This is the general thread for the vote of a independant Catalonia

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Oh wait
makes sense

is there actually any chance of that? memes and shit aside I was under the impression that the current independence movement was a fairly generic right-wing-ish nationalist deal.

They kinda have.
I mean they have 2 ships docked in Barcelona filled with police or actual army I can't remember.
The situation is kind of tense

That's cool actually. So Popular Unity Candidacy are sort of libertarian municipalists like Rojava? What are the other pro-independence parties like and what could realistically come out of this?

No. People are just being retarded.

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Outside of your fantasies there is no communalist project about to take over Catalonia. This is an ethno-nationalist struggle which is only getting attention here because of Spanish Civil War nostalgia.

communalists are utopians

CUP is not outright communalist but close enough to it, and they're more likely to gain traction in an independent Catalonia

Heh, its weird that the far left in Iberia used to be pan-nat, not separatists.

that's not at all what I'm saying

What are you saying then?

This is mostly a right wing endeavor.

bbc.com/news/world-europe-35217593

Here's a jacobin article on the CUP from a year ago
jacobinmag.com/2016/06/catalonia-independence-spain-cup-jxsi-podemos-separatists-mas-puigdemont/

holy shit

top fucking kek

given American history, and how American libs would feel about likely American secessionist movements (Texas), its hypocritical for them to support Catalonian independence

I haven't really heard of american libs supporting this (or even knowing anything about it) Unless you're accusing people ITT of being american libs, and in that case my response is no u

The CUP is irrelevant.

no u

Why should we give a fuck about petty nationalism?

Because of the revolutionary conditions it could create. Is Rajoy cracks down, you think the 17% unemployed are gonna riot or nah?

Apart from accelerationism, any other justification is reactionary

Assume Spain breaks out in revolution. Then what? It'll be crushed and that's that.

This is not anarchist Catalonia just some retarded nationalists.

The catalan independentist movement is bourgie as fuck. All the muh culture shit is actually an excuse and the real reason is that independentists don't want to support poorer regions of spain. The cup are a bunch of opportunists and lifestylists who are siding with ciu, the catalan bourgeoise party, who, surprise surprise, was the first party to push for a seccessionist movement.

Trust me when I say that this will not benefit the working class, I am born and raised in Barcelona and I know it. The only reason that I see to support secession is accelerationism and it could backfire tremendously.

To anyone that is actually considering supporting this rubbish.
Please understand two simple things:
1. An independent Catalonia would be a socialist state, it would be a Neo-liberal one.
2. An independent Catalonia would not be financially solvent, as the EU has already made it clear that they would not allow for an independent Catalonia to join their trade bloc.

If anyone here cares about actually improving the lives of the people of Catalonia and other such areas of Spain.
Look into supporting an Iberian federalist movement.
As at-least a Federation of Iberian States could ensure both protections for the various peoples of the peninsular and economic survival.

Like: Galicia, Asturias, Valencia, Euskadi…
It's just a struggle between the spanish and catalan bourgies.
I'ts actually very fucked up, Cataluña is one of the richest regions of Spain, and some of the arguments the nationalist use is that they don't want to pay for the unemployed from the rest of the country. It's just right wing nationalism, and half of the spanish commies are falling for it.

This.

I dunno man, a mass insurrection of the mass employed could really send shockwaves through Europe.

Read it nigger.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Unity_Candidacy There’s multiple independence parties. Some are cool, some are shit.

If by 'shockwaves' you mean 'give the neo-liberals of the world an excuse to further crack down on unions and workers rights', then sure.
It certainly would send out shockwaves all over the world.

You are living in a fantasy world if you think that a labour uprising in the EU of all places would result in anything other then a bunch of dead workers and the proles of the western world having their few remaining labour rights stripped from them.
It is not the early 20th century anymore, that ship sailed long before you or I were even born.

Center-right national liberals and sucdems

The balkanization of Spain. If Catalonia get;s indepence then the Basques will start fighting harder and if the Basques succeed then it’s likely they’ll go ML. Catalonia will probly become neoliberal though.

This is your daily reminder basque country>Cuckalonia

Reminder if this succeeds it could balkanize Spain and help destroy the EU.

New Spanish civil war when?

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ITT: we have Holla Forums users honestly thinking that the bourgeoisie wouldn't just give Catalonia its independence to stabilize the situation and quell revolutionary potential

Maybe they will maybe they won’t. A small possibility of socialism is greater then no possibility of socialism.

That sounds pretty good.

Nice reflexive impotence fam

What's the biggest left wing party in Catalonia?

It is simple realism, friend.
The fact of the matter is that it is a trivial task for a modern military force to crush an uprising in a developed nation.
It is also a fact that should the workers start rejecting the neo-liberal party line, they will be punished by the powers that be in short order.
As I said before, it is not the early 20th century any-more and the strategies for gaining power that may have worked then, do not work now.

Attempting to apply retrograde strategies to the modern world is not only doomed to failure, but is little more then particularly embarrassing LARPing.

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When has there been a serious uprising in a developed nation to test this claim though? The closest thing is the Ukranian riots which have turned into a full on war that hasn't stopped yet.

It's not the early 20th century for the populace either. I agree with the claim that things need to move on, but at the same time the claim that the modern state is beyond the reach of its own populace is ridiculous. Modern states require huge amounts of infrastructure to keep running.

...

Supporting right-wing nationalism just for the sake of it…

I do concede that there has not yet been such an uprising to prove my point.
But I would consider the hopelessness of some 20th century vision of a mass workers revolt to be rather evident when applied to the modern world.

Universal data collection and monitoring has made it more difficult then ever to organise in a clandestine manner.
Liberal gun laws have made it more difficult then ever to arm a population to any real degree.
Police militarisation and anti-terror units have made it more difficult then ever for a revolt to not be immediately crushed by the state.
Decades of COINTELPRO have made it more difficult then ever to form a nucleus of like minded people to build a movement around.
And finally, complete neo-liberal domination of the media has ensured that the majority of any given western population would not only not participate in an uprising, but would be actively hostile to it.

All of that is even ignoring the simple reality that should a neo-liberal state fall to an uprising.
The neo-liberal global hegemony has ensured that a neo-liberal state with a professional military quite capable of handling some workers militias is always right next door and more then happy to restore the deposed government.

Given just how bad things are.
The more optimistic side of me would want to explore rather heterodox solutions to gaining power (such as gaining the loyalty of the states military).
Yet my more pessimistic side would want to simply achieve the most fair society possible under a social democracy and hope to built a state capable of weathering the further decent of global capitalism into ever more monstrous forms.

I sincerely hope to be wrong.
But I really do worry that we may have missed to boat in regards to making a clean break with capitalism.

Soon we'll have yet another deregulated fiscal haven parasite right in Europe, amazing, truly /ourtime/

Isn't that Pujol's party, who got a huge corruption scandal, who rivals the shit PP is doing, uncovered some years ago?
Catalonian workers will be even more fucked if they get the independence.

fuck off, pls Holla Forums stop being this retarded

Holla Forums in a post tbh

Funny how they get to keep their language, their culture, some of the best jobs in Spain and their vote counts more than the rest of the country in general elections.
Fuck that rethoric.

Boy, I hope there's a second Catalonian Revolution.

A la barricadas, camaradas!
youtube.com/watch?v=Odrfx7WmNWQ

you understand that this is supported by a bunch of conservatives so that in the ensuing chaos the social-systems can be gutted right?

You understand that the reason Catalonya and Basque Country wants to leave is because Spain is always deals with them in brute force, that because in Spain most of the times the PP is in charge (which is just a mellowed out Falange party), which isn't helped by the fact that the voting system always favours the conservatives and that most of the Catalans and Basque are in favour of Republicanism.

Sure you can claim Catalonya independence favours the porky. But porky also gains from it staying with Spain.

And in either case it's the workers that get fucked.

Except it's just a porky pissing match that has little to absolutely nothing to do with socialism.
It's the same garbage with almost every "national-liberation" movement.

If this liberation isn't socialist, why should I support it? Imperialism may be the highest form of capitalism, but it's not the only one.

...

I mean if they were just having a vote that went without any hitches I wouldn't really have a side other than the fact maybe an independent Catalonia would be slightly more likely to turn socialist don't quote me on that, I'm not well informed. But the Spanish government trying to suppress and stop it make you want to root against them. I don't think it's a huge case of leftist politics really.
I do like their flag though.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Unity_Candidacy

Mosern militaries are shit at guerrilla warfare. What is Afganistan.

It is though
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Unity_Candidacy

Catalonia's independence movement is just thinly veiled nationalism.

Tbh we should support this: not because of hte actual independence of Catalonia itself but the revolutionary conditions it could create in Spain. If Rajoy decides to crack down on this, it could see a back-lash that is revolutionary spontaneous in nature. Spain has 17% unemployment, there is the potential there. This could be the spark.

This tbh, I don't understand why leftists must wait for the perfect purest revolution possible.
I mean unless you are a believer in spontaneous revolution, you need to craft these movements. That doesn't mean that you can't jump into a revolution in its early birth period and work to turn it into an anticapitalist movement.

Also if Spain balkanizes and the Basques become independent there’s a good chance they go ML.

Most of them are rightwingers basing the catexit on xenophobic beliefs, and the political party leading this is a neoliberal right wing party, so it won't

Anyway, democracy is democracy, and voting is part of it. Also, the economical crisis that would turn out of this event could change that. Full support.

Meanwhile in France, actual class struggle happening right now…

What does this map mean?

Each flag marks the ip location of all the registered tankies on the board.

A general strike (the second one in a month I think) against Macron's work reform. Each flag represents a rally.

Wait there’s people in Corsica that work in workplaces bug enough to have strikes.

So, will it last more than 3 years this time?

I really dont give a shit about these separatist movements as long as they join EU.

Literally what's the point?
If Ireland stayed with GB at least they'd be out of EU by now.

If the CNT-FAI start a revolution im going there nigga

State syndicalism in France when

Whatever they won’t join the EU or the Euro because Spain will Veto there membership. Eventually they’ll give up on the EU.

Is the Motherland calling? Holla Forums International Brigade in defense of Catalonia when?

SIGN ME UP

We're coming bucko

Best not fuck it up this time faggots. We have all read our holy book.

This is the level of delusion we're on right now; inserting the actual historical proletarian uprising that was the Spanish revolution as a narrative into a modern nationalist/secessionist movement spearheaded by bourgeois ideologues.

We have to unite the anarchists and the marxists nigga

There's more chance of a leftist uprising in Catalonia than the rest of spain right now, it's at 1% but it's fun to LARP because my life is pathetic

Im totally down man. As long as we all agree on working class revolution then we are on the same side, politics can be figured out later.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Unity_Candidacy

Fuck yea

I've never seen this much [CITATION NEEDED] in a Wikipedia article before, and this is just a single screenshot because the rest of the article is littered without sources.

And this still means absolutely squat. Know what other party calls itself the socialist party and is actually little more than social democracy? The Spanish Socialist Party. These are meaningless nominators and classifiers that don't suggest in the slightest that the actual form of what they stand for is more than welfare capitalism, perhaps a little more localistic and democratic. Before that however is the principle theme upon which it all stands: secessionism and nationalism. Don't be another sucker for the first next thing waving the red flag.

Sorry, but as a communalist the last paragraph is to tempting. Even if there Socdems.

idea: Basques go independent and become ML but American Tankies pledge critical support for the Spanish police force against Basque imperialism.

The spanish leftist twitter is a clusterfuck right now, people quote mining Lenin and Stalin, taking their writing out of context to support their side, calling you nazbol if you are pro-Ref but against secession, calling you coward if you don't pick a side…
To be honest, the problem with Spain is the denomination of nation itself and the 78' constitution. Spain is a multi-national state and it should be a federation.
I myself can't pick a side, but this whole thing reminds me of the "colout revolutions"…
Good article on this issue: marxist.com/the-independence-referendum-and-the-catalan-national-question.htm

But Spain is part of NATO.

It should be a confederation. It is currently a federation.

I actually believe this is something tankies could do

Dude, contemporary Catalonia is one of the bougiest areas of Europe. The only reason this shindig is happening is because Catalan porkies don't want muh taxes to fund other parts of Spain. Also some nationalism spookery, like another user said.

Independence now

I thought the majority of people here would support the independence of Catalonia (a lot of people used to shill for this), what changed ?
The party pushing for this is Junts pel Sí, as far as I know a left-wing party.

Definitely a happening man. How can we help our comrades out in their struggle?

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Junts pel si is a coalition between various parties, the biggest two being conergéncia i unió (ciu), center right porkies, and esquerra republicana (erc), center left. The first one to propose the independence movement was ciu btw.

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Their fight right now is for Democracy and Self-Determination. This can amount to something m8. All four socialist parties in Catalonia are in favor of this, so the working class is taking action, and as an Anarchist myself, I dream of the red flags from every balcony, like Orwell told in Homage. I wish he could see it today.

They are not our comrades, they are mostly spooked libs.

Holy fuck, the mods deleted my original comment. Way to go fuckers, deleting genuine leftists while trolls and polyps go around doing whatever they want.
You probably don't even know shit about what is happening in my city. I was even defending you in another thread, now I know why everyone hates you.

its just the sad truth

its hard to motivate people with class solidarity, if you think about it a lot of the successful communist revolutions/regimes acquired their power or kept it thanks to national liberation movements or something of that sort, I mean the Kurds in ROjava today are successful thanks to the oppression they as a people. Cuba was nationalism, Maoists were a reaction to Japanese imperialism etc etc

the Russian revolution is maybe the most communist revolution, and that was perhaps with the benefit of not having a bourgoise revolution and jumping right past that stage, with Stalin it of course got more nationalistic

False only esquerra (neoliberal-succdems) and CUP(radical succdems)
The PSUC Podemos and PSC reject thsi referndum

Don't get your hopes up there won't be any red flags.

They dont need the fucking PSUC, they already fucked it up once. Tankies need not apply

I'm kinda excited at the prospect in my conscious life time there has been no proper conflict in Europe. Following the Ukraine conflict was exciting as hell, but still it was pretty standard Russia stuff at the end of the day

Bring on the spectacle

the tears of the modern day milk toast falangists are indeed delicious

The Spanish Gvt is already moving in tanks.
>twitter.com/search?f=videos&vertical=default&q=#CatalanReferendum&src=tyah

CNT also rejects the way the referendum is being taken as it says it divides the working class

In any American state that held a referendum on secession the populous voted no. It was just local elites who wanted to keep the current power structures and get some more power for themselves

muh dik

this is gonna be so fun, it will be syria civil war map watch but on steroids

Wtf are you talking about? A hashtag isn't a source.

There are videos on there of Tanks being trained in and Jets flying over the countryside. Spain isn't trying to let this go down man.

No one is moving the tanks man, and the Catalan burgeoise (who is leading the referendum) will not do anything

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“I have no particular love for the idealized “Catalan” as he appears in the bourgeois Communist’s mind, but when I see an actual flesh-and-blood Catalan in conflict with his natural enemy, the "Spaniard", I do not have to ask myself which side I am on.”

t. Georgie Orwell

the next Barca vs Real Mardid game is gonna be so hot

It is a 2014 video mate, don't believe literaly everything you see user
youtube.com/watch?v=sX1UiBHOF0c

Dude I live here and this is false.
They reorganized the military recently and converted the mountain unit of catalonia into a mechanized unit, so that's why they moved tanks some months ago. If you don't provide a date I don't believe that this video has been filmed this month.

Damn you were faster.

spain.liveuamap.com/en/

Assange is good now

twitter.com/julianassange/status/911310737796157440

Yeah, I'm really investigating the affair and the referendum seems like shit as most people will not even be able to vote, and there is not going to be a census so vote fraud is 100% posible
Still the right-wing Spanish goverment is sending the police, and not listening to the people..
Probably the ideal exit from this will be a third Spanish federal republic.
And the most realistic approach will be a pacted referenum between the central goverment and Catalan one (and from what I've gathered they will vote similar to Scotland)

Holla Forums ABSOLUTELY BTFO

Tbh I will probably vote no since I do support a referendum taking place (just to end the whole mess), but it is clear to anyone who has done some research that the independence won't benefit anyone outside the political and economic catalan elite.

Again this will be a major blow to the neo-Francoist PP. Also the smaller nation-states are the easer it is to take them over in a revolution. It’s much easer to spread the idea of communism to a group of one million people then fifty million people. And once there’s a solid working example then support all over will increase. We must balkanize nation states as much as possible.

while i don't have in-depth knowledge of the catalan situation, there could possibly be merit to the "not wanting to fund other areas" argument if the main government of spain is using the funds inappropriately.

consider scottish oil: the case for independence would be much weaker were oil revenues used to make the average person in the UK better off [rather than making everyone in Scotland scandi-tier well off], but they weren't - they were squandered on subsidizing mass unemployment (rather than investing in industry to solve the issue), tax cuts for the wealthy and a massive subsidy to London porkies. At least if you subsidize Edinburgh porkies, there's indirect benefit for the working class closer to home and the various benefits of decentralising power.

Holla Forums probably opposes the independence of catalonia because it's been backed by Soros.
I'm Spanish, I live in Valencia, just under Catalonia, I can tell you this is thinly veiled identitarianism that has been memed into everyone's head, most of the reasons are basically economical.
Spain is one of the most decentralized countries to exist, they just want more and more power.

This tbh, Rajoy handled the situation like an idiot, just give them their referendum, after all that's what most people wanted, polls showed that NO was likely to win. Now with all the police and all the circus the Catalan people will only feel more victimized and determined to leave Spain, this can only escalate.

While Catalonia has one of the highest incomes it also is one of the top autonomous community when it comes to debt, so it balances out. The economical argument Brexit-tier, poorly researched data and appeal to feelings.

As an Spanish this fucking identitarianism dating to the Civil war makes me sick, people are still butthurt over something that happened many decades ago, I had a Valencian teacher who was extremely biased, they all keep trying to push their narrative from both sides and it's sad to watch. Was Franco's dictatorship justified or goood? Not at all. Was the "Frente Popular" massive electoral fraud in 1936 that allowed the Republic to keep it's power and probably sparked the civil war justified? Not either. Either sides are cancer, the sooner we realize this the better.

I need to know something, Holla Forums is pro or against the independence of Catalonia ?
My opinions are based on what the exactly opposed Holla Forums would do.

There's only one thread on Holla Forums and the OP is calling the Spanish government crypto jews, interpret that as you wish.

Holla Forums is against it because “divides the white race. “ I support independence because the smaller nation states are the easer it is for a revolution to succeed in them. It’s easer to convince one million people to support communism then fifty million.

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There will be no revolution, only power. The majority of the Parliament in Barcelona is left wing, if they separate from Spain their power will only increase and history will repeat itself like all those "socialist" countries with one party systems with fictional democracies. You guys never get tired of fucking things up, don't you? I can already see it coming:
I know this because I live there and I can see how identitarian and cancerous both groups are.

better a one party fictional democracy than a two party fictional democracy.

Better a one-party Marxist-Leninist State then fake democracy of the rich.

Have you considered ethno-socialism????
youtube.com/watch?v=27PBIJU03VM
HMMM????

A valid point, but here we have the country's wealthiest part wanting to go split. It's probably that Porky just doesn't want other people benefitting from his dosh and that's it. Remember the early crisis during Evo's regime in Bolivia? The richest part of the country was demanding """autonomy""", and I can tell you for a fact that this happened because they didn't want their tax money to develop the rest of Bolivia and their filthy cholo peasants.

twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/911362865826811909
rekt

twitter.com/MrFrexit/status/911371503509307392

Center-right are the real leftists.

I dont think Catalan independence would be a good thing. Spain's voice in the EU would be weakened, and Germoney's strength would be even greater.

A question for the Spaniards ITT

Who besides of based Podemos and Convergència is backing the referendum? Also what the fuck is wrong with PSOE?

That would trigger the Basque independence as well. Rajoy won't allow it.

holy shit the comments under it are batshit lmao

While this is true. Catalonian idpol is intertwined with socialism. So in a way Rajoy going full Franco might lit that spark.

SHIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET
me too, let's meet

…jesus fucking christ

Spain is massively decentralized, it's not like Murrica, even if the Spanish government has only a couple of parties in power, Catalonia has it's own government with other parties, and the town you live in inside of Catalonia has also got mayors from different parties which you can elect and which will have a bigger effect on your daily life than the central government.

Bump.

what do you guys think will happen on october 1st and the days after?

so are the absolute madmen about to do it?

Probably nothing of importance.
T. Spanish

lmao this isn't what he said. ur probably just meming but the real quote replaces "catalan" with "worker" and "spaniard" with "police officer"

Never change Holla Forums

I support it because I'm #TeamChaos

this

There will be a military intervention.
The EU already gave Rajoy the sign, that they will not do anything if he does.

Situation in Catalonia 'World's First Internet War' - Assange

twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/913925030685405185

twitter.com/JulianAssange/status/913920102411718656

Do you have a youtube video of this?

The separatists don't even have the majority of the support, is it really fair to call it 'the most significant Western conflict between people and state since the fall of the Berlin wall'?

What else would qualify?

Except they do, at-least according to polling, an absolute majority of the electorate support independence.

No.

...

According to other pollings, only 48% do.

That's why you have a referendum to find out the people's actual choice.

What's an ETA.

I've seen the opposite virtually everywhere. Do you have sources?

First of all, that's not what "decentralized" means, in terms of territorial organization, Spain is more centralized than the US (albeit less than France).
Secondly, ever since 1977, there have been three different parties in power, and I wouldn't really count Adolfo Suárez.
Catalonia and Euskadi are the only regions which do actually escape to the PSOE/PP duality (arguably Madrid and Valencia, to a certain extent, since the 2015/2016 elections as well), which happen to be the two only real separatist regions (Galician, Balearic and Valencian independentists are a joke, not even gonna bother mentioning Asturians and Andalusians).

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catalan_independence_referendum,_2017#On_the_1_October_2017_referendum

Certain to vote is kinda important, about 62% say they are.

ETA is a dead organization that no one in the Basque Country actually supports.

Sure, I don't think anyone in here is against the referendum in itself.

Well some will be, rabid unionists exist everywhere (I remember the Scottish independence referendum).

...

Catalonia’s independence movement isn’t socialist, but we should support it because the more Balkanized nation-states are the easer it is to have a revolution in one of them. It’s easer to convince ten million people to support socialism then fifty million.

When you have 80% of like 60% saying they support something, the maths shows extremely near or over the absolute majority of the electorate in support of independence.

No, we should support it because it creates revolutionary conditions and forces the Spain booj state to collapse.

CATALONIA IS NAZBOL
SISISISISISISISISISISISISISISISISISISISISISISISI
reddit.com/r/vexillology/comments/73e224/one_of_the_catalonian_proindepence_referendum/

< 0.8 * 0.6 = 0.48, 0.48 < 0.5
Yup. That's what the maths show. Quite a small number for an "overwhelming majority".
And the number is probably even lower due to current tension and poor handling of the situation by the Spanish government.

Did Serbia collapse after the independence of either Montenegro or Kosovo? Because these are the closest European independences I can think of, and they didn't result in anything near a Communist revolution.
Is this why all major socialist movements happened in large countries (France, Germany, Russia, China) while smaller countries only got populist Soviet puppet governments?

Is it, dare I say it, fucking over?

No. It would have been fucking over with an actual referendum, but now Catalans will rightly continue fighting and radicalizing on the independence/non-independence spectrum

more people support the independence now because of the central goberment actions. it`s no over is just the begining.

>podricing.pw/posts/1191416
la3.org/~kilburn/blog/catalan-government-bypass-ipfs/

not much surprise, they say the same about Venezuela's referendums

ETA was founded by students laid off a right-wing nationalist party just to fight Franco, the left-wing faction that took over came later; and afterwards they just became petit bourgeoisie. I personally can't, however condemn the actions against bankers and prison officers since the regime is in its root corrupt since the so called transition and it sometimes uses torture methods and such

Ok guys, catalonian here, there are people passing a message of occupying a highschool where the referendum will be voted, and to defend it from the Guardia Civil if the spanish state wants to go full Franco.
The guy who sent me the message is pretty left-wing, as I am, and the group occupying it's too, since not everybody wants the independence (My city isn't really independentist), but more leaning to anarchist/communist stances.
What to do?
It is cointelpro?

Spaniards sing the Fascists anthem in Madrid "Facing the Sun" un Madrid. Ordinary people not political militants.
twitter.com/CataloniaHelp2/status/914131859654639616

uhhh ????

Rooting for you from burgerland, Make Catalonia Great Again. Assuming it isn't a trap.

Well this happened twitter.com/CatalansForYes/status/914234457661542401

Sage by mistake.

Spaniard here, I hopes this escalates into a full class war

Those people are as "ordinary" as the guys from charlottesville.

Same here M8

Arab-Iberians are Aryans.

Try organizing a union strike. If the Spanish government is willing to suppress Catalonia’s referendum, then they’ll probably suppress the strike. If they do it’ll lead to a massive working class backlash.

well in this part of the country. the people are putting flags in their windows to support the central government and the unity of the country, so we are uhh fucked

If Rajoy pulls out the tanks for something as silly as this, as the rumors point out, the backlash would be huge.
It would force him to resign and force another elections for next year at the very least.

Fuck, where do you live?
Where I live people tend to be neutral on the issue, but then again there was never much spanish patriotism in the region.

Aragon my friend, the people here is turning fucking crazy

FUCK

If this shit lights off, Im joining the International Brigade to fight for Catalonia.

youtube.com/watch?v=ehzC937Q9Dc

They did a piece on this on NPR the other day. They started the piece by saying "what are not often heard in these referenda are voices for staying", described how some people wanted independence, and then every single person they actually interviewed was for staying in Spain. Real balanced fucking journalism.

The NPR report today on it was cut half way through. They put on a fucking ad over the report from their guy on the ground.

Catalan Independency is nationalist shit, being happy of it is no more intelligent as being happy for successes of Anita Sarkeesian in Gamergate in US.

I thought Madrid and Castile were the only Spanish Patriotic regions.

Where do you find these polls? Last I heard "yes" winning was a done deal.

Haahahahaha the ideology in this country is very strong

Shit is going down, lads. Police are already spazzing out.

twitter.com/CridaDemocracia/status/914386562258960385

When will results start rolling in?

i think the police are confiscating ballot boxes and destroying them

they can try, but either way this is a totally blundered response. Either the vote goes forward or independence calls get louder and more justified. who thought it was a good idea to send the police into places and beat people just trying to vote? lmao

Is there any chance of some kind of civil war

Rubber bullets fired by police
twitter.com/JordiGraupera/status/914406594779205632

The ABSOLUTE STATE of the police
twitter.com/orioldebalanzo/status/914403962073251840

Valencia too.

Not really.

t.larper

That's PP for you.

Why is Holla Forums not really talking about this? The police are beating the shit out of people ffs

...

twitter.com/goikoleaigor/status/914407960826322944
Top lel

Firefighters have always been /ourguys/

There has been one barricade built, which made me grin. If only this was about class and not petty nationalism.

Firefighters and policemen usually know each other very well for doing joint exercices and working together in numerous occasions
The police probably is hesitating to hurt a well-liked public figure who also might be their friends

This shit will go nasty for every country in the EU. Doesn't matter if you win or lose. I don't take sides here. Anarchist are no good

Fucking christ twitter.com/AngryScotland/status/914435823239561216

Because is shameful larping. I don't take sides because there is 0 reasoning behind this. You guys made a mistake. Anarchist are LARPers. The state is shit too. So I don't take sides here. Whoever comes out as a winner will ruin the rest of europe.

heh

it's starting again…

Franco’s body a soul lives on in the PP.

Only going to give further support to the independence campaign by doing that they could of let it all blow over and it's likely most people would of forgotten it.
Now their just drumming up support for the Catalonians

Fascism in Spain never died, it just got a vial.

Because they're fighting for petty nationalist aspirations. It doesn't matter to the class struggle, except perhaps by reminding Europe that the police is there to serve the interests of the state and not to protect you.

Military Intervention when?
Reminder as a remnant of the Franco era, the Guarda Civil is a paramilitary organisation that plays being police.

businessinsider.com/julian-assange-catalonia-independence-movement-and-referendum-spain-2017-9
Lol they're already pulling the russia narrative

capitalist action, i fix'd it for you

do they shout "ca-capi-capitalista" on the independence riots?

NO PASARAN
A-C-A-B
anycunt here who doesn't support national liberation can fight me IRL

Wow you guys are into this whole Catalonian nationalism thing? Lmao, nobody has the right to shit on tankies who support national liberation movements anymore after this thread

Fucking larper.

fucking austist. Clearly nobody is going to fight IRL

You didn't purge them all and neither did Franco.
This is what a job half done looks like.

They call us LARPers and idiots, while they are always the one who dostream dumb shit

Why did Spain decide to go full retard instead of looking at how Canada and the UK handled independence referendums?

Old habits die hard.
PP is full of "former" Falangists

Because unlike the UK which is a country of countries and Canada which is a federal state, Spain is a unitary state with functions devolved to regions
From which it is impossible to secede. They have those "one and indivisible" clauses in the constitution.

Spain also depends a bit more on Catalonia that the UK does on Scotland.

Spain was always a country of countries, and unlike the UK the regions here actually have their own language.
Cataluña has catalan
Valencia has valenciano, which is like catalan but changed a bit
There is basque in the Euskadi region
Gallego in galicia
All this regions always had big independence movements.

twitter.com/jeremycorbyn/status/914468254986448899

beating on emergency services in uniform is always a good look

Because you don't get independence via referendum as the Kurds show, you get it through armed struggle

This movement has less to do with Catalonian Nationalism and more to do with wanting to leave the corrupt and socially backwards country that is Spain.

They are beating up elderly people aswell
twitter.com/twitter/statuses/914427882117746688

"Spanish police has broken the fingers of this girl who wanted to vote one by one"

twitter.com/janarkopunk/status/914477198601543680

…I was talking more about the police violence. I don't really care (because way too little informed about it) as well but the police has been fucking disgusting today.

the spanish goverment fucked up with their response
i think the left in spain should protest against the oppression of rights

Dogs gonna dogs.

That's what middle-classes for aboard Catalonya actually believe.

That's fucking unprofessional and downright terrifying
Who gave the order and why did they follow through and applied it with such zeal ? The Guarda Civil was always more or less linked with Franco's regime and was extremely militarised due to ETA's terrorism, but I would honestly believe this was the past

Yeah, but the form is different. Scotland is considered a country administratively, and while Catalonia does have a rich history and can be considered its own country, it administratively isn't

Yes, that as well.

More like the central government is panicking and giving orders to go in loud and they apply it without restraints.

Yes, it should, but without support for independence of riddiculous pseudo-state instead of international class struggle.

"Regional Police protecting their people from Spain's National police !!!"

twitter.com/NicBoothby/status/914482694293262337

Strange. I thought the central government had suspended autonomy from Catalonia, effectively getting control over the local law enforcement.

...

It boils down to

I'm just sad to see Republican order falling down

t. socdem

If Catalonian uprising is coming I'm coming bro.

t. Dutchfag

A fucking rose.

But really, what do you think would happen if something """revolutionary""" happens, not to forget that their desire for independence is purely economical at this point ?

They have complete linguistic and cultural autonomy, in fact you need to be fluent in Catalan to get most public jobs. So it's purely because they don't want to be part of Spain any more, and purely for the money.

Rajoy is applying fascist techniques and the police is being particularly zealous and violent about it, but you have to be really idealistic if you believe something revolutionary is happening here, or could happen in the first place.

Well, with today's events unfolding I can't agree with you on that.

May 68 was on much grander scale than that and while it changed society a bit it died pretty quick
However will Rajoy make the choices that would end the revolution before it starts ? Who knows.

Also never underestimate the power of political apathy.

It's always good for leftst to support wealthy nationalists in their faight against poor people, right?

I voted two hours ago and it was pretty calm. Nothing remarkable apart from a couple of policemen standing a street from where I was and that the people on the table just wrote down my data instead of uploading it to an informatic program that was meant for that purpose. Nothing revolutionary will come out of this.

/thread

hahahahaha police using rubber bullets and breaking bones to keep citizens from voting

and then other police have to protect people from that police

this is turning into some Dr Strangelove shit

Any leftist who support this capitalist spectacle is making himself selling slut of wealthy capitalists and Catalan bourgies.

Agenda of this so called "separatism" is to:
- not share income with poorest regions of Spain
- get rid of the monarchy, which is perceived as feudal relict and conservative log on the road to build modern capitalism
- unite people of Catalonya in petit bourgeoise national identity

Only fraction of CNT that supports independence is reformist class traitors, expelled from the International Workers Association for occupying seats in the company's supervisory boards, evicting people from private owned property, reporting to the Police about leftist terrorist organizations, sueing comrades to courts and many other strong examples of class collaboration.

Comrades! Don't be blind! Don't forget about necessity of worker's unity! Nationalist struggle is not solution!

kekking at East Germany

Which one? Both sides are a farce.

Yes, that's exaclty what I wanted to wrote.

Because the rulering Part of Spain is full of former Franco supporters.

And because of this what you see now, fascists will be even stronger in Spain. That's what you wanted?
Betray your fellow workers from porest regions of Castile and Andalusia?
This is the moral capitulation of the left.

Bordiga has right, this kind of Antifa is pure class collaborationist, and differs nothing from fascism that it fights.

Balkanizing nation-states will make revolution easer.

Go resist Rajoy and pray for the "oppressed" Catalan nation elsewhere.

THE ABSOLUTE BOY

So then, is this referendum just about the region called Catalonya, or the three regions that make up historical Catalonya?

It's time for a UN intervention in Spain. The tyrannical dictator Mariano Rajoy has attacked his people and democracy. Sad!

What about supporting it for the memes/chaos? Chaos is a ladder friendo, the left in Catalonia could use this as a way to gain support or influence.

...

Also fuck Spain’s monarchy.

Only ones who're gaining on this "chaos" are fascists.

It's still early days you big crybaby.

No, it don't - becuase this process will lead working class to be divided on nationalist basis and then fighting each other. As in Balkans - if you would study history more, you could find that Balkanization didn't lead to any libertarian socialist revolution but to several nationalist genocides lead by fascists militants and general fascisation of former Yugoslavian societies.

Yeah, we should force them to remain in a monarchist state lead by a fascist successor party.

It’s easer to convince one million people to support socialism, then ten million.

It's only for the actual catalonia. You are talking about the catalan countries, which is only a linguistic and cultural division integrated by Valencia, Catalonia and the Balearic Islands.
Valencia and the Balearic islands have their own culture too, it's just that these three regions share the same language and some other aspects.

The working class isn’t fighting each other. The police is fighting the working class. Catalonia is more wealthy because it’s more industrialized, not because it has more porkies.

Please, read, learn and think more. This kind of "chaos" based on division of working class on fighting each other basing on nationalist agenda, leads to no libertarian socialist revolution but only to fascism, and more fascsism.
Never, at any point of history, class collaboration and submitting to petty bourgeoise agenda had lead to socialist revolution - it always lead to something strictly contrary: rise of fascism.

And you still do the same fucking thing, and still ask yourself "why people are so fascist", "why they don't want out libertarian revolution".

That's why they shit on our libertarian revolution, when we say they need to work more and earn less, to nationalist bourgies in Catalonia have nation state !!!!

So how Catalan separatism will improve live conditions in Andalucia?

…as opposed to a republican state led by neoliberal porkies? Most of us are in favor of a referendum taking place, it's just that the independence movement is all about economics and petty nationalism.

Come on my man.

It won’t, but it won’t harm them eather.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Unity_Candidacy
Direct democracy is good.

Begin thinking any time.

back to history you englando's

The current spanish regime was implemented after Franco wrote that when he died the power would go back to the monarchy which helped create a liberal democracy like in every other country.
Franco's idea was to fortify Spanish national identity over the other regions with the King as the symbol of Spain.

By making Catalonia independent Franco's idea for spain + the monarchy will lose it's legitimacy since it couldn't even solidify its own territory. The meaning of spanish identity would change forever with this and can propel other regions to become independent also.
i dont think that the current Catalonia government has the balls to do it

+ im portuguese and we got our independence in 1640 because of the Catalan uprisings ;D

And what's he sense for all that "struggle" in a United Europe? Objectives?

Stop trying to pass CUP as having any importancy in the whole process. They are just a small party which collaborates with the main neoliberal and center-left nationalistic coalition.

This, they are the left wing of capital.
Also fuck those idiots here whining about muh fascist Rajoy. They are desperate LARPers.

Share the same language and some culture but aren't Catalan territory?

I'd say porkies going "muh taxes" are a stronger force than this vague group of people wanting to give the middle finger to the king. Also

based comrades protesting in Madrid

Have you seen a single picture of the protesters?

This, there is a shit ton of /ourflags/ in the marches. Pic related

Okay, I see we've reached the part were people do mental gymnastics to justify their complaining which is a very thinly veiled attempt at showing off how smart they think they are. The meat of the matter is this: The Catalonia situation stands to further destabilise the EU in many unpredictable ways and as such it's worthwhile egging them on at every opportunity.

They have historically had different administrations, different levels of industrialization and different traditions. Valencia for example still has bullfighting while the other two don't, and it is more right wing and more nationalistic than Catalonia. They simply are different regions, you have to think that Spain is a country of countries, some are closer to each other than others.

I'm not some Catalonia apologist just because I want to see fascist spain eat shit

This one is fucking beautiful.

Given the police violence and repression, i'd say the conditions lead to popular revolt as well. I don't think the EU would last long after that.

This either ends with Rajoy resigning and another general elections being called, or with people radicalizing, especially with another global crisis being inevitable and the majority of spaniards never recovering from the 2007 crisis.

So do he have any idea on what the vote is looking like?

we*

It's almost like people who end up in the riot police are more interested in beating the shit out of people than they are with being civil.

The voting ends at 8pm but god know what it's going to look like since the police have been breaking into voting booths it's likely the Spanish Government will just smudge the figures to suit themselves

I mean the fact they're still rocking the old logo should give you a clue.

Lol nationality, what a bullshit reason to go outside…

#wokeaf

Actually the catalan riot police is confronting the spanish national police and the Guardia Facha

Sad situation

What's the leprechaun saying?

It's only going to serve to rile up pro-independence sentiment though the government has shot itself in the foot by doing this and the sympathy will now be on the side of the Catalonians.

Something about an armalite.

fight fight fight
I hope both pigs end up killing each outher.

If anything, that sounds like proof that the police are the private armies of the rich as much as any armed body of men.

This.
I don't give a shit about the Catalan independence struggle per-say, but the circumstances surrounding the referendum and the larger independence movement provides ample opportunity for the emergence of actual workers movements.

First and foremost, the fact that the Spanish national government is willing to send police to assault the populace for any sort of directly democratic movement exposes the fact that the Spanish government is itself fundamentally anti-democratic in nature. This helps to further dispel the myth that the turnover from the Franco dictatorship to the current administration was some sort of "democratic miracle" and highlights that very little about the actual structure and function of the state actually changed between then and now. The line between this shit-tier liberal democracy (the likes of which is fetishized as the ideal governmental form by much of the populace at large) and fascism (of which is despised by much of said majority) is exposed as being fundamentally part of the means of upholding a common system: capitalism. That's not to say that alone will be the grounds for some sweeping revolutionary movement, but it it's a start. On a similar note, the fact that the Spanish government is still complicit with Franco-era policies of marginalizing and erasing ethnic minorities within Spain accomplishes similar ends, though in that case being more mired in identify politics.

If Catalonia does get its independence, it's going to be massively destabilizing for everyone around. Catalonia itself is probably going to be blocked from joining the EU, meaning its likely to face at least short-term economic troubles that, while still maintaining independence, may help to underline how unsustainable neoliberal policy is and help pave the way for the left. On the Spanish side of things, the loss of Catalonia will be a massive hit to the economy at large and will likely mean that more appeals will have to be made to the EU proper for assistance. That's going to likely mean greater austerity measures and subsequent popularity of anti-austerity movements, the likes of which are usually left-wing in nature. If all goes well from that, the Spain either bails from the EU or is complicit in being a money sink, either of which will damage the stability of the EU.

Obviously the petite-bourgeois nationalism should not be supported simply for its separatist tendencies, but it may be worth allowing to pass at least for what damage it causes to the legitimacy of existing systems in the process.

Where is the red flag, I ask?

It's not my flag, I'm not Catalan.

JUST fuck my shit up, famalamadingdong

The National Police (Policía Nacional) has used Tear Gas against citizens in Aiguaviva, a town of 700 people.

96% of the people there voted yes also

Who are the dudes in yellow?

Mossos d'Esquadra, I think.

their body language kind of gives away how cucked they feel tbh.

thread so far:
< any hope it will result in a communist state?
< fuck muh 95%, then

leftypol: the "demo" in "democracy" is a joke for us too.

It's more indifference than hostility. After all if there is no possibility of a socialist uprising, why bother?

What would've been democratic elections broke down into police repression, but I guess that wasn't real socialism, right leftypol?

It doesn't count when the vanguard does it.

RESULTS ARE IN

...

If Russia had done somthing like this it would be all over the news. Hell, Crimea voted to join Russia with 97% and the west still freaked out. I hope the Catalan people go into full revolt against the Spanish government. Fascist scum.

Because this is simple way to strenghten fascism both in Spain and in Catalonia. Economy of both states will weaken, more people will be poor and frustrated, and fascists will tell them that it's because leftists betrayed them (by supporting Catalan separatism) and so they should build BIG STRONG SPAIN and MAKE CATALONIA GRAT AGAIN, by means of class collaboration and blaming some scapegoat, like immigrants, Muslims, Jews or homos.

Balkanization is fast and simple way to fascist radicalization of society, and conflict will only escalate with loss for the workers.

What the fuck was Madrid thinking with this attempted repression? Apparently only 4% of polling stations were closed down, so they've just made themselves look like bastards without actually stopping the vote.

twitter.com/YesLochLong/status/914543971489206273

Russian government is far shittier than the EU

I don't get what you've been on about m8. So we should let fascists fuck over democracy in our Motherland? Ffs without struggle, there is no revolution.

Because idiots run my country

Fuck man, let's remove these bastards all together.
Socialist Republic now!

Are you for real nigga?

Lets abolish the king aswell, that fucking crown in the emblem needs to go

Separatism is not cure for fascism or way of struggle. The biggest losers of Catalan independence are immigrant (Castilian, Andalucian, Asturian…) industrial workers in area of Barcelona. Nationalist-motivated persecution of the Spanish-speaking population has already begun several years ago - now it will only grow. All immigrants will be forced to accept worse employment conditions or emigrate to Spain. This is sending them straight into the embrace of the fascists.

I don't know how we could give better a gift to the fascist movement in Spain rather than what is happening there now. I'm pretty convinced that in nearest 10-15 years we'll have national-socialist Catalonia with anti-immigrant hysteria and neofrankist Spain preparing to war.

That in the republican flag isn't a crown m8, look closer.

Bourgies have long abandoned the flag when they sided with the fascists.
It represents bourgie betrayal.
It's our flag now. And ours alone.

It's probably just counted on political purple on nationalist tendencies inside the country. They'll pretend they tried to do something to Catalans don't leave, and that's will tickle Spanish nationalist sentiments and engage people to demonstrate their patriotism. It's pure win - consolidation of power while simultaneously marginalizing the left.
Monarchy 1 - 0 Left.

...

Don't you have some Felipe phallus to fellate?

WHEN IS PABLO GOING TO START AN INSURRECTION

you sound more unhinged with each reply. I should add for the protocol that no one is buying you being an ancom.

I think he already started, his newest campaign is literally called Rebeldia (Rebellion)

Pablo es el puto amo

Change your fucking flag shill. Like the working class recognizes borders. SELF DETERMINATION AND DIRECT DEMOCRACY ARE IN THE CORE FOUNDATION OF ANARO-COMMUNISM AND SYNDICALISM

I know, but Catalonia is struggling now for something contrary, you know?

What if Rajoy is secretly a Catalan Separatist who’s using the police to make Spain look bad.

/ourguys/ Mao was right about peasents.

youtube.com/watch?v=myo0nTAF8aM
Pablo talking about today for the spaniards

Can’t they just Learn catalan. I mean Catalonian, as a language almost went extinct under Franco.

No, this is our flag.

Liberal democratic capitalist state, archieved by collaboration with local Police forces and official authorities, is no anarchistic at any point. Nationalism is specifically not anarchistic, and Catalan or Spanish workers willhave no gain from this struggle. It's purely liberal, nationalist fight, which will lead only to worsening of their life conditions.
That's you call "direct democracy", "self-determination" or "syndycalism". Oh, I forgot that there's literally no class struggle? Do they even striked? Or, maybe, they don't want to, because their bosses and manages would loss and in this whole nationalist pseudo-revolution their money is the only reason?

It's so simple! Can't they just learn Ukrainian - you probably said when the same situation took place in Ukraine?

Can't they just be Catalans? Stupid immigrants, they don't want to assimilate, we should assimilate them by force.

This weakens NATO and the EU, thus making revolution easer in the third world. Learn geopolitics. Also if Catalonia became independint, then so would the Basques. If the Basques become independint there’s a good chance they’ll go ML.

Catalan is an indigenous language in Catalonia that almost went extinct. Russian is indigenous to South Ukraine. Just look at the Russian census of the early 1900’s pre-USSR.

Really though. Just learn the language.

...

They don’t have to assimilate, but if you move to Catalonia you should know how to speak Catalan.

Everyone speaks spanish there, so why should they?

And if you don't, it's not our problem you'll have lower wage, yes? Or be extradited?

Catalonia is the cash cow of spain. The workers are getting fucked cause they help hold up the rest of Spain. The have been many strikes in Barcelona, Dock workers, truck drivers, farmers, doing what they can to stop the fucking pigs from fucking up their comrades vote.

They'll go full neoliberal capitalist. It's impossible to build socialism in one country, but that's only detail.

As I remember, Catalonia decided to toss out Spanish language from the legal system? That means immigrants will need to learn Catalan or they'll be deprived of the possibility of winning any court case, sue an employer, and so on?

Catalonia makes up about 1/5th of the Spanish economy they are in some trouble without them

What will be next? Smaller taxes for entrepreneurs will give workers bigger salaries? I already knew you in IWW are not anarchist anymore, but I didn't expect you abandoned the belief in international class struggle.

How comes we have to answer for every shit tumblr says and does, while they can easily declare every right-winger who does not follow their super specific definition of right-wing as no true Scotsman?

Yeah I'm aware Spain has several separate peoples. I guess I just had been looking at the wrong maps with regards to Catalonya's real borders. Pic related.

And so does the Basque Country

I'm not sure if Valencians would like it that much.

twitter.com/EuropeElects/status/914594216604561408

LET THE GAMES BEGIN

I have to say, that negative-space triangle really doesn't sit well with me. Feels a lot modern corporate logo-ish.

WEW

Niceto Alcalá-Zamora BTFO

Maybe it expected Catalan cops to obey? Dunno which way they swung before this.

(you)
t. patriotic spanish dumbfuck.
I'm a spanish speaker in Catalunya (it's actual name) and what you've said it's absolute bullshit, I've gone everywhere speaking in spanish and no one will look me like I'm the devil or something as you people think.
Also I'm son of inmigrants here, and one of them isn't even from Spain.
Literally end yourself. Stop to the trainwreck that is your life and jump off a cliff.
Catalunya wants to get independence not because of national liberation but because of ideological differences. Not every person searching for a country to be independent is a fucking fascist, you dense motherfucker. Even spanish people want to go to Catalunya when they get independent to escape from the politicallly illiterate hellhole that is Spain.
I can assure that the "points" this guy, this "anarcho-communist" is arguing is what a guy unironically singing "Cara al Sol" would argue. In easier terms, he is a Holla Forumsack false flagger.

I've been told long ago that when the government, I'm guessing during the democratic transition, was giving some autonomy to the national territories, the porkies of some island region literally made up their own "history", "culture" and "tradition", distinct from Spain's, on the spot. How true is that, because it's absurd yet it's well within porky behavior.

You need to read into your history some m8.

...

Great feel.

...

I know Im dreaming, but like I wish this was like the first chapter in Homage, literally my wet dream

I want this to happen with UK and France.
Even after colonialism is gone, they are still fucking with my country. I hope once they are busy with each other they will let it in peace.

Which Country?

Because the Spanish language was enforced by the Franco regime, who’s goal was to eliminate all non-Spanish languages in Spain.

You shouldn’t get lower wages, but you should be encouraged to learn Catalan.

What was the USSR?

The flag comes from Catalan Socialists who were resisting Franco. It’s /ourflag/

Correct me if I’m wrong, but don’t most non-Europen immigrants in Catalonia speak Catalan.

France is entirely too stable for my tastes. Is the French identity that deep-rooted?

But I confess that what I really want to see is Russia get this treatment. If all "autonomous" republics and territories and shit split up, the number of countries in the world would double or something. With this modern tendency of non-left separatism and with Putin's cult of personality being the only thing holding the country together by now, we just might see this.

You talk somethig excluding with what's other people said - I have already spoken with people who experienced discrimination because of their nationality nowhere in Europe, but only in Catalunya (as you wish). Also my close friends are immigrants in Catalunya; one friend is living here for 8 years and now thinks about migrating go Spain because she's scared as fuck, despite she's not fascist but social anarchist - just because she can't speak Catalan; second friend is scientist-biotechnologist living in Barcelona and he shares my fears. probably he'll face more discrimination on nationalist wave.

And that was bad because Franco, not because forced assimilation in nationalist project is wrong? When Catalans want to eradicate all non-Catalan languages and national identies from Cattalonia it's good because they're "leftist"?

Probably Cameroun

Franc CFA needs to go, or at least, not totally be in the hands of the French government but shared with our former colonies
Colonial debts are a fucking mistake
Same as a "right of pre-emption" granted to French business in our former colonies

In return, please convince some Cameroonians to come back to your country, that'll be a fair deal

Not really socialism
Except maybe Galician since he came from here.

France is stable because regional identity is almost non-existent and regionalists are purely for cultural autonomy - muh language, muh culture - and accept the fact that France is a unitary state. Only Corsica have meme separatists, and our oversea territories.

They are autonomous for a reason, which is so that they don't split. It's common in Eastern Europe for some reason

In all honesty, if you're going to live and work in a country, you should learn the country's language. It just feels like common courtesy.

This vote wasn't about kicking people out, but voting to create a more direct democratic system for them. No one is getting kicked out of Catalonia besides the fucking cops

I wonder if there's a specific reason for this? The Spanish and British nations were unified a long time ago too but look at them now. Maybe the weekly revolutions strengthens their bond?

That's simply not true, the vote is only about independence, yes or no, it has nothing to do with a change or reform of the political system.

Several reasons
We are extremely centralised
French regional identity is much weaker than the rest due to a century-old policy of repressing local languages which have been reverted very recently - and it's only to the point of having some course in Breton or bilingual sings, still a lot to go
Our regions were, until again very recently, purely here to provide food, tourism and manpower to Paris (Paris and the French desert). We've tried to make the territory more "balanced" with varying degrees of success but we still have a lot of problems - for starters, negative growth in a lot of departments and medium-sized towns entirely falling apart with the the advent of "suburbs marts"

Why go to the expensive chop in the centre if you can buy your furniture in IKEA just a few minutes away ? That's how our centres are dying.

From an American perspective Russia looks super stable. The autonomous designations show a political compromise towards stability. America on the other hand is a dying empire along the lines of the USSR. Russia has already collapsed (as the USSR) and recovered. I'm waiting for my own country to destroy itself, but I don't know what will happen to me, my family, etc.

I’m not saying kick everyone out, but what Franco did, must be undone.

So the Catalans will not have more control over themselves now? Removing themselves from Spain is simply a cultural vote? I think not. Now if they play their cards right, and get some international support, they will not have to dick around with those who benefit from having Catalonia under Spanish control, and not giving them back what they deserve. This is as much of an Economic decision as anything, its just a little easier to say that when the countries speak different languages and have historically always been at odds with each other.

What was it with Alsace and Lorraine, once again?

Thug life guardia
twitter.com/Ian56789/status/914607386203181062

No. Lrn2 how liberal democracy under capitalism works.

Serious or a meme ?

Seriously it's that once we get something we're never letting it go, and that it was literally taken from us, with Germans having a policy of rapid assimilation and Germanisation between 1870 and 1918, and outright conscripting people between 1940 and 1945.

The Republic never considered Alsace and Lorraine a special territory, but France proper from the moment it was established.
Republicanism is something very strong here - mostly due to two centuries of propaganda. Alsatians have still their meme language surviving but they definitively feel French because of said Republicanism.

Maybe its stable but the rampant corruption Russia has is even insane by american standards
Pic related one of Dmitri Medvedev's several Mansions

ok, thanks for the advice! Ill make sure and go study now!!

a meme
youtube.com/watch?v=hoTI4vh7IVA

At least it's not a shitty McMansion like Americans

(you)
Pic related.
Catalan is mostly talked in villages and small towns where there isn't much spanish inmigration (As inmigration from Spain to Catalunya existed since the XIX century), and that doesn't mean that in that towns if you speak spanish there will be five catalonian thugs that will beat you up for spanish talker, if you talk in spanish, they will answer you in spanish.
They don't fucking care what you speak (unless is something related to the goverment, then you're fucked, but that would be like making some bureocratic paper in the USA in spanish).
As I said, Catalunya's folks want independence because of ideological differences with the rest of Spain.

Im gonna tell you that, for example, in the universities you can talk whatever language (being spanish or catalan) you want. The teacher can talk in whatever language they want to, and it's courtesy to talk in the language they're talking to. Still, you're talking like a spanish patriot because you're probably one (or maybe you're not even one, you just read something on Holla Forums and then came here). You're are a falseflagger.

...

Wtf I love catalan neolibs now.

You realize a billionaire runs America's executive branch, that the entire government is run by corporate lapdogs, and that the secret government (CIA, NSA, Pentagon, FBI) is run by the wealthy elite. Don't Russians benefit from many socialist programs that Americans don't have? I could be off the mark, but it seems like the Russian standard of living has gone up with the economic recovery, whereas America economic growth (when it existed) was poorly distributed for decades.

Russki Gini index is one of the worst in Europe and out of control

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_income_equality

90% of voters said ‘Yes’ to independence from Spain – Catalan government
rt.com/news/405303-catalonia-independence-referendum-results/

That's almost a little too high

That is because i think, in this referendum and in the last one, the rightist voters, the ones against the independence, didn't vote to try and boycott it because "they weren't represented", or something like that, I don't remember very well.

There are 5.3 million eligeble voters. Roughly 2 million voted yes and 200 thousand voted no. That's still only 40% voting yes. I would presume you would need above 50% of eligeble voters in an "illegitimate" referendum to declare indeoendence

What I dont get is how the UN principles of self determination somehow are only abstract. Pretty weird

Interesting stuff

It's not high enough.

And now things will really come off the hinges.

"Catalonian citizens won the right to statehood"– regional president
archive.fo/IhH4H

Lmao at the anarkiddies it thinking Catalonia would be able to survive as a syndicalist state in continental Europe with no fucking nukes.

Catalina's arguably more bourgie than the rest of Spain if only because of their economy.

I still think Catalonian Independence would be a good thing if it helps to discredit the EU and hastens the death of liberal democracy and the utopian idea of national liberation

redpepper.org.uk/committees-in-defence-of-the-referendum-update-from-catalonia/

True, they are about half a million votes away from being able to outright declare independence (which is a lot in a place with 5.3 million voters) with a high degree of legitimacy. However, seizing ballot boxes allows the Catalans to claim that they actually would have gotten much more if not for the interferrence from Madrid.

The disgusting behaviour from Madrid will allow the the Catalans to go on a charm offensive to Brussels and the UN. The EU has already had a lot of problems with legitimacy, if they stonewall the Catalans it will look very bad and decrease trust in the whole European project. Especially if things start to get violent. The EU's claim to fame is that it keeps the peace. Civil war is ofc still very unlikely. However, Madrid wont ofc accept secession easily. It is a political impasse, and how do Spaniards solve political dead locks? They start to set of bombs of course. ETA bomb makers are still alive and kicking. They would assist a new left wing Catalonian liberation army with the logistics in a heart beat. They will probably replicate the IRA model and blow up some stuff in a big square in Madrid after alerting all authorities so the casualties are at a minimum

Is it dare, I say it, habbening?

This is so much fun :)

We might be able to witness the first proper European war of our lifetime

No one thinks Catalonia will go far left. This is more of a joy out of spite thing seeing the closet falangists in Madrid and the PP losing control over their precious monarchy

And you are right that this has a very high chance at discrediting the whole European project which will of course allow space for new leftist ideas, but it might also result in a reactionary turn in Europe, n'est pas?

Again, if you count the ballots which were stolen, the turnout is probably over 50% And with Rajoy reviling his autism the people in Catalonia against independence will won’t do anything to stop Catalonia from leaving.

u wot m8?

Hopefully this will cause people in Spain to abandon the Monarchy and get rid of the PP. If they do that, but Catalonia stays in Spain, I’ll be more then satisfied. Also riots between the “Rajoy Virgens” and the “Soc Dem Chads” there’ll be plenty of memes.

Having seen the aftermath of more than a few civil wars, I don't expect this being "fun". They just end in scores of dead workers and traumatized people. I'd really wish all this nationalism nonsense would just end already.

Seriously, talk to actual refugees. This stuff won't be fun if it ends in violence.
And since when weren't the Yugoslav wars or the Donbas War proper European wars? Are you that young?

If it did become something close to a syndicalist state it could probably survive off tourists.
I would go just to see what it looks like.
And maybe it would give other places in the EU to secede as well.

Not to mention the potential influence —the deterring factor— that the violence, declarations that the "illegal" referendum won't be held at all and that polling stations "would be closed" had on the voters.
90% is still a damn large majority and I doubt the results would've been much different with a larger participation. Assuming everything went as by-the-book as possible. Considering the circumstances, that is.

lmao of course all war is awful, that sort of goes without saying

I'm just a nihilistic young loser spectacle boy, I'm just acknowledging that war is extremely fun to follow as an outsider, it's probably a lot of fun for some soliders too

I'm not trying to be edgy, just reacting genuinely, war is exciting, there is no use in being prude and denying that fact

I was ofc alive during the Yugo wars but not at an age were I closely followed foreign affairs

Donbass war is very real, but also very far to the east, Catalonia is in some ways the heart of Europe

It’s fun to shoot Spanish State PP supporters and Falangests.

hell yeah, I bet it was fun to murder the local bourgoise landowners with Makhno and his crew circa 1919

Catalonia HAS WON!!!!!!!

...

Will Rajoy send in the tanks?
How will he deal with this?
Will he go full retard again?

I was going to say it seemed like a possible shill but it's pointless pointing it out. I approve of pointing these out much more than when Holla Forumsyps are blatantly just acting like retards for jokes.
Nice one Stasibro.

Fuck him, it is known across the world what has happened and the people have spoken. Especially after what has happened during the vote, I highly doubt he has the balls to go further.

To go further would be suicide. However, that might not matter if he as nothing to lose. So the question is, does he?

do me next, big brother.

Might start facing international sanctions.

can someone translate who "no" means into english?

Rajoy is to retarted to succeed in anything.

is this OC? it's very good

it is indeed.

No is just a gentle Yes today.

Allegedly 80% of voting places were kept open. If we make a sweeping assumption that the last 20% of voting places would have or did vote with the same pattern and that the last 5% follow the same pattern, we get 2.440.000 votes for Yes. That would be 46% of the eligble voters in Catalonia voting yes.That is practically enough to have legitimacy in declaring independence

Dude was like obviously a shill. Literally didnt know what the fuck he was talking about.

Assange says that 700,000 votes were discarded also

where did all this seccessionism come from, it seems quite sudden. i'm thinking it's linked to scotland somehow.

How can he even get the slightest idea tho? Hes stuck in an Attic in London.

I mean it is kinda shocking they got such a high turn out for the no vote considering that the Spanish gov deemed it illegal and cops were shooting people with rubber bullets.

News from some source I saw it on his tweeter ill go copy the tweet

There's probably also people that stayed home out of fear for police brutality.

I think that just makes people more inclined to do it. You know voting matters when it's banned.

jej

>pscp.tv/joannaccherry/1nAKEealwXaKL?t=0

He tweeted it out saying that "some 700,000 votes were discarded by Spanish forces" he doesn't say where he got the info though. Probably from some Spanish news source though. Makes sense to me because polling places were shut down.

No voters were less likely to tun out and vote because why would you risk getting shot by voting for the people shooting. Most no voters stayed home.

I could imagine going out to vote "no", then getting shot in the shins by a rubber bullet and seeing the police beat up some old lady and then decide I should vote "yes"

That tends to happen when the people you support start beating people for no reason I guess.

Also I just thought of an interesting project, might take me some time but Im sure it can be done. With my past OSINT gathering experience, Im sure we can find out who was actually in charge of the police in Barcelona. Wikipedia has like all their uniforms and shit on their page. Im getting to work now.

interesting…

Madrid citizens are waving the republican flag and the socialist flag in solidarity with Catalonia

Well that "autonomous" designation has existed since Lenin's time, and it has never meant much.

The cynic in me thinks that there's always more distance you can fall, Zeno's paradox-style.

Better get ready for some good old fashioned RWDS.

Wait, someone here thinks Catalonya will be anything other than another porky """democracy"""?

Dank as fuck, comr8.

First of all, what the fuck
Second of all, neat
Third of all, source?

following the Council of Ministers the "new but absolutely necessary mechanism to control payments",
which the government has opted to implement, "given the absolutely illegal situation in which the Regional
Government of Catalonia finds itself". Cristóbal Montoro presented the Council of Ministers with a report
on the new measures, which were then subsequently approved by the Delegate Government Committee for Economic Affairs.

Well heres the faggot that secured the funding for the police, he should be the first to the gulag

Saw this on spanish RT

“I have no particular love for the idealized “Catalan” as he appears in the bourgeois Communist’s mind, but when I see an actual flesh-and-blood Catalan in conflict with his natural enemy, the Spanish central government, I do not have to ask myself which side I am on.”
t. Georgie Orwell

Assassinate him. Make an IED. Find him. And chuck it at him.

not great propaganda

That's nice bitch but a mod already called you a rat

We dont have to do that, we just have to expose some corrupt shit on all of them like we did hillary

...

We dont have to do that, we just have to expose some corrupt shit on all of them like we did Hillary.

Cry more Francom

what's the source for this?

lmao I'm a different an-com poster, now I get what happened in Russia during the 30s

I mostly shiposted about Bernie in 2016 and beg for free podcasts in the Chapo thread

I think our local Stasi official can confirm this?

different an-com poster

I am sure that our friendly neighborhood Stasi official can confirm this?

Wonderful, just what we need, another capitalist state

Is the entire front of that building on the right just painted on?

Thats a construction tarp i think

Libs are pretty shit but they're more likely to be converted than conservatives

Well now capitalists states are more divide and have less of an ability to centralize power.

Stop zeroing in on the small scale issue you autist, this will destabilise the EU.

Thats a construction tarp I think. I have seen shit like that painted on buildings before here in the US, looks ok from a distance but fake as fuck up close.

At least Europe is balkanizing again dumbass, Also you're probably a shill. Catalonia has always been fucked by Spain. Spain deserves to have this chunk of land ripped from its guts like an eagle rips from Prometheus. And Spain needs to be reminded this every day similarly.

I'm entirely happy about the way things turned out. Fuck Spain and the past 100+ years of its bullshit. It deserves the L.

All I see in this is good. Destroy the wealth of old nations.

piper perri did a gangbang scene with 5 black guys?

twitter.com/prepuciosalamar/status/914573941720498176

pig gets the chair

Anyone else want to rewatch Pan's Labyrinth again? Love seeing Franco inheriting bastards take the L

Fucking Kek, I need the FFmpeg webm cmd to make this shit half chan compatible.

lol, that fucking grass

lol

This kills the pig.

Can somebody turn that into a banner?

"take a seat lad"

Angry about Spain?

Yep he's mad.

oh fuck no, not this again

A fucking Nihilist.

Rajoy being angry about his inability to suppress the referendum taking his anger out on kids. Colorized.

...

lel what did I miss?

Police spergout in Barcelona, kicking dogs and old people, giving one a seizure.

Dope pic from the following article:
mobile.nytimes.com/2017/10/01/world/europe/catalonia-independence-referendum.html?referer=https://news.google.com/

Notice the hammer and sickle tattoo on one guys arm, and the antifa shirt on the other. Based

That thread derailing sonic porn comic

spanish nationalist spaming sonic porn lol

...

You mean to tell me it's happening?

So dope!

I see nothing good coming out of this. Screencap this post

Im not sure whats happening… #CatalanReferendum was trending on twitter all day long, even burying Murican Football protests n shit. 700k people mentioned what a prick Rajoy is, and how butthurt they ended up being.

Im not sure what will come out of this, but I know that within the next few years, there is a good chance that Catalonia will be independent from imperial Spanish rule, they simply cant hold them down anymore.

The right wont like this

The EU lost a chunk of Spain and all of Britain. This is good.

Good. I love seeing super butt-hurt fascists

True, as it stands right now a catalonian secession would mainly fuck over both catalonian and spanish workers.
On the other side this should make Rajoy resign and force to call another elections, who PP has no chance in hell to win.

Bullshit, it won't be worse than it is now.

Okay so a Spanish Republic is next right?

Never say never pal. Also this thing they pulled in catalonia will be a nice excuse to birng down workers movments even more.
This is what I don't get about accellerationist. Even if you destabilize EU and bring down standards of living in every country in europe, how would you know that porky is not gonna pull another mussolini? Do you think that people are ready to fight a civil war? Could you please be realistic?

The last time they did this, it made Catalonia independent.

A Catalan Republic. They are literally trying to knock this shit out like Donetsk I think, or at least that's how I think our comrades want it to go. They will take the official count to the special parliament hearing this week and by the 10th there should be a Catalan state, but I doubt that will go through without some bullshit.

Seeing the organization and fight against the police, the strikes that were thrown, the farmers rolling in the artillery to block the streets, I think that you guys are selling the organization of our comrades a little short. I mean fuck, last time this kinda thing happened, Catalonia had no standing military, no weapon productions, and no money. This time they have a quarter of the GDP of Spain behind them, and a well developed Industrial and Electronics zone I would argue in Western Europe.

I support their independence but some of them are not really /ourguys/

Catalonia has a residual hatred of Franco and his apologists that outnumbers people who want to travel back to that past.

There's actual leftists on the ruling party

Well one critique orwell had of the Republican Spain was exactly that. They started fighting between parties too soon. I really recomend reading the version of Homage that has the Appendix where he tries to explain the politics of the situation and what eventually led to its downfall. One thing he made clear tho, was that workers should strike outside catalonia to get attention on the issue. Like the Scotts and Welsh that were standing in solidarity with the Republicans in the war. Also from what I understand is that the right-wing secessionist party isn't all that far right, leaning more centrist, which can almost be just as bad, but defiantly not fascists.

Oh how I dream of the red flags from every window, and posters on every wall.

The separatists are as porky as the spanish goverment, if not more.
This shit mainly started because of that "espanya ens roba" bullshit, you can't get more porky than that.
Don't ever think this would end into another CNT/FAI.

I'm not saying it will, but I think this is a good thing for the working class of Catalonia. I'm just glad to see a remnant of the long lost motherland kicking again is all. Literally puts a smile on my face knowing that my comrades aren't actually just getting pushed around.

Do you have a link to that video in YouTube?

>youtube.com/watch?v=ehzC937Q9Dc

another good one here
>youtube.com/watch?v=JPgIqDWBLDQ

Both catalonia and spain will get off worse economically after this, and spanish/catalonian animosity could be played by right-wing populism easily.

If anything happens because of this then it will be lasting resentment and open hostility to the police force and PP. Unlike the Yanks who have some weird loyalty to their police officers I won't be surprised to see more militant action taken against the national police in Spain as a whole.

I highly doubt it man. The Pigs showing up was the worse thing that Spain could have won. They scared their supporters to stay home. Who would go and make an effort to vote in unity if the State is smashing windows and stealing ballot boxes, it would make me think twice.

At first I didn't think so like you. But now that the goverment sent cops to shut it down yes this will end up in CNT/FAI part 2.

Do you think Europe's Antifa would have noticed if the goverment didn't sent pigs to shut it down? They didn't. Now Spain will get Antifascist. And know very well from whom Antifa takes inspiration.

...

...

I really do hope that at the very least, the cops spooped the right wingers there, and whoever you see on the street fighting a cop, is an act of anti fascism. I dont think that the glorious CNT-FAI will be a major party again, but I can totally see decentralized organization against the Spanish, which is something that the National Police didnt see comming. Like ffs, farmers blocking the roads and people occupying polling places to ensure a vote most likely wasnt a Catalan Gvt planned thing. I dont see why there is soo much fear here of the right in Catalonia compared to our comrades. THIS IS FUCKING CATALONIA M8s. THEY LITERALLY PIONEERED THE ANTI FASCIST ACTION

I was mainly talking about what would happen if catalonia actually seceded in the short term, but you guys have a point.
This will only increase people's distrust on the government and police.
I still think Rajoy will be forced to resign and call new general elections soon, elections that the PP has no chance in hell to win.

how did you even type your post with that level of inaction

Im pretty sure that was the shillcom posting, talking all kinda ignorant bullshit earlier

Sending cops to brutalize the shit out of Catalans was the worst most retarded shit the state could have done.

They instantly made the Catalans the good guys. It's a good Rebels vs the evil Fascists now. I thank them for being so fucking stupid hahahah!

wew what the fuck are you on, user?

Like I said man, that faggot is a shill, if they didnt go vote its their own damn fault.

...

Yeah, my bad. This thread is long as fuck and didn't get to that part til much later

polite sage

Saved

homage to catalonia part 2 when

Soon user, the torch has been lit, we will have to see who carries it now and which way it goes. BUT When she calls and Im needed, I will go and participate in whatever way Im needed in the motherland.

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Some Spanish Nationalist Spammed Furry Pedo porn.

NO PP will resign in Spain and people who are actually smart will come to power in Spain, and thus improve the working class’s conditions in Spain.

Why should I listen to Bordiga on Fascism, when he failed to prevent it in Italy despite the CPI being huge.

PP has too much power for this to happen

So…. is the general strike gonna happen tomorrow or what? Really hard to find reliable sources on it.

Spaniard here, can confirm its tomorrow

Is it national or local?

Just the CNT or any other unions involved?

Yesterday I was the entire day defending the polls. Tomorrow there's a general strike.

I answer questions.

It was started by the CNT and CGT (anarco-syndicalists) and the Coordinadora Obrera Sindical (marxist), but this morning Comisiones Obreras and Unión General de Trabajadores (the main, socdem unions) announced that they would join the strike.

SPICY. Is it meant to be national or just in Catalunya?

Also what has Iglesias said about events?

Read

Do you think the strike has popular support? I read somewhere that some catalans are calling it anti-patriotic

how do you feel about john cusack?

As of now, it has only been announced on Catalonia. Podemos has denounced the police brutality and defended the catalan government, but since the Socialist Party is suporting Rajoy they are pretty much powerless.

The other day Iglesias and other socdem politicians were trapped half a day in a building because nazis blocked the door of the building and the government said that all the riot police was in Barcelona.

The anti-patriotic thing is nonsense. I think that it will have massive support, because holding the referendum against the police was much more difficult than a simple strike. And besides, public transportation will be pretty much non-existent, even those who don't really care for independence will find it hard to go to work.

The only question is how much support it will have in the "red ring", the region surrounding Barcelona of mainly ex-PSOE voters where catalan nationalism has relatively less support and much of the heavy industry is localized. But even there I think that it will be a success, because people are pretty mad at the police since yesterday.

I don't know who he is.

imdb.com/name/nm0000131/

this is john cusack

I don't know him, his face on IMBD reminds me of Wedge Antilles.

on first impression of john cusack do you have any violent impulsions?

No. I don't see what's the point about the question, to be frank.

*to be franco

hmmmmm…….

Are they going to declare independence?

Yes, before the end of the week. President Puigdemont said so this morning.
He also demanded the National Police and Civil Guard to get out of Catalonia.

It's people going off-topic to screw with serious topics. Possible Holla Forumsyps.

How bout the Mossos? As I understand they are Catalunya police only?

no, just drunk.
please don't insult me in such ways.
also i am really interested in what people think of john cusack. there's something about him i can not put my finger on.

They are the regional police. It seems that the catalan government has managed to keep them under control and the central government is accusing them of blatantly disobeying orders. They haven't participated yesterday's beatings. They even protected the polls from the spanish police in some cities.

youtu.be/j4OQxelsu14

I think it's you.

i'm john cusack?

...

What do you think Podemos is, then?

I'm not him, but they are not even sucdem, they are just a scam, a new PSOE.

Well, I would say that socialdemocracy has been a scam since at least World War I, but who knows.

Are these guys a soc-dem scam?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Popular_Unity_Candidacy

Can someone translate this into catalan.

They are not really a party, they are a electoral plataform for several left-wing and independentist groups. Most of them are radical socdems, but there are also anarcho-syndicalists, trots and marxists-leninists. They also refuse to run for the general and european elections, which I think is pretty based.

I actually voted for them in the last elections.

OK What are the best resources for learning Catalan?

llengua.gencat.cat/en/serveis/aprendre_catala/index.html

heres the plan

someone in barcelona get like 500 CNT flags made and hand them out

I like stuff like this. Prevents parties from going to reformist.

Thank you!

getting ready for the international brigades I see

With spanish you're already fine m8, everyone in Catalunya is bilingual and it's more useful because is one of the most talked languages of all around the world.
Still, if you want to learn how to speak Catalan, do what you want.

I might go to a rally in support of Catalunya

A on aniràs?

bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-02/spain-vows-to-enforce-law-in-rebel-catalonia-as-standoff-worsens

Madrid is doubling down WEW LAD

It's in Portugal. It probably doesn't make a difference but whatever

It's really going to happen again is it?
Why is Rajoy such an autistic imbecile?

We're going to have at least a new 1934.

While well armed, the spanish bourgeoisie is retarded.

/Spanish modern history summarized/

Wow that's really something. How politicized is the average normie after the referendum?

Okay so when this do get serious: how long before the leadership of JxSí try to reign it in? I mean half of them are christdems afterall.

The average Joe is extremly movilized right now, there are spontaneous demonstrations on the streets every day, and hatred of the spanish police is widespread.

Even so, there is a prevalecent idea between most of the working class and the left (specially the spanish-speaking one) that once independence is established, the next enemy to defeat will be Convergència Democràtica de Catalunya, the main center-right party in Catalonia.

They have been trying for the last two weeks. They even tried to turn the referendum into a meaningless demonstration at the last day, but the people who actually organise the thing in each city refused and occupied the schools the day before.

They have seen the monster that they have summoned and now they're retreating lmao.

are left-wing groups trying to steer the protests towards class consciousness, or are they opportunistically riding the wave of anti-police sentiment

No hablas espanol; can you translate that please?

...

From what I've heard, the CNT will make a demonstration at literally the doors of the PP centre at Barcelona And I'm going there.