Why is Holla Forums against feminism and anti-racism?

I mean, statisticly they are going to be, majority population and all.

...

We aren't most of us just have our priorities straight.

...

...

BLM can actually be revolutionary. I appreciate the anti-cop stance. However, there are a huge amount of liberals and retards bring BLM down in my book, it could be better its like black people have shit education due to material conditions. Makes me think

What and the first guy said. Identifying yourself as a feminist or anti-racist as such, especially within leftist circles, is kind of pointless and just comes off as virtue-signaling. Pretty much all commies worth a damn are for women and minority rights as a rule, and we just see the root of oppression to be the capitalist system. Take down capitalism and institute communism, and sexism and racism and so on will have no foundational basis upon which to thrive. Individual cases of bigotry may and likely will crop up, but a societal emphasis on mutual aid will make such stances extremely unpopular to say the least.

There's no real revolutionary potential in leftist social groups that mix ideologies all willy nilly. That's my biggest problem with groups like BLM and Antifa. No direction, no real plan, no cohesion. Miserable.

Im not against feminism and anti-racism.

I'm against concepts like patriarchy and "white supremacism" Which make solidarity impossible.

How?

Why is it that nobody seems to be able to define this beyond bogeymen and "YOU WHITE MALE!!"? Socialism transcends race and sex, and the people screaming it seemingly only want to focus on those two.

I wouldn't want most of the women or niggers to be fucking things up I care about.

Antiracism is great and necessary provided it's done with an understanding of the way "race" is intertwined with the class system under capitalism and it is only useful in that context. Without an analysis of class and the way race has historically and currently been used to justify and perpetuate structural inequality in material terms, 'antiracism' just an exercise in maintenance of discrete marketing demographics and a way to accumulate social capital ("virtue signalling" - though some people get butthurt when you say it because it's a "right wing term")

I do not support feminism because I want both sexes and everyone in between to be liberated from gender as a concept and I've worked in the real world with enough self-declared feminists to know that isn't what that movement is about.

partly because those issues can be used to divide and conquer
however there is a plan by Holla Forums to astroturf us with rw posts and make Holla Forums more reactionary, so you'll find more racism, anti semitism, anti islam, and mysoginy here than you used to.

No, it isn't. Only the idiots over at reddit think that. And LSR, who might browse reddit, honestly.

statistically minorities mostly seem to be disinterested in politics altogether
you might see a lot of lib minorities but statistically at least the few that are engaged are further to the left on average than whites

CNN please go away.

Probably not such a popular stance here but I am all for the rights of women, all races, and LGBTQ people.
The problem is when they start to take an "us vs. them" mentality and shift the focus away indefinitely from the struggle of the working class.
What I'm against is people like Dona Brazile saying shit like "we need to focus just on identity politics" and thus keeping the exact same system that oppresses people in place, but giving a black or trans person the ability to have unjustified power over people.
That's not liberation. It's subjecting people (including minorities) to the same horseshit.
T bi-fag.

Loose collectives, movements, hashtag coordination pockets, whatever you wanna call them. Don't be a pedant.

How about you fuck off?

We don't need to infect the leftist movement with your intersectional bullshit.

We should just not act on our drives to alienate or exclude people based on their race or religion or whatnots because it becomes a purity test full of purges and we push people apart from the aims of whatever you try to achieve.

Do not fall for this stupid cunt jewish tricks Holla Forums, you can be accepting of the people without being a """""""""""""""""""progressive """"""""""""""""""" activist, I've seen the tricks of weasels like OP time and time again, like during Atheism+.

BEGONE.

…
Anyway, the real reason the shifting of focus is bad is because it gives the capitalist ruling class the power they need to divide us. If we aren't a cohesive force, we have nothing. That is why class is the most important issue; capital is the unjust power that grants all others. A power hungry trans or black person is SOL in a communist society, just like a power hungry cis or white person. Under capitalism, however, sure, some individual with a desire to fuck everyone else over might have a shot. Hence, liberation is the destruction of capitalism, the force that upholds unjust power.

Why should I care? "Feminism" now is just about saving women from making stupid mistakes they shouldn't have made in the first place

Rolled 1, 5, 1, 6, 2, 2 = 17 (6d6)Feminism is a burgeoise movement. It's about having women in *supposedly* better positions in the current system.

Anti-racism is (generally) a burgeoise movement. It's about having (insert race) in supposedly better positions in the current system.

If you organize the left around those issues, they will change nothing when getting to power, only changing who will pocket the first rounds of poo from the owners (think human centipede).

If you want to change something, a racist wife-beater of a commie is more of your friend than Mr. Rodgers.

Because "leftists" are not for the 1% of yuppies who spend their free time getting offended by everything on the internet.

If you call yourself feminist/anti-racist. You can go kill yourself on twitter

Find a legal sect, not the idpol one, and lose yourself there. And stop calling you a leftist you lunatic

Neat reddit spacing guys. Racism and sexism are idpol, and being a "feminist" or an "anti-racist" in that you are against those, especially as they derive from the ruling class, is perfectly in line with leftist values. The fact that some bougie libs on twitter or tumblr pissed you off and said they were anti-racist is entirely besides the point

It's okay that they are leftist values. The question in OP is:
"Don't you think this could be a very effective form of organizing against the porky?"
I answered "No."

i'm not even registered on reddit, make a real argument, being a meme retard will not help you.

Here's some help for all the baby leftists new to the board who think "anti-idpol" means that we're anti-feminist or who think they're doing feminism by complaining on social media about who was excellent this week

Read past the first four words

You're wrong. Not showing solidarity to marginalized group will have exactly the dividing effect you're apparently so scared about. No body expects you to be a feminist in a liberal sense as would have you believe. There are leftist currents like for example Marxist Feminism. Otherwise all you're doing is dividing the movement in bourgeois interest by failing to lend a hand where it is needed.

I understood the question in OP to be closer to "why do you guys hate feminism/anti-racism" which I think the proper response to is "that's a strawman, we just hate liberal feminism and anti-racism". The bullshit where we just reinforce the right-wing narrative that idpol is just when anyone left of center worries about the rights of minorities or women is fucking toxic and entirely antithetical to a principled anti-idpol stance

I'm not , but feminism is a movement with an history and a philosophy. It's not just "anti-sexist".

Feminism as a movement has ties to socialism and was even spoken of by people like Engels early on. The idea that feminism starts with tumblr "feminists" and their predecessors is entirely ahistorical

You're missing the point. There are clearly people in this thread and on this board who are suggesting to ignore gender or race issues even if an analysis and solution are possible from an actually leftist perspective.

Movements for equality do not make comments about exterminating other groups of the population. They do not demonize other population groups for having different physiology. They do not try to force other groups into unwanted sexual activity.

Off you go to reddit, then.

Absolutely not

You know if you're actually coming at it from a genuinely leftist perspective and can argue your point it's not like you're getting kicked off the board. There are a range of opinions and at its base this board is mostly anti-racist and anti-sexist. The fact that there are people who disagree with you on this is immaterial to that it just means that there are people you want to be banned that aren't being banned

We aren't.
We are against making it the sole topic of leftism.

Fucking this. Stop fucking spewing your retardation in threads if you haven't even gone through the most basic reading lists or even the FAQ. Fucking newfags

If Holla Forums seems against feminist or anti-racist groups it is usually because these groups are in support of capitalism
In many cases, these groups aren't seeking better conditions for all exploited workers but only for those of their kind
They don't want to stop a worker from being exploited so long as the exploiter is not a white male
Instead they want exploiters of all colors and of any gender so they can call it progress
These are the type of "feminism" and "anti-racism"

The same solution a racist wife-beater would help you more in achieving than an "outraged" activist who just wants a cookie. You can't offer real solutions to people who are under the spell. It's easier to teach feminism to a communist than to teach communism to a liberal.

Kek

This is a good line. Should be meme'd more

What the fuck are you blabbering about?

How did you conclude that from my post? I just think there's a good chunk of people here who actually act like I described in my original post and these people should be confronted. My point was that suggesting that people here don't behave in such a way like did completely ignores the problem.

see , who decided to delete and repost…

What exactly is the problem with ?

I'm asking what you're blabbering about because you're implying that Luxemburg, Engles, etc. are "propaganda" meaning you're kind of an idiot

That you think those texts are in any way relevant to a feminist movement that runs on Dworkin, hooks, Butler and Millet, then berate others as idiots for seeing through you demonstrates clearly that you are actively dissembling.

I wasn't solely talking about liberals. You know, there are also communists affected by these kinds of problems. Besides that, I think offering an alternative leftist feminist solution to the liberal feminist mainstream is a good way to radicalize people since on the one hand it provides a more refined alternative and on the other hand it signals to them that leftism is a movement where their problems aren't ignored. If you don't care about these problems fine but at least consider the tactical side of things.

There were two very clear points to the post, which is that we should reject liberal feminism that is exemplified by some of the authors you mentioned, and that we should hold up socialist feminism exemplified by the authors listed in the infographic. This infographic has been on Holla Forums forever and incredibly non-controversial to anyone who's been here for over a month. There is nothing to "see through" the post as there were no hidden intentions, but you do seem to be slightly unhinged so this is probably a waste of time to explain.

There's nothing wrong with the reading material but

I'm not, I just think leftism often gets hijacked by idpol Capitalist who have 0 interest in advancing class struggle.

oh yeah those rich first world bourgeoisie white western females sure are victims of oppression.
please focus on womens issues and not class struggle. ivanka trump is a nice lady who is oppressed.

its not like 3rd wave feminism is a tool used by neoliberal capitalism

No you've just been blabbering the same shitty talking points for over a year and getting told to shut up very single time. Ultimately, you'd not be trying to push people into accepting the label feminist if you weren't trying to induct people into the movement we've all rejected. You'd happily allow your arguments stand on their own. Your need to press the label on others is a clear indicate you are not different to the """liberal feminists""" you claim to disparage. Return to whence you came.

Lol yeah now you're really convinced me you aren't unhinged. Who the fuck are you and why the fuck are you convinced I've ever engaged with you before?

Leftypol isn't against feminism and anti-rascism, they're against micro-nationalists.
t. Bookchin

Asking this question, here? Go back.

Lol kys, fucking retard.

Nice argument, there.

Nice projection faggot. Other than you sperging out at me now no one has ever told me to "shut up" because I'm usually right. If you had a counterpoint other than "kek" and a weird schizo rant you would have brought it. But you don't have one so you didn't.

Last chance, do you have any argument other than "I don't like the word 'feminism'"? I'm guessing not

Feminism has "ties" to lots of different kinds of ideologies, you're not really saying much here. It isn't inherently pro or anti capitalist, stop trying to frame it that way.

The point is that from the very beginning, including the prominent writings of Engels and Marx, marxism has dealt with women's liberation and there is no socialism that doesn't in some way address it. You can pretend it's an entirely unrelated issue but I'd rather focus the issue rather than ignore it and hope that shitlibs don't continue to steer the conversation on a subject we are much better equipped to address.

not him, but do you have any argument other than that you DO like the word "feminism"?

"socialist feminism" was relatively short-lived and is a dead current in the feminist movement in the west and has been for literal decades. is it just nostalgia that makes people want to cling to the label? Or the fact that "feminism" is still less tarnished than "socialism" so we feel that attaching ourselves to it and claiming to be the be the torchbearers of a mythologised historical authentic feminism will make people more sympathetic to socialism?

seriously, when people talk about feminism, they aren't talking about your special strain from last century or shit that some kurds are doing, however admirable it may be in the context of the local culture. they are talking about the movement and ideology as it exists in the mainstream of western politics right now, that began at seneca falls and is running on philosophies of the likes of mckinnon, friedan, hanisch, greer and others like those mentioned in

liberal feminists won. sorry, but they are the authentic feminists now. if liberal feminism ever collapses as an ideology the way Marxism-Leninism did, then we can start disputing their legacy and entitlement to the label, but until then it's just pissing in the wind.

There is a big difference between an ideologically coherent group and a loose movement. Seriously kys faggot. Also lose the flag because you're making actual leftcoms look fucking retarded.

I don't particularly care one way or another what you call it honestly which is why the entire interaction is so bizarre in the first place. The point remains that I believe addressing gender inequalities in your capitalist critique is both useful and inextricably tied to socialism, which is why it prominently features in books like the ones I referenced above. I also think that if you say "this critique isn't *feminism*, it's something else" it's somewhere around as misguided as people who want to entirely relabel/repackage socialism and hope people don't notice what you're selling them.

Only insofar as socialism in general has been such a dead current in the west. In the few places that genuine socialist critiques have persisted, so too has genuine socialist feminism

But honestly, if the entire fight is about whether or not we call it "feminism" or not then I could give less of a shit except that I'm warning that there will be people who continue to bring up socialist feminist critiques entirely in-line with a real leftist worldview, and that newfags will continue to screech that this is exactly the same as whatever latest screed got shit out of tumblr.

I literally don't give a shit what you do or what you support so consider yourself absolved my dude. You really should work on your weird fucking demeanor though. See the other guy I responded to? That's how a normal human being making the same points as you're making talks and argues.

Movements for equality do not make comments about exterminating other groups of the population. They do not demonize other population groups for having different physiology. They do not try to force other groups into unwanted sexual activity.

Off you go to reddit, then.

Absolutely not

So, you're arguing for social conformity now?

I guess if it's conformist to not be a creepy sperg writing fanfiction about your invented online interactions with someone for over a year like in then sure I'm a conformist

FFS, can't delete this spammed up post after the cat jumped on the mouse.

kek

I wasn't even on this board for the last month since I've been traveling

Sage

...

So you're mad at the general idea of a group of people disagreeing with you?

99% of feminists I've ever interacted with have been proudly racist, sexist, and completely opposed to genuine progress on a variety of important social issues. Feminism is inherently divisive and has caused the collapse (or complete neutering) of numerous leftist organizations including Occupy. On a personal note, I've been told multiple times by feminists that my suffering doesn't matter and that I should just kill myself.
Fuck feminism.
I refuse to share any movement with those cunts.

No.

...

Night time on the east coast is when all the retards come out. This place has been crawling with clapistanis recently and it shows

Before someone whines, in pic related there is a lot of the first two still going on, but the third is becoming prevalent, turning people away. See below.
Third pic is just a funny vid I came across.

People don't want to support their current form.
It's not the ideas that matter, but the political forces behind them, and trying to implement them.

I feel that people don't make the distinction often enough, I hate the many people (of course mostly Holla Forums, but here seems a bit too) seem to have this tainted idea of feminism and anti-racism that tumblr and BLM gave them, like that was it, and that's all to it.

Pic unironially related.
Some "activists" lack every type of self-awareness about a lot of things, and the failure of mainstream femisnism to heavily distance themselves from these groups is what's hurting the cause.

"Progressive" normalfags will back anything that has the feminist label stamped on it.
And if it's hard to swallow they'll say "maybe it's my own prejudice, and narrow-mindness".
Seen it all too often.

Mind of course not always but this happens

Feminism and anti-racism should be about equal opportunity, structural change, encouraging women to come out as victims of violence, and make violence be punished.
Instead it's safespaces, defending some kid caught on camera aiming a gun at a police officer, and thinking women are always right.

Turned away from a culture of empowerment to victimization.
The problem is that the only people willing to call out the sick elements, are usually the diametral opposition.
Many people here just see it as impractical at this point, and focus on class warfare that should bring about the other changes, at least in part.

But I'm a CIS white male, what do I know.

Socialism has tended to mean the destruction of feudal relations and the introduction of the market

That's not a bad thing.

Get the fuck out.

Jesus christ I hate pedantic autists. There are critiques of gender relations under capitalism in her letters. If you read her letters, you will get a better understanding on those issues than you will be reading tumblr literature on those same topics. That's true no matter how much you REEEEEEEE about it

Feminism and Anti racism is first world reactionary scum
Thank you, make sure to check out my books and tune in next week for more grilling content,
From maoistrebelnews

This is one of the truly irritating thing about feminists is the tendency to claim people expressing any thoughts on gender relations that could in any way be conceived of as sympathetic to their aims as """theirs""", even if those who wrote the original texts expressly disavowed feminism.

It's not pedantic to call you out in trying to appropriate a historical figure for you "team", when that person utterly rejected your movement. Get the fuck back to reddit and don't come back.

It is pretty pedantic.

Lmao then change the title at the top of the image to something other than "feminism". Anyone who seriously thinks that this line of critique is a strong one is the worst kind of non-arguing pedant

If that's not pedantic than nothing is. The only point I made from the very beginning was "don't read what those tumblr feminists have to say on the subject. these people wrote most of the stuff worth reading on the subject". If you have a problem with that, address that premise.

It's not pedantry. Stop trying to claim monopoly on the concept of gender equality. Thanks.

Nobody is talking about having a monopoly on the concept of "gender equality". You're getting pissy over nothing

I'm not "claiming" anything you dense fucking faggot. Are you the same person jumping up and down about how I'm "making you" join a movement and use a label? It's pretty fucking rich that I respond to a thread full of idpol libs and Holla Forums-tier fags saying "hey stop being dumbasses, these are what you should read on the subject" and the only person still assmad about it is you.

Literally the only reason to claim that writers outside feminism passing critique in gender relations where in fact feminists is in order for the feminist movement to establish itself as the only as the only source for such critique and thus getting anything their movement desires by default.

Funny, you're accusing others of being mad while writing an invective filled polemic. :^)

I'm accusing you about being mad at something not worth your reaction. Your faggotry has, indeed, got me riled up. Congrats on noticing.

Honestly, what does feminism desire that's against socialism? I've only seen extreme tankies and ultras force this narrative of "No, no, no, we can't call it feminism because then they get what they want"

It's stupid imo. Who cares if someone at a later time describes it as feminism.

Feminism and idpol have done immense and probably unrecoverable damage to leftist movements worldwide, you have no power here progs and libs.

I'm more pro femminism (not tumblr shit tho) than anti-racism. I don't see racism as a real problem in today's world. I'm not american tho

If you believe that feminism has done more damage to socialist movements then the US Government, you're stupid

If you blame America enough, maybe people will forget that feminists spout shit about patriarchy, or muh privilege, or other such shit.

Feminism != gender equality

If you want to talk about gender equality, then fine, but you're preaching to the choir. It's like asking physicists to also label themselves Newtonian because we still study gravity. You'd be laughed out of the room, but feminists have the gall to come to socialists and ask them to virtue signal so they can continue to claim that if you believe in gender equality, then you must be a feminists. Go fuck yourself, faggot.

If you honest to god believe that feminism is more of a threat to socialism then the US Government and its allies you're fucking naive

Holy fuck you are a faggot. Stop watching youtube compilations and read a fucking book. Yes, the CIA is worse for socialism than blue haired feminists you sargon watching dweeb

You people are a cancer that rots a movement from the inside out. People like you deserve nothing but contempt. You provide nothing but more bitching about how your ideology isn't catered to enough.
You're right to say the US gov is a threat to socialism, bit you spend your time bitching at is about feminism instead of doing something about whay you know is the bigger threat. You only bring it up to deflect criticism. Next time I want to jave stupid positions, I'll bitch about the US and claim that you shouldn't mind be cuz 'merica.

Traitors and saboteurs are worse than an enemy soldier.

wtf I love porky now

Sounds exactly like what you're doing right now.

damn I'm glad I never have to worry about interacting with people like you irl

Yeah, a socialist wanting to talk about socialism on a socialist board. What a fucking loon.

Wtf, me too? I want that too?

Don't worry, when you go up agains the wall, we'll interact from a distance, at the tune of 175 grains of socialist lead.

Sure thing dipshit

Then why bitch that leftypol isn't feminists enough?

Or you can just hate both.

I'm way, way more involved and respected in socialist politics in the west than you are, guaranteed. Funnily enough I'm also the kind of person that's usually called a "brocialist" by actual libfems, not that you would know anything about real life politics because you'd rather tweak your weird fanfiction than talk real nuance.

As far as I'm aware this argument sprouted from people bitching about this post

Which is completely ass hurt sounding.

I do, but I will never, ever abide the kind of retard who thinks that the problem of western imperialism, especially the CI-fucking-A, is anywhere close to whatever shrieking feminist he saw on youtube last week.

Nice move.

Yeah that's basically what happened which shows just the amount of newfaggotry on this board these days, as that reading list is old as hell and completely uncontroversial with the old guard here

This thread triggered lots of unironic brocialists I see. Really brought out lots of Holla Forumstards and unironic "socialism is about hating liberals and aligning with fashies like USSR and Nazi Germany did under Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact" tankies out of the woodwork. I'm just fucking speechless.

Your argument was literally "I will put you against the wall hurr durr" LARPy bullshit like the teenage edgelord retard you are

We have people, right now, trying to co-opt worker movements and steer them into idpol playgrounds for feminists. The US government and the UK government give feminists whatever they want. So yeah, they are a threat. I won't tolerate either. So I don't get your bitching about how a shot in the gut is worse than a kick to the balls. I'm opposed to both.

Nice bait. Next time don't use that flag though, it gives it away too easily.

Yeah, Rosa Luxemburg wasn't a feminist. Why is she included in that pic? The argument goes that she wrote about feminist themes, but gender equality isn't the same as feminism. So, then, why the insistence of labeling these things feminism?

That was a response to a non-argument. It wasn't an argument at all.

It's basically the same shit, everyone is arguing pedantic bullshit just as much as any radfem would.

Its a coup!

There will never, ever be a cohesive socialist movement that doesn't deal in women's liberation and gender equality. The idea that you can divorce those ideas from the label of feminism is pure delusion. If you want to try be my guest but it is a fool's errand and the number of people who have as strict of a dichotomy as (which doesn't even exist historically) is near non-existent anyway

No, it's not, else why would Rosa refuse to label herself as such?

ein sage ein post ein retard

Your response was that I was giving a "shit argument" but now when it's convenient I actually wasn't giving an argument.

You have to go back

Because she didn't identify herself as it, that doesn't mean some of her work isn't within the realm of the topic.

This is "marx didn't call himself a marxist" tier

Not the same as feminism. As I said, you are preaching to the choir.

No, it isn't. You do not have a monopoly on gender equality. Every day less women identify as feminists, and none of them stopped believing in gender equality. How is this possible if it's as you say?

commodified "feminism" and "anti-racism" peddled by clintonite shitposter industry is entirely fictional, any semblance to actual people and events is purely coincidental

Okay, then Marx was Nazbol because he called someone a nigger.

Gender roles exist because men and women are different. A true socialist would not force a woman to deviate from her natural inclination toward homemaking and motherhood.

Source on this? And why is it relevant? Or, if it is true, why are you assuming the political reasons for them doing so?

Not an argument

Because you responded to a long post with
You stupid faggot.

Why not?

Stop posting, you're making this place worse.

Why do you keep talking like this? I'm not a libfem or even explicitly identified or even primarily preoccupied with feminism. My only claims in this entire thread was that the list in is:
1. a good take on the topics covered by feminism
2. better than the usual libfem arguments on the subject.
The only objections I have received are "don't use that word" which is some of the most ironically liberal arguments I've ever heard on this board. Stop being triggered by a fucking label

gender roles exist to enslave and manipulate

Yes it is. Rosa intentionally did not want to be labeled as such because she believed it to be a bourgeois ideology that misses the point.

Reactionary pls

No, I gave you real - if snide - advice about engaging in leftism irl and you just doubled down on your shitty LARPy attitude

Because women should be free from coercion; to force them into work when they in fact naturally wish to raise children and maintain the home is neo-patriarchal and oppressive.

You refuse to stop trying to insert idpol sabotage so you are an enemy. Simple as that.

Again, her work is within the realm of the topic, which is much more broad then it was when she was alive.

Whoa slow down with the ghost story user

idpol isn't "when politics is related to women or minorities". it's when the argument is built from the differences of idenitity.

As I understand it, you can make women obey reproduction laws with the flip of the switch ala China or North Korea.

Sometimes rationing children is necessary, and there's nothing unsocialist about this.

larp larp larp

You're not a libfem, but you just really want everuone on leftypol to embrace feminism, even though you know we are not against gender equality. Why is this?

Very well put.

real-life roleplaying exists to castrate human freedom

Because you refuse to read about the topic you're declaring yourself an expert on

marx disagrees with your view on women

I'm not saying women are an instrument of production, I'm saying that rationing children isn't somehow against socialism.

But I am involved, and being a member of your school's chapter of whatever limp-dicked socialist club doesn't count.

What a disingenuous question. The books in the infographic are good, and are a good and necessary replacement for the typical feminist literature given on tumblr. Those are my only assertions. Refute those points or don't bother. I'm not here for you to play sherlock with hidden motivations that don't exist.

Because modern incarnations are largely dominated by liberals and thus ineffective at negating gender, sex, racial, or any other kind of discrimination and oppression. I don't see any reason to work with them for feels or engage in useless debates with reactionaries we would be shooting anyways, when being a communist already comes with the territory of negating opression. I would unirnoically fuck an anfem though.

I haven't been in school for a decade but feel free to keep projecting.

You keep saying this, but that's only if you assume Rosa was a rwtard and made the distinction for no reason, or it could be that gender equality is not the same as feminism.

Don't even bother, lots of people here are not even aware that we don't need excessive amount of humans brought into this world. We are simply reaching overcapacity of what our planet will be able to sustain to begin with. Especially with modern birth control methods, there is nothing wrong with family planning efforts.

anti-natalism as a stance doesn't explicitly tie in to the argument on gender equality though

I'm not saying "Rosa is a retard" at all, women's rights in socialism remains a topic because the problems have changed. There's not this progression of history some things are solved, and everything else is liberal horse shit.

Reading Rosa on the topic of gender roles, even if she didn't call herself a feminist, on feminism, isn't even that big of a fucking deal.

But we don't need feminist literature here. We get the concept of gender equality. You can also feel free to not suggest abolitionist iterature. We get that concept too. Rosa should be read because she wrote about socialism first, and shouldn't be treated as just another woman who wrote about gender issues.

That image was at least a couple years old fuck off

Funny how none of you fags are to be seen responding to it in the reading list here , when the infographic was already old. Almost as if you guys are newfags that weren't even here in january

But that wasn't the original complaint. The complaint is that she was being labeled as something she repudiated.

We get it you're a newfag and someone on reddit told you this is an edgy place where you can say retard and nigger without people getting mad. Well it's true, you can say all those thongs but the flip side is that people will call you a retard when you're being retarded.

'Feminism' is the most meaningless fucking buzzword of recent times.
I see, what I would consider, feminism on this board all the time, but when it comes to actually using the term Holla Forums spergs out. Maybe rightly so, because, again, the term is devoid of any meaning and gets you associated with neon-haired crazies, instead of any actual political position on women's rights.

So what, she's dead

Holy fuck can we get off the "label" thing? She has a good take on the subjects feminists usually talk about. You should read her books as well as the others on the list and not only will you have a good take on those subjects but will have a good response to libfems who want to press you on those subjects. No one here gives a flying fuck what you call it this is such a boring fucking argument.

Marx was nazbol and you can't complain because he's dead, even if I use his name to push my retarded ideology.

see

Nice projection. Stay golden.

Where's the lie?

You're the one upset over a picture that was here before you started posting

NAZBOL HIJACK LOL

You're getting triggered by a several years old popular Holla Forums infographic. Everyone can see perfectly well who the newfag is

I never went to the sughestions thread and I'm only complaining about people calling someone pedantic for stating a fact, then refusing to acknowledge that fact.

This argument is pure pedantry though

Are you sure you know what pedantry is? Because you're not really swaying us away from that

Maybe this is a sign

No, it wasn't. But even if that were the case, what does it change the fact that feminism is, has always been, and will always be bourgeois?

Tell me what insightful things does Marxist feminism have to say that I likely don't know? If you tell me, I will write a fucking book report for you and post it here with a timestamp. You can suggest any book. Do it, pussy.

I don't know, why don't you fucking read

Nobody knows you so how could people actually say on what you do or do not know

A sign that I don't really need an internet board to tell me what to read. I have my own reading list that I'm working through. I don't have so much time in a day that I can run out of things to read, though admittedly I read technical manuals more than any philosophy.

see

Which one is the best for starters?

The books on that list are pretty fucking entry level bro. If your really haven't read ANY of them then that's a shit list as even a non-feminist reading list for a socialist should cover at least a couple of them

Engels

I read about socialism because someone gave me a quick theme that I didn't know about. If that's your argument, maybe it iust confirms that you have nothing to offer and just want to spread a label.

Engels imo

No, my argument is I want you to read more than fucking technical manuals.

Well, if I kever read feminist lit and yet claim to believe in gender equality, then what am I missing?

I'm not here to fucking feed you an entire summary of multiple books in a post.

Again, why? I don't see myself getting anything out of them. I'm not an academic, so studying them just to learn the history of just a portion of an idea seems like a waste of time.

Engels or Beauvoir
Rosa is great too and you should read her anyway

Wew

Also you are a massive tool my dude

I mean you don't have to but if you have a genuine interest in socialism then Engels and Rosa at least are solid reads. I am of course working off the assumption that you enjoy reading about socialism to begin with but if you don't I certainly can't give you an interest in it.

You don't know anything about them, but you're probably right, if only because you're too thick to really get much out of anything.

Then please don't complaim when people dislike feminism. I didn't ask you for a summary either. Just something that you thought was interesting to be expanded in the text. Kind of like how if I give you a book about lambda calculus , I might say it's good for an aspiring programmer to learn about set theory because of x or y reasons. Then you would be more likely to read it, instead of just dismissing it as specialized math.

You didn't ask to be educated on a subject, you asked for the entirety of the worth of several books given to you on the spot. If you have a specific question on the subject we would be happy to help.

I have Rosa in my reading list, but that has nothing to do with the rest of that infograph.

Cool, read those and add the Engels one

I read for things I can use. So if you can't give me one reason I should read something, then I won't. I haven't failed to understand the concept of gender equality or how to implement it into my daily life, so what am I missing that I jave to read more about it?

That's the thing I don't have a question on the subject of gender equality, but you people say that because I dislike feminism, it must be that I just don't know, hence that infograph was posted. What is it that I am missing and why should I read any of those books, other than Rosa, of course, brcause she stands on her own.

I get it, you have nothing. No need to be mad.

If you haven't at least read Engels On the Origin of the Family

Why post here

They explain rather broadly how gender dynamics are structured and reinforced by capitalism, what influences those structures have on socialization between the genders, etc. Books like the Engels one are fantastic for explaining many of the social ramifications when it comes to gender and family dynamics and it isn't really geared to just one gender and it isn't just "treat everyone equally" either - which seem to be the largest misconceptions here. The other books on the list go deeper with that type of analysis and if you find it interesting when rosa and engels discuss it then they may be worth your while, otherwise those two will at least give you a broad understanding that is useful to any socialist.

I'm more interested on the topic of cybernetics and the implementation of socialism. Gender equality seems like such a no-brainer that I don't get why this thread was made, other than wanting leftypol users to start calling themselves feminists, even though no opinions have changed. This, quite obviously, seems like idpol.

newfags think idpol is when "women" is printed on the page and think Engels is feminist propaganda not worth reading now

Because the issues that modern day women/minorities have are class based. Having more diverse CEOs isn't going to solve anything.

If you think that "On the Origin of the Family" is idpol you are a lost cause

Even if I was mad it wouldn't make you any less of a stupid cock sucker.

See, I get that, which is why any woman fighting for women's rights should be a socialist, same as men's rights. But that doesn't mean socialists should be eager to label themselves as either. Now my source for this insight was actually when I was going through divorce and my brother, the real socialist in the family explained it to me. This is why I don't currently post about punching women in the cunt. I didn't accept this idea out of a kindness for women. To me it's self-interest, amd I think that's a stronger motivator. Now, I will check out Engels and Rosa was already in my reading list. Engels might be too deep as I did not major in philosophy. But yeah, basically my whole problem with the insistence on the label feminists is that the idea does not belong to that movement and I myself did not come into that real mindset through any kind of feminists angle, quite the opposite, in fact.

I never called the books idpol. I said the suggestion that leftypol needs feminism is idpol.

We didn't always used to be this way, comrade, but over time as we've gained more users, made better memes, got more people who actually read books to help in arguments, we've been convincing more and more Holla Forumsacks that Capitalism is actually really shitty. Only problem is they're Holla Forumsacks, and they just end up misunderstanding what the core user base ever actually meant by anti-idpol, instead just using it as a thinly veiled excuse to retain the racism and sexism they picked up on Holla Forums but now all in the colour red.

This place has gone to shit because of it, and honestly I'd just recommend making the move to left twitter.

I think maybe you fundamentally misunderstand why the infographic was made and continues to be useful. When women leftists ask "what are you going to do about women's liberation" (and keep in mind women are proles and its in their self interest to ask this question) it is good to have a proper thorough answer. The point isn't to brag about how "we're the real feminist" or to bicker over labels, and I maintain it's entirely immaterial whether you call that material feminist or not. As has been discussed to death in this thread, a few people on that list considered themselves to not be feminists and the rest did, but their critiques are largely in line with each other and entirely compatible with socialism, and I heavily recommend them to anyone who has an active interest in the subject either to learn or teach.

Now if you don't have an interest already I'm certainly not "forcing" or "pushing" anyone to be reading any of it (though it's honestly a real shame for anyone to not read the Engels piece).

Origins of the Family is trash and belongs in the dustbin. Engels's baseless speculation about 'primitive communism' has been thoroughly refuted by modern anthropological and historical research and there is absolutely no evidence of matriarchal societies having ever existed in the history of our species.

Funny.

Everyone itt needs to read this book:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/index.htm

Why are liberals obsessed with feminism and anti-racism in an age where they are negligible issues in the day to day life of most people?

does Holla Forums even try anymore ?

This only partly right. Id learn someones bs pronoun and not trigger them if theyll join the barricades and spread marxian revolution. And if some doesnt want racism the democratic control of the means of production is the way to end that racism.

It's leaking into this board too. Fucking idpol infects everything.

That's like saying Holla Forums is bad because Holla Forums is on the same site

Ftfy

Can you recommend an updated work about it?

Gee, I'd love to read one of those "modern refutations" of Engels' "baseless speculation" considering after a quick Wikipedia search I found two articles talking about how Engels was actually proven right.
This one even talks about the legacy of the theory and why it was dismissed by anthropologists of the twenties (tldr: because of politics and academic rivalry) and thoroughly debunks them:
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/index.htm
I've read the book myself, and I found it to be pretty much in line with the historical facts that I was aware of. There are obviously inaccuracies, its sources are over a century old, but it was a brilliant book for its time and even today its surreal just how close to the mark it hits

Fug, wrong article
libcom.org/history/engels-was-right-early-human-kinship-was-matrilineal

Don't know why I'm responding to this, I'm in that bored/tired mood I guess.
Feminism has 100% became a bourgeois movement. It sells t-shirts and so on, it opens up new markets to businesses. It bourgeois. Women have equal wages to men when compared correctly.
Wouldn't be surprised, doesn't matter. Just background and socioeconomic persistence through inheritance.
Anti racism is a clear component of socialism. It doesn't socialism if it doesn't freedom.
What? Social liberalism wasn't relevant when slavery was kicking around?
Such a general point. I can't begin to tell you if I agree.
Social liberalism doesn't sit well with me. I don't support reformism. I don't see this sticking well. I don't believe there are any significant social issues to be addressed in our times except maybe refugees/immigration, but even that is baby cake compared to Communism/Socialism. If the United States, Germany, France, etc… each took in 10 million refugees (lol), their would still be 100 millions left, fucked as before. The issue with social liberalism (liberalism in general really) is how susceptible it is to the market and how little they change. You can see this with falling wages in the U.S. and general lackluster policy from liberals. For example, they can't afford to really dig in to shitty neighborhoods and revitalize them, the market fucks them. If they could, I don't know, straight up requisition land from landowners, then problems such as systemic poverty could be fixed easier. Plus these movements are always coopted by market forces. Think of the Beyonce sweatshirt incident or whatever.

Speaking as someone who has been here basiclally since the start, this is blatantly untrue. People have been crying and saying "WOAH THE BOARD HAS GONE SO BAD ITS DA RACISTSEXISMS!" basically since we hit 300 members, and it has almost always been from newfags who have migrated from another place during an upwards spike of content whilst never contributing a damn thing themselves. I'm also not seeing the secret racism and sexism here, only people getting butthurt at the potential presence of it and throwing around accusations.

Please leave for Twitter and take as many likeminded people as you can, the board will be better in your absence.

It's not rocket science understanding the white left. It's a coalition of the childless most of whom are bitter, twisted and resentful about it on the most primitive psychic level, seemingly unable to even empathize with the fundamental drive of all life. They don't actually have a clue what's going on, nor are they motivated by justice or genuine compassion or anything of the sort, they simply feel entirely trapped within themselves, and to compensate have become addicted to parroting whatever prefabricated script allows them to entertain a hollow simulacrum of a meaningful and decent life, and wear it as a mask while externalizing their own dysfunction, dissolving their self into the mythopoeic jargon of grand historical progress while indulging in the deepest egotism, claiming society will finally transcend itself at long last if you only just listen to them and forcibly install their latest batch of Orwellian slogans into the zeitgeist and state religion.

Holla Forums overwhelmingly consists of self-loathing white bois who feel personally threatened by the dominant leftist discourse and the ascendant right, by cryptically elevating themselves as rationalist intellectuals and the carriers of the torch of the true esoteric teachings, embodied in the (implicitly white male) dialect of the old movement. They can't imagine that they're really part of the problem, as themselves the irreparably broken spawn of modern capitalist society, because that's not how this thing works.

You're ALWAYS going to come up empty looking for rhyme or reason beyond the reptile brain and mass psychology with these people.

My gosh, I'm not saying you can't be feminist or anti-racist as a tendency; you ought to be both of these things in order to be a proper communist. My point is that if you shift the focus of a Marxist board or otherwise Marxist circles to a more socially-oriented one, then you start to lose a coherent grip on analysis and praxis. The Black Panthers were an excellent example of anti-racist Marxism in action. BLM is hogwash because they are too focused on the social and not actually focused on what causes racism.

/thread

What is the materialist explanation, exactly? As far as I can see, racism and sexism long predates capitalism, and Marx himself would make racist remarks, a fact you explain by "cultural standards". Meanwhile Marx's home, the pinnacle of Western Civilization, chose racial Fascism over Communism when it came down to it. How are they to think the same will not happen again during material collapse from climate change etc, unless they empower representatives of the whole proletariat, especially as the predominant cultural narrative also reduplicates itself in the subjectivities of the existing minorities? How are women wrong to suggest the pre-1970's Marxist discourse was overwhelmingly predominated by men and thus infused with their unconscious biases? Despite all that re-education and relative material equality the populace in ex-Communist states are far more racist, patriarchal, homophobic and the like than the West. Marx's own thoughts on why collectivization of the peasantry was necessary is that it brings them out of their state of parochial isolation and into mutual intercourse with the rest of society. Is that not the whole point of constructing the multicultural fabric and feminist consciousness, through enhancing the overall MATERIAL standing of women etc, first?

whites whites whites
you are all fucking white males
none of you are free from whiteness

...

Some are. Some aren't. Others don't care at all.

You can't generalize.

I'm in favor of feminism & anti-racism. Not as policies, law or anything through but as in if a black guy is being provoked by racial slurs he can knock the rascist fuck out (or I can help him out knocking the racist bitch out). It's just a simple:

And I considern Feminism a form of Anarchy. At least OG anarchism the one of Emma Goldman or Rosa Luxembourg.It's about aboloshing the institution of marriage, gender roles & types of hierarchy in general.

Because chan boards attract edgy retards.
Anti idpol is genuinely retareded. even if you think that patriarchy will disappear with capitalism we need to have solidarity between all oppressed peoples across the world. without solidarity we can never overcome capitalism.

Admit it, you're only 'in it' so you can fantasize about gulaging your bogeymen.

no im in it because individuals that don't want to be oppressed by racism are part of my power too. I consider them my friends.
my friends are my power & I'm the power of my friends. the more we are the better tbqh.

I have answered most of this already. Just read the thread.
Asfor the history waffle, I actually don't really care about pre-capitalist societies in this case because the thrust of my point relies on a future trajectory, not dwelling on past conditions. The failures known as "post-communist" societies that you mention are of no consequence to me either. They didn't institute workers' liberation, and so their failures are on their heads. Far as I can tell, the few societies that did pull off real communism throughout history mostly had pretty equal and liberated situations. The reason is obvious: the emphasis in those societies was on worker liberation and mutual aid. I shouldn't have to point this out, but a society that literally requires the cohesion of everyone's productive forces in order to function optimally doesn't really have room for sexism and racism and so on.

I don't think you should be calling anyone else retarded.

not a good move

Nigger this isn't a Sargon video no one gives a fuck about your weak ass strawmen shoved into every youtube compilation.

Here's a thought, maybe trigglypuff and the rest get so many views because people don't actually see them much of anywhere.

Pretty sure it IS the majority opinion here. ofc we support equality, but capitalism is main problem and you only shit the bed by diverting attention from it for identity issues. equity is already there in the law, the rest of the way can only be achieved with change of material conditions aka communism

List?

Probably Rev. Spain

...

...

That's not even going to happen so don't worry about it. But in general Holla Forums and Holla Forums demographics are similar so we have similar concerns, just different solutions.

globalization is a spook

It's faggots like you who have tainted the word

I wish the mods were pro-active in banning people who write words totally unacceptable to the rl left like faggot or nigger. And ban porn as well, to keep the creeps out.

first comment best comment

Fuck off nigger faggot I realize that unnecessary swearing is detrimental to this board's quality/discussion but c'mon dude it's called leftist politically incorrect, you expect r/socialism

these are great images. I think the 2nd one could use a bit more nuance but 1 and 3 are very good

Back to reddit now.

You comment is just yet another rephrasing of the "few bad apples" claim, which is ludicrous given the constant stream of contrary evidence.

It's shitty IDpol. It's not uniting, it's excluding. 'Anti-racism' is being used exclusively against white people. By focussing on an anti racism that is only applied to whites, you automatically exclude whites. Feminism just provokes, and exploits the male vs female dynamics. There is little to no good coming out of feminism. And on top of it all it just serves the elite, because now they can work both men and women to dead on meaningless slave careers.

I can get behind why people think anti racism is something that should be promoted. I can't get behind feminism, maybe for 2nd or 3rd world countries but in first world countries it is being used to push women into careers so wealth and productivity can be extracted from them as well. Of course birth rates are declining because of this in the west because when women get pushed into careers nobody haves time in the family to take care of kids.

Education only brings blacks so far. Even in Europe with free access to education they perform terrible compared to every other ethnicity, even worse than arabs who don't speak the country's language.

Either a false-flag or a reddit refugee but either way fuck off

Are you really doing the "all blacks are all niggers" routine? The material conditions surrounding Arab cultures allowed it to flourish much more than Africa. While the Middle East and Africa were both under colonialism, the Arabs had a more developed civilization at that time and even post-imperialism their economies have improved (thanks mostly to the petrodollar and governments being friendly to the "West"). African civilization is markedly less-developed for a long time (save Egypt, Ethiopians etc.) and therefore it has lead Africa to be exploited for generations by private individuals/empires/trade companies etc who wish to make a profit. A huge bulk of the world's minerals rest in Africa but of course all that wealth goes elsewhere. The inequality in Africa is needed to maintain the current capitalist state of market expansion.

I highly doubt that BK workers have that high pay in DK. I'm from Sweden and I have a friend that works at BK. His pay sucks, he has no vacation (only a extra addon on his pay but it's fucking nothing) and a pension plan that is pretty much nothing. He has a second job so he can afford rent and food.
Most of the youth that has work here live paycheck from paycheck, just like in America.

Damn, I forgot leftypol was for the racist left. Easy to forget since the subject so often elided and disavowed.

I dont reject egalitarianism, I reject focus on social issues.
Race is pseudoscience and women dont deserve less respec tthan men, so you shouldnt treat people preferentially based on this. Doing so is bad.
I still firmly reject "anti racism" and feminism as the things they typically describe in modern discourse, which is not just this point, but a dedicated and passionate focus on these things in particular. I also reject that this obsessive neurosis is a prerequisite for that belief in treating people fairly and that 'race' or gender arent good reasons to treat people badly.
Generally most anti-racists parrot some canned lines about racism(which are actually correct) and treat them as an excuse for their retarded racial essentialism, and feminists do similar things to justify retarded gender tribalism.
Suggesting we appeal to people who are obsessed with identititarian tribalism is like suggesting we turn the reactionaries into tankies, or get the theocratic zealot [religion here] people in on this. Appeal to these things would be good and useful if it didnt carry all the baggage of toothless, pro-(regulated)capitalist liberal perversions of this.

Hey, I'm an Anarchist here, so I'm not some silly anti-SJW. I recognize that class oppression is not the only kind of oppression that needs to be eliminated. There's racism, transphobia, patriarchy, etc. Liberal Feminism certainly is a bourgeois movement. However, like a typical Lib, libfems address symptoms rather than root causes. Oppression, from class or sex, is built into the state and Capitalism. It is the largest source of gender oppression today. While sexism and other kinds of oppression could certainly exist in a communist society, the elimination of them would be much easier without the two pillars of capitalism and the state to keep them in place. So I would also disagree with people here that claim that feminism is innately bourgeois. That claim itself carries this attitude that sexist oppression is less important than other types, and focusing on it is a waste of time.

Read:

Nigeria has more natural resources than France, Germany and the UK combined. Yet the country itself is a disaster, its citizens are underfed and it hasn't solved the fact that the country is speaking in multiple languages. It's not capable of running itself properly, much less able to take advantage of an advantageous situation.

Africa's civilizational issues are impossible to solve. Merely isolating them from the rest of the world would not accelerate natural development, it would naturally delay it more. The people are what makes a country prosper and thrive.

Much of Europe was destroyed during world war 2, yet they still are advanced nations. South Korea was devastated after the Korean war, but now it's a G20 nation.

Colonialism served as a tool for European nations to extend their reach and generate profits. But even if these countries would be kept sovereign the same would be done by the people who sold their own people in Africa. Africans would gladly trade their own people, the slaves, for European weaponry.

European nations completely failed in their colonialism. They didn't permanently integrate these countries to be part of an empire, they didn't force convert people to Christianity (like the Muslims did). It's quite easy to see why the Muslim faith is superior to the Christian one. One faith tries to teach to turn the other cheek while the other teaches violent expansion.

It is bourgeois because it's used to promote more capital on the labour market to exploit. It goes from with a double income you have more money, so you can afford a bigger house! to the following you need a double income to afford a typical house since now every family has a double income. It's unhealthy and there is a correlation between countries where feminism thrives and low birth rates.

Of course I'm not against woman being on the labour market if they wish, but the whole movement behind it seems fruitless in western society where equality of man and woman has already been established. Currently it seems more like woman get forced into slaving away at a job just like men instead of being home with children.

...

Certainly that kind of libfem attitude of seeking increased wages and job opportunities is bourgeois, I agree, but let's be careful not to conflate true feminism existing under Anarchism with libfem. The end goal of libfems is to remove sexist oppression and thus allow men and women to exist equally under Capitalist oppression. A true feminist, imo an Anarchist, recognizes that in seeking the end of sexist oppression you also need to seek the end of capitalist, statist, and all other forms of oppression. A libfem is bourgeois because they don't see capitalist oppression as oppression at all.

Because most people here are ex-Holla Forumsyps who've gone red.

How many rapes is it now, Wesley?

I agree with a lot of their goals but BLM is shit, in some areas they explicitly "ban" white people from their group meetings. They can get fucked for doing this, imagine the uproar if white socialists were like "sorry BLM, you can't come here, trust me though it's nothing personal :) "

Dumbest fucking shit ever.

They aren't even "anti-cop". They regular make liberal appeals to non-violence and demand reform for the current system. They show zero "revolutionary" potential. BLM members love selling out white people to the cops that are "unruly" and "violent". They've gotten anarchists arrested before.

If BLM is, then you can say that about every other vague activist group, which amounts to saying effectively nothing

I can't be sure, but this sounds a lot like the guy who was screaming about pornography a while back.

pot, meet kettle

Excuse me, retarded is an ableist slur. You have been banned from /r/Socialism.

it's funny tho how if you claim to "know" and "understand" racism and you're white, all these feminists and minorities come out of the woodwork to "educate" you on the matter bcuz you're a phukking white male

Muh "Whites can't experience racism".

Boy I ain't no damn godless antifeminist.
Git yer damn facts straight and yer damn shit together son.
We got a war to win against the fascists and we ain't gonna take any ground when our raks are full of TERFS, liberals, and yuppies.
We need stout ideological development son.
We ain't gettin' there with safe spaces.
Those are good and all for people who need em', but we need to make brave spaces on the front lines.
We need to be willing to address the compelling arguments that the tumblr crowd can't.

As usual, the worst /r/socialism tier shitposts get ~300 replies and the mods don't give a shit.

first pic is an improvement tbh. we need more sluts.

it is. very much so. you mostly find feminism in the upper echelons of white female muh privilege. its also jewish in origin and must be fought tooth and nail. the hipsters of today brought this in the sphere…and whaddya know, most came from a life of muh privilege where they didn't have to worry about going broke, or losing their house, or starving. the best way for this to happen is thru lumpenprole insurrection where the rug is pulled out from under them and they have fight for every crumb that falls on the floor. science will dictate the men will triumph over the women and turn the world into barbarism, which is what I desire. women may claim they're strong and independent but they depend on the capital of the state for having children out of wedlock, are physically weaker (generally speaking). They will be slaughtered if the state ceases to exist. you know where men go that can't pay child support? debtors prison. women live a life of unimagined muh privilege, especially the upper classes. no state = no capital muh privilege, and after this happens they'll be grateful for what they, how good they had it. /endrant.

We proped up South Korea after the war and helped rebuild Europe with pic related.

This is why we need to say "Profit is theft"

Feminists often just say feminism means gender equality and cant justify why its called FEMinism then. Its all about how men can never understand women but never about how women can never understand men, or how gender is a spook and should be abolished and doesnt even exist now. In short these naive moralists are all hypocrites and do nothing put play power games with words (not that others arent doing the same). An analysis based on patriarchy = characteristics of males preserves the anatomy as destiny discourse "fem"inism should be tearing down.

I mean I think lots have their heart in the right place but these dont hesistate to dehumanize those they disagree with, which just shows you its consumerist LARPing and nothing sincere (again, this is true of many communists too, even me). All this can be forgiven when people actually put their minds to resolving disputes instead of keeping them going to use as a cudgel.

I feel similarly about left and right. There is no way forward as the left and the fact that people wont give up this label (yes I know im on leftypol) shows they wear it like a designer handbag. All of this bickering presupposes capitalist stability when in reality nanobots will eat our brains soon if we dont put this shit aside.

I do agree that to be able to put it aside we need to work through the problems, and so I agree that leaving gender or race until after the rev is a non starter. Communism and idpol must grow toward each other, communists realizing idpol is key to the relations of production and therefore class, and idpolers realizing that they make prejudice worse by ignoring the humanity and oppression of those they right off as muh privileged. What most feminists think they have to offer men is utter shit and they need to be more self critical.

Ally culture must die, and accomplices must be on level ground in material amd status. Muh rich white male communists like me have to stop believing that our consumption habits are communist and actually negate our current relationship to property, and naive idpoler must likewise give up the fantasy that having it hard makes you right.

what the phuk did you say to me you fucking white male?

Because of the Marshal Plan you massive idiot. The same for Japan.

Accumulation is what makes a country prosper and thrive.

My dude you are straight up dumb as fuck.

seems your claims to support an internationalist movement or even something that could be construed as genuine (world) feminism are lies? how come most of the long run talking points are easily disconfirmed fabrications/exaggerations as well? how could self absorbed status climbers just go and lie like that??

KILL WHITEY.

Most people are for what "feminism" often proclaims to be fair, which is egalitarianism. Unfortunately, feminism often proclaims to be a whole lot more, much of which is blatantly misandrist and presents an active barrier to building the kind of solidarity needed to overthrow capitalism.

"Anti-racism", if one means shit like people apologizing for sins of their ancestors, is a big array of illogical spooks that causes proletariat infighting as well.

"social justice" itself is newspeak adapted from the old left to refer to an overt way of conditioning the mind to process reality in a certain way. it's poisonous to social relations, and whenever actual concrete solutions are proposed (justice), it's clearly egodystonic to their constructed identity as a cadre in the intransigent perpetual struggle, so they'll refuse to hear it. by design.

I'm not against feminism and anti-racism. I'm against the liberal bourgeois hipsters who focus on these issues while disregarding their inherent link to class as well as their tendency to be essentialists and treat their identity almost as a form of micronationalism.. Of course sexism and racism must be opposed, but they must be opposed in ways that don't divide the proletariat.

Indeed he is, but not for the reasons you imply. Under liberal democracy with one vote per citizen, women are 51% of the population; under first past the post systems in both the US and UK that gives them absolute voting power. We live in exactly the society women, as a group, desire.

You should both do the world a favor and kill yourselves.

The only thing we hate more than normies/hipsters/clinton is (8)Holla Forums, so you can try to shout down troglodytes by simply chanting "go back to Holla Forums".

Give it a try!

Where are the arguments?

I got your arguments right here *undicks zip*

Because "workers' struggle" already encompasses literally everyone.

What about people who don't work or can't work

Looks like a load of balls to me

People who don't work or can't work are also workers, they just have a different struggle.

It's just ye olde 4chan tribalism that's retarded. There's nothing particularly noble about massing together and drowning out people with dissenting opinions by calling them retarded faggots.

Of course reddit is cancer, with the cliques and the downvotes and the shadowbanning. The interface alone makes me puke. On the other hand, 4chan has persistently knee-capped itself on any attempt to use its anonymity to do anything worthwhile. Rule of the mob is shit.

Hmm, then again, if power in numbers was the only thing that mattered then this board would have been crushed years ago.

I suppose the best thing you can hope for is /lit/-style elitism. When a good number of users are well-read and know how to articulate their opinions without spamming "fag" then they are well underway to forming a nice fat core of bookish smartasses. Their smugness will form a wall against the godless hordes roaming the rest of Holla Forums. You too, can be a bookish smartass. And when you find yourself face to face with a Holla Forums tourist, instead of screaming and flailing your arms at him you can simply raise your nose and say "lol read Debord."

I am unashamed to opportunistically pursue my class’s interests to the detriment of any racial or gender monolith, and I earnestly hope that before all is said and done there will be no feminist culture, no gay culture, no so‐called black culture to speak of. And likewise no so‐called white and macho or male chauvinist culture to impede the unity of the human race.

You are not a socialist if you would not press a button that emancipated all people and at once homogenized them.

So no, I can not share a movement with the intersectional feminists and petit ethno‐nationalists who could never imagine forsaking their identity, as I promise to (and all of my much‐maligned muh privileges). Most would happily cast off my only struggle if it gave every woman in New York 75¢ more per hour or kick started a little liberal ‘African‐American’ ethno‐state.

The advancement of women, and sexual and racial minorities is a no‐brainer because they do intersect with the advancement of class. What is less obvious is the idea that nobody should criticize feminism (which is today a bourgeois movement despite the nominal connection to the beliefs of fin de siècle socialists) and most of all the so‐called ‘anti‐racist’ black nationalists who are more interested in reparations and trumped up zoos for their culture than socialism.

this

Go back. Focusing on idpol doesn't get us anywhere near revolution.

...

You misunderstand.
Racism and sexism are bad, but we can't stop it in the capitalist system, and trying to alienate workers is what leads to fascism in the first place.

It only makes sense to bash racist ideas when they appear, but the main focus should ever be the economic inequality and push towards socialism

anarcho-neets are allies of the proletariat