What's the best argument you have against the "taxation is theft" meme?

What's the best argument you have against the "taxation is theft" meme?

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Profit is theft.

Assuming it is, how's that an argument against the notion that taxation is theft? They could both be theft, or am I missing something here?

Nothing. Taxation is a theft. Like private property

It's not a meme, it's a fact.

Being mad at a very small segment of your produced value being taken away over the massive amount taken away by capitalists is retarded.

Because if you engage with taxation is theft you'll find yourself becoming the second coming of Maynard Keynes in around five seconds. If all they've said to you is that and all you respond with is that then you've immediately flipped the debate on its head and they'll have no choice but to debate you on your terms.

Taxation is the price of living in civil society under a state. Maybe if those same people stopped driving on paved roads, receiving mail, calling the police, or everything else the government had a hand in creating then I'd care if they thought it was theft or not.

I'm a Georgist.
Land tax is not theft - the land is a public resource, and claiming land as one's own and denying it to others even while profiting off of it is theft.

Didn't know such an economic philosophy existed.
It certainly has interesting tenants (based on my skimming of the Wiki page), and it rolls well with me because I always thought that land shouldn't be privately owned.

Well I mean there isn't exactly an alternative to provide services that are currently provided exclusively by the state, they could be seen as unwilling accomplices.

Get a job.

Georgism is popular among the c4ss crowd

If taxation is theft then so is rent. Their argument is that if you don't want to pay rent then go somewhere else, since that land belongs to the landlord and rent is a condition of occupying it.

Well this is the legally recognized territory of a particular state, and a condition of occupying it is to pay taxes. If you don't like it you can go somewhere else.

fuck off left-wing capitalist, you're the reason people strawman socialism as "when da gubbermand do things"

I do know that socialism isn't when the government does things. I wanted to know people's opinions on the "taxation is theft" argument, and I assumed (obviously wrongly) that everyone here would be against that notion.

"libertarianism is a mental illness"

Libertarians always use noncentral definition arguments, like feminists really.


Taxation is theft, no question about it. However, that is 100% not an argument, and people only perceive it as such because they think all theft has a negative value in it self.

What is theft? It is either a legal term - in which case taxation isn't theft.
If we define theft in natural terms, taxation would come after the injustice of property on the means of production, a theft from a thief at best.

It is. The rich don't pay tax, the workers do to pay for bailouts.

Property is theft.

You're welcome.

Taxes under capitalism is theft, because the workers, that produce the capital, need to pay into the government that defends private property. Taxation under a socialist state, help the society and directly the workes.

What are you gonna do about it?

This shit isn't even funny anymore. Even if you follow the ML model of a "socialist" state you can do so without taxes (see Albania)

Albania, is starting to open the market and isn't really socialistic anymore

Taxation is theft and so is private ownership of the means of production

There's nothing wrong with the notion that taxation is theft.
The only problem with the phrase is that it's become a shibboleth among certain idiots. You know, the ones who think that rent is perfectly fine and totally nothing like taxes.

He obviously meant Albania under Hoxha.

user, you're too dumb to be here.
albania has been raped by neoliberals for 25 years already, retard
it was also never socialist

this, given capitalism taxation is justified.

however I would engage "taxation as theft" as if it were true on the basis of private ownership of the means of production being theft of an individuals labor, money not being required when the fruits of your labor are your own.

The substitution of the products of labor for currency is itself theft by many definitions. Its basically forced indentured servitude to a nationwide incorporated company store in which all the land was allotted before you arrived.

If they are an ancap you just agree with them and push them further.

Property is theft

Rent is essentially a tax imposed by an individual, therefore rent is also theft.

Taxation is theft.

The DotP in advanced socialist revolutions will certainly abolish all forms of tax. Hell, if a fucking backward hellhole like Albania could do it, I'm sure somewhere like France or Spain could.

Property is theft. Taxation is theft.

If taxation is theft, then rent is theft.

If rent is not theft because you can leave your apartment, then you can leave the country you're being taxed in.

Taxes on land arent theft bc no one can really own land. Marx is only for taxes on land and you have to agree

Tax directly goes towards paying for services you benefit from on a daily basis, you can only call it theft if you find a way to completely disconnect yourself from every single service that taxation helps provide.

A good question to ask though is "why is theft bad?" What's wrong with taking "someone else's" property if in doing so it results in a net improvement for the majority?

Taxation is theft and so is Capitalism, the USSR had lower taxes than the USA and only introduced a system of taxation when a private sector was introduced, most ML states had also abolished taxation, the DPRK currently doesn't have to pay taxes, really makes you think.

The difference is ancaps believe proprietors legitimately own the property they claim, while states don't.

You don't need taxation when you have state capitalism directly taking the profits without any middlemen.

no profit from surplus value without representation?

I think, if it's for the common good, then it isn't theft. Taxation is just part of what a state needs to function normally. And if we didn't have a state, obviously we wouldn't need taxes. I don't think we can interpret private property as somehow being for the common good.

"You're right, so is property"

spicy as fuck