Pic related: banner reads "Save a farmer, eat a vegan"
Animal rights activists associated with 269life Animal Liberation peacefully gathering in front of a Limoges slaughterhouse in protest of alleged animal abuse had their meeting disrupted by the Confederation of Farmers, a professional union representing the agricultural sector. Bertrand Venteau, leader of the Confederation, claimed they didn't want to "allow this cult who seeks our elimination to roam free". They eventually rushed the area and held a barbecue party amidst insults and a minor scuffle.
before all the retard hurr durr ima eat more meat now cause i hate them liberal vegans retards come in let me remind you that excessive meat production destroyed the rainforest in middle america, needs an excessive amount of wheat and fresh water to be produced, is in most casees unhealthy, full of antibiotics and the most unnecessary luxury of the western world while there are 800 million people that are malnutritioned in developing countries there is nothing socialistic in destroying the wolrd for MCDonalds
Posting in a vegan bullying thread.
I'm 100% on board with veganism in theory, but 2 things fam. 1. Vegans are awful at spreading their ideas due to most being in on it for the self-righteousness high. As a result the vast majority of people more or less correctly view vegans as insufferable tools. 2. Of all the idpol that can wait until after the revolution, veganism can wait the most.
even as a vegan i don´t think that eating meat is bad in it self since i don´t give a fuck about animals it´s just the mass production that should end if you only eat meat in reasonable amounts and produced ecologically and economically i couldn´t care less
Vegan are liberalism incarnate. They'd rather fight over petty bullshit like animal rights than do something. Go to the african child and tell him he's a meat cuck for wanting to eat a steak for once in his life. I don't want throw away centruries of gastronomic tradition because of your obsession with PC. Veganism is Gastronomic PC. Veganism is SJWism on the table.
and by econimically i mean as in the food supply for everyone is given
See this is what I'm talking about. Your points sound entirely reasonable to the average person, especially if you throw in stuff about factory farming making meat unhealthy. I've long thought that it would go a lot farther to just advocate for people reducing their consumption of meat on health and environmental grounds.
But then you get your typical vegan who just screams about how meat is murder and how this thing everyone grew up doing and has been normalized is a great evil. You will get nowhere ever with that approach, even if it is true.
i think it´s true what you´re saying but there is also the other side of the problem, wich is people being very defensive/triggered if you talk about meat. I think that´s a) because junk food is addictive and b) people know deep down that meat consumption is bad (even though most of the time because of morals) which leads them to an even more irrational response
Oh sure. I'm not trying to lay blame really, just to point out that the approach doesn't work. You gotta take the defensiveness into account when you approach people about sensitive topics.
If you're not a vegetarian at least then it's just pure (unethical) hedonism, failing some kind of extreme dietary restriction. You know that you're killing animals for your own pleasure and you don't care, if you admit it, well at least there's no self deception, it's the other arguments that really piss me off.
THE ALF DID NOTHING WRONG, SMASH THE BUTCHERS AND THE LOGGERS AND THE PHONY 'SCIENTISTS'
Nah, I care but the biggest thing is that it's much more convenient to eat animal products than try to find vegan substitutes that meet nutritional requirements. Pleasure is vastly minor next to convenience. A lot of places (especially in rural burgerstand) don't have widely available vegan foods like vegetable protein or tofu and the only vegan option is basically buying raw beans and cooking them yourself. Even our canned beans usually come with bacon included. That and massive factory farmed meat generally ends up being cheaper than the vegan options as well, aside from the ones where you have to do the cooking yourself. And that's without even getting into the question of putting in the effort to make sure none of your food has any animal products in it (whey, gelatin, etc. get added to all kinds of shit). Veganism is mostly a lifestylist position and it's not very accessible to a large portion of the working class.
And tons of "vegan" products rely on practices that damage the fuck out of the ecosystem or exploit pollinator species, so they're not really vegan either.
When are we gonna start posting vegetarian recipes?
How is veganism idpol? Is "animal" an identity?
Yes. "Human" and "animal" are identities. Identities generally do have a material basis.
dude you don´t need vegan products or have to be able to cook well to live healthy just look at fuckin mushrooms they have up to 20 g of protein per 100g also high protein diet is a fuckin /fit/ meme it´s really not hard to get your macros in a cheap vegan manner
Interestingly enough some African tribes actually subsisted on almost nothing but meat. But vegans still be like
oh yeah those african tribes that also live an average of 70 years, feed their animals with fucktons of antibiotics and steroids and eat them in the form of an """"""""""""cheese""""""""""burger
I mean, if these farmers are actual open agriculturally that's fine. But as a board we should really tackle factory farming more often, even if some of you are iffy on animal rights.
We should all agree factory farming shouldn't exist.
Farmers are petty bourgeois, what do you expect
Bacterial rights is the next struggle after animal rights tbh
Hurhurhue yeah who can tell the difference in consciousness between a pig and e. coli?
Even if you only care bout the well-being of humans, you still must take into account that a pattern of systematic animal cruelty will undoubtedly shape human consciousness and behavior to be more callous and even sadistic. against fellow humans as well.
They are both dumb as shit.
tbh farmers are, at the very least, petite bourgeoisie.
This + links has been found between meat and cancer, associations between meat and inflammation has been found as well.
Do you really trust porky media/scientists that claim that meat is NOT bad for you?
Insect rights already exist for bees and certain kinds of butterflies.
Vegetarians kill plants for their own pleasure.
The worst, though, are the fucking hygiene fags, murdering countless innocent bacteria for little reason other than aesthetics and "health"
Why should we care about non-moral agents in first place? They were bread to service our needs in first place, their whole genetics have been cultivated for this purpose alone.
It's genetic pollution, when we go extinct, they over populate causing extinction, they may as well go extinct themselves. Eventually humanity's habits will come to bite them in the future. Factory farming is but one way our future is but sealed.
You do realize that once cloning meat becomes economically viable we will see immediate collapse of factory farming? What is the point of your struggle anyways? Would it not be better to use your resources,effort and time to improving human conditions instead of struggling over something that technology will fix anyways?
Hahahahaha he thinks North and South America are going to stop.
except that all proteins are not the same. Usually non animal proteins are low on essential proteins and even with the same ratio they aren't assimilated in the same amount. Same as omega 3, vegan omega 3 you only assimilate 20 % with fish it's 80%. I'm not saying been vegan is a meme but it's way harder than you think to have the same healthy diet from ORGANIC meat and vegetables, especially if you are an athlete.
Good luck with all those good future prion problems.
Hahahahhaaha he thinks there's money in doing something there's no money in
I didn't know there's no money in factory farming.
Not when you replace it there isn't
Markets are bound to change in this aspect. Just as market forces brought end to slavery due to economics of it, they surely will bring end to factory farming that wasting not just farmland, but lot of capital in production.
It's not related. Far rights animal activist and vegan in France always say to normie : a society which respects animals respects humans as well (and if you hang out to much with them they will tell how nazi germany was a pionner in animal rights). But it's not true, we recently had am an who did 6 month for beating a kitten and in the same time a 28 raping a 11 old is not judged as rape or pedophilia. Plus we have spontex against migrants. So no it's not related
No they're not bound to change. America and Latin America and South America will do what it's always done and rely on cheap methods of production that spread various diseases (prions in particular come to mind) with less and less regulations than expensive technology
If you deny this you're a naive technocratic liberal who trusts the market will fix factory farming by itself
Replace it? Why? Why would America ever replace it?
Are you just pretending that each reply exists in some sort of bubble or are you a little slow?
You just don't understand how this works. Factory farming/slaughter is still an enormous industry with political lobbying power in America and the meat gets exported. Some corporations are basically an empire of this shit.
When they see alternative in a world of less political and economic regulation they'll just work a way to shut it down. Just like the electric car throughout the 20th century, just like every new fad that might pick up power outside the states in your EU or Japan or what have you
America will still dominate in factory farming and it will never stop. Not even a prion epidemic will stop it.
Are prions even much of a problem anymore or are Americans being spazzy fucks putting things they shouldn't be in the feed still?
There's less and less regulations on our food each passing year. I wouldn't doubt their feeding animals their own carved up kind in whatever primordial muddy filth.
America is begging for an epidemic of mad cow disease or something similar. Still, too much money to be made to ever change.
You are completely missing my point. When the cloning of meat becomes economically viable it will due to the nature of capitalism out of necessity eliminate factory farming as cheaper and more productive format of producing meat.
You're missing my point. History has shown time and again there's a better option, corporations that wouldn't benefit from in America would lobby against and eliminate. Especially today, when lobbying power grows day in day out with no end in sight
I do not see a realistic way these giant corporations will fold their doors. It just won't happen.
Yeah, cannibalised grey matter is how you get prions. If there's no regulation against it people will do it until their whole livestock has to be culled and torched.
Just like horses were replaced by cars as medium of transportation? Cheaper and more effective methods of production have always in human history replaced more expansive and less productive formats.
You would be better off advocating for more funding towards research of meat cloning, if you wish to eliminate factory farming.
You're comparing factory farming being replaced like a horse and buggy gets replaced by a car. That's now even remotely comparable in America's material reality today. It's political, economic reality, its history, what we can predict from policy, nothing is showing me how this leap your saying suddenly happens all by itself because the market innovates.
America doesn't innovate. It looks for what's cheap and tries to make it cheaper than the alternative is so it doesn't let those corporations collapse. Cheaper cheaper cheaper cheaper
It doesn't matter. You're a fool for thinking otherwise
Exactly, like I stated, once it becomes economically viable. This is why it is of extreme importance to push for research to get the momentum going. Corporations will opt out for the cheaper alternative as it eliminates need for such large workforce leading to smaller expanses on wages,workplaces and even the raising and feeding of animals. It will be more time effective also.
Research won't ever beat American profits that actively lobby against it. It's why pharma has such a stranglehold on this country restricting advancement. It simply lobbys against it.
There's more freedom to lobby every day then there's been in a very very very long time. If we look back to that very very very long time we can get an answer. That answer is reflective of what we see today.
Your liberal notions of forward progress of man aren't going to happen.
Factory farming will remain a legitimate problem until something is legally done and that's not happening.
That research leads to profits, this is the reason why most big corporations have R&D departments in the first place.
One is sentient, the other isn't, it really isn't a remotely fair comparison.
If they're already invested in their farms fully, there's no reason they would ever sacrifice them on the scale you're suggesting. It's going to be a problem going into the future. We just have to wait and see what the consequences will manifest as. My guess has been, future prion problems, a related disease, or these animals just going loose in the wave of future natural disasters being unnacounted for. Tornados, hurricanes.
Like I agree with you fully that would cloned meat would be a great alternative and surely it probably will take off in Europe and Japan, etc. South Korea
But in America factory farming is too entrenched to go away over night. It'll take years, years we don't have until the natural consequences of factory farming start to reveal themselves.
Animal "rights" are the spookiest spook that ever spooked. The only valid reason not to be mean to animals is the effect it may have on the sapient psyches of people if done in an intentionally sadistic way.
You realize using low-quality or spoiled plant byproducts for animal feed instead of compost is more efficient, right? That animals produce high-quality fertilizer and other valuable byproducts even when raised for meat, right? That sustainably feeding animals off pasture or landscaping consumes zero water or soil, right? That high-intensity operations can reclaim the body heat and methane they produce, right?
Combining animal and plant agriculture, much as in natural ecosystems, is a more efficient use of resources than either type alone.
Mass production meat is often more efficient (much as new systems like hydroponics are often more efficient at growing plants), but as currently practiced it has the same problems as factory farming plants. Massive changes need to happen on both sides to produce sustainable, safe, affordable, less wasteful systems.
Hurr. Clearly there's no observable difference in the level of sapience, emotion, feeling etc between plants and higher order mammals. We have no evidence that plants can meaningfully feel anything in a non-mechanistic way (IE: sun on these leaves > grow in that direction).
But you already knew that, you filth. So go ahead, keep victimising those weaker than you and call yourself a leftist.
And clearly there is no observable difference in the level of sapience, emotion, feeling etc between animals and humans. Seriously, this entire argument is stupid. Unless you're a fucking plant you have to eat other living organisms to survive. Making an arbitrary distinction between different kinds of living creatures is pointless. You might as well be Autism Level-testing the animals to see which are okay to eat and which are not. That's not to say you should mistreat the animals or stuff them in factory farms, they should be treated as humanely and sustainably as possible, but saying "we should not eat meat" when the alternative is far more destructive is peak idiocy. Good pastureland is not always good farmland, and it requires really intensive agriculture to get a good yield out of it. Furthermore livestock can be incorporated into agriculture in a way that allows you to a higher yield per acre without increasing the intensity of the farming (say, pasturing livestock on fallow fields, letting pigs forage in woods, or just plain using manure to fertilize the crops instead of artificial fertilizer). That's far more reasonable than pure veganism
This is a pointless debate.
Even if the motivations are spooky or just plain stupid, the planet is better off if people eat less meat. I don't understand why some people feel threatened by vegetarianism. I personally can't live on a meat-free diet, but good for people who can. They're helping out in some way.
The Confederation of Farmers isn't even really a union, it's a "professional union" aka a corporatist organization — they represent the interests of an economic sector (agriculture), not that of a class segment (farm workers). It's petit-bourgeois as fuck.
But I'm not surprised this nuance is lost on your average Holla Forums memelord who thinks that if someone who looks like a prole says or does something, then surely it is 100% right and based, especially if it takes a cheap shot at liberals.
If people cut down on just 50% of their meat consumption the environment would be helped.
Decent post. For the sake of possible future contact with aliens or whatever, I think an adequate standard would be something along the lines of the Turing Test. The existence of people like Helen Keller show that where there's a will, there's a way, and the fact that every supposed example of animal communication has proven to be Clever Hans Effect provides a certain amount of rigor.
Regenerating grasslands with rotational grazing of animals would reverse desertification, sequester carbon and make lands that are too infertile to hold a sheep per hectare able to grow crops again. Also if the world keeps monocropping grains and legumes we are literally going to run out of topsoil, never mind water.