Rojava General: SDF vs SAA?

t. Recep Tayip "Dicklip" Erdogan

The only reason there is conflict right now is because of the oil. That's it. Every time there's been a line drawn. Hasaka, Tabqa, especially in Manbij. Once the oil fields are taken, it'll cool down.

test

theyre at the peak of their strenght and both FSA and ISIS are currently below being able to launch offensives. however if they did start a conflic they risk giving another excuse to the US for staying in syria

R.I.Piss imperialist puppets

I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say my main reason but I'll hint at it with pic related.

My secondary reason is that I want the Syrian and Rojavan Revolutions squashed by the glorious Assadist Reaction, and the ISIS scumbags routed by forces that protect Christian rights in Syria. We can't have our people hanging from crosses. I'd say that ISIS was my #1 priority as their genocides made me very angry at first, but at this point, to be honest, they've just killed so many I doubt they'll be able to slaughter more.

Oh shit nigger I didn't notice.

But fortunately I already posted it so it's OK.

The SAA-SDF conflict is coming but it's projected to be limited to the DeZ region for the time being. In other words, their current forces fighting ISIS will need to be reinforced more to fight the SDF once they reach each other.

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Bookchin=/=SDF

He’s a socialist.

Also, yes, I support the legitimate President Maduro of Venezuela in his struggles against the pro-American MUD.

If you think the SAA is working with the FSA you’re an idiot. The Syrian Air Force is practically becoming Anti-Idlib Action.

thats about the same as saying SDF and IS work together against SAA.
also note that idlib "rebels" and turk pocket rebels arent the same thing

stupid fucking ex-FSA brigades are going to fuck this whole thing up. YPG should start looking for a way out of the SDF, but it's probably too late now that Ankara and Damascus are BFFs now. they had a chance during Euphrates Shield to get on the right side. now they're fucked.

The PKK is taking active measures through the internationally recognised and respected 'Geneva Call' to investigate and deal with underage recruitment. This usually means taking the 300-400 undeage recruits they do have and moving them to non-combat/support roles away from battle zones but often maintaining military training (which is legal under international law)

genevacall.org/country-page/turkey/
genevacall.org/major-kurdish-armed-movement-commits-protection-children-armed-conflict/
genevacall.org/turkey-monitoring-hpgpkks-prohibition-using-children-hostilities/

This PKK leader's statement, who is active with the Yezidi YBS in Shingal, sums up the modern situation;

twitter.com/CizireCanton/status/910889876001890304

RAQQA LIBERATION ANNOUNCEMENT IMMINENT. DAESH COLLAPSING.

YOU ARE HERE

The SDF hasn't connected the cantons yet though.

die.

STOP HAVING FUN

if the SDF drives out Assad, it will be with the help of the US. do you really want the US to destroy syria?

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Truth be told; the US has an interest in a SDF struggle against the Syrian Gov. I truly hate Assad but that does not change the US' ambitions.
Cooperation with the government is the only hope for Rojava.
PS; is that your OC? It's prtty good.

reddit.com/r/syriancivilwar/comments/71kadb/pentagon_press_briefing_asked_about_recent/
Yes

well the point behind SDF isnt to battle the syrian forces, but to hold a large part of syria hostage.
besides from the obvious strategic and resource motivations here the US would also have a big bargaining chip and a prospect of a new pipeline in case they decide to back the sunnis in western iraq in the upcoming civil war, but they would need turkey on the deal aswell, which is reasonably unlikely

They themselves claim to be part of Syria and only seek autonomy within it. Are tankies this retarded?

and here is why your idea is dumb. Why would the US want Rojava to be a part of the Qatar–Turkey pipeline when Turkey wouldn't be on board?
Additionally, I want to point out that US has made no move to diplomatically recognise Rojava in any fashion; only military agreements. So if the US want to create a separatist puppet state in Syria; why are they so against diplomatic recognition? Also, why is it that Russia is the one who does all the diplomatic recognition of Rojava?

This guy gets it. Being a puppet entails more then just a military alliance. It requires economic and political dependency more so then anything else

Good by ISIS.

Reference to the connection of kobane and cizre a ways back, not afrin.

ayyy lmao

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this shit in deir ezzor is depressing man. why cant we all just get along

OIL
I
L

usatoday.com/story/news/world/2017/09/21/isis-caliphate-near-collapse-most-raqqa-taken-u-s-backed-forces/686593001/

Whats going to happen to them when they are no longer useful :(

Negotiations and fighting with Turkey and FSA. They are already starting to move upon Afrin again, and Idlib.

twitter.com/SyriaGeneral/status/911303258458685441

its fucking over, folks.

Doesn't seem confirmed yet.

i hope it was just the ex-FSA bandits that the US is forcing the YPG to work with and they can be simply thrown under the bus

FAKE NEWS

Or it's a mistake and they thought they were retreating Daesh. Either way let's not jump to conclusions.

i hope so. syrian nationalist twitter is baying for blood (as usual).

retreating…towards them?

They're more or less surrounded on the SAA controlled side of the river. Don't know where it is but maybe they though they could escape to Daesh held territory.

theres a deconfliction hotline to prevent exactly this from happening. best hope is fake news because mistake is unlikely

does anybody know who the fuck these guys are?

washingtonpost.com/amphtml/world/middle_east/syrian-kurds-vote-as-part-of-move-toward-federal-system/2017/09/22/192205f4-9f7e-11e7-b2a7-bc70b6f98089_story.html

Nope twitter.com/SyriaGeneral/status/911345662561849345

Hopeful /ourguys/ will win the elections.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Socialist_Arab_Ba'ath_Party

pretty sure those are some jewish guys

Unlikely

well if they are is, those 18 dudes are putting in a hell of a work.

Apparently there is a Kurdish communist party that participates in TEV-DEM but I can't find any information about it.

Is that the Yarmouk Valley? Because there are like villages and towns of self-armed black people there (indigenous).

twitter.com/BarzanSadiq/status/911208749402116098

The PKK really can't give a fuck.

Did anything interesting happen with the elections?

PKK did nothing wrong.

LITERALY nothing. Its a top tier guerrilla force.
What do Assad-cucks think of the PKK? Its clearly a sister org to the YPG and is more than just allied with Rojava, but its condemned by the US and other Coalition forces.

PKK was greatly supported by the Syrian government under Hafez al-Assad until Turkey forced them apart in 1998.

aslong as the US wants to keep the petrodollar up theyre useful.

a frankly absurd of the "child" soldiers are teenage girls actively avoiding a forced marriage because its the only socially acceptable way to avoid a forced marriage, clearly no one in their community considers them a child

Bad news phams.
IS ambushed US-SDF convoy going from Hasakah to deir ezzor and it looks ugly.
mobile.twitter.com/MorocanArab/status/911642046804439040

the guy that was beaten by erdogan's guards is doing an AMA. he is also a former YPG.

lots of turks on suicide watch in the comments too

reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/71yl62/i_am_the_first_protestor_to_be_violently_attacked/

Which one of you faggots did this?

They were great Marxist-Leninists and aligned with the Syrian government, so why wouldn't we support them? You would have to be supremely infantile to think that opposition to Kurdish groups that host an American imperialist military presence means you must oppose all Kurds.

the PKK isnt ML anymore tho, and the YOG and PYD are pretty much the Syrian wing of the PKK.

The PKK since their ideological shift should be viewed more critically.

Red flag posters used to be great, now they're almost always sectarians and/or Holla Forums

this pic is stupid.
you still need commodity production when you have as much scarcity as the Kurds do.
not to mention they don't even have a ruling class so it is this stateless.

How, they still have privet property

twitter.com/muhammadalwaeli/status/911961713599238144

autistic screeching in 3, 2, 1…

What do YPG supporters think of the independence referendum in Iraqi Kurdistan?

I have this acking feeling it's can prolong and escalate the conflict in the middle east. Makes me wonder if Damascus and the Baghdad will ally against both Kurdish groups and fight another war with support from Turkey. Either way it will change the balance of power in the region.

more on this

southfront.org/heading-to-another-war-iraqi-government-asks-kurdistan-regional-government-to-hand-over-border-crossings-and-airports/

twitter.com/AylinaKilic/status/912238247945932805

Judgement day is here boyo.

Fucking wew

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>supporting a fascist Russian puppet-regime against socialist insurrection that has also accepted aid from Russia because they're "anti-imperialist"

i dont support assad just because im against imperialism
its because what the kurds want to do will make ALL peoples lives objectively worse in the area
nice meme

b t w
pick one

pick one

You don't know enough to have any authority to talk about this.

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You don't know enough to have any authority to talk about this.

everyone calls it rojava mate get real

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its not socialism
its not syndicalism
a large amount of groups involved are open kurdish nationalist even its name is a kurdish nationalist concept
You don't know enough to have any authority to talk about this.

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Are assadcucks this retarded or are you just trolling

Show me when they called it "Rojava" during the recent elections.

its literally not socialism or syndicalism

it was called that during the elections because that was an official event outside of that it has basically never been called that

Assadcucks are sad

what the fuck ever then mate
the "DFNS" is going to be gone in a few months anyhow so whatever

Screencapped. How many months do you bet?

Jesus how many times do we have to go over this?
If this isn't socialism then neither was the program Marx proposed in the manifesto.
literally been saying that for years

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I wonder what would be the reaction if Rojava does end up gone.

The war is ending after all, and Rojava only has a chance because of destabilized Syria.

Much the same was said of the KRG in Iraq, yet it persisted through a decade of zero on-the-ground support.

Literally every revolution comes about through destabilization of the current status quo. I would be saddened by it, but I don't see that as happening anytime soon

The conditions that brought it into power are not inherently necessary for its continuation. If anything stabilization might strengthen Rojava because it allows them to move resources away from the military towards rebuilding and developing their economy.

let me clarify by stating that I have no illusions regarding the abolishment of markets or commodities in DFSNS. They've done neither, but it's not as if Marx or anyone but the most infantile of leftcoms proposes that should happen overnight

good.

gg

you mean like all of rojava general threads so far?

So several sources claim RuAf bombed SDF positions.

Wouldn't be the first time. Wonder if they're going to deny it again

like how the US said they accidentally bombed SAA defences at DeZ for two hours while ignoring russian and syrian notifications, and then conviniently letting the IS to launch their offensive just as planned?

Not him but clearly it's not stateless.
It just happens to also have a dual power.

it's just lend lease or getting money like the bolsheviks!

ITS LITERALLY THE SAME STOP TRIGGERING ME

What's the ralationship between KDP and YPG/J guys/girls?

ISIS are on their last legs but how long does everyone feel the war itself is going to last? I can't see Turkey backing down anytime soon

lies. They want a decentralized Syria with a Kurdish autonomous zone.

Russia denied that they bombed them.

Call me crazy but at the rate of current offenses I don’t think ISIS will be in Syrian (except that one pocket on the Israeli border) by 2018.

Why then is an Arab tribe leader the co-president of the executive committee?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mansur_Selum

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraqi_Kurdistan_Parliament

Way isn’t there a Democratic Confedralist party in Iraqi Kurdistan?

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because they need one for PR

I think you're right. The SDF took a field a couple of days ago at der ez-zor. The US is clearly pointing the SDF at these targets but I wonder what their endgame is? Do they intend to hand all their gainz to the Kurds? What of the non-kurds in the SDF? I guess te US is just looking for something to take to the table but with the Kurds pushing south te stage is set for another scrap sooner or later.

Russia has officially bombed the SDF.
I imagine it's a bit awkward for those stationed in Afrin.

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You mean like how the Ba'athist party calls itself socialist?

be careful you dont spill your strabucks latte over your macbook

except that since the state nomenoclature has a monopoly over the infrastructure theyre the most socialist state in the middle east.

The tallest midget is still a midget.

how did the ypg fuck this up so bad

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Holy shit, do us all a favor and end yourselves.

My post did not defend the use of child soldiers; I was showing how the PKK was actually taking measure to get rid of them. Do us all a favour and read my post again.

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same goes for US proxies

they didnt, the US did

I think they'll hand the fields to the local Arabs that inhabit them tbh. Of course with US supervision. It's your typical American-Russian proxy battle.

Exit polls in Iraqi Kurdistan show that, unsurprisingly, more than 90% voted for independence. What does this mean for not just Rojava, but for the region in general?

The only part of Iraq worth anything (in the eyes of the US) splits off from the rest of the troublesome country and is prepared for hyper-exploitation at the hands of their Western "benefactors." The rest of Iraq, left without the financial sustenance of its northern oil fields, is left to rot and fester in increasingly severe sectarian violence until it descends into a humanitarian disaster akin to Afghanistan.

At this point it becomes either a cold or a hot (and probably both at various times) battleground between Iran and Saudi Arabia as they both try to turn whatever radioactive rubble is left of Iraq into a client state.

Meanwhile, the Kurds are just as poor and oppressed as before, but now it's by Kurdish Porkies functioning as satraps for Washington, who is just as ruthless in crushing opposition as Saddam was. In any event, millions are displaced, adding to if not replacing the exodus caused by the Syrian civil war. Talking heads on Western tv will shake their head and cluck their tongues, wondering how such a terrible thing could have possibly happened.

Most of Iraq Oil Fields aren’t in Kurdish areas though. Kurds probably produce less oil per capita then the average Iraqi.

Really! I thought I'd heard that the largest/richest fields were in the North in the Kurdish areas, but I guess I was mistaken. Thanks for the heads up.

Both sides say it was an accident

A tankie defending 3rd world fascism on the internet? What a surprise!

Just like Nazi Germany, and every other state capitalist regime.

That hinges on what asked: How many sympathizers does Rojava have inside the KRG? In particular, what is the stance of the PUK and Gorran?

southfront.org/sdf-responded-attacks-syrian-russian-forces-situation-remains-tense-kurdish-media/

kurdish warfare is literally

Anyone has sources of information on Syrian kurds and their history?

What kind of a fascist would support the socialist PKK until 1998? Your retarded claim falls flat even from your own position which shows that you are just throwing around the word "fascist" without meaning.
Bullshit Syria is closer to Iran
What kind of socialist allows American military bases on their land? No kind, that is the answer.

There is nothing wrong with letting Soviet Russia build bases on your land. That is nothing like letting the United States build bases on your land, if anyone is fascist today it is the United States. What country invaded Vietnam, did the bay of pigs, just flew their bombers near Korea threatening them, has led the most anti-socialist efforts in recent history, etc?

Right so an Iranian puppet

But CIA blacksites are okay.

This is bait.

This sounds like Saudi propaganda, just because there Shia doesn't mean they are "Iranian puppets."
What? No one said that.
They were already built by Soviet Russia, the Syrian government had an agreement with them before the collapse of the USSR.

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You're going to have to come up with a better argument then the fact that they have US support. USSR invaded poland alongside germany, but this is fine while having temporary US bases is haram?
Leader of the PYD said there are no current plans for long term bases, and the US hasn't given any other besides this. It takes economic and diplomatic dependency to truly call them a puppet. In regards to the government being fascistic, I'm not sure if that's an accurate descriptor but they are most certainly chauvinistic and essentially ruled by a defacto Monarch. The Assad's supported the PKK not because they care about socialism, but because it played into their foreign policy goals of a establishing a "Greater Syria" as well as weakening neighbor nations (in this case, turkey).

I dunno, why would a backward theocracy like Iran that also oppresses their Kurdish population support them? Maybe, just maybe to use as a chesspiece against geopolitical rivals like Turkey and Iraq?
In fiscal terms, Assad's Syria is completely in hock to Putin.
Stalin, Mao, Castro, etc.
Kek
China, Cambodia.

not so great on the history part, and it really isn't leisure reading, it's just 200 pages of descriptions of civil agencies and alphabet soup hell, and since it's a couple of years old, it's probably outdated already,

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Yes

The United States frequently fought the Chinese, the Russians, and they are embargoing Cuba. None of these countries were friends of the United States.
It is one thing to up a base in cooperation with the Soviet Union, and another thing entirely to open up to American imperialism. After the base was built by Soviet Russia, I don't see why post-Soviet Russia should get rid of it.
China had a brief border conflict not at all comparable to the United States invasion. The United States also supported the Cambodian reactionaries so they weren't uninvolved in that either. In any case, this selective quoting is avoiding the main point which is that it is the United States which has led the most anti-socialist efforts in recent history.

What's going to happen once the US inevitably turns on Rojava? This makes me worried guis.

They get what they deserve

The SDF/US isn't exactly subtle over whats going on there.

Except during WWII, when the US contributed vital military and economic aid to prevent them from collapsing in the face of common foes. Just like the DFNS.
Perhaps they could hand it over to Assad? Oh, wait, he's a puppet that would've vanished without Russian support.
If by "border" you mean "full-scale invasion that washed against Hanoi"
The Khmer Rouge, who were also allied with China, I presume.
Eh, red fascists have done a pretty good job, too. Catalonia, the Black Army, Kronstadt… And, closer to where we're talking about, of course all the socialists liquidated by Ba'athists in both Iraq and Syria when their respective dictatorships were installed.

Reality can be hard

You had one job

Fuck Israel

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Yinon plan now?

Now respond to the rest of my post

The flag says it all really

No need, I mostly agree with the rest of your post. I agree for example that economic dependency is necessary for being a puppet, which is why I never even said Rojava was a puppet.

Everything you say is totally disingenuous. Its not "just like DFNS" there is not a world war going on.
Yes, I get it you are an anarchist, one who throws the term "red fascist" around to describe anything you don't like. Meh.

So then why are you sperging out about the bases? If they're not a puppet then there's really no reason why they would be anything more then temporary, especially given the PYDs comments on it. I take it you're not a fan of the USSR either?

The fact that they are not opposed by the United States (the nation which has made its mission to destroy socialism) makes you have to question what kind of "socialist" they are exactly as I described. I am critical of them and sceptical of the notion that they are actually socialist.
Irrelevant

If your skeptical and critical of their system, then actually criticize it instead of complaining about the bases. What's wrong with their actual system, meaning democratic confederalism and the "communal economy"?

It is rife with nonsense. But to make things short, it denies the central role of the working class. You can find detailed critiques of it elsewhere.
Their foreign policy is very relevant, as it demonstrates something about their relationship to imperialism. You claim that the bases are temporary based upon the evidence of someone's statements. Such statements are not proof of anything. But even then they may not be puppets, and they could even remove the bases in theory, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't still be pro-American.

You could be pro-American and not be an American puppet. For example they could be pro-American reactionaries. Or perhaps they are just opportunists who will continue a pro-American policy because the benefits it brings in aid. In either case they could remain pro-American. The crux of the issue is : do you really think that Rojava is going to oppose American imperialism at some point in the future? I remain sceptical.

You're not really criticizing the superstructure they've created, just stating your dislike for the ideology behind it. It certainly has done more to help the working class then any group out there currently. An economy that's mostly collectivized around cooperatives, and a political system that empowers workers through assemblies or "communes". Even M-Ls who are critical of the underlying ideology still see a lot to like and support them cooperativeeconomy.info/could-communal-economy-be-a-distinct-mode-of-production/
Their foreign policy has nothing to do with favoritism towards the US or really any group. They've taken help from the US's competitors like Russia plenty of times, and Russia even has it's own base within Afrin. Their foreign policy is not in support of any imperialism, and I don't see how you could possibly make that argument considering none of their actions thus far have constituted anything like imperialism (especially if you're going by Lenin's definition).

FUCK, I'm so fucking tired of the Rojava general just being a fucking endlees ENDLESS, argument between retarded "muh rojava is imperialist nationalist puppets" and the retards who continue arguing with them for the ten-thousandth time! I miss when the Rojava was actually about shit going on in Rojava and had interesting articles posted and conversations about its past and future. Now it's nothing but a fucking cesspit of pointless, endless, repeating arguments.

Why won't you just ignore the ignorant retards? Why do you feel this compulsion to continue an argument that has literally never gone anywhere? Why can't anyone just fucking talk about Rojava?

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Be the change you want to see. Nobody is stopping you from sharing articles or starting up a conversation about demcon etc. I've been making these threads every single time since the cyclicle was removed, how have you contributed?

bookchin is a meme ideology of faggots but SDF is good despite that. SAA and SDF can fuck off if it continues that horrible war.

bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-41398199

Pretty interesting developments coming out of Iraq. Predictions on how this is going to develop moving forward? The way I see it, either the KRG will renege on it's promise to maintain their relationship with Turkey, but if they do then they're giving the PUK and PKK an opportunity to gain influence in the region. If they do go ahead with it, will this mean a realignment towards friendlier relations with the PKK and DFSNS? I'm not sure which is better tbh. Having the KRG helping out the DFSNS would be nice, but they're still ultimately bourgeois. On the other hand, I don't know if a power struggle within Iraqi Kurdistan is going to be any good for DFSNS.

Ask and ye shall receive

im sure you have something to back this up

ISIS fighters and their families withdrawing south of DeZ and to SDF held areas

are you sure you put the right picture or whatever there m8?

Depends. If it's the Turks that invade Northern Iraq, and the Iraqi's let them, that'll be all she wrote for Kurdistan. The US has no interest in fighting over some Kurds. If it's Iraq on the other hand, well now, they are Iranian puppets, so the US might just come out in the Kurds favour.

Big shitshow all around.

This assumes that either can actually successfully invade and occupy iraqi kurdistan. I think given the situation, invasion is not something they're considering seriously at the moment. Not only will it be a quagmire, it will stoke kurdish resistance in their respective countries, be it turkey or iran

Maybe Iraq would have trouble, but Turkey can crush them like a bug. They have an actual modern and professional army, and don't flinch when soldiers come back home in coffins.

You say that, but it's not like they've been able to deal with the PKK thus far, and russians and burgers have been beaten in similar circumstances. Turkey would only be offering another point from which to bleed it dry.

At the same time, the PKK doesn't actually have any kind of political control in the Kurdish areas in Turkey. Maybe they will not be able to quickly defeat the insurgency, but they can most definitely dismantle any kind of organized Kurdish political system in Iraq. If they can stomach the losses, that can be kept up for a very long time. Not every state is equally capable of this, but Turkey does seem to tolerate it more than others, judging by their obstinacy in the Kurdish areas of Turkey.
If you have time, look into what happened to the LTTE in Sri Lanka after 2009. That's what is most likely in store.

The turkish state can't even dismantle communist parties in the heart of Istanbul. PYD existed clandestinely till the rojava revolution broke out, and within an arguably more authoritarian state then turkey. It turns out that people organize and operate in secret all the time when denied the right to do it openly, and turkey isn't going to be able to maintain an occupation when the populace is constantly organizing against them. The kurdish populace has no reason to support them and access to guns and explosives due to the existence of a large black market in the region. I think that it's extremely unlikely that they'll be able to sustain another counter insurgency and on top of that having no current way to deal with the DFSN which would probably be supporting both the PKK and Iraqi kurdistan

This argument is doing a lot of lifting. The modern police state can tolerate a lot of underground organizing, and snuff out even more. Unless you get outside intervention or major disruption, by and large you can't knock off authoritarian regimes. It's no coincidence the Bolsheviks and CCP took power on the heels of WWI and WWII respectively.

It's just a simple case of economics really. If it costs too much to stay then they won't be able to simply because it would cause economic turmoil, as well as inevitably leading to greater political turmoil with the influence this would give to the PKK. He can't maintain his grip on power with both put into jeopardy. They can try to appropriate the oil fields but it's not terribly difficult to sabotage a pipeline, especially with access to explosives.

theres iraq and iran in the game too in any case tho. and all three will attempt to use the battle against "insurgency" or whatever to excuse warming ties to eachother.
syria might also chip in to force rojava into an autonomy rather than independence

southfront.org/sdf-hopes-us-military-stay-syria-decades/

Fake news tbh. Not in the sense that it's literally fake, but Talal Silo is only the leader of the Sejuk Brigade. He's not involved in the political decision making process, and the person who is most involved (PYD leader Salih) has already said there are no plans for such a thing. This is the same person they've been quoting every other time this stuff is brought up IIRC

DFSNS hasn't asked for independence though so I'm not sure what you mean.

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I think this is a good opportunity for the PYD to come out and do a show of support for Bashur, its kurds and offer economic aid (foodstuffs) in case of shortages due to an embargo on Bashur.
That way they'll gain enormous respect from the Iraqi kurds and their influence will swell there immensely, giving them the chance to organize an uprising against the KRG later using the PKK and the YBS and popular support.

I don't think DFSNS is really in a position to give food, considering their own problems with it.

Not sure what point you're trying to make. That they will but haven't yet? Could be but they've made no indication that they want independence and every indication that they only seek autonomy.

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see
Socialism is not an overnight process

literally the same fucking retarded response Stalinoids have been giving when confronted about the fact that they support social democracy at gunpoint, rather than a new mode of production. these Rojava threads are fascinating and I'm always interested to read about the Syrian Civil War, but people still pretending DFNS is socialist is like a sad joke that stopped being funny too long ago.

Stalinoids defend a bueracracy that was ultimately incapable of abolishing the commodity form. The issue is not that they didn't instaneously abolish capital and the commodity form, but that they still maintained the same kind of hierarchical top down organizing of production that makes abolishing class in impossibility. DFSNS doesn't have that problem due to the nature of it's organizing, which is through cooperatives and communes. I don't know how anyone who's read Marx expects instantaneous abolishment of commodities, when even he proposed a program of gradual socialization through nationalization and taxation.

Nice non-sequitur Roo.

All Syrian Army sites along on Road from SHoula till Arround Sokhneh , captured By ISIS this Night .

mobile.twitter.com/MIG29_/status/913501980680687617

They don't have shortages of food in Rojava (maybe a bit of lack of variety)
However they do have trouble processing and packaging it to make it last from what I've seen.

Turkish Kurdistan is not developed enough to sustain a modern police state

Holla Forums is discussing this.
boards.4chan.org/pol/thread/143295536

No but they go around this by ghettification of rural kurds into squalid, cramped cities which are easier to police.

testing

Every time I have posted material myself it gets either drowned out in endless shitting and arugments or gets pointlessly shat on by "r u a sionista US puppet??! xd".
It's the same with any other poster here who posts material of actual worth.

thats halfchans pol faggot.

Stop being a baby

I really don't have a problem with argument; the old cyclical thread had plenty of discussion and heated debates.
My problem is when it downgrades the quality of the thread.

I don't see how not posting material is going to fix anything. Morons are going to behave like morons irregardless, so might as well provide information anyways for those that can appreciate it.

Perhaps you should make an American imperialism general, perhaps then you would get more activity.

/thread

Looks like they've taken it back, but there are more unconfirmed reports of isis making advance farther south against SAA. Meanwhile SDF seems to be focusing on moving west.

Bumping with articles form cooperativeconomy

cooperativeeconomy.info/introducing-the-people-of-north-syria-to-cooperatives/
Short article on efforts by the qamishlo "house of cooperatives" to educate the local populace on cooperatives

cooperativeeconomy.info/the-people-of-jandairis-meet-to-discuss-their-economy-and-resources/
Brief article on a meeting in jandaris to discuss and take suggestions on the local economy

cooperativeeconomy.info/a-peoples-economy/
Good article on the "People's economy" (otherwise known as the communal economy), or Peoples Economic Plan. Highlights include the abolishment of private property in the region by bringing them under the countrol of various city councils, with only personal property remaining independent. 3/4ths of the economy is socialized while 1/4th is personal property. Taxes are non-existent.

What if we send all the ancaps to Rojava as cannon fodder? They'll volunteer wholeheartedly

If that's the only thing you told them about it they probably would go. Unfortunately DFSNS is very protective of it's volunteers :^(

Is there any actual proof of US economic imperialism in Rojava?

how about dozens of US military bases?

None whatsoever

That's not economic imperialism fam. They've got Russian bases to, and no economic ties to either.

How the fuck arent more of the retards here at least looking at what Rojava is doing in its economy and political organising. They seem to have done more to move out of capitalism than any social movement and revolution the past 20 or even 30 years. Even if they are allies of the US (atm at least) we should still be looking at what they are doing, some of it might be useful.

Honestly get the impression most people in these thread who are anti-rojava are from 4/pol/ concern trolling. Everyone else is just your runofthemill sectarian.

I don't think anyone is saying the US is engaged in economic imperialism with Rojava, but that they are trying opportunistically to use them to open Syria up to US domination and economic imperialism.

Gypsies vs some Arab dictator.

If somebody would say me in the XX cetury, that I will be following THIS events, I would cry.

case in point

Trying is not the same thing as accomplishing though. The DFSNS policies don't at all align with american economic domination.

If you call tribe feudalism "democratic confeneralism" it doesn't change much.

The same with Palestine or such.

t. doesn't know anything about DFSNS. Too stupid to argue with, so I'll just tell you to links found here and here

ebin

Don't give a fuck.

What do you think about Palestine?

your father should have pulled out

if literal subhuman garbage like poles, serbs, russians and turks deserve a their own country then so do palestinians

Made this for you lot. Enjoy

youtube.com/watch?v=veurtbIDEXw

They already have one, it's called Jordan.

...

what are you, an albanian?

no, its palestine. if some jew from chicago wants to own a summer resort he can fuck off to mexico

There was some confusion what that women village is all about, but a recent tweet from kurdish question clears it up: twitter.com/KurdishQuestion/status/914982470868709376

Seems pretty reasonable for me.

Meh. I didn't really see any reason to freak out about it before

Dear diary, today the tankies remained in silence, with luck they'll grow bored and forget about Rojava general.

youtube.com/watch?v=7eZ4MwgViQI

...

Sorry to ruin your day, but Rojava is pretty much comparable to what the white man did to Africa.

...

wtf I love Rojava now

How? The Kurds have been oppressed since the days of The Ottoman Empire. Unless Turks are white this one ain't on European colonialism.

PS: How "socialist" is The PKK anyways?

southfront.org/israel-giving-kurds-air-force-fight-baghdad-reports/

looks like kurds took accusations literally and went with it

The KRG have been buds with Israel for a while now.

not on this level

Not sure what Iraqi Kurdistan has to do with DFSNS tbh. Also,
color me skeptical. SouthFront tends to be bs for the most part

So effectively a big woman's shelter. That seems like a good idea when you're a familyless woman in a patriarchal and heavily family-based society.

Before it sounded like a village that women would deliberately segregate themselves into to be away from men.

Shouldn't the embargo have been lifted by now now that Iraq has liberated the main roads leading from Mosul to Rojava? Shouldn't they now be able to trade with and through Iraq?

Iraqi Kurdistan's government (KRG not PUK) is hostile to the DFSNS. Barzani sees himself as the leader of the kurdish people while most kurdish people (especially within the DFSNS) sees Apo as their leader, and Barzani is more or less a bourgeois dictator siphoning oil money from the Iraqi Kurdish people into his own pockets.

I know that, but now the Iraqi Government has an actual border with Rojava. I'm asking why they aren't trading now that the KRG and Turkey aren't their only borders.

Because as I said, the KRG is hostile to DFSNS. They don't want to see them succeed, they want it either to become part of Barzani's new ethno state or become a puppet to it. There's a reason why Barzani's goons within DFSNS have been arrested and exiled.

I'm not talking about the KRG, I'm talking about the actual government of Iraq, the government that is currently having to deal with their country splitting apart.

OH. Sorry for not understanding you sooner. That's probably because they're aligned with Iran, and for obvious reasons Iran doesn't want to see the DFSNS continue either.

It's just strange that I haven't seen any news about a change in the embargo since Iraq liberated Mosul and the rest of the land leading to Syria. Not even a mention that they are deciding to embargo Rojava also.

I'm not sure either tbh. I'm not surprised that there's no trade but it is odd that there's no official statement on the matter. Probably nothing is going to change in that regard though. It's not like any of the powers that be want to see the DFSNS succeed. Even the US doesn't have any economic ties despite the claims of them being some kind of puppet to the US

Arabs are Aryan.

4/pol/ is the real Holla Forums 4/pol/ is much bigger then 8/pol/

Sense when were Kurds Romanians?

No they are not, they fall with Afro-Semitic people's. Aryans fall within indo-european people's, and include North Indians and Iranians/pakis

Then why do Syrians and Lebanese people look very similar to white people. Just look at Assad.

WE

WUZ

because they are white? I'm pretty sure arabs and assirians are considered europids, not negroids or mongoloids

Arabs are literally semites. You know, the same group as ethnic jews.

Probably because he spends a lot of time indoors. Skin color is actively affected by sun exposure not simply heritage. Besides that I imagine a lot of Syrians have Hellenic, Roman, Turkic, Iranian and Caucasian heritage. Which might have less pronounced melanin production that the people's of the Arabian peninsula. Most Arabs are actually Arabinized rather than Arabs actually displacing native population during the Islamic conquest.

are you mentally challanged?

except that halfpol is a meltingpot of all ideological spectrums while this pol is what people usually think of when someone said "pol" (muh nazis etc)
you also have pro-rojava and pro-isis posters there. anything from zionists to flat out nazi shitposters

well theyre a nomadic tribe that just settled in some place they were not welcome to and refused to emancipate everytime.

because they live in a similar climate as we (im european) do and because theyre from a much closer race branch than say africans or asians.

first of all the term "semite" refers to ancient peoples in the levant region that happened to beleive in a single diety. it has much less to do with race, but the term spread to this field because it was easier to throw all thos people in the same pot based on race.
second of all jews belong to borat country not palestine.

i see youre unfamiliar with the world outside your basement.

based on what exactly? your feelings?

???

he got offended by the
joke so he "attempted" to be even more controversial

more on this
veteranstoday.com/2017/10/04/israel-giving-the-kurds-an-air-force-to-fight-baghdad/

All this hype for a SDF-SAA war and nothing even happens, did I get this popcorn for nothing?

there will never a a SAA-SDF war.
the point of creting SDF was to serve as a plan B when FSA failed.
SDF is suppost to hold a large chunk of syria with US presence, not go up against Damascus.
regeime change failed in syria, so americans are going with partitioning.

So you have popcorn handy for the Erbil-Baghdad war. Fucking hell, I hope weebs in the region are okay.

You do realize they're hostile to one another right? KRG accepting support from Israel has literally nothing to do with the DFSNS, being totally separate poltical entities. Even Iraqi Kurdistan is split among two parties (PUK and KRG). Did you guys just assume kurds are a monolith? SouthFront has proven so far to have been unreliable, especially when depicting the leader of the Sejuk Brigade as having any kind of political say, and using him as the basis of claiming permanent US presence. Flag related

every fucking thread

you dont know enough to have authority to speak on this

...

Assad is descended from some of the many Aryan groups that passed through the Middle East like the Hittites, the Iranians, the Greeks, and the Romans. That is why he looks white, but he is of Arab because of assimilation. Several Aryan groups have assimilated into other cultures, like for example all of Anatolia which went from being Aryan to being Turk. Arab, Jew, Turk, etc are not races.

hey kid, how about you stop it with your butthurt autism and get on with the world.
your gay dejure world view doesent mean shit. and no authority is needed to speak here, if 15yo NEETs like you can shitpost here about their fanfictions

whats there to understand? the US is trying to invade another country through every door they can find.
and then some liberals and uatists fell for their propaganda because some proxy sais something they like.

fantasy bullshit

At least we don't shill for Bookchite liberals backed by US imperialism.

same fag

bumping with more cooperativeeconomy articles

An Agricultural Project to Support the Women’s Economy and Break the Siege
cooperativeeconomy.info/an-agricultural-project-to-support-the-womens-economy-and-break-the-siege/

Mualda Cooperative to Provide Electricity to 200 Houses in Village of Manbij
cooperativeeconomy.info/mualda-cooperative-to-provide-electricity-to-200-houses-in-village-of-manbij/

Fuel Distributed to Harvester Truck Owners in Kobane
cooperativeeconomy.info/fuel-distributed-to-harvester-truck-owners-in-kobane/

Developing the Women’s Economy in East Aleppo with a Cleaning Products Workshop
cooperativeeconomy.info/developing-the-womens-economy-in-east-aleppo-with-a-cleaning-products-workshop/

Nowruz Pickle-Making Factory Opens in Rojava
cooperativeeconomy.info/nowruz-pickle-making-factory-opens-in-rojava/

Is it just me or is this site working worse after the maintenance?

bumping with more cooperativeeconomy articles

An Agricultural Project to Support the Women’s Economy and Break the Siege
cooperativeeconomy.info/an-agricultural-project-to-support-the-womens-economy-and-break-the-siege/

Mualda Cooperative to Provide Electricity to 200 Houses in Village of Manbij
cooperativeeconomy.info/mualda-cooperative-to-provide-electricity-to-200-houses-in-village-of-manbij/

Fuel Distributed to Harvester Truck Owners in Kobane
cooperativeeconomy.info/fuel-distributed-to-harvester-truck-owners-in-kobane/

Developing the Women’s Economy in East Aleppo with a Cleaning Products Workshop
cooperativeeconomy.info/developing-the-womens-economy-in-east-aleppo-with-a-cleaning-products-workshop/

Nowruz Pickle-Making Factory Opens in Rojava
cooperativeeconomy.info/nowruz-pickle-making-factory-opens-in-rojava/

then breed, or species or whatever.

then breed, or species or whatever.

wrong you millenial autist.
also not an argument you CIA fanboy

Samefag or not, impotent 4/pol/ rage is delicious

first you call people samefag because theres no argument against what they said, not to mention calling someone samefag here is retarded because we dont use IDs, and then when you get called out on your latest autism you just go

youre one pathetic 14yo

Read the thread buddy. Nothing you're saying isn't something we haven't already discussed before. Repeating the same thing ad nauseum isn't going to change that anymore then us responding to it ad nauseum going to change it. Stay mad though.

Looks like Turkey is making a move on Idlib. What's the context behind this? Is this part of the deal they've made with Russia? Would be pretty ironic if it ends up being Russia who's responsible for the balkanization of Syira.

if you need to post pictures and keep saying youre not triggered to try and appear calm then you must be new here.
and no, no good argument has yet been presented agaisnt the argument at hand, instead there was just some fallacies and fingerpointing.

russia allowed turkey to go in syria and fight FSA first, so that their actions would be more convnient when they attack YPG under a broader ATO

Make another thread to complain about it.

I seriously doubt Turkey is interested in leaving after. Wouldn't be the first time they've taken territory from Syria, especially with their plans for a "Greater Turkey"

...

It's not too hard to tell the difference. IDK why people keep conflating them.

Top jej

Ayyyy my man keep it up

give me evidence that the DFSNS goal is to secede?

No point m8.

anything a PR person sais goes into the trash. the US went in syria to execute a regeime change. their proxy failed. thats why they crated the SDF and "anti-IS" coalition.
theyre creating a pretext to occupy syria.
no, you just cried "samefag" and "u mad". try harder
yes, you are.
the SDF is a defacto US regional province that challanges the authority of the legitimate syrian goverment in favor of autonomous rule under a US "alliance". if youre one of those mongoloids that thinks SDF is gonna kick out the US when they feel like it and remain in the "part of syria but not totally" limbo then you should kill yourself.
if youre too retarded to read anything else than some local activist twitter posts then i feel sorry for you

top lel

Makes you wonder if it's just satire sometimes

Wait Rojava has prostution?

Russia is making political gains by slowly selling out the Syrian government to Turkey, but not completely.

DELETE THIS

i dont think you know what satire means.
also not an argument

stay mad

proof the U.S "created" the SDF?
the SDF will make the U.S leave when ISIS is defeated this has been pointed out dozens of times do some research
that wasnt me
nope
proof?

...

Well, Rojavan women are simply prostitutes of US foreign policy…

No u

Thread about leftists "dissapeared" by the Assad government.

twitter.com/sergwalden/status/917139103803756544

How will tankies respond?

Tankies aren't socialists so much as they are "anti-americanists". For the most part, they'll support anything that's against the interests of the US. They were defending Durte not too long ago after all.

you say this like its a bad thing, who do think has been viciously attacking and undermining even the most moderately socialist movements across the globe for the past 60 years?

if you arent anti-antlanticist first and foremost you arent a commie brother, and you are quite possibly aiding and abetting the enemy

the SDF is a fucking scam on many levels but who knows the kurds might be able to actually build something out of this considering how weak anglo hegemony is right now, they are gonna have to concede something. Kurds are still ethno-nationalists first and foremost tho, dont you faggots every forget that just because chapo traps told you they were kewl, also the burgers will inevitably stab them in the back again like under saddam

Wrong.

Being more against america then you are for socialism? Yeah I would consider that to be a bad thing.

youre not retarded enough to beleive that evolution is linear right?

from the horses mouth washingtonpost.com/opinions/the-new-coalition-to-destroy-the-islamic-state/2016/05/22/54d9b466-2036-11e6-aa84-42391ba52c91_story.html?postshare=2361463990501453&tid=ss_tw&utm_term=.0e5c0a0fb490

oh boy, you mean like how the US left europe when ww2 ended and again when the USSR collapsed?

plausability of doubt granted, since it wouldnt lead anywhere

>

You YPG was alrighty fighting in the area and it had FSA allies fighting with them. The moniker of "SDF" is just a way for the US to give weapons to the YPG while saying that they're not. Fundamentally nothing has actually changed in the military structure, the difference now being receiving assistance from the US. Considering that their are no deals in place, not even any sense of diplomatic ties even, if the US does stay it would be against the wishes of the DFSNS. DFSNS arguably more politically stable then the Syrian government proper, considering that they don't need authoritarian measures like torturing political dissidents in order to try and maintain order. I don't know why you would consider a capitalist economy under they Syrian government more "stable and prosperous" than the collectivized economy of DFSNS. You haven't actually made any effort to criticize the political and economic system within the DFSNS outside of criticizing their military alliance with the US, an alliance which doesn't include any diplomatic or economic ties. Diplomatically, DFSNS has closer ties to Russia which actually does host an embassy.

The YPG*
Here's hoping you're willing to argue in good faith and I'm not wasting my time

...

...

*being cornered until the americans came
pic related
you mean like

neither has in the rebel and jihadist one after the US supplied them

i dont think people behind the big map desk give a fuck about wishes

*laughter*
hurr durr proofs

neither does the SAA in areas they capture.
the civillians on both sides know that they traded ISIS for the current power and cant do anything about it, even less have the will to.

because it was the most prosporous non-US-backed economy in the region

my country had such a wartime economy and did pretty good a few decades after the war, but then it was melons. id love to see how they fare

that wont really be a factor in the regional future so i dont think it matters much more than on a symbolic level

oh now you slowly get it.
heres a rethorical question:
would i support a revolution in a dictatorship if no foregein powers were involved?
the anwser is simple yet since it is an impossible hypothesis it also has no value

oh boy

Still waiting for a response to this tbh fam

They can't. Tankies are LARPers who will despise any political movement that does not fit their daddy fantasy and will ignore any legitimate information used against them.

Yeah they accepted military help because they didn't have a choice. I don't think anyone is really disputing that. Nobody ITT is supporting the arming of fundamentalists, so I'm not sure what point your making. The political system is probably best compared to the swiss canton system, which has a good track record for political stability. Contrast this to the Syrian government which constantly needs to resort to torturing and violent repression to maintain order, and I'm talking about before the civil war. The US government in fact paid the Syrian government to torture prisoners for them. A capitalist economy is inherently unstable, even more so with the implementation of neo-liberal policies results in the privatization of previously nationalized industries. What country are you from? The economy of rojava is not collectivized in the same way that the Russian economy was. There's an article ITT on it if you're interested in learning more about that. I'm not how the politics and economy of an area is ever irrelevant to the greater region at large, and for the people living within DFSNS it's not at all symbolic. They actually live and experience it on a daily basis. I'm not sure why opponents of DFSNS believe that a socialist future will come about by supporting regimes that repress and kill leftists, as if their victory over america will do anything to change this anto-socialist status quo. It's akin to the lesser-evilism that liberals in america subscribe to.

I honestly have no idea WTF this is supposed to mean. The United States invaded Vietnam, continues to threaten Korea, established the Cuban embargo, did the bay of pigs and operation condor, did operation cyclone in Afghanistan, etc. The United States is the one country with not only the will to destroy socialism around the world, but the means to do it (Russia is a very limited regional power). How can you be for socialism and not be against America?

It means that it's absurd to think that you can achieve socialism purely by opposing america, especially in cases when that logic leads you to support dictators that actively repress and kill leftists. I never said you can't or shouldn't oppose america.

Literally no one said this, its nonsensical that you would respond to this point with such a ridiculous strawman. Opposing America is the first step.

As the current global policemen of the world, the United States tortures and kills actual leftists on a global scale. Remember the CIA torture programs. A United States controlled state is never any better then any of the "dictators" that liberals and ultralefts whinge on and on about.

It's not a strawmen. They think that they should support people like Assad purely because he's an enemy of the US even though his government will do nothing to advance socialism. Opposing both is the only leftist option, because neither can be considered to be working in our interests.

The idea is not to "support people like Assad" in the abstract, but to support them against United States imperialism, then we can talk about opposing them later if that is reasonably possible. What exactly does "opposing both" mean in the current context? Why "people like Assad" grouped together with America when the actual threat of America is so much greater and so much more immediate?

Supporting proletarian revolution in Syira obviously. Leftists in Syria can't support him when he's actively killing them along with any kind of dissidents trying to change the country. DFSNS is essentially (proletarian revolution) that anyways, and them receiving arms from burgerland doesn't change the socialist character of the revolution. Their economy and political system is still socialist, unlike the Syrian government.

Democratic Confederalism is capitalism, so no, the PKK (what the "YPG" and "DFS" actually are) haven't been worth supporting since they switched from Marxist-Leninism, the only proletarian ideology period, full stop

Except that 75% of their economy is munipalized (under direct control of local assemblies and internally organized as cooperatives) and the other 25% is personal property. That's not capitalism, and Marxism-Leninism has only ever resulted in state-capitalism

Even if you don't consider it to be socialist, then the point still stands that the leftist option is to support proletarian revolution not the continued existence of the bourgeois Syrian government, whether it's the current one or one that a foreign power institutes.

MLs are the stupidest niggas in the world.

the existence of US imperial hegemony means no proletarian revolution is possible, the only thing to do is to support anyone who works against US interests, bouj, fascist, feudal, it doesn't matter because building any project while the US exists is pointless.

says the Kurdish nationalist

There's genuinely no hope for you

How exactly does that make sense when Syria is being targeted by imperialism. That is not a good time for there to be a revolution.
Okay now you are exaggerating. The National Progressive Front includes many parties in Syria including leftists and communists that agree with supporting the Syrian regime. They are not killing all leftists, and they are certainly not "fascist" as some people here would erroneously claim. Of course they are killing people that actively oppose the regime they are in a major war.
How is that reasonable when half of their population is refugees fleeing the imperialist war? Perhaps a more accurate statement would be that they are a refugee camp.
The Syrian government supports its own version of Arab socialism.

Stop repeating over and over again the statement of one propagandist as if its complete fact.

Only a liberal or ultraleftist could have such equivocation "whether its the current one or one that a foreign power institutes." There is a big difference between these two things, the first priority should be to oppose the more powerful foreign enemy occupying the country in order to establish national liberation. Then fight the weaker enemy. That is you should fight the stronger enemy first.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutionary_defeatism
fucking notheory

When did I imply that?

Nice equivocation. Leninists still support national liberation. In a struggle of some oppressed or colonized people it is not the Leninist position to oppose their national liberation struggle based upon the doctrine of "oppose both sides." Revolutionary defeatism is only used in war between two similar imperialist powers not between an imperialist power and a weaker country.

YPG/SDF is a Kurdish nationalist force and you support them, you do the math

It makes no difference what the dominant imperialist power is. If you somehow end US hegemony, another power will just replace it like China, the EU, or Russia. Capitalism is the root of the imperialism and hegemony in the first place. If you take out capitalism, you take out imperialism with it. You stupid retards, stop supporting reactionaries just because they hate the US. Proletarian revolution or nothing. You """Anti-imperialist"" are all fucking insufferable morons.

Did I ever say I support them? Bullshit geo-poltics and civil-wars aren't fucking soccer games where you have to "support" one side or the other.

Then we will need to oppose it too. The British empire was once the global policemen, and the main supporter of global reaction. It was necessary to oppose it during its time. Now America is the global police men, and we need to fight it. If some other power comes along it will need to be opposed too.
If you try to take out capitalism in the context of an imperialist society you will be crushed like the Paris commune. The first task is to form a revolutionary state has the means to combat imperialism, and with that anti-imperialist struggle you can then start to build socialism.

...

t. woke centrist

So you admit that a proletarian revolution can take place despite the existence of a dominant imperialist power? Aren't you contradicting yourself here? Does this not mean that a socialist movement would necessarily be a struggle against imperialism? Lenin himself said that you should not support reactionary anti-imperialist struggles. The only anti-imperialist causes that are worth respect are socialist anti-imperialist struggles.

t. larper

There is literally no such thing as a reactionary anti-imperialist struggle you fucking idiot

really makes you think

BRAINLET
R
A
I
N
L
E
T

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Tankie's autistic world view is the reason why retards like mugabe and Pol Pot came about.

...

MUGABE INNOCENT

Pol Pot’s fight against American-Vietmnese imperialism was a noble cause though.

Your cause isn't noble if the underlying thesis prevents you from winning a war with your enemies.

it would be very nice if the syrian civil war ended before the turks destroyed efrin

The next US president IS going to invade Syria and perpetuate the conflict

heres one:
so what?

im not asking you to defend their descisions.
im adressing their geopolitical role.
along those lines hitler too had to build a warmachine to gain credibility in europe. yet we cant dismiss what these descisions ultimately led to.

how exactly have the jihadist terror organisations functioned for the past few decads? on charity?

switzerland remained because the peoples there agreed to form a defensive federation that got diplomatically recognised by all surrounding powers. after that they built credibility on foregein policy and thus enforced the federal commitment of provinces.
its hardly the same as having a war-tired handful of ethnic groups in a syrian desert while rellying on the US to not get invaded by everything around you.
they wont get the same recognition they got for fighting IS as the swiss got for fighting napoleon and being elite mercenaries.

t. CNN

syria was relatively progressive compared to everyone else in the region.

i dont think you know how the syrian nomenoclature infrastructure works. really explains why you just throw the word neoliberal around hoping it offends someone.
my whole point is that the implementation of this system cannot outweight the consequences the current situation will bring for the region. in this context i wont support one belligrent just because it has a good infrastructural and economic system.

sorry just write this one again, i kinda couldnt make out your point because of the grammar mistake

correct, yet its not those people that make the world go the way its going.

the latter part is a good argument.
the rethoric here is that currently the US neoliberal western hegemoney has the power monopoly over the world.
and to put it simple, i suppose youre a well read person,
its easier to make a revolution happen in 1984 than in a brave new world. especially if that 1984 is alot more polarised and fractured.

i kinda have to agree with that one.
t. author of alltime classics such as

...

Any tankies want to comment on Assad using ISIS to fight a proxy war with HTS? Al Qaeda has been fighting against American imperialism for more than two decades, and they've refused cooperation with NATO turkey. unironically support HTS against American imperialism.

Their decision to accept help isn't worthy of condemnation in of itself. What they're using it for is towards socialist goals, and I don't see how you can compare that to the Nazis. It's a non-sequitur to condemn the DFSNS because Islamic fundamentalists receive support from the US. People in DFSNS agree to form a defensive federation same as switzerland, and whether or not they've received diplomatic recognition yet is irrelevant. That has nothing to do with the internal stability of DFSNS, which doesn't have to worry about the same kind of things that come with authoritarian governments like that of the Syrian government.The process of extradition has been well known for a while, it's not US propaganda when leftists in Syria are the ones pointing out the practices of the Syrian government to begin with. You're not making a counter argument to the fact that it's a capitalist society bending ever more towards privatization but just hand waving it away as if this isn't significant.The consequences for the region is that a socialist project exists and has the potential to expand beyond it's current borders, and this might mean further war but that's the territory that comes with revolution. DFSNS and it's people have the potential to determine their own future, and to say that they should give that up in order to be brought back into a status quo that doesn't at all serve them is absurd. Why on earth would they willingly give up their new found freedom and autonomy because someone living thousands of miles away thinks that this freedom and autonomy is dangerous? US does not have a power monopoly over the world. If that were true, then Assad would have been removed from power and Russia and China would be client states. US is currently the most powerful capitalist nation but that does not mean they have a monopoly on power. We're living in a mix of 1984 and Brave New World, and the fact that even in these conditions a utopia can arise in a place least expected is astounding. I'm not going to dismiss it because of who they are receiving weapons from, since that has no bearing on the actual content of the society they've made and are fighting for

Yeah I've been hearing about that for a while. They've had plans to go after idlib once raqqa is liberated. I say good for them, let them remove all the Islamic fundamentalists from the country

Are ISIS basically just the local mercenaries with a good chunk of public image deniability at this point? They were accused of being an SDF/US proxy just a few days ago.

ISIS uses beduin guerrila tactics, and so managed to capture a major SAA checkpoint on the palmyra road by going trough the desert under the cover of night and bad weather. they also relly on mobilising the locals instead of actually redeploying troops, so it wouldnt be hard for a few agitators to win over a faction in the area, especially when you know how these "rebel" militias really work.

as for your alqaeda meme, it was created by the US to fight the soviets in afgan, and then used to start sunni insurgencies against saddam, and after saddam was gone they served as a pretext for US occupation and as a counterweight to shia militias like the mahdi army and as a mean to fracture the remnants of the baath insurgency in which there were still effective republican guard fighting units and individuals such as Juba, who IS allegedly killed a year ago.

their PR is enforced by propaganda from the US and other powers themselves to legitimise the "anti-ISIS" campaign. the onlyone calling out its connection to these powers is the one actually fighting them, as was the case with russia and syria calling out turk oil deals.

TBH, Al-Qaeda as such didn't exist as anything more than a buzzword in CIA press releases until 9/11, as nearly every action attributed to them was carried out by different, mostly unrelated individuals and groups. Even after 9/11, when it was used as a genuine moniker by terrorists, it (and Bin Laden's leadership structure) was more of a rallying cry and brand name than a truly cohesive organization like the Mujahadeen or IRA.

Watch The Power of Nightmares.

youre absolutely right in your post. what i meant by alqeada when referring to afgan and saddam-era iraq was the collective of organisations that were under laden and saudi influence, since using the term alqaeda simplifies the debate with most people, much like using the term "rebels"/"opposition"/"terrorists" when debating anti-govt militias excluding IS

edgy

youtube.com/watch?v=7sDRTfMOHwQ

errr… He does know that Peshmerga are Iraqi Kurds, not Syrian Kurds, right?

the second i hear one of the call DFSNS "the kurds" or parrot some russia today crap about how apparently "The DFSNS wants to secede despite them never claiming that"
i just put thei opinion in the trash

Stop repeating over and over again the statement of one propagandist as if its complete fact.
is there any reason to. believe its false?

or when the act like the krg and dfns is the same thing

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Were tankies right all along?

Who is this and why should we care? Also,
Good one fam :^)

So what you are saying is that they are opportunists, they are using this opportunity in which Syria is under imperialist assault to their advantage, because they couldn't get away with what they are doing otherwise.
My post did not require "fixing".
That is not how it works, if you are making a claim you need to back it up with something, not ask for disproof of it. That anecdote is not proof of anything, yet it is repeated over and over again here as if it is complete fact.

is there something wrong with taking advantage of an opportunity to spark a revolution
it id though
all the "leftist" parties that support assad are literal controlled opposition
and no Baathism isnt leftist

When a country happens to be under assault from imperialism then yes that is excellent.
According to you

Bumping with footage from the recent elections in DFSNS facebook.com/KurdistanSolidarityCampaign/videos/1928312820826591/

Actually, the DFSNS formed because Assad's forces retreated from the area leaving it undefended and ungoverned except for a few pockets. The fact that they took this opportunity to not just defend themselves but form a better society where they didn't have to answer to an authoritarian government just makes sense, the alternative being slaughtered by Daesh. DFSNS hosts a large amount of IDPs, many of which are not just escaping from Daesh but from the Syrian government. The fact that they host IDPs does nothing to dismiss the proletarian nature of the revolution. Nothing about the Syrian economy is socialist, not unless you consider a few nationalized industries to constitute socialism.Leftists that are not part of the controlled opposition and agitate against the Syrian government are routinely imprisoned, tortured, or killed. Salih Muslim, current leader of the PYD, actually had to escape from Syria because of this. This is before the revolution, mind you, and the idea that war justifies the killing of those who challenge a capitalist authoritarian status quo is absurd. DFSNS does not kill political opposition like this. The figure is not propaganda, it's policy, policy that's been corroborated by numerous outside observers. Socialism cannot be achieved through a liberal policy of lesser evilism, embracing dictators that maintain a capitalist economy and anti-democratic government merely because they are the alleged enemies of a capitalist super power, a super power which they had no problem doing business with previously.

based world filter

first off see….

does protecting a reactionary regime from imperialism seriously supersede supporting peoples revolution in your mind?
actually most people dont consider controlled opposition leftist

stop this shit about Assad being a secret leftist
no ones buying it

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well to be honest that revolution is nothing more than a label for a fifth column of the invading country

you mean doing what your boss told you to
you mean like all the western leftists that support "the revolution"?

its time to shut the fuck up

OK so were back to this shit…
give me evidence that DFSNS is a U.S puppet?

peshmerga is a convinient potential US ally, along the sunni militias in the western part of the country, should the shia goverment in bagdad abandon US ties in favor of iranian and syrian ones, which is very likely and is being pushed by some PMU commanders.
you wouldnt be making your post if you were actually aware of what context the rececent history of the region has been unfolding in.

who is YPG and why should we care?

it accomplished more than most other things in the last century over there
without a doubt the lesser evil in all this
video related
not "thus". if you knew what was the whole point of the war youd know why they are being labeled so.

theyre part of the scheme to partition syria and establish a US foothold in the region after the regeime change in syria failed and baghdad started getting closer to iran
the only reason you cant accept what i wrote here and what other people have been saying all along is because of your cognitive bias toward somebelligrent groups soley because of their alleged ideological affiliation, regardless of anything else completely.
which either indicates you have the mental capability of a insecure NEET in puberty or a mentally chalanged person.

are you retarded or something? prettymuch every major "workers" revolution in the world was kickstarted and/or backed from a different party, from the bolshevik revolution (germany), yugoslav partisans (USSR), vietnam (USSR), etc
and that is ofcourse if we take this under the context that these revolutions were "workers" revolutions.
the one youre talking about can be classified as anything from a class struggle to a flat out fifth column.
just like western leftists do when they support the revolution in syria
yeah no. that just some biased bullshit and trying to argue that ist true or not is just a dick measuring contest.
you want me to go post vids and pics of celebrating syrians or something?

try "us ally of convenience"

Nah m8 fuck off

you do know whay they have russian bases right?

tell me about one political movement of the arabs that did more for the arabs in the region that baathism?

are you gonna say gaddafis muslim democratic fundamentalism?

Hey instead why don't you lick the sweat from my taint

i was asking rethorical questions you dont want to anwser as not to contradict yourself

Dude is probably mentally unstable and got kicked out of his unit to prevent him from doing something dangerous.
I doubt he's actually imprisoned as he clearly has access to a smartphone.

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where did i use the term "puppet"?
youre just trying to use a slippery slope to make my point seem more extreme and less favourable.
what i wrote is true, but again, you wont admit it.
i guess you also dont beleive the earth is flat because there is no proof and any proof there is just some round-earthist propaganda and can be dissmissed
what are you, retarded or something?
youre controlled opposition in your country.
you support its agression, yet claim to be against the system or whatever.
youre an illiterate dumbass

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I assumed he was insubordinate, showed up for a week, decided he wanted to leave. Like the US Army will throw you in prison if you refuse to fight for them, and their contracts last 8 years, unlike the YPG which requires only a 6 month commitment (he joined the MFS, not YPG). In most countries you can be executed for Cowardice. Sounds like the YPG just put him in "prison" until the end of his commitment and maybe they're having trouble with smugglers. doesn't sound like he's lacking that much freedom, I wonder what he does to pay for his food, or if he ever tried arranging to get smuggled to Iraq.

I'm the person who responded here
You're implying that the DFSNS has no poltical agency, as if their interests are irrelevant to this equation therefore making america's interests the necessary end result. Not only is this simplistic, it's just factually incorrect. If that were true then they would be exporting their oil to america and allowing them to privatize their economy, neither of which has happened or will happen. The reality is that they've formed a socialist economy, and I don't know why you would dismiss this as irrelevant either. There is plenty of evidence to corroborate this, it's not as if they're north korea and allow limited journalistic access to their country (though admittedly kicking out Rudaw and other Barzani proxies). There is no proof that their interests are the "balkanization of Syria", so either you must concede that you do indeed think they are nothing more then a puppet or provide proof that is non-existent, and choosing the former must provide proof that they are indeed puppets that is also non-existent. Considering that many Syrians flee to the DFSNS controlled territory, and the fact that the economy is socialized and government is democratic, I think it's safe to assume that the people within the DFSNS approve of it much more then they do the Syrian government. If they did not, then they would be fleeing to SAA controlled territory.

anybody bothered to read this?
spectrerouge.com/index.php/2017/10/11/the-production-of-rubble/

Personal property =/= private property.

woops forgot flag

This article makes a good effort but fails at some important points, mostly to do with the accusations of DFSNS being "bourgeois", and it's mostly due to a semantics issue. To quote from this article cooperativeeconomy.info/a-peoples-economy/ : "Traditional “private property” was abolished in late 2012, meaning all buildings, land, and infrastructure fell under control of the various city councils. This did not mean people no longer owned their homes or businesses, however. The councils implemented an “ownership by use” sovereign principle, a principle that could not be overturned by any council. Ownership by use means that when a building like a home or a business is being used by a person or persons, the users would in fact own the land and structures but would not be able to sell them on an open market. Öcalan wrote that use ownership is what prevents speculation and capital accumulation which in turn leads to exploitation."
To use Proudhonian definitions, personal property is protected as a right not private property. The author also asserts that " From a communist perspective there was no revolution to begin with. Being a largely rural territory, northern Syria experienced no movement for the negation of capitalism. Instead, Partiya Karkerên Kurdistanê (Kuridstan Workers’ Party, PKK) cadre entered from Turkey in the Spring of 2011 and built, from the ground up, their own revolution[42]"
This ignores the reality of the existence of the PYD prior to this. PKK cadres did indeed help enormously but to state that they "built, from the ground up, their own revolution" is inaccurate. PYD existed clandestinely for years prior to the Syrian civil war, and it's fair to say that it is they that constituted the social movement that formed DFSNS. DFSNS is not perfect, and indeed we should constantly be critical of any and all failings, but not by falsely accusing them of having "bourgeois" characteristics and dismissing the revolution as non-existent, and especially not because of an issue of semantics.

looks like turkey is trying to prevent DFSNS from moving on Idlib

In all seriousness considering he joined a christian militia he was probably a religious nutjob that the Syriacs got tried of.

They usually route those guys out in the screening process. He must've been a real wacko, the MFS takes just about everyone.

Why dont they try to invade Afrin? Scared of pissing of the Kruds in Turkey or will it be to costly?

I guess Russia wants to see them contained not destroyed. Makes more sense then letting them invade and risking all the potential backlash from such a decision.

Compared to the drivel often posted on this thread; this criticism is actually well worth reading. Really good work.

That being said; I would say that Apoism has progressed beyond a Kurdish autonomy movement now. The PKK wants to bring down the Turkish government with communists and make a socialist Anatolia rather than make a separate Kurdistan, for instance.

what makes you think theyd want to expand there?

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I already posted this in the comment section but I'll post it here as well.

wtf is that rainbow colored map, i thought the war was almost over.

kek

Now I'm not in favor of using chemical weapons in war and shot
But I really wouldn't mind Assad and the Iraqi gov using some in north Syria and Iraqi Kurdistan t b h

The YPG doesn't force volunteers to stay, they just won't help you get back.

Yeah they should really take more IMF loans tbhfam :^)

Don't get your hopes up, Assad will be draghed bloody in the streets á la Gaddafi before that will happen :^)

Article from Rudaw on Russia's influence in maintaining the DFSNS. I know Rudaw is a Barzani moth piece but this article is decent nonetheless
rudaw.net/english/analysis/05102017

its just proxies and frienemies circlejerking on who is gonna own more oilwells and industrial zones.

both russia and iran, and conseqently syria are moving away from such organisations aswell as the petrodollar.
as soon as kurdistan or whatever is established as a kvasistate however loans will be pouring in like in every fresh "wetsern backed" "state"

kids like you said that in 2011.
all you got was videos of your jihadist friends getting vaporised by (completely legitimate) barrelbombs

If DFSNS is going to be receiving any economic support, it's most likely going to be coming from Syrian government or Russia

They dropped the awkward S long ago

Shit really? Source?

anfenglish.com/news/kck-warned-ankara-over-security-of-ocalan-22709

YFW Apo's death triggers a revolution in Turkey

sweet fuck kurds

Probably should make another thread about it tbh. This is ROJAVA general after all. Polite sage

Excuse me, can I get a quick heads up on what's going on right now?

Last I heard, Turkey is sending forces into Syria, with permission from Russia this time, in response to the declaration of independence by Iraqi Kurds.

So the faustian pact that the YPG made with the US was all for nothing, and they're STILL going to get invaded by Erdogan, because another Kurdish faction ejaculated prematurely. And this time, Turkey is not going to listen when the US tells them to back off, because those two are currently having a diplomatic row. Correct?

So is it time to start donating to the Kurdish Red Crescent again? :(

kurdistan is really progressing.

liveleak.com/view?i=40f_1508086833

turkey wont invade till things heat up enough between rojava and syria for them to pretend to be doing syria a favor by coming on their territory.
the conflict will most likely freeze over like in ukraine after IS is gone

DFNS(?) didn't make any faustian bargain to begin with. There was no deal for oil or resources, the deal was simply "you fight ISIS for us and once they're defeated you give us our stuff back", that's it. Damascus is actually pretty pissed about the turkroach incursion, and Russia's agenda is complicated. They don't want DFNS is come into hostilities with the Syrian government and they don't want confrontation with Turkey either so they're giving them some concessions by allowing them to contain afrin canton.

interesting if true, but as said previously

shouldnt leftypol have its own ME regional general?
the last time i visited pols syriageneral about dierezzor they had discussions on saudis, yemen, iraqi PMU and all kinds of things outside syria.
id like to see us here have a similar flexible general, but not the forced kind of shit like the mods tried to make the last time when they deleted our thread.

I'm fine with this being an ME general so long as people don't conflate KRG with the PYD

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I would be pretty surprised if it's not over by the end of October

today was a good day

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it's so obvious what your true colors are.

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I literally don't get why people who get mad at muslims all the time cheer on Turkey (ruled by a conservative islamist) and Baathist Syria (which is making overtures to islamists) as they are setting up to destroy one of the most secular forces in the middle east

Literally why. Assad didn't give a shit about honour killings in his own country before 2011 and he probably doesn't today.

you clearly don't have a clue what your talking about. go discuss something you're more adept at like Jewish blood rituals.

The government of Syria has been doing virtually nothing for the last six years EXCEPT fighting islamists

its a war what help is offered must be taken

And like I said Assad probably wouldn't give a shit if islamists turned the country into a medieval salafist shithole as long as he was still dictator of that shithole

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Probably just from Holla Forums tbh

The roundabout fell today too. Now it's just the stadium and national hospital. With all the Syrian conscripts out now it's just forgein fighters realizing how fucked they are lol.

Raqqa has been captured

See and all the alliances that the SDF has made with the Syrian government and Russia.

And this doesn't apply to Rojava taking military help from the US?

thats just the burgers and local european outback hicks
syria is secular.
and i didnt hear this argument up untill 2017 regarding the syrian war from certain flags on here
theyre pretty rampant in SDF areas. they just register them as part of the war fighting

i guess youre the kind of dumbass that beleives that WW1 was a coincidental result of complicated alliances

nice argument. where were you from 2011-2017?

the syrian goverment is the best option for the entire region :^)

"I simply love killing": Outed British mercenary fighting ISIS in Syria says toll of 26 dead militants "isn't enough"
mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/i-simply-love-killing-outed-11354129
The mercenary was quoted as saying: " I simply love killing, and it doesn't matter who my enemy is: ISIS, Assad or Barzani (the leader of Iraqi Kurdistan).
"Give me a gun, and I'll fight."
He had "happened to kill Russians", the mercenary admitted to local journalists.

Hmmmmm

Rustem Cudi was a genuine revolutionary you shitstain.
"Revolution is not only war and acrying weapons, revolution means to understand life right. To defend this life and the values of humanity, we are ready, for a the victory in this heavy war.”
t. Gunter Hellstein

That and the fact the guy has supposedly recovered completely from his terminal existence failure and is now a decade or so younger and British.

I thought the user was drawing a parallel not saying they were the same lamo.

when did he kill russian and syrian soldiers?

the difference is one of these groups is a lot more likely to be a imperialist puppet assigned to carve up the nation then the other

now dont get me wrong i also dislike the amount of the influence the russian goverment holds over the nation at this point
but the SDF are obvious U.S puppets
i can see where this conflict is going
the regime change failed so now the U.S is attempting to carve up the nation

youve been reading my posts.
salam brother

Check the map Raqqa has been taken.

new thread lads