Class disgust

I am a poor student of electrical engineering from a poor family of a locksmith/plumber and supermarket worker. I worked at bakeries, supermarkets, car wash and cleaning jobs. I didnt read all of the leftist works but I read a few major ones, and basically here is how I understand it generally:
At some point in the future, our production is going to become greater than our needs. I think Marx was the one who mentioned exactly this, productive forces, I think he called them this, are going to eclipse the needs at one point where there will be enough for everyone, and we can then finally get rid of money and class as concepts.
And here is where the title of the thread kicks in.
Working with other working class people, I have developed a class disgust. If these people somehow truly seized control and managed these jobs where I worked so far, things would go to hell.

Allow me to elaborate. People who do not study technology intimately (as in doing equations and testing their understanding and measuring and comparing results) think that there are some immortal wizards somewhere who 'do technology', and this is why it constantly increases. This is my main problem with leftism (that is based on the working class). Leftist utopia happens because of increased productive force, and productive forces magically increase just because. But this doesnt happen just because, in fact the opposite is true, entropy is the rule, flames go out, things rust, decompose, break down, etc. Barbarians who lived in the dark ages probably thought Roman ruins were built by gods or something.
If the working class (that I have met so far) seized the workplace, it would go to hell because most of them swear, come to work boozed up/high, is generally stupid, unclean, lazy and so on, basically the working class is not what drives the productive forces up.
Neither are bosses, dont get me wrong, I hate the bosses, I worked with this insanely cute chick at the supermarket, we shared a shift for 8 hours, she was the meaning of my life, life was joy, we hit it off pretty well, I found out the boss was fondling her, and he fired her after she told him to fuck off, he made a story she was stealing from the place and now she cant get a job in any other market, exploitation is definitely happening, I was full of rage with a gun and gasoline one day in front of his house, found out he had kids that day, so I wrote a letter to his wife instead, bastard lost his kids in a divorce.

Anyway enough of that. Basically, most of the working class and also most of the bosses are both scum. Both classes in my opinion either have no effect or have negative effect on the productive force of society.

This brings me to my final conclusion: I think there is a third class, class of technologically literate people who basically contribute vastly to the productive forces of society. The engineers mostly, but also mathematicians, physicists, you know, the whole crew that makes the lightbulb shine when you press the button, or makes the clean water show up. And these guys have no problem with the profit motive, they do well in the market, in the private sector, in all the countries, in all politics, languages, their skills are useful to all parties.
Most of the bosses are muh privileged oppressive net negatives on the productive force, tho some are generally productive and smart and not oppressing anyone. Working class and manual labor are not holy, even tho some are oppressed and chained by society, you cant deny some are plain fucking retarded, lazy, unproductive and dont deserve even what they have already. Things get done thanks to mechanization these days, and majority of working class is overrated by the left.

Resources are physically limited as of now; it is impossible to upbring everyone. Right wing knows this, but they want to get rid of too many people, and they are led by superstition. The left (that I am familiar with) wants to feed a thousand people with one bread and compassion, but we cant eat compassion.

I think there needs to be a new movement, a movement that can actually increase the productive force. Small percent of society is a large percent of productive force. Engineers and hard scientists are dominating all of the labor done, and business world too. Mechanization and hard science (the one with mathematics in it) seem to contribute 99% of the production, but they do not receive 99% of the resources, nor are they 99% of the lawmakers/political leaders.

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These are the professional proletariat user, you're caught in the liberal mindset of lower, middle, upper class, when these people don't own the means of production, so are proletariat. Remember that there is more than just bourgeoisie and proletariat, but also lumpenproletariat and petit-bourgeoisie (although in this case it doesn't apply)
You're a cool guy, user. Do you still talk to the cute chick?

I would also like to mention two story tall tractors, that sow, harvest, fertilize and basically do everything more efficiently than the rural workers did, navigated by gps, without any actual humans.
I would also like to mention "lights out" urban factories, factories with automated "arms" preprogrammed to do their work, lights out production also doesnt use any workers, hence the name, and they too are more cost efficient than the unskilled, uneducated working class factory workers.
I would also like to mention driverless cars, I hear the first delivery of wood by truck was successful across half of Canada by one of these, these too are more cost efficient than the working class.

Basically, I think that utopia Marx promised can be achieved, in a way he promised, but only trough people with engineering backgrounds, because only they actually increase the productive forces in society.

The rest vary from no effect to actually decreasing them (parasites), some knowingly and for profit, but some others also through inability and incompetence.
Both need to be removed. Not just one. Hunger disposes of you in one same way regardless of your intentions, it is not important if one is an exploiter or incompetent unproductive manual laborer (unproductive comparatively to a highly skilled, highly educated engineer for example), both need to stop occupying resources they are not worthy of.

I think it is in the interest of all, to get rid of majority of both the burgies and the proles.

Working class people behave the way they do because their situation is shitty. If they were in control and actually kept what they earned they would behave very differently.

That is some pure ideology friendo. Productive forces increase because of innovation. Once people figure out new methods for doing things they tend to stick around. We can mostly ignore entropy because we have a fuckhuge ball of nuclear fire blasting us with energy at all times (some of which got stored in the earth over billions of years).

Sounds like your main problem is to do with personal taste more than anything tbh.
So? They're the ones who are producing. It doesn't matter how high you drive "productive forces" without people producing.

You seem to have a tenuous grasp on what exploitation is in the Marxist sense.

Literally muh STEM meme. The regular blue-collar workers who assemble the lightbulbs, lay the power lines, etc. are just as essential.

These guys do so well (which is not true after porky pushed STEM so hard to flood the job market) because porky wants them for the arms race of increasing efficiency. No matter how efficient production is, you still need some basic labor at the low levels, but in order to manage the logistics and engineering you need lots of expensive training and you want the best performance so you bribe them.

Pure fucking memes. The first world throws away as much food as it eats, and we're not even producing as much as we could if we wanted to.

Oh. Well I live in a country where the left is basically pandering to a voting block of everyone poor basically.

This is how I see the left. Especially where I live. They pander to a whole bunch of people who are simply put worthless. And they exclude a tiny bit of actually productive rich.

Man, I am frustrated because I feel like politics is in the hands of the unproductive, doesnt matter if its the unproductive rich or unproductive poor. I feel like the productives need to take over, for the benefit of all. But majority of these productives are simply put useful and successful, and above politics.

They go into lumpenproles and never get caught, they are humble and dont care about the surplus they make in the private sector, or they never had the opportunity to improve themselves but figured out a way to live a happy life with a low income and dont give a shit.

Yes I imagined this response, respond to too.

Well the party doesn't sound so bad. Are they so bad you wouldn't join them and try and do your part to get them to focus on other wage workers? You didn't tell me about the girl.

No the assembly line slaves are totally useless and are easily replaceable by machines. Enjoy LARPing as a farmer in the wasteland while we build FALC, faggot.

By this logic, once we have AI that can engineer robots for us, we should let the engineers starve. All labor will eventually become obsolete. That's the point. We want to live in a world where socially necessary labor time is as low as possible. The problem is that because of capitalism we tie people's ability to survive to their ability to serve the profits of the capitalist class, whose interest only incidentally aligns with social needs. You're not proposing any kind of new system, just a heightened version of what we already have. You're ultimately just arguing that we constrict society to include fewer people in the sort of doomsday scenario we talk about as a "bad ending" to capitalism where we don't successfully break the cycle of capital and bend production to human needs instead of the other way around.

No one said this, you aren't using any "logic" you are just sperging out into the void. Maybe when you get some reading comprehension you will drop the meme flag. Didn't read the rest of your shitpost.

Well I am kinda new here to the board and I have a feeling that writing about personal things (when they do not invovle the military, diplomacy, law, economy, and politics in any sense) is something bad, something you dont do. You probably didnt come here to read about that.

But fine, I am a 20 something virgin, which sounds awful, but I simply went to engineering schools where everyone was a guy, so now I am not sure am I confident and all that, or if I am an awkward fuck who wont get anywhere. It is a sweet torment. She laughs at my jokes, we hang out, she seems happy around me and talks to me. She seems interested in me but we know each other for one month, she could simply be friendly. She told me she doesnt have a boyfriend and asked me if I have a girlfriend, good sign no?

I am too afraid to tell her how I feel about her because I basically have no friends, and was never in a relationship, and if she rejects me it might be too much for me to handle.
Other than that I kinda made my peace with being friendless. Over time, I have been hoarding saws, hammers, nails, cooking pots, bags….. I plan on actually just heading out into the wilderness and living my days alone there. Not even joking, I have a hard time living my life and I think that I will be happier if I make a shack somewhere.

And then as "productive forces" increase and fewer people are needed to keep everything running, more people "are not worthy of" the resources. This is a paradigm where the population asymptotically approaches zero. And if you take the reduction in demand into account, then it speeds for zero even faster since fewer mouths to feed means less demand for production, meaning that the number of people needed to keep the lights on (which is a proportion of the total population) also decreases. The whole thing is basically a positive feedback loop of death.

You clearly haven't thought this through.

Go get drunk with her, generally when a girl that likes you is in your personal space and a little intoxicated they edge towards you hoping you'll do the same until you kiss. If they look down at your lips then that's definitely the time to do so.

But we dont have communism now, and we will never have it, if we continue to swim with these concrete shoes. And there are two of these shoes. The bosses and the mouth breathing members of the working class.

How can you achieve a post scarcity economy, with all of the vanity and drain that our modern working class is??? I dont see a way.
I am telling you, current working class is performing labor that is unneeded, welfare jobs basically, and the rest of their lives are equally unsustainable on their own:
They all live like they live today thanks to the fraction of productive people, with predominately technical backgrounds.

Meanwhile there are people who are working full time are labor that is needed. So why don't we just divide up the labor that is needed among everyone? Because profit (competitive profit specifically) demands that workers be paid as little as possible. So instead of 60 people doing a 60-hour-a-week job for one hour each, we have 1 person doing that job for 60 hours per week. Every time technology has advanced under capitalism it has made X people redundant. Meanwhile a reasonable system would have simply made Y amount of work hours redundant. Instead of the capitalists (not "the boss") firing X people, we would simply reduce work hours for everyone, keeping pay the same because productivity was the same. You are trying to criticize capitalism (and communism) from entirely within the capitalist mindset.

At the very least read these books to get a basic understanding of the problems with the capitalist model. Right now you're just riffing based on your personal experience and missing a whole lot of the bigger picture.

Working class masses have (a degree of) freedom to do what they want, and most prefer to blast trashy music, get high, drink their pay, talk about fashion and sports, and basically I just cant stand my coworkers.

Take internet for example: we could all become… brain surgeons, but most of the internet traffic is porn and video games, do you see my point yet?

This is the "class disgust" part. I cant get rid of it. These disgusting fucking people man, they could be better off but they are not doing anything for themselves about that.
I am studying nonlinear heat expansion not because I like it but because I think it is important and I think this makes me more deserving damn it!

haha hey dude anyone ever tell you you sound like a fucking psychopath? there are enough /resources/ for everyone, not just feudal STEMlord lolberts like yourself.

That is not how that works. Christ dude, and you're trashing other people for thinking "technology is just when people do magic and things get better".

Who are you to say what they should be? I already told you that the problem is they're not paid what their work is worth. If they were they could afford the finer things and would be able to work less and devote more time to developing fine taste. You seem to take an essentialist approach here - as if these people are the way they are because of some innate quality instead of their circumstances.
Wow, it's a good thing you have the opportunity to study it because otherwise I guess you would have been undeserving out of bad luck or something.

More like narcissism tbh. Psychopaths tend to be pretty perceptive. It's narcissists who willfully ignore things that spoil their ideas (ahem)

No, it is precisely such a belief in "finer taste" (what the fuck?) that they are in such conditions, they all pursue these utterly worthless vanity and pretentiousness instead of doing the job first and a hobby later.

I think that in our society nobody sows (doing the technical things), but everyone reaps the rewards. Sports, fashion, arts, all this bread and circus bullshit is why most of the western working class lives like it does: choice.
And while some take that one shot at studying and go into debt to study something like engineering, others go into debt studying underwater basket weaving, and now they are resentful at the system, as if the system fucked them instead of their own stupidity.

Most of the supermarket crowd I've worked with deserved it. Hell, one could argue they deserved worse, not better, and I wouldnt know what to say. Half of my coworkers are precisely people who were "developing fine taste" in their educational phase, that we all receive in the west, dont give me that unfairness bullshit, you arent Best Korean and you know it.

Sounds like you're a no fun turbo autist who thinks he superior to people who actually has fun with their lives.
But getting serious, yes there is dumb people in this world but that is not bad, that same people already works on repetitive and tiresome work like the one you've described but they show to work drunk and are indisciplined because they're alienated from their labor, if they had control over what do they do at the work place they'll be more productive and happy.
You have to understand that we do not control all aspects of our lives and we're victims of fate that capitalist ideology doesn't wants us to change

You are not using a Marxist analysis of class. Engineers are also part of the working class. It does not matter how much their salary is, how skilled they are, they do not extract surplus value.

It already is, we do have enough resources to feed everyone, but we do not because food is a commodity. Same with housing and other necessities.

Not sure what you meant by this. The Marxist argument is that we have enough productive forces and we actually need less.
Abolish commodity production. Stop making bullshit like fidget spinners and Tinder clones. Produce the necessities and items for leisure.

Socialism is a complete re-structuring of society including labour. Utopian socialists claim that it is enough for workers to control the workplace - it is not. Most workplaces (e.g. advertising firms, supermarkets) will be abolished entirely.

The working class does not drive productive force, because under capitalist society they do not have the resources to do so.

You'd be surprised. My retail manager has a degree in Chemical Engineering. STEM is a meme, only specific sects of technology and engineering are well paid. In my province (Ontario) only 33% of those with engineering degrees find jobs in engineering.

So what?

Bizzare worldview. If you are correct in saying that engineers make 99% of the production, that is because the market favours the labour they do. I do not see how this is an indictment of non-STEM workers. This is like getting mad at grocery store workers during the Dotcom bubble because grocery stores do not have as high a stock price as major websites.
To be frank mate you come across as an entitled first year introverted STEM student who thinks everyone not in STEM is below them.
You clearly do not read Marxist philosophy and felt the need to lie about it, likely because you think that you are too smart to read it and would rather go off word of mouth and YouTube videos.

… I hate this meme.
I study CS and I will guarantee you these technologies will not see the light of day for at least 200 years. Yes, they do work on a small scale on very niche use cases but a lot of things cannot be automated.
For example, those pre-made sandwiches that you can get at Starbucks. The machines put them together, wrap them, but they are too stupid to apply pressure properly to box them and put an expiration date sticker on them, they end up smashing the sandwich into pieces.
Automation is happening, but this complete automation is a fantasy. Companies know this, instead they aim to fuse technology and humans together from something as easy as simple as GPS devices to department store cart returners to making AIs that can delegate a worker's tasks for them in an efficient order.

Yeah well Lenin was notoriously antifun as well. Listen, I am not antifun, I just think that a whole lot of bad things can happen to you if you dont pay attention and make sure the chores are all done. In the extreme, you die a painful death if you dont.

Chemical engineering is a meme degree, STEM itself is a meme buzzword, and so are thousands of hyper theoretical subfields with absolutely no backing in any known industry. These people who pursue these arcane theoretical things are stupid in their own fruitless way.

I am sure that all the jobs I have done so far could be automated easily. Whole service industry is a glorified vending machine. Trust me I'd known. I'd rather buy what I need from a vending machine than fellow coworkers if I could.

Are they really? We clearly need chemical engineers but we can't employ them because porky doesn't need them to make money. Imagine a world if nobody studied mathematics or physics at a post-secondary level, it would be darkness.

The type of automation is different from what OP is talking about. OP is talking about completely abolishing labour - the farm is run by nobody, managed by nobody, the food is automatically delivered with no human interaction. Putting up an automatic vending machine in a restaurant isn't 100% automation, you still require people to clean, dishwash, cook and help in case the machines fuck up.
McDonald's themselves automated the cash register and instead moved everyone to the kitchen and installed more fryers to make more money - there is still plenty of human labour.

Are you Brazilian, user?

And what equation do you use to differentiate what is essential and what is vanity? Because porky at least uses equations for this, not feels.
As for being unable to automate kitchens or dishwashing, just google Japanese and German car manufacturing that produces everything from a wheel to a seat belt to an engine block, whole fucking complete car, with zero human labor.

I suspect they are still using labor because they cant handle the mass of angry unskilled workers. So out of military reasons, not economic ones. Not like they cant be wiped out with a missile or a virus or something but still. The world we live in simply doesnt favor the masses just because, for no reason. These masses are becoming obsolete, service industry together with the financing industry, most of porky as well as most of proles, are made obsolete by technology.

Read Cockshott. STEM is the vanguard.

paul cockshott? never heard of the guy, thx, now i can listen to something while i relax, just what i needed, thanks a lot

And what did I say on my post? We're all victims of fate

Again how does that impede there ability to democratically manage there workplace.

There is no law of nature that says you have to be a victim of fate.

They are uncompetitive and can not survive in the market, they provide a shit service and society should get rid of them. This isnt even ideological, its just pure productivity thing.

And this is why markets are a shit way to distribute resources, thus the left's opposition to them. Why should I compete and be accountable to market forces when I don't want to? Plus you need consumers to actually buy things in the market otherwise it all collapses.

You're implying that there is a choice, there is none.

lol like fuck am I gonna read all of this

Why should you be entitled in the first place? I am not even disagreeing with you that markets are bullshit, I am just wondering why should you be entitled to stuff.

State of nature forces a man to be much more accountable than a market, for a pound of meat you have to be accountable far more in nature than you do in the market, nature oppresses us all with hunger, I dont see your point, why are you entitled to be not accountable to anything and anyone???

If it is all so deterministic, explain quantum mechanics. And also, who the fuck cares if there is a choice or if there isnt, how is caring about such a thing productive in any way, shape or form? Pure vanity strikes again.

The proletariat does not mean the working poor. It has nothing to do with income my dude.

I am just afraid that supporting the local left here is a 100% futile effort because they are all about the working poor, and that no one appreciates the actual proleteriat, and that the actual proleteriat doesnt even need any leftism because they do well for themselves anyway.

Everyone needs food, shelter, air, and water to survive it's not a matter of entitlement it's a matter of survival. I came into contract with the state with the intention to secure my survival, my survival would NOT be very secure in the state of nature because as Thomas Hobbes points out I'd be stupid to trust anyone. The leviathan refusing to provide me with security in food, water, and shelter despite the fact that I work 40 hours a week and pay my taxes is a direct violation of the social contract.

But for something to be a contract, both sides need to agree to it, right? Seems to me only you agreed there, so its not a contract. If I rape someone, that is not a contract just because I agreed to have sex with them.
You say you are entitled to it because it is a matter of survival, but how is something being a matter of survival entitling you to it?

My understanding of this is that murder, force and violence is the only thing that entitles you to something. If you want to live, you have a duty to these things. Animals in nature are not entitled to survival, if they get overpowered and eaten that is it for them, and same goes for men, if the government finds it too expensive to save you from some natural disaster lets say, it wont do it, it will not send the troops and whatever to save one you from death, if you cant overpower whatever is killing you, you die, that is how things are. Facade of human rights and niceness and all that comes down really quickly every time someone tests it.
Your entitlement is therefore equal to your duty, and the duty always comes first. You have a duty to sow, not to reap.

If that's the case then there is no reason not to attempt to defy and destroy the government.

Or become the government. That one is just as viable if you can pull it off.
What is a difference between a robbery and taxes? I mean armed men force you to pay up, that is what it really is. What is a difference between arrest and kidnapping? What is a difference between being innocent and guilty in society? Murder? Not all murderers end up sentenced, cant be that. Theft? Some thieves manage to get away, so its not that either. Innocence? Some innocent people get the max penalties, so its not that one either. It is simply getting caught. That is what defines all the sentenced criminals. Getting caught. It is the defining characteristic.

I dont understand how is just pure force not to politics, and law, and economy, and all those things what numbers are to mathematics, and atoms are to chemistry. Force is all there is.

The leviathan/commonwealth can only exist with the consent of the people, as soon as that consent breaks down you get civil war, a return to the state of nature, then a new commonwealth will emerge. Again I am paying my taxes and following the law, and since we live in a commonwealth, there exists things such as justice, entitlement, right, wrong, etc. It's suicidal for the commonwealth to demand that I sow for free, even slaves have basic security since someone needs to do the labor, and those people at the very least need food, water, shelter, etc.
tl;dr read Leviathan by Thomas Hobbes

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, mind. Just that there's no justification for me sowing for the government either (or my landlord)

Fuck off tankie.

This isn't about science but about how people doesn't fully control their lives.
I see you're not much for philosophy

I know, I am taking things to the extreme just for fun, and in this extreme, you find out that your rights you have because you pay taxes, arent… secure, they arent 100% guaranteed. Only things you can guarantee with your own force, are guaranteed. Lets say for the sake of talking I tell your government or your whoever gives you rights, that I am going to give them trillion dollars and solve all their problems, if they violate your rights and kill you. Governments killed their own citizens for far less. And by governments I dont only mean Somalian one, I really mean all of them.

There is a justification. It is called force. Do or die (or the Russian variant, die but do). If they force you to do a thing, doing that thing is now in your rational interest.

Calling a vanity/unproductive thing something other than an unproductive thing does not change its fundamental qualities. There, that's a philosophy for ya innit? Whether it is fashion, sports, artistic sense or free will vs determinism, it is all fundamentally irrelevant and unproductive, so why bother?

Besides, everything is philosophy, so being anti-philosophy is just as philosophical as being pro-philosophy. Kinda shines a light on just how bullshit it all is.
Which is why I want to focus on the productive things and do those in my life instead.

By your own arguments, the thing most in my own interest is to not get caught.

Yes and while I certainly do not live like that, I cant find a counter argument to it, neither can I find any of the philosophers or whatever who advocated just that, which is so strange to me, because according to me it is the most universal thing out there.


I dont know where you pulled those last 2 lines out of but I just never understood the merit of art and philosophy. Both seemed like pseudo intellectual non-disciplines to me worthless people do, like its something for worthless people who also want to be smart but cant do actually smart things, or something along those lines. I just never got it.

Just because you are an uncultured brainlet it does not give you the authority to determine what is or is not worthless

kek, pure vanity again, dont the english have the expression of putting make up on a pig is a futile effort? how is what you consider culture any different? what is a unit of culture? how do you measure it? you cant, can you? so how do you know that my anti-culture opinion isnt far more cultured than your cultured?

Whoa there bucko that sounds like a philosophical question there would want to waste your time on something so worthless would you?

This is much why I became an anarchist. The system in which I can inflict the most of my force to gain my own desire with the least risk.

that just proves my point
i am already the most philosophical master of philosophy, because i said so and because philosophy does not require any empirical proof

Careful there Narcissus wouldn't want to get lost in your own reflection would you?

when your post is 100% insult and 0% argument, you should know you lost/have nothing to say

The thing is I never really had anything to say from the beginning

why speak in the first place then?

Why not?

I think the alienation of labor and education creates people that are as stupid and simple minded as humanly possible, obviously with the current skillset workers have now we're not going to be able to seize the MoP. It's going to be a learning process where we rebuild and learn how to collectively manage complex workplaces. I think this article about workers taking over their factory in Greece paints a pretty good picture of what that process will look like
(oh and I don't believe the myth that productive forces have to reach a certain magical threshold where socialism is suddenly possible, nor that it under capitalism can ever reach a point where it satisfies the needs of everyone, as capitalism constantly creates new needs and desires along with its productivity increases)

STEMlord gang at it again I see.

There won’t be a market in socialism.

Funny paradox in bourgeoise ideology that only people who actually work can be lazy.

You've just stumbled on what the next system will be - "meritism" where a technocratic elite will own all of the property and justify their rule by educational status. This system will also have its own contradictions and be rife with corruptions, and degenerate into a kind of feudalism where families of "meritorious" people will be locked into their status, just like capitalism is degenerating into feudalism.

So you're basically proto-fascist.

There was Max Stirner.

Is this a Howard thread?

I'm 100% sure that Howard would not post without his trip.

Lol, no. Howard has been called out shitposting both without his trip and using a different trip. But I don't think that OP is Howard. Judging from his posting style, his belief in the working class/middle class/rich class hierarchy, how he views the left in his own country, etc., I would say that OP is one of those libertarian Brazilians that you see a lot on the internet.

You live somewhere in South America, right? Really, just take a minute or 2 to ponder about their character and why they do shit like that.
People who do the stuff you mentioned likely couldn't receive anything resembling a good education or had any reason to aspire to do any better, not only because of alieniation, but also due to the strong anti-intellectualism in culture as a whole. Also people who listen to trashy music and just talk about fashion and sports just don't want to take the time to develop their tastes and tbh i find that ok because spending my free time complaining about that would just be absolutely bourgeois. You might just be jealous that they have more social success than you

what on earth are you doing on leftypol
these are basically right-wing screeds written by someone worthy of contempt

This is what STEM turns people into.

I can smell that Eastern European soup through the screen, OP.

Your a technocrat, now find Howard Scott so you can jack off to eachother

Fuck off back to 2ch.

So, to sum up, OP is some kind of engineer with literal autism and is unable to comprehend the value of art, philosophy, and anything that is not "quantifiable" and productive. He furthermore holds extreme contempt for the working class, and goes as far as to suggest that someone that isn't competitive in the marketplace doesn't deserve to live. If anything, I admire his abandonment of any justification of brutal capitalism, he straight up despises the average person st trying to make a living.
He clearly hasn't read leftist literature and I predict, with the right influence, he'll easily turn to far-rightism in a few years, or at least some kind of neoconservatism.

As socialists, we want a society where everyone can contribute to socially necessary labour and have easy access to performing such labour, as well as any renumeration for limited goods. All talk of "deserving" and "undeserving" people is shitty ideology under a system of oppressive market forced dictating your life.

Read James Burnham, this is a very old idea.

>I think there is a third class, class of technologically literate people who basically contribute vastly to the productive forces of society. The engineers mostly, but also mathematicians, physicists, you know, the whole crew that makes the lightbulb shine when you press the button, or makes the clean water show up. And these guys have no problem with the profit motive
Read Veblen. It's unclear to me what you mean by the terms working class and unproductive, and I'm pretty sure it is unclear to you as well.