How do we convince liberals?


is what they yell. Yet without the power to defend ourselves and communities, we give up our leverage against those who would seek to harm us. Serious discussion, how do we promote gun ownership to the moderate anti-gun liberals? How do we get them to see the advantage of arms in a power and class struggle?

Liberals don't even recognise class struggle, so… you know.

Liberals don't care about class struggle. They want the system to keep its current fundamentals. You will never convince liberals to be pro-gun because it goes against the foundation of their beliefs, that is, that civilization entails a monopoly on violence (the state) making peace possible for everyone else. They don't want to have power over violence because they just don't want to have to engage with violence at all. They want to offload that responsibility to the state so they don't even have to think about it.

You are more likely to convince conservatives/reactionaries of the importance of class struggle than you are to convince liberals of the importance of class struggle and guns.

Why should we give up our guns when the police are becoming more and more openly violent and militarized at the same time?

Why the fuck do retards on /leftypo/ always reduce politics to "convincing people" in the internet arguments instead of appealing to the economic self-interest of wage labouring people?

This is true. I grew up in a conservative American town. A lot of conservatives enjoy the thought of embodying an American Revolutionary Minuteman, the underclass taking up arms against an oppressive state. That appeal is lost to liberals.

"appealing to the economic self-interest of wage labouring people" is a fancy way of saying "convince"

The police were militarized under Obama too, and Trump isn't going to just decide to stop doing it because you whined loud enough.

The way to convice liberals is to turn them into socialist before you convince them guns are good. Because liberals don’t want a revolution, they want the statues quo.

Liberals know about those advantages which is precisely why they don't want workers to own guns. Pic related is proof positive that gun control and other attempts at thwarting civilian militias only ends badly for the working class.

What I mean that the strategy of pandering to the political groups(liberals) rather than the social ones(wage labourers) is a wrong way to tackle the problem. After all "an anti-gun liberal" is often a person living in a cozy environment free of things that could otherwise justify ownership of means of self-defense, so why would you care about such a tard?

couldnt be bothered to use editing software but this unironically

This is so racist, "ourselves and communities" what are you a skinhead? Don't even pull that shit saying you speak for the 'entire lower socioeconomic status' because then you're just using blacks like a shield. Fucking bigot.



I think that's about right. There's a sort of awareness people need to have of the realities of the state violence and wealth inequality before they would have a reason to take up arms towards remedying that end. After all if everything is going well for someone they might not have a lot of incentive to think too hard about changing the systems which govern their life in a way that could see their way of life disrupted.

Good thing climate disasters (from hurricanes and floods to agricultural disruptions), shrinking energy resource supply, and the mass migrations of humanity that those things will create on top of an economic system dependent on perpetual growth that can't exist at its present scale without cheap energy and regional stability will result in a continual global economic decline, which may prove to be an enlightening experience to the realities of inequality to the currently comfortable first worlder.

Fuck off, Holla Forums.

With reeducation camps.

Amuses me how all the Twitter liberals here like to bang on about how well read they are (as a proxy for intelligence) then can't even tell which way a swastika is supposed to go.

Part of the joke lad.

One reason why I'm opposed to gun control: several years ago my best friend was jumped on the street. He pulled out his pocket knife and brandished it, the crazy bad guy didn't give a fuck and punched him. So my friend stabbed him.

What happened? … 10 years in prison for manslaughter.
A lawyer told me later that he would have been better off shooting his assailant than using a knife, brass knuckles, etc etc.

I dont have a problem with guns, in a vaccuum, but in the USA most guns are in the hands of slavering drones who love the NRA (an establishment-approved "safe" rebellion that you can slap on a bumper sticker) and would probably start rounding people up if told to by, say, Trump or someone like him. It's kind of frightening when you think about, they think they need their guns to "fight tyranny" but the tyrants already own them completely. There's no way to explain this to them, either.
So I guess I hate all the guns in my country for complicated reasons.

problem is the nra actually does protect gun rights, even if it's for business reasons. without the nra and its power, more retarded gun laws like the awb probably would have made it through over the years

so yes they're assholes, but they help keep the obsessed antigun assholes at bay. in this environment i'd rather have them than not

Am I the only one who has lost so much faith in the American left after seeing the typical unnuanced social media/DSA response to this shooting. We have "socialists" arguing for disarming the working class because of the individual actions of a single rich sociopath. The takes are driving me nuts.

Should the far left and far right unite to teach the liberals a thing or two about bearing arms?

My point is that the NRA and similar 2nd Amendment lovers never use their guns to fight tyranny, and in fact they will all be very dangerous if things go badly, because they will gladly kill to defend the establishment while considering themselves rebellious heroes.

i totally agree, but any gun law that infringes on rightists will also infringe on us. so it's sort of a catch 22

It's driving me crazy too. Not all of them are jumping on the anti-gun bandwagon, but most I follow seem to including whoever runs the Democratic Cops of America Veteran twitter. This shit is so anti-socialist.

Gun control never. Fuck off liberals.


The problem with capitalism is not the exploitation of labor. Capitalism requires the exploitation of labor, but that's not the problem with capitalism; that would be inefficient production due to producers giving a shit about "luxury goods", engineers not being able to build off of each others' works, the rush to offload costs on the environment, unemployment and social unemployment, shit like that. A moral framing of communist ideology produces a broken communist system. Marx talks about the need for parts of the worker's surplus value to be taken from them (that is, exploitation) in Critique of the Gotha Programme to provide for insurance/investment/administration/charity; if our critique of capitalism focuses on the morality of how exploitation is evil and workers should be gratified how do we expect them to turn around and devote those four parts to society?

You can't, on this matter, is it the conservatives who are our comrades.

The fascist are our penultimate enemy comrade. Not even liberals are fascist tier. Some AnCaps and Libetarians might be acceptable though.

Yeah but you’re forgetting that Anarchist find that to be exploration as well.

Far Right Reactionary coming in here to say this is true.
Libshits would react to Caesar's assassination with:
Sure they'll screech that someone should've killed Hitler as a baby, as logically inconsistent as that is, but they'll stand by as the country falls into tyranny and do fucking nothing; it reminds me of how the news was bitching about the tea-party coming to rallies with open carry and saying how "scary" and "reminiscent of lynchings" it was when the video they used as an example had a fucking black guy carrying a gun.