Gun Control

Jimmy Dore is /ourguy/! He will bring the revolu-
"We need gun control right now."


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someone really like to suck his jew dick on here.

I post this in part because this is barely an issue here. Dore is one of those people lots of Holla Forums likes (I can't wait to see Wolff's response). On twitter this shit was really bad. Lots of people who were mistaken for genuine leftists voluntarily outed themselves over the shooting as red liberals and started fighting with lefties over the issue of guns. Please remember not to get too friendly with libs because they will sell you down the river the moment they feel a shift in the winds.

Read a fucking book you underage fag

Are you just being a pedant or are you saying that gun control is good? Either way you talk like a fag and your shit's all retarded. Environmental crisis poses a more immediate threat to capitalism than the falling rate of profit, because capital already has methods to ameliorate the latter but little to no preventative measures for the former, and that's not even considering the unpredictable effects of a changing climate that we don't even understand yet, This hurricane season is already a tangible effect of climate change the west has to face, saying nothing of Asian and Pacific regions where the effects have been felt for years.

you are a dumb poster

You sound like a guy who read one book and it went to his head.

The weird thing about Jimmy saying this though is that most of his rhetoric IS revolutionary and broadly anti-authoritarian. He even uses the term bootlicker to refer to people who defend cops. I don't understand why he isn't applying his anti-authoritarianism to his position on guns.

Too much time around the TYT folks probably. California bias too.

It makes me sad to think that comrade Jimmy 'Arm the Poor' Dore doesn't appreciate the value and utility of an armed working class.

In my experience people who have transitioned politically tend to carry baggage from their old beliefs, and it's usually the stuff that's supported mainly by emotion and partisan tribalism. Guns are probably the biggest example for ex-liberal leftists. Same with race for ex-Holla Forums leftists.

On twitter there was a distinctly regional bias on the gun issue. It was mostly Europeans and Australians who took up the noguns stance. America is large enough that its regions are pretty separate culturally, and the "blue states" tend to be very anti-gun compared to "red states" who border on gun fetishism.

But what about the people who live in places that are actually dangerous?

Because that has been working so well in America, as opposed to places where actual uprising take place that also happen to have gun regulations?

What uprisings are you referring to? Legitimately curious.

Hunting rifles and pistols will not be the salvation of the proletariat, especially not in the first world.

Communists should fight for the fundamental right of the proletariat to arms, but that doesn't mean we have to be retarded NRA activists that want to hand out machine guns and grenades like candy in preparation for some childish Red Dawn fantasy.

It's illegal to buy machine guns and grenades since forever. Don't make shit up. It already enough of a nightmare to get a fully automatic rifle that almost no one owns one.

I was being hyperbolic to show how insane the NRA is. These are people who literally think background checks are indistinct from banning guns altogether. There's no spectrum to them, it's all the same thing.


if any country needs guns banned it's america you are just too dumb to be trusted with them

America has the most guns and yet is also the most classcucked nation on Earth. Rather than a revolution it's just led to more innocent proles dying.

We are still converting him.

Anarcho-liberals strike yet again, demanding for the radical disarmament of working class.

It would take an even larger police/surveillance state to confiscate and maintain a ban on the hundreds of millions of guns in the US. That's not beneficial to an organized left. Additionally, the majority of American gun culture comes from working class rural folk who are already alienated by 'urban liberals'. Essentially, there's no way to unite with them if they view 'the left' as the ones that take their culture away. Attempting to would likely bring out the RWDS crowd though, which might make for an interesting cultural shift.

Your point about the fash using them to protect the state is spot on though - but when hasn't that been the case?

So then why is Gnomesky anti-gun? AFAIK he's been an anarchist since forever. Moral faggotry?

Chomsky has a ton of liberal baggage and fwiw he has admitted himself he isn't a very good anarchist.

So much for the violent left.

He's just hiding his power level r-retards

Well the major take among the "anti-gun left" as they seem to be positioning themselves as is that we need to "demilitarize" everyone, i.e take guns away from civilians as well as the state.

Serious question: how would this work in practice?

It wouldn't.

Literally every country that passes down gun control legislation doesn't have cops kicking down on your doors, they usually implement programs to give subsidies by giving up your weapons voluntarily. The more weapons you give up the more you receive. That + requiring permits and shit to carry guns. If you don't give up your gun and something happens, that will be used against you to increase your penalty, that's all.

To limited extent it would work out like in Iceland for example, where the military protection is provided by foreign state with minimal amount of guns in hands of the police as possible.

It's hard to imagine a situation where that would work out to any reasonable degree. Attempting to disarm the population is going to breed some serious discontent among the gun-owning populace. In all likelihood the police would be ramping up their weapons and armor supplies out of a somewhat justified fear of being blasted by 12g cut shells the next time they knocked on BillyBob's front door.

The world's primer arms manufacturer (America) isn't going to disarm its law enforcement to any degree. To believe otherwise would be incredibly foolish.

I literally have no idea. A major comeback of asking "how would you do this" is "lol these people think capitalism can fall but we can't demilitarize the police force/military", but seriously I don't know how they think they can use the framework of the US government to effect this when its so obviously dominated by corporate and military interests who certainly don't want to see their guns taken away, and would provide ample roadblocks to this. Congress can't even repeal Obamacare, and the GOP has been rambling on about that for 9 years.

agreed buddy, its certainly not a bad thought but unless its reasonably actionable to use the suggestion as an effect neuter to the pro-gun argument is really disingenuous and, honestly, so liberal

every time

It's impossible to overstate the stupidity of the "demilitarize everyone" position re: the USA.

Putting yourself in a database is equivalent to a ban if you're a political extremist.

yeah its just incredibly dubious, like its one thing to say "its hard to topple capitalism with violent revolution", which is true, it would be hard and maybe impossible, but saying "oh lets just demilitarize everyone" is the exact same thing as "I'll take it down from the inside"

Was Bakunin right?

It's worse than that. In a revolution you are explicitly recognizing that you plan to upend society. Reforms like these would also necessitate total restructuring of the global economy if they were carried out. The US's fuckhuge military is what makes imperialism possible, along with global trade networks in general and the whole petroleum market. If you take away the military, even incrementally, the entire system falls apart, but the proponents of demilitarization completely ignore the way that different parts of the system interact with each other.

i actually haven't read bakunin so you're gonna have to give me some help haha

couldn't have said it better

I guess for me the difference between anti-capitalism and pacifism is that the former has been widely theorized and put into practice, while pacifism is much more nebulous on both fronts. I wish I knew of some coherent pacifist theory or practice though because the idea fascinates me.

you realize even Exxon Mobil supports climate change laws right?

"Climate change laws" is not going to solve the problem. Companies will support laws that are in their interests, e.g. laws that hurt their competition with regulations that make it difficult to operate below a certain scale. The kinds of laws being suggested right now are all too mild to do anything like stopping the process. All they would do (if they passed) is ameliorate it. Sea levels are still going to rise. Ocean acidity is still going to increase. Weather patterns are still going to change. A lot of it is going to be unpredictable and even the stuff we anticipate (like mass migration from flooded or too-hot regions) we are not equipped to handle in the current system.

How naive can you be?

after years of suppressing the cutting edge climate science they were doing?

remind me again, what do you anarkiddies say about Zizek?



Now there's money in taxing carbon emissions, so they want a cut.

What we should be most worried about is peak oil. It will probably be the first thing to destroy the capitalist economic system. We've already gone through half of the world's oil, and shortages are projected to occur within our lifetime.

That's rich coming from a rose.

look at the other thread on here, he is clearly making a lot of progress fast

Holla Forums what's wrong with gun control IF

Ha! Suck a fat one gun lovers!

The most fundamental problem with gun control in my opinion is that it's quickly becoming a fool's errand in an age where 3D printers are becoming commonplace.


Because literally the only other alternative is to say "killing the piggies is always self defense, propaganda of the deed now!" which will piss literally everyone off.

This guy presupposes liberals and time only came into existance after Trump became President.

It's utopian.

2 things that will never happen

clown fiesta: the country.

Send him some Black Panther info so he gets educated on WHY gun control was developed in the first place.

It's a sight to behold.

Does he actually read anything sent to him though?

Any form of gun control is oppression against the proletariat.

If we outlaw guns in America then only rich people and cops will have guns

I have yet to see a rich person gun down masses of clubbers.

It literally just happened

Have you been living under a rock?

This has nothing to do with the police, DRUMPF or muh glorious socialist revolution. Gun control is needed so assholes that like to mass murder people have a harder time amassing the amount of weapons they usually have. Of course the potential mass murderer can still obtain guns on the black market, but this also applies for LARPing revolutionaries (what, you think the zapatistas or other guerrilla groups care if their weapons are legal or not?).

no control is needed. every time you touch you get shocked.


define gun control. If it's something else than a mental health check made by a local elected commissar then i don't support it. calling for disarment of police and military is the ost utopian retarded liberal shit ever heard.

Honestly my main concern is protecting myself from people like this…

Because honestly when it comes down to it the cops can't be trusted not to act on his side, so people need to be willing and able to organize their own defence.

You think that idiot would've gotten those guns if the price was inflated due to being available only through the black market?

You are giving the right too much credit. A handgun is enough to put a rightist in ER or the grave anyway.

Psych test, mandatory training, license has to be renewed every few years, less retailers (certainly not fucking Walmart), more rigorous background checks for anything other than handguns.

And how the fuck do you think the police are going to respond if they see a leftist shooting a rightwinger?

like narcotics, right? totally out of the price range of the common man. not to mention that criminals already get most of their guns through the "black market"
administered by whom? psychologists? who would guarantee their credibility and impartiality?
moronic. guns are easier to use than computers. the included instruction manual is more than enough to become proficient in their use and handling
aka you must receive permission from the state. fuck off
aka you must receive permission from the state and pay a bunch of fees. fuck off
you are aware that the majority of gun crime is committed with guns that were obtained ILLEGALLY, right? you are proposing that it be made less convenient for criminals to buy guns that they already don't buy
hahahaha. handguns are the type of gun MOST USED in gun crimes, and you're saying they should be regulated less than other types? now you're not even being logical. let me guess, you heard the news talk about the big, bad scary ar-15s and "assault weapons" and now you're scared of the "big black guns"

just stop posting. you have no clue what you're talking about, and your proposals boil down to "strengthen the police state." 0/10

We have pretty much this in my country and the result is only richs or middle class have access to guns. Because license and training cost money, and the prices are insaly high due to the customer's profil or taxes on firearms (not sure if not both). Black market is expensive and not everybody has the balls to risk jail for it. So no in a capitalist society better have no gun control because it will always backfire at us. The commissar example was for a leftist society.
irrelevant the guy was a millionnaire. Any attempt for gun control can be bypass by money and the gubermint can always set up stay behind operation in order to arm reactionnaries and it will be to late to react. You can't look for a gun and training when shit already hit the fan.

Then why the would you need any gun in the first place? I was assuming you were scared of the right winger ambushing you. Either way even if the police is present, if the Nazi points at you with a gun your best bet for survival is still shooting the fucker. You do need weapons, just not weapons capable of murdering multitudes.


Handguns don't have the capacity to hurt 500+ people, you imbecile.

If your plan is to have your dreamed revolution you are not going to use legal channels to arm yourself anyways. This guy was mentally I'll and planned his attack and had the money to buy the guns, but if that was going to happen anyways I wish he would've paid and struggled more due to regulations to do so. Also, guns aren't drugs. People get the money to get drugs in any way they can because they become addicted to drugs. People only become addicted to guns in 'murika because how fucking prevalent they are.

>>>Holla Forums go back

you mean like cars and buses?
go back to reddit, pussy

My dude if you ban firearms black market will be even more crippled by snitches. Also the guy was a millionnaire he would have it anyway. The only ones it will hurt are proles.

Handguns can shoot more than 500 times without breaking.

All historical change has been through revolution. Read history.

I’m glad that Vermont, despite being blue is pro gun.

Buy (or make) semi-automatics.

The police and military will NEVER disarm if there’s capitalism. Also socialism requires a violent revolution to be fully implemented. If you try to get socialism without a revolution you’ll end up like Venezuela.


So no guns for commies like me. :(

For the revolution

most revolutions start with looting some armories

Which are guarded. Also in order to properly fight you nee training.