly transform these policies into socialist ones. There's a separate booth you go into to cross them out m8, and the source is from a South Korean analysis. Maybe the claim is false, but we can't actually ever be sure because the NK government closely monitors and controls what outside observers can and can't see, and this evidenced not just by the documentary I linked to you (The Red Chapel) but other places to. Under the Sun is another documentary which demonstrates this very well. Pointing out your whataboutism isn't a logical fallacy btw.

Pure pottery

Yeah it's probably only capitalists who are going to die if the US goes to war with Iran or the DPRK, right? Fucking kill yourself.

Revolutionary defeatism you faggots. Read Lenin

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What?

What part of that don't you understand? The part about Iran being a bourgeois theocracy, or DPRK being defacto monarchy?

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Of course not, Kim is a freaking genius.

The part about either of those things having any bearing on wanting to start a war you dingus