Eastern Europeans said to me socialism was shit

If my fellow Eastern Europeans immigrants say don't trust socialists, why should I Holla Forums? They have experienced horror of socialism, while inane first world socialists have not.

Other urls found in this thread:

pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2010/04/28/hungary-better-off-under-communism/
balkanalysis.com/romania/2011/12/27/in-romania-opinion-polls-show-nostalgia-for-communism/
spiegel.de/international/germany/homesick-for-a-dictatorship-majority-of-eastern-germans-feel-life-better-under-communism-a-634122.html
balkaninsight.com/en/article/for-simon-poll-serbians-unsure-who-runs-their-country
gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx
politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=145614
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundestagswahl_2017#Zweitstimmenanteil_der_Parteien_nach_Wahlkreisen
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

They are right tbh, become an anarchist.

Every Bulgarian and Russian I meet loves Socialism and the old Combloc.

You prpb talked to a Balt or a Pole.

Because what they call socialism is not what (most of us) want to establish.

He lied to you.

Mostly Poles and Balts tbh

🤔🤔🤔
Die Linke is the reformed Socialist Unity Party of Germany

The third largest party in Czechia is the Communist Party of Bohemia and Moravia: this from a nation who had soviet tanks drive up Prague in '68.

A remarkable 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. In no other Central or Eastern European country surveyed did so many believe that economic life is worse now than during the communist era. This is the result of almost universal displeasure with the economy. Fully 94% describe the country's economy as bad, the highest level of economic discontent in the hard hit region of Central and Eastern Europe. Just 46% of Hungarians approve of their country's switch from a state-controlled economy to a market economy; 42% disapprove of the move away from communism. The public is even more negative toward Hungary's integration into Europe; 71% say their country has been weakened by the process
pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2010/04/28/hungary-better-off-under-communism/

The most incredible result was registered in a July 2010 IRES (Romanian Institute for Evaluation and Strategy) poll, according to which 41% of the respondents would have voted for Ceausescu, had he run for the position of president. And 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism, while only 23% attested that their life was worse then. Some 68% declared that communism was a good idea, just one that had been poorly applied.
balkanalysis.com/romania/2011/12/27/in-romania-opinion-polls-show-nostalgia-for-communism/


Glorification of the German Democratic Republic is on the rise two decades after the Berlin Wall fell. Young people and the better off are among those rebuffing criticism of East Germany as an "illegitimate state." In a new poll, more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR.
spiegel.de/international/germany/homesick-for-a-dictatorship-majority-of-eastern-germans-feel-life-better-under-communism-a-634122.html


Roughly 28 percent of Czechs say they were better off under the Communist regime, according to a poll conducted by the polling institute SC&C and released Sunday.
Only 23 percent said they had a better life now.
More goods in shops, open borders and better cultural offer are considered the biggest successes of the system that was installed after 1989.
On the other hand, the voucher privatisation, the worsening of human relations and work of the civil service are its biggest flaws, most Czechs said.


A poll shows that as many as 81 per cent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -"during the time of socialism".
The survey focused on the respondents' views on the transition "from socialism to capitalism", and a clear majority said they trusted social institutions the most during the rule of Yugoslav communist president Josip Broz Tito.
The standard of living during Tito's rule from the Second World War to the 1980s was also assessed as best, whereas the Milosevic decade of the 1990s, and the subsequent decade since the fall of his regime are seen as "more or less the same".
45 percent said they trusted social institutions most under communism with 23 percent chosing the 2001-2003 period when Zoran Djinđic was prime minister. Only 19 per cent selected present-day institutions.
balkaninsight.com/en/article/for-simon-poll-serbians-unsure-who-runs-their-country

Reflecting back on the breakup of the Soviet Union that happened 22 years ago next week, residents in seven out of 11 countries that were part of the union are more likely to believe its collapse harmed their countries than benefited them. Only Azerbaijanis, Kazakhstanis, and Turkmens are more likely to see benefit than harm from the breakup. Georgians are divided.
gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx

A remarkable 72% of Hungarians say that most people in their country are actually worse off today economically than they were under communism. Only 8% say most people in Hungary are better off, and 16% say things are about the same. In no other Central or Eastern European country surveyed did so many believe that economic life is worse now than during the communist era. This is the result of almost universal displeasure with the economy. Fully 94% describe the country's economy as bad, the highest level of economic discontent in the hard hit region of Central and Eastern Europe. Just 46% of Hungarians approve of their country's switch from a state-controlled economy to a market economy; 42% disapprove of the move away from communism. The public is even more negative toward Hungary's integration into Europe; 71% say their country has been weakened by the process
pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2010/04/28/hungary-better-off-under-communism/

The most incredible result was registered in a July 2010 IRES (Romanian Institute for Evaluation and Strategy) poll, according to which 41% of the respondents would have voted for Ceausescu, had he run for the position of president. And 63% of the survey participants said their life was better during communism, while only 23% attested that their life was worse then. Some 68% declared that communism was a good idea, just one that had been poorly applied.
balkanalysis.com/romania/2011/12/27/in-romania-opinion-polls-show-nostalgia-for-communism/

Glorification of the German Democratic Republic is on the rise two decades after the Berlin Wall fell. Young people and the better off are among those rebuffing criticism of East Germany as an "illegitimate state." In a new poll, more than half of former eastern Germans defend the GDR.
spiegel.de/international/germany/homesick-for-a-dictatorship-majority-of-eastern-germans-feel-life-better-under-communism-a-634122.html

Roughly 28 percent of Czechs say they were better off under the Communist regime, according to a poll conducted by the polling institute SC&C and released Sunday.
Only 23 percent said they had a better life now.
More goods in shops, open borders and better cultural offer are considered the biggest successes of the system that was installed after 1989.
On the other hand, the voucher privatisation, the worsening of human relations and work of the civil service are its biggest flaws, most Czechs said.
politicsforum.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=145614

A poll shows that as many as 81 per cent of Serbians believe they lived best in the former Yugoslavia -"during the time of socialism".
The survey focused on the respondents' views on the transition "from socialism to capitalism", and a clear majority said they trusted social institutions the most during the rule of Yugoslav communist president Josip Broz Tito.
The standard of living during Tito's rule from the Second World War to the 1980s was also assessed as best, whereas the Milosevic decade of the 1990s, and the subsequent decade since the fall of his regime are seen as "more or less the same".
45 percent said they trusted social institutions most under communism with 23 percent chosing the 2001-2003 period when Zoran Djinđic was prime minister. Only 19 per cent selected present-day institutions.
balkaninsight.com/en/article/for-simon-poll-serbians-unsure-who-runs-their-country

Reflecting back on the breakup of the Soviet Union that happened 22 years ago next week, residents in seven out of 11 countries that were part of the union are more likely to believe its collapse harmed their countries than benefited them. Only Azerbaijanis, Kazakhstanis, and Turkmens are more likely to see benefit than harm from the breakup. Georgians are divided.
gallup.com/poll/166538/former-soviet-countries-harm-breakup.aspx

You shouldn't. You can't think logically and will only whore yourself out for Yous. Can't imagine who is going to sit down and correct you.

why is Saarland purple?

Ah yes, the socialism where government does things.

Look. I meet a lot of eastern european and spend a lot time there. There is a natural bond with me and slavs, probably for my drinking habits.
That said, I've yet to meet one who talked bad about the URSS. I met fucking ukranians that miss the ol' days

Estonian here, and that's not true; most people who actually lived under soviet rule, including what my own family and those from my social circle have told (I don't mean those born in 80's but those at least born in 70's and below) will paint a story with both pros and cons, when asked honestly. Cons they will mostly say is heavy censorship, lack of entertainment, long breadlines, poor work ethics (such as drinking on the clock), 2 year conscription of males to distant parts of USSR and ban on travelling to the west to meet with their emigrant extended family. Pros they mention are such like more equal wealth distribution, lower cost of living, guaranteed employment, guaranteed housing and golden era for cinema due to soviet government generous subsidies.

All of the above applies on life in soviet union between 70's-80's, not stalinism period.

Of course our MSM is different though, it will use every opportunity it could to bash life under USSR rule as absolute agony, and praises capitalism and USA in particular as much as they can. This is not only true for estonia or balts/poles but eastern europe in particular.

The peak of human intelligence has been surpassed.

It's a rust belt like post industrial wasteland

Watch out we got a tankie-ass over here

Didnt east germany vote for the right wing party this past elections?

here's the one from the last elections
de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bundestagswahl_2017#Zweitstimmenanteil_der_Parteien_nach_Wahlkreisen

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Yes, as they're the poor part of the country and turn to the 'outsider' candidate in hopes it will change their situation. The point wasn't to illustrate that East-Germans are diehard leftists, but to show that even after the collapse of the DDR a substantial part of the East German population retained a sufficiently positive opinion of the former ruling party to just vote for them anyway.

A good amount of slavniggers miss the old times though.

Pole here, confirmed. Stupid burgers think babies were hunted and eaten on the streets or something, remember 600000000 starved people under commies!. Most ordinary people were better off than now. Neocolonisation in full effect, to the point where they literally replace us with immigrants. That supposed to be our capitalist future?. Fuck capitalism and feudalism.

I work with a couple Tea Party Patriots and they told me horror stories about Obama's America and how he ruined the economy, promoted race hatred, loved killing babies, was a Muslim and an atheist, hated white people and was determined to impose Communism on America.

Long story short, stop thinking by anecdotes. You can find someone from every place on earth with every dumbass opinion about every place on earth. Do some research and use your head.

Don't agree with this one, but otherwise spot on, fellow eastern yurobro

The USSR was probably better than current capitalism, but that doesn't mean it's good enough. It came with shitloads of problems, mostly due to contradictions between their theory and praxis, and ultimately it fell apart. The people who are nostalgic for it should learn from what it succeeded at and failed at and try to do better if they want to try something similar again.

I live in a capitalist nation
i don't like capitalism
therefore capitalism btfo.

It means you should listen to people with a more nuanced opinion of those countries (so, not MLs)

This is always a nice platitude for people to spout whenever this sort of subject comes up, but such comments are always utterly devoid of any actual content. Generically proclaiming that one should look at both sides of the issue doesn't tell me anything interesting or new.

Well I'm not nostalgic for the USSR so I can't personally be arsed to try to salvage the good bits.
Not my point tbh.
Maybe it should still be said though given how many LARPers talk like they want the USSR to come back just how it was.

it really depends on the country itself really, in some countries the communists didnt implement things properly but the main issue today is anti-russian propaganda from the western MSM shoehorned in Eastern Europe dictating everything related to Russia as negative, for example you have finnish people saying life under Russian Empire is shit despite it was the Russian Empire that gave Finland its culture and identity (Sweden kept them as slaves and didnt even allow them to use their mother language or practice their customs)

TL;DR Poles,Baltics and neo-nazi romanians/bulgarians will cry socialism is shit because of heavy influence from western MSM and stormfront honeypot

Then don't be a stalinist.

...

>being this much a tankieshit that your only reply is to result to ad hominem so you could continue to live in your muh radical marxist revolutionary party torture chamber

I am inclined to believe you had an encounter with a Butthurt Belt expatriate.

He's right tho, you're a balt. See the post you were replying to

STOP BEING RETARDED, WESTERNERS
LIKE, RIGHT NOW
and read my original reply again, I named both good and bad about USSR

Calm down friend. I didn't say anything about being a good or bad leftist and liking the USSR. It's simply that Russians are more fond of the USSR for obvious reasons, and, for example a real encounter my friend had, the Czech would publicly call out Russians for ruining their country.

What was your original post anyway? I was replying to the OP.

Not the point. The point is that you're talking about anecdotes, from one of the more Anti-Soviet countries. You can get an anecdote to prove literally anything. You can even make one up. Arguing anecdotes is pointless, which is what the post you were responding to shows

Ok mate, you seem to understand, and what you say makes sense, I just hate the term "butthurt belt" so much.
Original post I made was


Literally in any case whatsoever, it's OK to post anecdotal experiences on Holla Forums, from burgers talking about burgerland's faulty healthcare system, from people here attending to left-wing organizations and being met with idpol even up to people here praising the life standards of NK because someone they knew once flew there, but as somebody who have had family members live most of their lives under soviet union, I suddenly can't bring up anecdotal examples, because it makes you butthurt that soviet union was good with the bad, not only good? Yeah, fuck that. Fuck you to oblivion. Fuck you back and forth, okay? FUCK YOU FOREVER. What the hell, you are going to trust a bunch of stats from sample-size-god-knows-what surveys that show people liked life under SU, or, I don't know, A FUCKING ANECDOTAL EXPERIENCE from people who admited they had a fucking blast living during SU? That's all well and good you do that buddy, I'm happy for you, just don't downsize my own talking points and examples when I do the same. This shit pisses me off and you need to stop doing that. This is no better than a Holla Forumsyp bringing up testimonies straight from Goebbels HQ to prove to me that life under nazi germany was wonderful, and I am sure if you work hard enough, you'll find a flawless fucking testimony or a study to prove to me that life under Pol "le lose them glasses xDD" Pot was roses and butterflies.

The only one using the term butthurt belt here is you, fam. Seriously, chill. No one here but retarded tankies is taking anecdotes at face value. The point is that you're supposed to form your own opinion through your own research, not accept the testimony of some random Russian or Balt. Using an anecdote to counter an anecdote is stupid regardless of the circumstance

how does one deal with this?

...

...

ask your friend whether he knows why they executed his grandad.

Imagine this scenario

I know well-researched people when I see one. I've read 1000-page book on stalinism myself, not to mention countless personal experiences, articles, numbers and even seen economic outputs and characteristics to describe economic realities of each SU premier rule, and I still wouldn't say I'm an expert on "how life was like under SU", but I damn well know how much gray areas and factors there are to Soviet Union. Not what they spoke in their pamphlets, but what SU was like in practice.


Well, family on my mother's side was treated generously under SU rule. My grandmother was a card-carrying member of the communist party and ran several canteens and restaurants which became businesses when SU collapsed. Still doesn't change my opinion on SU as a whole. My approach is to tell your estonian friend that in practice, SU had shitloads of corruption and being a totalitarian state, the punishments were harsh for activities against the state, but what really matters deep down is not the system as a whole, but actions individual people took who worked under the system. Actions of one officer of the system do not correspond to actions of every officer or official serving the system. Despite it being a totalitarian state, SU was disorganized and corrupt enough to allow individuals serving the system to vary measures they take to "stabilize situations".

red fascist

I'm not a fucking tankie, fam, read my posts. All I've been saying in this thread is that anecdotes FROM EITHER SIDE are entirely useless and unreliable. Stop being a faggot

I was talking about more than just anecdotes, and cited several ways one could base their personal research on. What does your mind accept as concrete evidence when it comes to personal research? Read the entire post before you reply.

Its not a matter of agreement, its already a reality many eastern european countries have already begun the process of being replaced with immigrants from third world for the simple reason that they are a source of cheap labour. That is the reality of modern capitalism.

Very little. If you form your opinion based on any single source, no matter how "concrete" you're a goddamn idiot. Statistics (not surveys) and numbers are sometimes reliable, but can be fudged. Somebody saying something - an account, letter, analysis - is never reliable, because those sources are always biased in some way and they may have a thousand and one reasons for saying what they say. They might not actually know that much about the subject. You have to look at different sources, compare them, and understand why it is that they say what they say. At the very least you should know about different sides' takes on events and see which of them you feel is most reliable and makes the most sense. That's true for every historical subject.
Anecdotes are at the very bottom of the list. They're just as unreliable as accounts but you don't even have the benefit of knowing who said it. It could just as well have been made up.

Dude are you serious? Most eastern european countries are 99% white, and they are a cheap labor force themselves, with shit low wages in most eastern euro countries. Even besides that, the automatisation process incoming will make the concept of "cheap labor force" redundant before the "great replacement" will ever happen.

Don't wanna be confrontational, but you are believing in delusions. Hate EU for being undemocratic, corrupt, contributing in neoconservative conquests in MENA region, shit refugee management, cracking down on unions, etc? Fine. EU has not been perfect on many fronts. But blaming EU for implementing a Kalergi plan is Holla Forums-tier.

shitpost flag

This is a good process, I respect that.
Now read the first dozen replies of this very thread and tell me that I'm wrong to assume that Holla Forums doesn't bring up anecdotes as evidence

Yeah its so annoying how anyone who has experienced socialism thinks its terrible.

Im convinced everyone from Eastern Europe is borgoise porky scum.(Hey Holla Forums)

Not posted in this thread, but why are you being such a complete autist and stopping people having a conversation like this is the Oxford Debate Society?

The first post is literally an anecdote, fam. Get a grip

BECAUSE PROBLEM EMERGED WHEN I POSTED MY ANECDOTAL EXAMPLES SUMMARIZED TO PAINT PROS AND CONS OF LIFE UNDER SU

I never claimed to be an expert, but I will personally make sure that every single fucking thread to bring up relationship between SU and Eastern Europe will forever stay clean of "only listen to peoples of countries that were shitholes before SU, shitholes during SU and shitholes after SU for anecdotal examples since their point of reference is all over the place, but never listen to anecdotal experiences of balts or poles who actually had shit together before SU came along" dishonest tankie bullshit, probably coming from some scrawny nerd in a western country who has never even see a khruschevka in real life.

It was poland's golden age

weak golden age you describe being cucked by Moscow the entire time tbh

Always makes me kek seeing old maps of Germany.

He probably deserved it tbh. Reminds me of those Cubans in Florida who keep going on about the evils of Castro because their ancestors were supporters of the US puppet regime who fled after the people overthrew them.

Nationalist romanticists please leave.

Do you really expect anyone to provide a nuanced answer on a fucking shitpost? Everyone is gonna respond either with another shitpost or just an anecdote or jpeg that says the opposite of OP. And then they leave. You've been sperging out this entire thread. Take a chill pill

yeah having fascist/authoritarian governments really speaks to "having shit together"

Being an anarchist =/= blindly accepting every single bad thing said about socialist states

that is entirety of western history before 20th century, and I wouldn't rule SU and it's satelite states on the "not authoritarian" list


to you it's merely a shitpost, because you don't care about eastern europe at all. To you, emotional connection to this entire region of 300 million people only resorts to memes. Easy for you to say that people should just shut up and post Stalin memes when some of the people in Eastern Europe have family members dead by direct orders from Stalin's acolytes. I've been spending time to get any one of you smartasses to say anything substantial about this entire topic, and I've yet to find a single person besides posting memes or copypasting articles.

For the millionth time now, it's OK to shitpost or think positively of SU, but it's not okay to go tankie when pointed out a key element to knowing why some eastern europeans did not have a blast during SU and you guys are still acting immature and blaming me for "ruining your fun" or whatever.

a playground for aristocrats getting cucked by every other european power which can afford a bribe wasn't a golden age

If they are a cheap labour force themselves and they emigrate elsewhere well others immigrate there is that not a process of being replaced? This matches the anecdotes and personal accounts of some Eastern Europeans I have heard.

Its obvious that old colonialism was destroyed by the industrial revolution… The previous poster said "Neocolonisation in full effect, to the point where they literally replace us with immigrants" this makes sense in terms of the "neocolonialism" that is occurring. I don't think that other poster said anything about the kalergi plan or anuddah shoah so perhaps you are overreacting.

are you mad at the historical inevitabilities of this world? I have a feeling in my heart that one day you are going to be hugely disappoint when you find out that soviets were capable of doing things that make your insides crawl all the way in your stomach


Listen m8 I don't like the concept of economic migration one bit, neither in theory nor in practice, but I think countries like Germany, US, France, UK and Italy struggle with this so much more than eastern europe, mainly because it's almost impossible for an economic migrant to even decide to want to prefer living in eastern europe over western europe. I mean, imagine you are a villager in war-torn MENA country. Wouldn't it make rational sense to migrate to a safer environment for your family? There is nothing sinister going on, they just want a normal life, just like any of us. Too many of them coming here will destabilize the society, sure, but I don't see too many of them coming to eastern side of europe at all. If anything, it's us, eastern euros, who are emigrating en masse to richer countries.

No, it's a shitpost. Period. OP was some Holla Forumsack faggot who fucked off after making a thread we have seen a million times before. Quit being a sperg. If you care so much make a thread

not an argument faggot

tell him his gramps should have thought long and hard before hoarding all that fuckin grain

link me to that thread and I'll leave, if not, I'll stick around for a while more


I hope you get raped by the flagpole of SU flag one day, dipshit

bruh you best not be talkin shit about feudalism

If international jewry was removed it should be a different story, in my opinion, ill take whatever -socialism/communism/anarchism

Does /leftypol share the same feeling ?

call them faggots next time they start bitching lol

international jewry is capitalism.

THIS BUT UNIRONICALLY

Counterpoint: Eastern Europeans never do anything right, be it socialism or criticizing socialism.

ever since the second half of this decade this statement has been false.

This

international jewry is the Holla Forums kosher speak for capitalism, so yeah pretty much

Guys, guys, he's a centrist stop disagreeing with him. You basically already agree with half of what's he's saying. What does 1/2 round to? 1. You agree with everything he is saying. Case. Closed.