Nat Soc VS True Soc

To be far we both want to liquidate large sections of society for supposed political differences. And don't forget we're both Socialists.

Please see this.

We want to abolish "businesses". Socialism is an entirely different mode of production that isn't simply "the government doing things" or nationalization.

We don't want to control business dude, we want to abolish production for exchange. It's radically different. And the only thing socialist about the nazis was their name, they fucking killed communists even before they gassed jews.
explained it, but you don't seem to have understood.

The continued existence of the bourgeoisie is incompatible with socialism, yes, but can you explain to me why exactly socialism must be advocated for from a "porkies are oppressing us" standpoint and not a "capitalism is gradually annihilating civility, the environment, and everything that makes life not miserable and also hinders production by allowing people and capital to go unused and resources to be allocated to the construction of useless luxury goods" one?

Both are valid. I'm not sure what that has to do with being against class collaboration tho.

Because the latter standpoint advances socialism to advance the common wealth of most everyone, whereas the former solely focuses on proletarian struggle against the bourgeoisie; the latter is in that sense against class struggle and for class collaboration.

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I don't think you understand what class collaboration means. It's a political principle that states that class hierarchy is an essential component of a healthy civilization. It's completely antithetical to a classless society.

Oh, I guess I didn't, then. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

NatSoc is class collaborationist. It recognizes class struggle, and believes that the solution is for the working class to know its place and be happy with it.

It also obfuscates the antagonisms of conflicting class interests by projecting the conflict onto an internal and/or external enemy who is said to be subverting the true nature of the nation.

youtube.com/watch?v=H-2q-QMUIgY

youtube.com/watch?v=Q78COTwT7nE

It means that Not Socialists are Capitalists. They just use the "Socialist" disguise to unite the workers under 1 army to then just be used as tools for the bourgeois. German Workers never owned the means of production in the Third Reich but rich German Businessmen.

Read Ernest Jünger.

Fascism in general, though especially NutSac keeps all the trappings of capitalism whilst calling it "not capitalism" because it occasionally (emphasis on occasionally) goes against profiteering if it doesn't benefit the state's goals. Fascist states, especially Nazi Germany, went as far to abandon traditional Fascist beliefs of class collaboration and corporatism to protect capitalists, to the point where Goebbels and others believed Hitler was far too conservative economically.

there were real lefties among their coalition in the early days but they all got purged in 1933-34
Nazis used socialists and socialist rhetoric to come to power, but Hitler ultimately chose to align with the Prussian Military aristocracy and wealthy industrialists

Nat Socs wish to keep money, classes, markets, and privet ownership of the workplace.

there were real lefties all along the way that survived but didn't speak up on Hitler's goverment for obvious reasons. One of them was Ernest Jünger.

the national "socialists" murdered their own left wing

Junger wasn't so much a "proper" leftist as you guys would imagine but a Nazbol. Imagine if Rambo were a Conservative Revolutionary Poet. Niekisch was further left but not as left as Ulbricht or Thallmann and lacked Jünger's connections do he got V& instead of drafted.

Listen dumbass, the only way to "abolish production for exchange" is to control them.

Thanks, at least someone understands.

see post

Yes, but can we can take a look at the methods they both used to keep their systems in power.

Much like the USSR.
And before you claim the didn't, remember the antifa motto, "liberals get the bullet too."

There are so many things wrong with this post dude

Who could ever forget the wise words of Auntie Fey, 4th General Commissar of the United States of Socialist Russia?

(You) sound like a dumbass, did you really come here for political advice so you could win an argument on an imageboard? God, you're pathetic, no wonder the other user is kicking your ass.
OF COURSE…

We're not liberals, retard. Congratulations, you're Holla Forumstard #9854634537 who failed to read the sticky before posting. Also, that "motto" was spraypainted on a wall one time by some guy.

I know you're not liberals dumbass. And if you take a look at that post I was replying to, it said Nat Soc murdered the left wing, and I was reminding him that they would also murder the left too if given the chance.

Liberals aren't leftist.

lol what?

Next thing you're gonna tell me is conservatives aren't right wing.

I can be a real wildcard and tell you you're retarded if it makes you comfortable.

Liberalism is centrist, very slight right leaning
Conservativism is centrist, a little further right leaning

This is assuming you're talking about american politics, which I'm going to guess you are.

Calling liberals leftists is like calling your average republican a fascist.

It's kind of retarded outside of the tiny tiny tiny scope of american party politics.

I understand it must be hard being this retarded, you do go to Holla Forums afterall so it's unsurprising. You probably believe other bullshit like Soros is a communist (even though he funds Trump and helped dismantle the soviet union), lizard, mind control drugs in the drinking water, etc.

But for now, I made you this helpful little graph to clear up your confusion.

"Liberals get the bullet too" is, in of itself, an implicit declaration that liberals aren't leftist. What exactly do you think they're supposed to be getting the bullet FOR?

Were I come from USA, liberal means you're left wing.

That's because american politics is retarded and nobody here knows how to properly identify their enemies.

Dems aren't commies and RONALD RUMP isn't a nazi.

American definitions are wrong on everything. They make absolutely no sense and cannot be defined.

George Soros has willfully and on an ongoing basis attempted to destabilize and otherwise commit acts of sedition against the United States and its citizens, has created and funded dozens of discrete organizations whose sole purpose is to apply Alinsky model terrorist tactics to facilitate the collapse of the systems(Antifa).

And a person born in scottsland isn't scottish.

Agreed on all accounts except liberals are left wing.

Maybe try learning what that fallacy entails before trying to use it as an argument.

Stop being a fucking retard for a minute and actually try to define leftism along your terms.

Well no shit you are american.

You are wrong. About everything. Everything you think you know about politics is a lie. Your education system is a joke. Your public is inbred morons.

Jesus christ listen to yourself. You're fucking Alex Jones incarnate.
Are you shitting me? Alinsky was a lukewarm social democrat, not some fucking communist revolutionary. His "rules for radicals" was common sense basic reform tactics, not a bomb-making guide.

Not really. In the grand scheme of things they're more centrist, with nowadays a few starting to skew towards being ancom.

I really hate when people don't properly identify their political enemies.

Wew

People in the united states don't understand what either liberal or left wing means

George works is anticommunist. He's a fucking liberal. Antifa is more like an affinity group (look up what that means). Nevertheless those in antifa are at best anarchocommunist. And none of them are on payrolls.
Antifa isn't some #Resist McProtest shit man. Say what you will for legitimate criticism of them but don't spout retarded Holla Forums tier bullshit

Ok whatever you guys say. Next question, how is ok for Terrorists(antifa) to punch people non-violently protesting the system?

It's debatable, even here. Not everyone (including communists) supports antifa. Some see it as counterproductive to beat up proletarians. Others argue these specific people who espouse obviously apprehensible beliefs are so severely misguided it's warranted. So it's not a settled issue for us

They sure do act like how us pol guys act.

The idea that violence is inherently fascist is an entirely liberal one. They propose dialogue and debate for one reason: They control the levers of power and violence could disrupt that control, whereas unending chatter will not. Liberals get violent very quickly when they see that they are not in control.

Im not sure I understand.

Fascists marches carry an implicit threat of violence. Frequently they are followed up by several groups of the participants going to a bar after, getting very pleased by their reception, and beating up on a

They act like extremists do. You both may want to look up the political horse shoe, the more extreme group are politically, the closer they are(method wise) to what they consider their political antithesis.

wew. He actually posted this guys.

This horseshoe isn't even labeled right, communism/fascism and authoritarian/democracy? Come on lad get it together. You can pretty much make a horseshoe for whatever group is in power and whatever groups oppose it using different criterion each time.

Those marches never once initiation violence. If we're going by advocating violence is enough to deserve to be punched. That means Antifa is also deserves to be punched because of their motto, "liberals get the bullet too."
BTW any political group can protest non-violantly as long as the government permits protests.

Kek I just saw it

Can you explain to me(a pol nazi idiot) why exactly this graph is wrong.

Thanks I'll fix it.

Sure, I'll fuck around in paint for a few minutes to give you the full experience.

Someone unironically posts the horseshoe theory. Wow.

Loving every laugh

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Can you explain to me why this graph is wrong?

Nat Soc is like Demo Soc, they both put a tight collar on capitalism.

A tight collar on capitalism is still capitalism m8.

No I can't. It's just what far right and centrists look like to far left people.

You dumbass see capitalism and socailism as two things that can't exist at the same time. The thing is it's more like a dimmer switch, please watch this. youtube.com/watch?v=fRt9x2NDemocratic Cops of AmericaU

youtube.com/watch?v=fRt9x2NDemocratic Cops of AmericaU

youtube(.)com/watch?v=fRt9x2NDemocratic Cops of AmericaU

youtube. com/watch?v=fRt9x2NDemocratic Cops of AmericaU

https: //www .youtube .com/watch?v= fRt9x2N Democratic Cops of AmericaU

lol it's the dumb new wordfilter.

but seriously socialism is incompatible with private property, you're thinking of social democracy

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Thats right, they are different modes of production.

Behold, my life's work. I call it the fourth political theory of horseshoeism.

Ingore the democratic cops thing and add D S A U without the spaces

Enough fam you're just embarrassing yourself at this point

It's a dimmer switch

If it has private property isn't not socialism and is either capitalism or feudalism

What methods does Fascism share with liberalism? And what methods does communism share with liberalism?

youre seriously linking sargon meme videos? he doesnt even know what socialism is

no it isnt. economic modes of production dont work the same way that a light switch does im afraid.

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I'm telling you it's a dimmer switch. Watch this, it explains how it's a dimmer switch. https: //www .youtube .com/watch?v= fRt9x2 N D S A U

My man they are labeled right there on the picture. Fascism and liberalism are capitalist, and communism and liberalism are anti-nationalist (internationalist and globalist, respectively).

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Next thing you'll tell me is Venezuela isn't socailist, dumbass.

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Correct, Venezuela has private property, markets, wage labor, money, class relations. It is capitalist, Don't try to argue what socialism is or what it isn't if you don't even know the basics.

Has your brain been replaced with memes or are you really just this stupid.

Communism isn't anti-nationalism, and fascism isn't as for free markets as liberalism. Are you retarded or something?

This has to be an elaborate ruse.

Watch the video retard.

fuck you for linking a Sargon video.

The majority of the VZ economy is private property, that ain't socialism. Socialism isn't 'seize individual factories every now and then'.

It's dumb as shit and Sargon is 100% wrong as usual

Nigger I even laid it out in images to prevent you getting confused.
No.
Where is this even presented in the pictures? How is it possible to be this confused by an illustrated example?

Give it up Cuckold of Blackedkod, we arnt watching your shit.

"Venezuela is socialist in process [as opposed to actual facts]"

Oh shit Carl of Swindon BTFO me

If you were smarter you would know that capitalist states seize individual businesses all the time too. What do you think eminent domain is?

All communist countries were very nationalistic you moron, they always said stuff like, "Think first for the people and not for your self"
BTW that picture does falsely show fascism
supporting capitalism as much as liberalism does.

I disagree.

Ok, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree then.

You're right fam, fascism supported capitalism more than liberalism did. It didn't even bother giving it a happy face.

One exists and one is in your head, although I'll agree the USSR had a bit of a nationalist streak, which is understandable since it came after their successes rather than using it as a basis for their ideology.

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I disagree and you both are retards. We'll have to agree to disagree.

Your entire argument is told through memes. You need to take a long look at who is the retard here. You dont even know what Socialism/Communism is and how its different from Liberalism, let alone what your own ideology, Fascism, means.

I do know how liberalism and socialism is different dumbass, Sargon is Liberal are you are a Commie.

There are hundreds of mainstream parties in the world with 'socialist' in the title, most of them are social democratic like VZ's. If they were actually big S Socialist they would have seized 100% of the economy but they're not. I'm sorry that this is hard for you to grasp but you need to get some actual education not based on cancerous YT personalities

So much for the rational right, guess it comes down to nothing but opinion eh?

We aren't agreeing to disagree. You're wrong and staying wrong willfully.

So you agree with me then?

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Im using a Marx flag. Are you blind AND dumb. Sargon is a Classical Liberal which is right wing in every other nation other than retarded ass burgerstan.

Sasuga the_donald…

fyi: comebacks that work well on your playground don't necessarily work on Holla Forums

He's left wing and liberal, this test says he's liberal, you ignoramus. https ://www .youtube. com/watch?v=gf O ob-36 O Eo

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false, private individuals (high ranking communist party officials) owned the means of production

That doesn't really matter? The thought of Antifa is that they WOULD initiate violence if left to their own devices, and much like there's nothing wrong with punching a man talking about how he's going to shoot you as soon as he finds his gun there's nothing wrong with preemptive violence. Now, maybe they're wrong, maybe there wouldn't be violence, but I already covered that with "maybe they've misidentified non-fascists as fascists."

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I've tried having this argument with the fash. Their response is this: Yes he's a liberal, yes he's anti communism, but he's one of 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧them🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 so benefits from anti-fascists opposing the anti-Semitic right.

Please explain and prove how the USSR was a classless, stateless, and moneyless nation.

Because it's funny to watch the RWDS Hitler-kiddies cry about fairness and free speech after getting punched in the face. Even God would approve of that karma.

yes, I agree it wasn't communism so you can't use it as an example.
real top left would be nazbols

You will only find salt here. You can quite comfortably argue they were socialist and make a decent case that they fucked it up at [insert moment you believe the USSR was doomed] but it wasn't communist.

how are trots so dumb

lmfao

probably falseflagging

They were communist.

Some countries which either have or had more people employed in the public sector than Venezuela in the last few years:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_sector

see

Top kek, thanks I've been looking for something like this. All the propaganda on VZ is displacing the wikipedia articles.

Dat waznt TRUE Communism/Socialism.

see

see

I guess we can't agree to what socialism means.

You have yet to even attempt to define socialism in this thread.

No, you seem to just lack any sort of understanding of basic political concepts. It's not a case of people not agreeing with you, it's a problem that you don't actually have the first clue as to what it is you're talking about and refuse to listen to anyone trying to tell you.

Of course he did, he said socialism is a dimmer switch, remember?

I did.

And you know what that does not say? It doesn't say socialism is the government doing stuff.

Come on mate, lets hear it in your own words. No screen shots, no dictionary.

Regulated by the community

Community isnt the government boyo.

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your post modern take is refreshing

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A fucking four

Wtf that doesn’t make sense. Nazbol would just be the USSR but with borders based on ethnicity and nationalism.

year, month, day

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Socialism is the end result of contradiction in capitalism leading to worker control of the means of production and the abolition of private property. Fascism/Natsoc is utopian, ultra-nationalist, imperialist capitalism and also class collaboration. The two are complete opposites and if you ever read a fucking book once in your life or had simple comprehension of anything, you would understand this.

you don't understand what class collaboration is. it shows.

read a book. Your kind are as socialist as Thatcher. So, not at all.

So you want Capitalism backed by the State? Congrats, wish fulfilled, now fuck off and learn the meaning of the term Socialism.

Seriously, what do you people have against
looking up fucking definitions

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pick one

You have to be trolling, there's no way you're this stupid.

On the other hand, you are from Holla Forums, so maybe you actually are.

Fellow burger here.

You're an idiot, and we're a country of idiots for thinking that liberal = left. Literally the entire rest of the world thinks we're wrong on this point.

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Nazbols?

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Cheka'd

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