Discovery is out? All I've seen so far is the trailer, and if that's anything to go by it's going to be more rooty tooty run and shooty Abrams shit. I'm almost afraid to take a look because I'm almost certain that it will be.
Doesn't really inspire confidence.
Discovery Commander Burnham, who in the first episode, violates the Prime Directive, goes on a solo jet pack recon mission into an irradiated space, and kills the Klingon warrior for being there, then attempts a coup against her captain so she can try to destroy the Klingons, because in her words
I think that's in fact one of the most unique characteristics of Star Trek: that it doesn't just have current society in space, but it deliberately tries to portray a society of people that is radically different from present day.
I haven't watched any of Discovery, but I heard it takes place before TOS, so I hope this doesn't give the producers an excuse to "turn back" the socioeconomic relations, so to speak.
I'm not too optimistic either
I pray this is fanfic
The scene where she said that genuinely upset me. The fact that she was admonishing the general who just doesn't get it worried me a lot. It seems obvious that any US TV series is going to be aggressive war propaganda but I honestly thought Star Trek would be an antidote, for some reason.
Sorry, admiral (i think) not general.
You're lying. You've got to be lying!
I think Star Fleet just has Admirals. I think standing armies (such as they are) are left to the individual civilizations of The Federation. Although O'Brien talks about wasting some Cardies during the war, but I don't think SF maintains an equivalent of marines or an army, outside of war time anyway.
TNG does portray a way socialism could exist in the future. There's also the Ferengi, who are a funny contrast to the Federation and a critique of the current economic system.
Starfleet uses the same ranking system as the US Navy. Admiral > Captain > Commander > Lt. Commander > Lieutenant > Ensign > Cadet
On that note, everyone should watch the DS9 episode Bar Association for some fun lefty entertainment. Rom, a Ferengi (space ancaps), forms a union and quotes Marx. For DS9 standards, it's pretty episodic and doesn't rely on much continuity prerequisite.
I really can't believe I didn't have this saved already.
discovery is going to be mindless Abrams spacemans pew pew trash
My man Worf no ;~;
I've never watched star trek before but I like this show so far.
I think we have to look at what happened after the show was made. You definitely can't say there was any resulting socialist or leftist hyperstition in the decades after. What with the hypermeritocrats that were gaining power in the 90s. There was definitely a hyperstititional technocracy from Star Trek that contributed to great cyberhype we are still going through.
That may have all ended though. Right-populism has beaten the technocratic social elites of the American left. We have yet to see if the is temporary, or if Trump's coalition will solidify.
I think we were beginning to see an end to the New Economy cyberhype with Obama and more with Trump. Techvelopment has decelerated and capital consolidation has accelerated.
With technology as the barrier between us and nature, we could see increased anxieties about being straightjacketed to primal instincts in the face of growing hierarchy. Aspiring socioengineers might have to become imaginative and learn to appreciate the best parts of base human nature, because our tools will be limited.
Another civilization destroyed by Marxism!!
Everyone agrees that TNG is the best Trek series, right?
It's funny, because it seems to have achieved the show's vision much better than the original series.
In general TNG wins out, but you got longbeards that will say TOS, while people that grew up in the 80s/90s or after usually pick TNG or DS9.
Some people pick Voyager, but they're weird.
Is being entertained such a bad thing?
It's too bad more people don't like non-JJ Abrams Star Trek. A lot of good stuff in it.
First pictures quote could easily be something Hitler said.
rafiq isn't that bad, he actually reads zizek.
It's a follow-up to Abrams disgusting shitfests, do you honestly have any hope for this crap?
Any good essential viewing lists? My brother is a huge fan of DS9 and I've only paid attention to the two Discovery Episodes.
Did you graduate high school in 2016 or 2017?
All of TNG and DS9 is a must. If I had to pick between the two, it would be TNG
I know what you mean by this question but I'm basing this anecdotally off my own friend circle. Only one of them likes older Star Trek and everyone else likes the new stuff.
I graduated in 2005.
Space elves are the best.
I kind of want to write an H-story now with a busty Vulcan female getting mind broken
Star Trek depicts a state capitalist society, which had instituted an imperialist Federation in order to exploit the other races of the galaxy for the benefit of humans. Some form of currency is still evident within Starfleet as replicator rations or credits. Furthermore, Starfleet continues to be both White Supremacist and Patriarchal with PoC relegated to support roles on backwater space stations and women abandoned in the Delta Quadrant by the Starfleet hierarchy which reserves the prestigious roles for white male woman haters such Picard and the rapist Kirk.
Oh, come on. Don't pretend that a good fraction of Holla Forums doesn't have the same views regarding culture (especially in the wake of absorbing a lot of Holla Forums migrants).
We're talking about something much more important than Holla Forums you p'tahk.
Could someone explain to me why did they sent the two highest ranking officers on board to an extremely risky mission instead of sending some security team of sorts by the end of episode 2?
It's not looking good so far:
Sounds like porky trying to ruin space communism to have a scapgoat to say 'see communism is dystopian and oppressive even in future visions'
If you want a superior "Star Trek" show, made by people who actually enjoy Star Trek for what it iswas, wait for The Orville.
Eh, not that unprecedented compared to the DS9 (a show that I despise, in spite of its having a handful of very good episodes) writing staff going out of their way to shit all over Star Trek's pacifism, secularism, idealism, and above else its optimism.
I doubt it's entirely or necessarily at all ideological, I think it's mostly attributable to "herp derp durk edgy is matoor" sentiment.
Woof. So this is the fucker we have to thank for this pile of shit, huh?
ITT: Brocialists celebrate the rapist Kirk
TOS was a compromised version of Gene Roddenberry's vision. TNG is where the show got legit. And to be fair Kirk was a pretty representative ambassador for humans.
I don't like DS9 as well. Yet every nerd was always telling me how it is "patrician" and the best Star Trek series, but I found it to be tedious. The political and moral conflicts weren't more complex than on TNG, the villains honestly really sucked, and the cast was mediocre at best.
I even like Voyager over DS9, at least the first 4 seasons of Voyager which were quite decent imo
Visually it was the most impressive tv show I've ever saw, they didn't go cheap on production. But the acting and shit like these are ruining it so far for me. It's a real shame cause it had a huge potential.
Even speaking as someone who holds Enterprise to a solid 3rd-place behind TOS & TNG, well ahead of DS9, that's some pretty shit taste, mate.
Nothing with Seth McFartlane in it will ever gonna be good.
Voyager >>>> Enterprise
I can't wait until RLM/Plinkett tears this show a new one.
Oh come on, first four seasons had some neat episodes, the two Scorpion ones were one of the best Star Trek episodes ever, One Year of Hell was really good, most of the Hirogen shit was entertaining and I remember liking the obligatory Back to the Future ones too.
It turned to shit in season five, mostly due to abysmal writing especially in the dialog
this and fucking speed holes in the saucer are fucking retarded
m-maybe it was just an Insane Admiral? that's one of the few things they haven't had a shallow theme-park version of that completely misses the fucking point in the fuckawful remake yet so it'd make sense
I kinda like the ship design. It's got a sort of brutal or ugly beauty to it. If they'd used it for one of Starfleet's warships I think I would be fine with it as a contrast between these ships of war and the ships of exploration. I don't think I'd ever come to love it, but under the right circumstances I could at least accept it.
I just watched the two episodes. My fucking god, is it impossible to just watch anything these days without being rectally pumped with neoliberal ideology? The first scene is a casual violation of the prime directive, which is of course a slap in the face for all Star Trek fans, Klingons are basically North Korea or Iran and of course the Neocon main character was right all along that you should just attack them whenever you see them because violence is the only language they understand, mixed in in with IdPol about muh strong women (a Asian lady in her 40s takes on a fully armored Klingon warlord as if he was a random grunt).
Also, where is all the tech babble? That was always an integral part of Star Trek. Battle sucked ass, as it was to be expected, Star Trek battles were always slow-paced and tactical, but of course it has to be some JJ Abrams pew-pew Star Wars bullshit.
Just finished watching the first episode, and boy is it a steaming pile. And, let me be clear, any combination of two or three of the glaring defects in the first episode I could have forgiven. Just about every Trek series had a rocky start, but if you looked, you could see the diamonds in the rough. TOS, the effects are shit, the stories are hit or miss, and because the budget sucked they reused everything, including plots. But IMO you could forgive its faults for when it succeeds. The rapport between Kirk, Spock, and McCoy could be really touching. They way they behaved with each other, you could believe that they were shipmates that had spent years together, through danger and adventure, victory and tragedy.
TNG's first two seasons weren't too hot either. Silly plots, goofy acting, sometimes even bordering on the ridiculous (the introduction of the Ferengi for example). But toward the end of the second season it began to find its stride. You forget the black goo monsters and other cheesiness because of things like the Borg, or that episode where Picard lives a whole simulated lifetime within the satellite of a dead civilization. I think anybody could find someone in TNG to identify with.
So, I'm trying real hard to give this the benefit of the doubt.
First five minutes things are already causing me unease. Klingons look different, but aesthetic changes are forgivable imo. Now instead of space orientals (mongolians, chinese, japanese samurai) they're space Egyptians, mummifying and entombing their dead on a massive tomb ship. While this is a pretty substantial change, especially by adding the Klingon Jihad angle, personally I think this could work within the broader framework of the rest of Star Trek.
Also within the first five minutes, and the captain of the Shenzhou and her first officer are severely bending, if not breaking, the Prime Directive. There's a quick line of dialogue about some nearby space-mining accident fucking up their water table, so they go in to shoot phasers into a well to make water. Technically they could probably get away with it if Starfleet made an issue of it, since it was an unnatural accident that caused it. Still, it's implied that this race of bug people are basically in the iron age. It's not as egregious as Into Darkness where Kirk just shits all over the PD and freezes a volcano. They're in and out, no one discovers they're aliens. Stupid, but not especially bad, at least compared with what's to come.
The scene amounts to nothing except a long, boring sequence where two boring characters we don't know talk about how much they trust each other after seven years serving together. Because of a sandstorm, they can't beam out or contact the ship. The captain's solution is to… walk around the desert, creating a starfleet insignia with their footprints in the sand. Somehow this lets the Shenzhou know where they are, and the ship comes down through the sandstorm to give them a ride. What the absolute fuck.''
The main Klingon bad guy is all right. He's a generic holy warrior on a crusade against the Federation, ostensibly because its a threat to Klingon culture/society/whatever. Off-handedly he mentions a prophecy or some shit. It's not clear as of the first episode if he's an actual zealot or not, but dollars to donuts he's manipulating everyone to get revenge on the Federation for some reason. This isn't awful, but it's not terribly complex or compelling. He's just a dude with a fucked up face that wants to waaargh!! the humies.
So, back on the ship, something punched a hole through a Fed subspace communications beacon, and the Shenzhou is sent off to patch it up. They aren't sure if it's a hostile act, or if one of the massive hunks of stellar debris in this binary star system is responsible. Which, why did the Federation put something as important as a subspace communication beacon in a system littered with stellar debris? Only the lieutenant commander is displaying anything like caution, when the discovery of something 2000 kilometeres beneath them immediately validates his cause for concern: it's actively "obscuring our optical sensores" or some shit. The only way apparently to discover what it's about is to send someone out in a jet pack to visually inspect it. The alien, Lieutenant Commander Saru, objects, because you'd only have a 20 minute window before you're fried by radiation sickness. Asian captain's first officer volunteers, and is allowed to go. We get treated to a stupid action scene of FO flying at ridiculous speed through stellar debris that is apparently too dangerous to drive a shuttle through. Instead of a gradual, thoughtful approach, FO gazing in amazement at the stellar wonders that should be present, she just flies really fast.
FO makes it to the object jamming their sensors and walks around on it in awe. She doesn't notice a humongous Klingon warrior sneaking up from behind. He's the Klingon-Messiah's "torchbearer." What that's supposed to mean isn't really explained. FO-kun tries to communicate, but then hits her jetpack and accidentally impales this Klingon on his own bat'hleth. She knocks herself out and floats off into space.
We're treated to a flashback of FO's childhood on Vulcan (I guess), or at least in a Vulcan "learning center." Sarek is there. Kid-FO panics at seeing scenes of destruction wrought by Klingons. I guess they're hinting that her parents were killed by Klingons, because apparently she's Sarek's ward, despite never having been mentioned before and there's no trace or mention of Spock. Wake up, and FO is in sickbay. The doctor says some meaningless things. And FO asks why they aren't in combat. Despite having severe radiation poisoning–large parts of her body are seared and the doctor threatens "genetic unspooling" if she doesn't finish her therapy–she's allowed to get up out of the treatment tube/chamber and for some reason physically goes up to the bridge to tell the Captain that there are Klingons here. Despite having a "grade three concussion" and being severely irradiated, Micheal (the first officer, I just can't remember any of these boring, uncharismatic, stilted characters for very long) is able to stand on her own, speak and reason coherently, and even musters up some feistiness when Saru sasses her about how she's not only irradiated–and thus exposing everyone on the bridge to radiation–but also at death's door. Still, FO is able to convince the Captain to go to red alert. FO recounts her encounter with the Klingon, and for some reason when she says that she accidentally killed him, everyone gives each other weird, significant looks. Saru wants to withdraw, but, according to Captain Phillipa, "this is federation space. Retreat is not an option." FO gets the bright idea of targeting the object she jetpacked to, and Saru says, and I quote: "We cannot destroy another culture's property on a whim." They target the object and the Klingon ship decloaks. Someone says "no warp signatures detected" like this is somehow a surprise. To be fair, if I recall right cloaking devices aren't a thing until Kirk encounters the Romulan ship in that TOS episode. Come to think of it, though, this space object is apparently shielded by some sort of cloaking device as well, because despite using a regular refractory telescope, they still can't see it, though that might have been because of the asteroids.
For some reason the Shenzhou and the Klingon ship are nose to nose. Saru is apparently the only one with a functioning brain, because he wants to gtfo. Despite being livestock, his people were "bred for one purpose and one purpose alone: to sense the coming of death," and he's disturbed, but manages to keep his cool. Now, instead of talking to people on viewscreens, you have holograms that walk around and look at people as though they are physically in the room together. Cap is talking to some generic admiral, who in turn admonishes FO: "Next time you might try not to disturb the property of a warrior race we haven't spoken to for a hundred years." Despite realizing that the Klingons have some kind of cloaking device (on a ship that's apparently ancient, or at least is encrusted in sarcophagi with ancient Klingons in them), and both the Captain and the Admiral smelling some kind of trap. FO wants to blast them, the Admiral chides her again for racism against Klingons. More starfleet ships are still 2 hours out, and the admiral orders them to chill and wait for backup. The Captain says that there are colonies and shit nearby so they can't just split anyway. Despite everyone having nothing but bad feelings about their situation, they don't take any precautions. Suddenly the ship is bombarded with some kind of photonic blast that floods the ship with light and some shrill sound. Saru says something stupid about sympathetic resonance. FO leaves
The stuff with the Klingons is the least awful part. Apparently the empire has been in a prolonged state of civil war as house fights house. Klingon Jesus is basically a theocratic ultra-reactionary bent on curbing Federation expansion and maintaining their "Klingon purity." Where the gene-modded Klingons from TOS/TNG fit into this, I don't know. If this show were written by competent people, that should have been a catalyst in part for this kind of reaction. Instead, I'm sure the writers just forgot or didn't care in the first place.
The previous torchbearer is mummified and entombed on the outer hull of the ship. On its own, this is kind of cool. Klingon Jesus gets a new Torchbearer in an albino Klingon zealot. What this is or supposed to signify really isn't explained. His job it seems is to just light the beacon which is supposed to… accomplish something, for some reason. While the incompetent crew of the Shenzhou just sit there, KJ orders his albino to activate the object, making more vague religious pronouncements that I guess are supposed to be taken seriously, which floods the Shenzhou with light, etc. Meanwhile, FO calls Sarek on the space phone and he immediately picks up. He shares with her super-secret information about Vulcan/Klingon relations. Apparently, the Vulcan ship that tried to negotiate was obliterated. Since then the Vulcan MO regarding Klingons has been immediate termination on sight. Despite saying all along that the only way of dealing with the Klingons is with force, this is somehow revelatory to Micheal. Why Sarek treats this like it's muh privileged information isn't clear either. He doesn't relate anything especially nefarious or heinous about it. The Vulcans just encountered a hostile species, tried to talk, got killed for their trouble, and from then their MO regarding Klingons was to shoot on sight, apparently until the Klingons came to some kind of accord with them. Micheal: "We've encountered the Klingons. I killed one." Sarek: "In light of the fact that they killed your parents, some might think that only fair." Sarek speculates that there is some kind of great unifier in play.
Micheal goes back to the bridge and apparently nothing has been done in response to the ignition of the Klingon object. What it is, what it's doing, what they're doing about it, goes completely unmentioned. FO tells the Captain that they need to immediately open fire because "A Klingon threat is always imminent, and inevitable," but the Captain reasonably replies that not only are they outgunned, but that the ship in question hasn't powered up weapons or taken any aggressive action. Despite the apparently muh privileged nature of the information Sarek gave her, Micheal blurts out this history of Klingon/Vulcan interaction. "They said 'hello' in a language the Klingons understood. Violence brought respect. Respect brought peace." Wew, this lady is just a powerhouse of logic. I can see why Sarek dotes on her while giving that loser Spock the cold shoulder.
To all this the captain says "if their intention is to attack, balling up our fists won't change anything." What this is supposed to mean I can't even begin to fathom. There's no need for this long, dramatic exchange. Captain Phillippa was expressly ordered by the admiral to not engage unless fired upon first. Micheal seems to think she can just logic her way around that and convince her captain to disobey a direct order.
Then a bunch of really stupid things happen. CP dismisses FO with a curt "that is all, number one," and FO sasses her back. Whatever the rest of the bridge is supposed to be doing apparently isn't important enough for them to not stop and gawk at mommy and daddy having an argument. Then, like two thespians in a particularly juicy role, they stand whispering to each other about the logic or illogic of firing first. Captain tries to get her to calm her tits, assuming (correctly IMO) that she's still suffering from the severe concussion she received earlier. Michael tries not to cry, and the two draw close for a moment. FO then grabs the captain's neck, and the captain goes down.
With a total lack of composure or subterfuge, Micheal returns to the bridge and orders the crew to begin preparations to fire on the Klingons. No one buys it, and Saru, once again, displays that he's the only one with a functioning brain as he starts to question FO. Saru asks if these are the wishes of the captain. FO tries to force the point by appealing to the chain of command that she herself publicly violated not more than five minutes before. Saru accuses her of mutiny. Right as they're about to fire photon torpedoes on the Klingon ship, the captain emerges onto the bridge and points a phaser at Michael. Maybe she suffered her own concussion, because she chose to do this stupid thing instead of calling for security, but apparently that is a section that doesn't seem to exist on this ship.
The beacon shuts off and alarms start to blare as a large number of Klingon ships suddenly warp in. The camera zooms out to show the Shenzhou still right in front of the gigantic Klingon ship as a few dozen or so ships face off with them. Despite ostensibly being mired in internecine feuds and clan warfare, the entire high council has been summosed by this magic space beacon, somehow.
That turned out to be a lot longer than I thought it was going to be. At first I was just going to write down the parts that were stupid or didn't make sense or just weren't "Star Trek," but this whole fucking episode is a mess from start to finish. I hope this saves someone the trouble of watching it, or episode two, which is itself stupid in ways just as numerous and illogical and fucking retarded.
From an /strek/ thread, this is looking like cisbusters all over again.
This is probably a non-cultural relativist position regarding the culture of the Klingons. This isn't in any way incompatible with leftist thought. Socialism or barbarism, gomrade.
Power Ranking: TOS TNG DS9 TAS power gap Enterprise Voyager Fan Shit massive fuckoff power gap New Shit
those episodes were the worst case of Villain Decay for the Borg since they killed a one by pulling wires out of it in the Descent 2-parter
'deliberately offend existing traditions to flush out and make an example of rabble-rousers' seems to be a favorite of Porky when taking a fat shit all over good franchises. I think the idea's similar to kicking somebody's ass one's first day in prison or something. Oh boy another Mary Sue and/or Wesley, just what the fuck trekkies know and love! They were good and almost realistic in TOS where ships were just a blip on the radar and everything was BVR eggs-with-sledgehammers, good in TNG, varied in DS9, mostly sucked in Voyager oh look the shields went down to 30% with the third enemy volley like a bribed prizefighter better remodulate something or other through the main deflector, were pretty good in Enterprise, and were an incoherent mess of explosions, janky camerawork and lensflairs in the JarJar Abrams movies
TNG > TOS
She and Micheal teleport onto the enemy ship to try and capture Klingon Jesus His ship has been blown in half by this point and they're trying to take him as a POW. She gets killed almost immediately and Michael does the dumb thing and shoots him in a rage like a stupid moron. She demands Saru beam her and Phillippa back to their own disabled ship, but "I can't beam the captain out without a life sign." For some reason, only the captain and her first officer went, wearing only flak jackets and phaser pistols. Security is still absent.
Imo Michael is mad gay for her, which wouldn't really bother me if it wasn't handled in such a ridiculous way. We've seen characters behave in silly, illogical ways before, but Michael acts like her fucking brain is shut off.
This scene is followed immediately by Michael being tried for mutiny in a dark room by a shadow council of faceless officials as she tearfully confesses her guilt. She has no defender, none of her surviving shipmates are seen, no one speaks up in her defense, and despite implanting a shard of his soul in her brain, even Sarek isn't present.
It just gets more and more stupid. It suffers from the same Abrams shit, where no one actually talks or discusses anything. They just run from "plot" point to plot point and you're expected to just accept it as it happens. It's fucking trash.
what's a bunch of brainlet Holla Forumscucks doing watching star trek
You mean something Asser said that's confused by Holla Forums as something Hitler said? >>>/back/
Gotta love them wordfilters, eh boys?
It's both apt and annoys the id/pol/cuck brainlets.
This looks like one of those cases where the liberal ideology has overpowered business sense, which means that the studio probably gave minimal fucks about the thing (or expected controversy to provide a lot of free advertising).
Looks like some fans of star trek wanted to make a similar thing because they like the idea and have the money.
Idk m8, Adorno was right. Capitalist systems degrade art and culture the longer they persist.
What does this mean in the actual context of the scene? Is she referring to Klingons?
The face of the negress is an exact copy of the 'we waz kangz'/'my ancestor' picture of the muzzle staring up at the flat faced sphinx.
Maybe it is all being done as a joke.
If this was real Trek, this first encounter with the Klingons would have been a season in itself. Take all that TNG build up to the Borg for example. They hint at it and hint at it for, what, two seasons? Colonies get wiped out, subspace beacons relays go missing, lots of weird shit that no one can quite explain, but everyone suspects.
If Discovery weren't being helmed by hacks and morons, they would have started out similarly. Relays get trashed, sightings of a "ghost ship" of uncertain design, brush fires popping up all along the border that keeps Star Fleet running this way and that. Intersperse with scenes of T'kuvma building his power behind the scenes. He follows this prophecy and is building a network of support, convincing some houses to join him, subduing and destroying others. All the while he's got Voq (or whatever the albino's name is) searching for the Torch, which will be the keystone to cementing his boss's legitimacy.
Contrast that with developments at Star Fleet Command. They might be shown as benevolent, but out of touch. Maybe complacent even, a little hubristic. They're caught up in internal Federation politics. While the Empire is a fractured mass coalescing into a dangerous whole, show that SF is in danger of fracturing. Show that there is discontent with the system in part or in whole.
Meanwhile, Voq is searching for the torch. While his boss is occupied with uniting his coalition, Voq is busy needling and manipulating the Federation, sending them on wild goose chases to keep them distracted while he pokes around, looking for the Torch.
As he's doing this, the Shenzhou is one of the ships assigned to the region to settle all the dust Voq or stirring up. They know something is up, but they aren't sure what yet. They keep hearing rumors about a legendary ghost ship terrorizing the settlers and colonies of the area. Since the Feddies are moving in, maybe it's raising tensions between the native races and the Fed races. You could have scenes in Voq preaching his master's rhetoric about Federation infection and enslavement. Some believe it, some suspect it to be true, but everyone is put on edge.
This sets up the Federation to, you know, act like the Federation, and do all that good shit, overcoming xenophobic fear with their philosophy of cooperation and progress. Some they when over, some side with the Klingons, most remain neutral.
At some point, the Shenzhou realizes what's up and has to race against Voq and T'kuvma to get to the Torch. They're delayed by some humanitarian crisis (maybe Voq left some kind of bomb or biological agent behind that will wipe out some colony of they don't intervene) and arrive just too late. They warp in, T'kuvma gloats about impending Klingon glory, and activates the Torch. The High Council recognizes him as their God-Emperor, Kahless Reborn, and he immediately declares all out war on the Federation. Everyone looks to Michael, who in turn looks to Phillipa, who looks stricken. "Captain, incoming message from Star Fleet, priority one." Cut back to Star Fleet Command as the assembled admirals and politicians are struck silent as they gaze up at a holographic map of Federation space as red dots begin to pour in from all sides and panicked report after panicked report comes in. Cut to black, end of season one.
To be honest I'm really not sure, because there isn't really any dialogue so much as people saying things at each other. I think she's trying to say that Klingons aren't inherently violent monsters (which Worf and others prove), but that their culture is violent and warlike and that the proper response is to respond to them in a violent, warlike way. It's kind of ironic, because she's right in this instance, this would be the right, Star Fleet thing to do but because Star Fleet has to be run by idiots for the plot to work (Michael included), they both ignore Klingon culture, and seem to think that the only options are complete, unprovoked annihilation of the Klingons or passive tolerance.
If this were being handled by any other captain, what would have happened was that they would have told them to either identify themselves and state their intentions, or leave. If not, they'll open fire. The only excuse is that Captain Phillipa was obeying a direct order, but that doesn't make everything that everyone dies in this encounter any less retarded.
Okay, just saw the first 2 episodes of STD and the first 3 episodes of The Orville.
As for STD, agreed with this multipost synopsis, it is such steaming garbage. I will add that aside from the massive violation of Federation principles, general moronity of all the characters, and excessive Star Wars-ness, the next greatest problem:
The dialog/characterization is just AWFUL, every single moment of soundtrack is packed with meaningless filler banter between these characters that that the audience knows nothing about, because of this styrofoam packing peanut dialog all backstory has to be conveyed through CONSTANT flashback sequences, all of the characters spend so much time complementing each other on what hot shit they all are (to shill them to the viewer, without them demonstrating this supposed competence) between bouts of vacuous catty personal sniping, if I had to sum it up in a word, it would be that this feels like the post-DA1/ME2 character "writing" Bioware's new Tumblrina diversity hire interns churn out.
Also, to nitpick on the specific point of the Klingons making a big deal of corpses, that MASSIVELY contradicts the belief of Klingons in prior Star Trek, where they regard corpses as worthless empty shells.
Now, as for The Orville. Aside from one VERY LARGE FLAW, I would rate it as pretty decent, if TOS/TNG were 9/10, and Galaxy Quest/Futurama were an 8/10, this would be 7/10. The characters are funny, the mood is right, the writing is uneven but sometimes surprisingly clever (for instance, while I thought the trial in episode 3 was poorly written for the most part, the identity of the witness at the finale was a genuinely touching stroke of genius, and the fact that everything ended amicably in spite of their barely losing the trial was refreshingly evenhanded writing for a Current Year™ show). Now, that large flaw? The two lead characters are a divorced couple patching their relationship back together, and their domestic brawl eats up what feels like half the screentime of each episode, it is annoying, wedged in totally inappropriate scenes, unfunny, and goes absolutely nowhere. Fortunately, it also feels very unnecessary, and will hopefully be excised from future episodes.
They're the wreckage of the SJW crusade against culture. Now that even the most subtle and artistically sophisticated works of leftist advocacy have been refashioned into blunt instruments of hamhanded screeching autism, their centrist and rightist fans are left marooned in a maelstrom of hostility. As a result, they either disavow ever having enjoyed what they like, or turn into self-hating cucks, because they lack the knowledge or willingness to distinguish between actual leftism and insane shitlibs.
Her boss's boss had just called her a racist during a meeting, she's trying to damage-control the resulting asshurt. Probably the only self-aware scene in both episodes.
I don't even know if I'd call it "dialogue." Characters mostly talk at each other, but it's not like an idea is being developed, or something is being discussed, or information exchanged. It's just grease to keep the scenes grinding along from one stupid action set piece to the other.
I'd forgotten about that, but I can kind of forgive it because Bubba Hotep seems to be outside the Klingon mainstream. If it were explained as some kind of splinter religion or throwback, I think it would be fine, especially since the inevitable defeat of this crusade would explain why we don't see it again. It could already be on the fringes off Klingon society, and then is even further delegitimized by its failure to destroy the Federation.
But more than that, it's kind of pissing me off that the writers are playing fast and loose with the canon and lore. I don't mind if they change or retcon things if they make sense (good writing generally should be filling in blanks, not scribbling over pre existing material), but this mostly seems like dumb and lazy work by hacks that were never interested in Star Trek to begin with.
Balance of Terror is one of my favorite episodes. It's really silly in parts (that idiot that thinks Spock is a Romulan spy, everyone being silent to not be heard through space), but I think it succeeds in making space warfare tense and exciting, where every shot counts and it's more about guile and trickery than who has the bigger guns. I think it's emblematic of the writers' ineptitude that the only way they seem to be able to convey that the antagonist is scary and threatening is by giving him a big, powerful, spooky looking ship.
So The Orville is pretty much McFarlane's Rick and Morty, except parodying Star Trek instead of Back to the Future?
What is it with showrunners and thinking people give a fuck about fictionalized versions of their stupid personal lives?
The whole non-interference thing really chaps my ass though. All those societies with problems that could be solved in a generation or two, but they have to let them struggle because of muh rules.
They run out of interesting plots and have to become more insular. I was thinking the other day one that wrote themselves into this corner the worst is Archer, which made all the main characters indispensable and for the most part didn't have any plots carrying over, so it was just a matter of time until they did personal relationship episodes and when that started to run dry eventually they had to start doing gimmick seasons. Should have killed them off at a pace like Frisky Dingo tbh.
Superior? Maybe. Still better than excrement? Highly unlikely.
I thought the same thing since it was associated with Seth Macfarlane, but it turned out to be pretty alright. It captured the Star Trek charm and feel way better than Discovery did.
But how could an outsider know what is right for someone else? That same sort of mindset is what leads to interventionism for sake of imperialism.
stop it, don't do this to me
Civilizations have to evolve on their on. If they simply receive "a gift from the skies" they'll most likely just end up destroying themselves in the end. Another problem is that when an advanced civilization meets with a primitive one things like the Spaniards and Aztecs might repeat again.
cultural capitalism of the neoliberal age
Heh, someone hasn't read Posadas.
In TOS without the non-interference principle you get societal proxy wars between space fairing super civilizations that you have no hope of resisting.
The Enterprise stops at this planet, because Kirk had spent some time living there with some stone-age tribe, basically space-indians. They come to find out that the Klingons have been there too in the mean time, and have been rapidly advancing one tribe, and not the others. I want to say that they took one really weak tribe, and then started giving them metal weapons, then cross bows, and when the Enterprise arrives, muskets. The society Kirk had known was gone, because the Klingons were encouraging this tribe, you know, "Your tribe was weak because others feared you, they banished you to the mountains because you're so great, go get revenge," etc. So they do, and everyone else doesn't know what the fuck. Their most complex mechanical implement is a bow and arrow, and they've been completely helpless in the face of this awesome, unknowable technology.
So, damage done. If the Federation doesn't intervene, the Klingons will win a planet without themselves ever firing a shot. Worse still, there's no other power on this planet capable of resisting these people with their boom sticks. It'd either be enslavement or genocide.
So what can Kirk do? He starts giving the other tribes muskets, because without them, they'll be annihilated. They're already doomed, though, because all of this is only going to lead to endless war with increasingly sophisticated technology millennia beyond their understanding. Today it's muskets, then it's matchlocks, cannon, breech loaders, howitzers, all the way up to phasers and photon torpedoes. Millions, if not billions, are likely to die in the ensuing conflict.
I feel you though. It is hard to justify not intervening when you have the panacea that will make all the bad shit go away. A plague is killing millions, and all they need is a drop of penicillin and millions more will be saved. One race is ethnically genociding another, but one of your phasers would vaporize their entire army. Through no fault of their own, the people are trapped on a planet with a dying sun whose death throes will incinerate their entire planet, and you can transport them to a practically identical world with minimal effort.
The knife cuts both ways, but by taking those pieces off the board entirely, they might be sparing innumerable lives in the process.
It's a real shame there isn't more of that kind of space combat on TV. Pretty much the only other thing I've seen focused on that is the anime Starship Operators, written by the same author as Lodoss War.
No shit? I'll have to check it out. What'd you think of it?
I heard that Battlestar Galactica have some sick combats based on "realism" but I have never watched it so I don't know if it is true.
Excellent, sublimely realistic SF, tactics are cunning, the reality TV twist is hilarious. About the only real weaknesses it has are that the dialog is slightly dry (though quite refined), a lot of the supporting characters are moe stereotypes, and one character makes a pointless sacrifice in the finale.
haha, what the hell. I can't wait to watch it.
Hitler regularly stole Asserist slogans when pandering to the masses. Goebbels himself was initially backing the left of the Nazi party. Remember that hitler was a politician. Just because he was on the side of porkies doesn't mean he was open about it.
sage for offtopic derail-y post
I seriously hoped the show would make up for all the canon-breaking shit with a good story, writing, and characters. Instead it's garbage, with a handful of good things, but none of it redeems the fact that the pilot was absolute trash. If they somehow salvage the rest of the series, it will be a miracle.
Encounter at Farpoint is pretty crap but TNG turned out okay. M-maybe this won't suck as hard as the first two eps did?
The Orville is the best show i've seen in years.
I'll keep watching, but currently this is Star Trek now, especially after tonight's episode.
This is really the worst timeline possible. Holy shit, I just want to die now.
What the fuck. That's probably the most extreme difference I've ever seen. Do you think that maybe they paid reviewers to shit on their competition?
I don't doubt it.
The blurbs are almost the same they aren't even trying anymore
She was ambushed
It was a pretty shitty ambush considering he just stood there until she noticed him.
Lol, watched the first episode of Orville last night. It wasn't bad, but I can't stop hearing Brian's voice whenever MacFarlane talks. The relationship shit is ridiculous too (and of course it's his "fault" she cheated on him), but it's the pilot, so everyone has to act way overblown to establish their characters. It still doesn't really compare to Star Trek at all, but it has the potential to not be completely stupid.
in the next few episodes they tone down the Seth McFarland humor a lot, the last two episodes felt just like straight up TNG episodes
not the best written I will say, but I honestly am finding it more enjoyable than Voyager, which isn't nothing
I was told on the show when someone asked the captain if he could drink soda on the bridge
I mean the show is obviously shitty in both pacing and story-telling but the scene did play out with him swinging first, that's all I'm saying
The new show is such a meme that the Klingons initiate their engagement by basically attacking them with a giant lens flare
Jesus christ, just hire the Axanar guys.
Liberals please stop destroying everything I love.
I'm fucking dead
I feel you. I'm just intensely bitter at Discovery because I love Star Trek, and STD is raping its corpse.
That's good. I had a feeling that would happen, but having hope is the first step to disappointment.
On another note, I've been wondering if it were really possible for STD to turn out any other way, because making an actual ST would mean creating high budget, dissonant propaganda against the very things that the media want to protect and support in modern society. It's inconvenient to have a noble, moral character to condemn the injustice of torture, or preemptive strikes, or racism, etc, when the status quo is reliant on all those things.
I don't know why everyone feels the need to shit on Enterprise. Billingsley's Phlox was one of the best characters presented on the shows, Jeffrey Combs was a semi regular and Regeneration is probably the best action Trek episode ever made.
That's because Brian was always a self-insert and MacFarlane just didn't do a funny voice for him.
Aside from all of the trailer bearing no resemblance to Star Trek, this completely threw me. What the fuck?
You know, Mudd. He's integral to the Star Trek mythos and isn't at all a retarded gag character.
Better still, in the season-trailer at the end of Ep 2 he has a line where he basically calls Star Fleet a bunch of elitists and says something about the normal people of the galaxy having enough.
My prediction is he's going to be a conman swindling a bunch of colonists by talking some populist shit, and the moral is going to be that anyone that promises to make your life better is the real exploiter. Now get back to work space-prole. Benevolent Technocratic Liberals Star Fleet knows what's good for you, because if you're allowed to make a choice of course you'll make the wrong one :^)
look man I feel the same way, I'm 32 and lived and breathed Star Trek my whole life, I'm ashamed how much I know about the trek universe. I'm telling you, STD isn't Trek as I grew up with, despite the shitty episodes and some shitty movies and the over-actioning that was pushed into it on many occasions. Somehow Macfarlane has picked up and ran with the ball that CBS threw to the fucking floor, the show is corny and seriously 90s, but I'm enjoying it despite that. If this is what I have to settle with until either Paramount or CBS get their heads out of their collective assholes, so be it.
Atm I'm not sure quite how to put it, but the failure of old ST and… "new ST" are qualitatively different somehow.
I'm 3 episodes in to the Orville and
was right in that the first episode's tone diminishes and does seem to become more like Star Trek. It even sounds like Star Trek sometimes. The episode about the alien sex-change was kinda hammy and a little obvious, but it wasn't this soulless, cynical farce that I was expecting.
I think what still bothers me about it is that it seems to be lacking ST's idealism in some degree. Maybe not its idealism, I'm not sure. This sex change episode looked and sounded like a ST ep, but for some reason it felt hollow. When Picard gets up on his high horse and rants about the fundamental rights of all living beings nandemo nandemo nandemo I can believe it, but coming from MacFarlane's mouth I guess I can't help but feel like I'm waiting for a punchline that's going to deflate everything he just said.
wew Tuffaut was right.
I try not to be overtly cynical but did no one else notice all the political subtext of the new show? the new Klingons are a caricature of contemporary right wing populism/right wing antiglobalism, in that they are afraid of being forcefully assimilated into the Federation and lose their muh culture, so they respond with battle cries of "Stay Klingon!". Now replace Klingon with Stay German or Stay Polish or even, gasp Stay white and perhaps you'll see what I mean.
Now of course I'm not going full Holla Forumstard here and say it is a deliberate conspiracy to cuck the white man or whatever, I just find it amusing how the show reflects -even if it was unconscious- the concerns of the liberal technocratic elite, you can expect an episode -and I'm calling it now- in which they meet space Asad (who of course likes to gas space babies because of course he does) and Captain Michael Phelps or whatever her name is straight out utters "Asad must go!"
Klingon used to be the Japs, and Imperial Japan used to be isolationist for a period of time. Don't see any contradiction.
Isn't Michael a male's name? It'll be funny if in the future it's reveled that the main character is a transwoman for maximum liberal points.
At least her eyes are both the same color
Sweet Jesus, just reading the descriptions of STD makes me barf. I can't believe something so shit can possibly exist, let alone be Trek. I mean, they literally created a Mary Sue for fuck's sake.
Can't they just hire all the Axanar people, tell them to make whatever they like, and sell it as official Trek? They don't even need high production values, just something that isn't total shit.
Good, IMO, Defiant and miranda are also erection-worthy
Apparently, there is no singular "Trek." Through the magic of intellectual property, you've got the Old Trek and the shitty Abrams New Trek. If CBS were to make any Old Trek, they'd have to pay Paramount a bunch of money (for some reason… I thought they were both owned by Viacom?).
It's an effed up ridiculous mess and because of it we probably won't see a real Trek again for a long time (though maybe not so long if this trash STD crashes and burns.
It's not even about intellectual property rights necessarily. They can redesign and rename Klignons or create a new baddie race, make new uniforms. Proper Trek is socialist, even if they have to hide their powerlevel to get on air. Discovery is straight up neoliberal garbage. It's like they took the biggest possible shit on everything Star Trek is supposed to be about just for the sake of ruining something that was good and decent. I'd prefer a series full of low-Voyager-tier episodes to this garbage.
IMO that's a big part of the reason that we won't see a "classic" Trek. It conflicts with the currently prevailing propaganda values that are necessary to maintain the status quo.
Miranda-class I could never get past the torpedo tubes being directly above the bridge. Defiant's cool tho. Ambassador-class needs more love, honestly the show should have used that design for TNG's Enterprise. Galaxy-class always seemed over-streamlined to me. Most other Starfleet stuff looks more modular, which I think makes better sense from a background perspective. McQuarryprise sketches need to be used for something too like they did with the early Defiant for the Nova-class.
They want to still have a franchise without having to be internally-consistent or acknowledge that shit that'd be dated, hokey, triggering to [insert usually-dingbat group here], or as others mentioned, that would make their Porky masters look bad. They should just do gaiden or acknowledge it as AH, but that wouldn't shit on the old fans so they can replace us with normies, who are more malleable, usually spend more on dumber shit, and are less tech-savvy and therefore more DLC/DRM/datamine-able.
tbh I wouldn't even care if it were generic shooty shooty sf. I just don't like shitting on everything Trek and casting Starfleet as literally Burgerland in Space, and again they made a fucking Mary Sue just to rub it in.
There are plenty of decent anti-Treks out there - Farscape, BG was okay from what little I watched. I just don't like them taking a giant steaming dump on the series for the sake of neoliberalism.
I could never get into Farscape, what's the draw?
I'm not a super Farscape fan but it was good enough for me to watch on Fridays when it aired. It had quite a few Mind Fuck eps, especially when Scorpy plants his neural clone into Crichton and it hit a pretty good balance of "serial" episodes and ordinary "one-off" eps that still tied to the main storyline. Season 1 is really iffy, it doesn't really hit its' stride until the introduction of Scorpius and Chiana. I didn't really like the introduction of new characters in season 4 that was kinda forced on the show by management; I think if the writers weren't forced to include young female cast members they could have done a lot more interesting things. Plus the series finale (not counting PK wars was like a giant moody "fuck you Syfy for cancelling us, we're going to take it out on the fans and make them miserable just so they'll demand a miniseries".)
I probably wouldn't have got into it if I actually did things on Fridays, but because I had nothing to do it kinda grew on me. It helped that I got in around season 2, and my brother could explain the back episodes and the series' universe.
For what it's worth I actually like TNG Seasons 1 and 2. I dunno why but I like the ridiculousness of some of the episodes, even if they are recycled TOS scripts. The only really low points are the total butchering of the Ferengi as soon as they arrived, and killing off Yar just because the actress wanted to quit. I can even sorta like Code of Honor, even tho it's racist as fuck (and apparently the director of that episode was dickish to the cast and crew, so he was never hired again apparently).
It's fun action-adventure sci-fi. The characters are mostly enjoyable and there are some neat stories. I think if you enjoyed TOS at all, then you'll enjoy Farscape.
Marry me, someone else thinks the galaxy class is overrated. ambassador class would've been awesome. I really want a clone wars-esque animated series about what the enterprise E was doing in the dominion war
Did anyone watched the third episode of STD? What a pile of shit, jesus christ.
hoo boy what'd we miss?
>The galaxy is surrounded and bound together, through the power of 'SHROOOOOOOMS! I wish I was making this up
I watched it and thought there was absolutely no tension at all, just boring. I hate how they make the Federation grimdark and shit, with a sociopathic warmonger as starship captain and all that.
Also, absolutely disgusting how fully automated space communism has like an intensive prison network with penal labor colonies and shit.
imagine thinking your movement can attract anybody when its this fucking lame
TOS even had an episode specifically about how the Federation had left that all behind, even for the worst psychopaths, Dagger of the Mind.
Don't you know? It's more realistic™ that way. Everybody knows that communism is a silly fantasy, user! If you were to make a literary deconstruction of a communist society and apply it to reality, it would just be a strawman of the USSR. That is why the Federation is the way it is in Discovery: neoliberal shining beacons of democracy are the most utopian societies humanity can ever achieve.
I hate everything about this. Specifically though I hate >And we have to win the war. For Starfleet, the only way to "win" is to bring the war to as swift a close as possible. It's wrong for him to think about it in terms of winning or losing. Instead it should be about stopping the war. "Winning the war" is going to mean tens of billions of people are going to die, on both sides. For the Federation, every life lost is a defeat. Of course, Star Fleet will and should fight, but to bring a stable and lasting peace as quickly as possible.
I don't have anything to say about the spores. I can't even begin to articulate how stupid and wrong all that bullshit is.
They have replaced science fiction with magic. In the pilot, Sarek was telepathically communicating over half the galaxy which would make Vulcan brain waves one stronger than a fucking nuke.
In terms of unseen eras with familiar faces, I'd like to see the years Picard commanding the Stargazer, or even a Horation Hornblower-kinda thing that follows his career up to the point he takes command of the Enterprise. Also if they have to do the touchscreens which overall were a mistake they should stick with the blue/green combo from that era.
Man, all that expensive cgi to tell such a crappy story.
Episode three feels like one of those episodes where the captain has to go track down some other captain it admiral that went rogue and space crazy, and we're with this mirror universe lunatic babbling about how spores are the key to beating the Klingons.
Wow, Discovery is starting to look like Hillary Clinton's campaign with the smugness and utter disregard of Trekkies they show. Good lord.
Well I mean every Trek series after TNG has gotten more and more militaristic. Discovery is just the next logical step.
according to some random scuttlebutt I read blame Fox for hearing/reading the pitch for Babylon 5, turning it down and then totally coincidentally making DS9. I'm not sure TNG's more militaristic than TOS since 1701-D had civies aboard although again I hear this was due to compromise with the network not wanting to go with the original idea of 1701-D being a long-range exploration generation ship because they wanted familiar stuff like Klingons
There so few investment opportunities for capitalists these days its not hard to believe they could spend 100 million dollars to shit on the idea of socialism in the minds of a new generation.
DS9 and B5 were both shown in syndication, back when that was a thing. I dunno how much Fox had to do with anything, I think B5 was pitched to Paramount directly and DS9 basically ripped plot points from B5 wholesale while trying to add its own twists.
I don't fault Discovery for being militaristic or grimdark. I fault it for going out of its way to shit on Trek and write such a shitty, no-good story that can't stand on its own, and I fault the creators of Discovery for treating their audience like total idiots. Whatever bad things you can say about DS9 - there are good and bad things about it - at least it didn't assume the viewer was a moron.
Haven't seen Discovery but agreed re: DS9. Does Holla Forums have any good discussion about this, or is it still plebs n Holla Forumsyps?
Kek that's a much better episode.
Which makes me think, if they wanted to make a Trek that was this grimdark and militaristic, why not make a Trek show set entirely in the mirror universe?
Shit, maybe it is and that's the twist.
that might actually be cool
Y'all should see the pro-discovery shills all over social media insulting fans and implying they're sinners or whatever I think theyre actually, legitimately trying to use this show as propaganda holy fuck
I gave up about 10 minutes into ep 2. Is it still basically neocon propaganda?
Watching ep 3 that's the impression I got when the captain just press ganged Michael into working for him.
Holy shit, the dialogue in this episode.
From what I've seen it just gets worse.
Mankind can never achieve its destiny weighed down by gravity.
Where were you when the Federation used a domesticated gigantic spacebug to fuel a teleportarion device made out of mushrooms to win a war against religious lunatics?
Where were you when the Federation blew up a perfectly functional space ship because a bug was in it while being in the middle of an interstellar war?
I hated everything about episode 3.
I hate Michael's character most of all, because I really liked the idea of a human trying to live by Vulcan values. I always thought that you would see more of that kind of thing, and I was always a little disappointed that we never got to see a monastery colony of humans trying to learn from the Vulcan example and devoting themselves to logic, or that kind of thing. It would have been tricky to differentiate it from Spock and him choosing between his Vulcan and Human nature, but I think it could be done.
Michael just uses her Vulcan upbringing to either act like a rude asshole or to justify her ridiculously illogical behavior. Fuck you, transwarp!
Discovery was the best thing to ever happen to Enterprise and Voyager. At least now they won't go down in history as the worst ST series ever.
That triggers me very much, not because the show sucks neoliberal cock this hard, but because it makes no sense within the Trek universe and its chronology of how the 20th and 21st century played out.
Sweet Klingon Jesus, Discovery just finds every way to get worse. I'm glad I'm not wasting money on that shit.
Waiting for the next ep of Orville to post online. At least that show is watchable.