Libertarian autism

cooperativeeconomy.info/the-economy-of-rojava/
cooperativeeconomy.info/could-communal-economy-be-a-distinct-mode-of-production/

hey what's up jase

literally USSR

When America takes the gun out of their hands and shoot them in the back of the head with it, then will you tankies finally understand that the Kurds are not sellouts but rather just trying to survive, surrounded by enemies?

This.

/thread

While cooperating with the US may be bad, they're only doing so for their own survival. It's a genuine social revolution that tankies betray (yet again) for geopolitical LARPing

Furthermore its a civil fucking war. Its not a question of an imperialist power interfering against a sovereign government.

Meanwhile if you support a barrel bombing, sarin gassing child killer simlpy because they claim to be a socialist then fuck socialism, whats even the point of it?

Where on earth is closer to socialism than Rojava?

The Ba'ath Party isn't even socialist, they've been hardcore neolibs since the 1980's

rlp.hds.harvard.edu/economic-policies-ideologies-1#_ftn4

We must defend far-right theocracy in its struggle against libertarian socialist imperialism.

You can't be "closer" to socialism. You are either socialist or you are not. According to that, Sweden is the most socialistic country of Europe. Rojava aims to maintain private property, entrepreneurship, markets, production for use, etc. - it's libertarian social democracy, as in: Utopian socialism. They won't be sulf-sustaining or escape the contradictions of capitalism as they're reliant on the US militarily and economically, and probably will make money as a transit state if the US finally gets its pipeline. I can support Kurds in their right of self-determination, the same way I would support Persians in their struggle for self-determination. But that's about it, and the Rojava Kurds have become an imperialist tool by now.

As to answer you question, you still have two real existing socialist countries in the world, Cuba and the DPRK. You don't even have to go that far though. Kerala and Donezk are as "socialistic" as Rojava, but you never hear Anarkiddies talking about them, because Kerala is run by a Marxist-Leninist government and Donezk is financed by hurrdurr Putin (which means: Not approved by CIA/State Department/Shareblue) and Anarkiddies are far too afraid to lose their bonus points with liberals so they restrain from declaring solidarity with them.

granted

The CPI(M) is pretty fucking socdem

I critically support them. Do Assad-loving tankies support his neoliberal reforms which led to economic unrest, protests and eventually civil war?

There are plenty of reasonable criticisms to make against Rojava, but your post shows a complete failure to understand the "communal economy". It's also worth pointing out that private property is defined in the same way as personal property, and their system is closet to that of proudhonian mutualism. Definitely more then just social democracy. Btw, your assertion that they rely on the US for economic support is also completely false. They do not receive anything in terms of economic or diplomatic aid from the US
cooperativeeconomy.info/could-communal-economy-be-a-distinct-mode-of-production/

>>>/reddit/

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Ah yes, the tourguide who changes the economic base of an entire country.

No fucking shit, they're SocDem because they are part of the hypercapitalist nation of India. That was entirely my point. They are SocDem, just as Rojava.

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/poverty-philosophy/
As long as you have production for profit its capitalism, I'd even dare to say it's private property. There is literally no difference between a joint-stock company with a bunch of shareholders, and a joint-stock company where all the employees are shareholders as long as they are still operating within a capitalist market system. Actually, in many modern firms in the West, it is not unusual for an employee to own a bit of the company in stocks. Many big cooperations have over 50% of their stocks held by average Joes. Co-ops can function very well under capitalism.

No, the tour guide who is succinctly reiterating the party line. Any surface understanding of Juchism would lead you to the same conclusion about how "socialist" the country even aspires to be but the webm is usually used instead since tankies don't read

Ok, then the claim that they are "more" socialist than Rojava is weak as fuck when they're, according to you, about the same. And I don't really see that many people here specifically trashing Kerala either it's just not discussed because there isn't a major conflict in the region. If there was an Indian civil war I doubt people here wouldn't support CPI(M) over most other factions.

MLs are so fucking dense

I know you probably have this argument a few times a day so I hope you don't mind me asking, but how exactly is a movement with more arabs than non-arabs a kurdish nationalist movement?

really makes you think

Production for profit has existed as long as markets and currency has existed m8. What makes the difference is production for profit being the dominant mode of production, and the communal economy is not oriented towards generating capital. There is of course a risk that it could degenerate into capitalism, but it also has the potential to evolve beyond markets. I recommend that you actually read the article I linked before responding further, it's not a long read and it was written from a marxist perspective.

That's not an argument. I asked you whether a tour guide changes the economic base of a country, and the answer is that he clearly isn't. The government of China is Marxist-Leninist, that does make China socialist? See how anti-materialist that logic is?

It's also fucking funny that you claim I don't read while you clearly haven't read the slightest bit about Kimilsung-Kimjongilism or Juche, as you would know that Juche is the Korean expression of Marxism-Leninism tailored to the Korean conditions, and that communism, according to Juche, can't be achieved as long as imperialism exists. Do you argument fails entirely in both aspects. Pic related is Pyongyang.

Weird how you don't have to address that reddit "socialists" are all tankie retards. Maybe if you say "autism" again twice in a post then it'll really blow me away

Yeah that's what I said. I referenced the webm because it's his explanation of the party line, not because I'm claiming he "redefined" it or "changed" it or whatever.

Yes, Juchism claims to be this. But as your apt comparison to China illustrates, this doesn't actually mean anything on its own.

Those are Iraqi kurds you ignorant tankie. They're conservative and want a Kurdish state, unlike Syrian Kurds who are libertarian socialists and don't want a state. A quick Google would've told you Syrian kurds oppose Israel
reddit.com/r/kurdistan/comments/3mwsvm/what_is_the_ypg_and_pkks_stance_on_israel_are/

I meant that both Kerala and Donezk are as "socialistic" as Rojava which means: Not socialist at all. I mentioned Cuba and DPRK as examples of real existing socialism.

Good argument

Sounds awfully reformist to me. How are they supposed to overcome the laws of capital (as in: The law of value) as a determining factor in production when it is still based on individual profit in isolated entities of production? That's a Lassalian conception of socialism. There is either a collectivization movement or their isn't.

But you literally claim it does in your tourguide argument. You are arguing in circles. Quick sidenote, Rojava also doesn't claim to be communist, and barely understands itself as socialist.

I know that. Still, I like the image because the tense flirt between Bookchin/Rojava and Israel is always such a good trigger.

Correct.
Is the AES meme ever gonna die?

I apologize if I didn't articulate my point clearly enough. I argued that it's true independent of the tour guide's explanation.

By your logic Lenin was a reformist because of the NEP. You cannot transcend the law of value overnight in an area that is industrially underdeveloped. The superstructure they are developing is more capable of preventing the degeneration back into capitalism that the USSR experienced due to it's corrupted bureaucracy. To quote from the article:
>Additionally, the organisation of social life in communes in order to increase participation and dispel the bureaucracy-society contradiction is not necessarily mutually exclusive to the idea of socialist central planning. The approach that pejoratively uses the idea of centralisation in the economy makes the mistake of reading self-governance as the autonomy of communes, rather than the equal participation of communes in decision-making mechanisms. Conversely, every effort for mutualism is a practice of centralisation. In this sense, what contradicts the notion of the commune is not centralisation, but bureaucracy.
The article immediately goes on to quote from Lenin

It's not as long as you post dumb strawmen memes yourself.

Then we are on the same level. You are of course entitled to that belief, but my claim was that a tourguide isn't enough to substantiate it.

Is that article the work of an actual Rojava official or just wishful thinking? The NEP was from its very beginning conceived as a state capitalist transition phase, I haven't seen a single ideological hint for a similar conception within the Democratic Confederalism terminology, nor can I find stuff about that within Bookchins writings. The article fails once it mentions the bureaucracy boogeyman, that's just intellectually dishonest, so I'm not sure it it makes a more sufficient analysis of the Rojava situation. The collectivization in the USSR wasn't entirely imposed from above. It was a genuine proletarian movement against capital and I don't really see that happening in Rojava. Looks to me they just want to have their communes compete against each other.

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It's written by a Marxist Leninist in turkey.
twitter.com/olcayche?lang=en
What have you actually read by Bookchin? What makes you think he believes socialism will be spontaneous? It can't be said that he advocates a transitional phase like that of "state capitalism", but the communal economy as outlined is pretty much consistent with his libertarian municipalism. This is not to say that he believed markets should exist, but rather that municipalization of the economy will dissolve markets. It's ultimately up to the people to decide when and how that is done. What constitutes as not being a "genuine" movement? The system they've created is not all too different from the soviets (and I mean specifically the worker councils in this sense). The communal system is not being imposed on anyone. I've already posted this in a different thread but I'll repost it here

When you're surrounded by groups who all want you dead, you'll take whatever support you can get. The US will throw Rojava under the bus when ISIS are wiped out, since the US only likely see the Kurds as an effective fighting force, and they know it too. I've seen videos of Kurdish militia talking about this. They seem to be prepared to defend themselves wants the US feels they've outstayed their usefulness, and it wouldn't be the first time they've let the Kurds down.

In geopolitics, sometimes groups with no shared values will work together for the sake of their own interests. It's cynical, but it's just how the world works. No one's going to get anywhere if all anyone can keep banging on about is 'muh ideological purity'. We have the possibility of seeing a legitimate and functioning democractic libertarian socialist state become permanently established in one of the unstable regions in modern history.

low level bait thread

Why do people constantly yell about who's better between rojava and Syria?

Aren't they working together now?

Fresh OC just for all the tankies

cooperativeeconomy.info/21-cooperatives-form-in-heseke-including-three-especially-for-women/
It appears rojava has collectivized land, they were also under UN investigation for war crimes because they chased out a bunch of porky land owners.
Their doing similar shit as the Soviet Union, in a transitionary phase, and Tankies cry "not real socialism. Interesting isn't it? The hypocrisy. Shows you what tankie really value over everything else, their ideology and authoritarianism. If rojava keeps heading in a positive direction it has a legitimate shot at creating a socialist society, yet tankie said would likely rather see it eat shit because the libertarian nature of the movement is a threat to them, they don't give a fuck about socialism in the greater sense of it

Should have mentioned that co-ops in North Syria are owned by the municipal councils as to not cause confusion with the more capitalist model of co-ops.

More on this:

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I support them because of: the fact they're the largest LibSoc Revolution since Spain, their fight against Islamo-Fascism, their struggle for an oppressed ethnic group. To clarify support them because they are a house upon a hill in a region that has a culture based on opression.

said every "socialist" ever

they're not even hiding Rojava is right at the top of the target list after isis

communist or no, they're still a massive improvement for the people living in areas they've liberated. isn't that _good_? does that not matter?

Who cares, they will cease to exist in the next few years, just like in the past anarkid daydreams

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Ok but you need to tell me ONE good reason to support capitalist russian imperialism.

Yeah but they share a common enemy with America so they're obviously worse than ISIS!

Yeah, anarkiddies need to grow up and larp as vanguard leadership instead of fighting ISIS.

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But seriously, the SDF is out here establishing Democratic Confederalism and fighting ISIS while kids on a computer who read a book once are calling them sellouts because muh burger airstrikes. Makes me sad.

Just because it's not real socialism doesn't mean we need to distance ourselves from them. Any attempt at socialism or something adjacent to socialism has to compromise heavily because global capitalism exists. Until that system collapses there's no hope of real socialism but that doesn't mean that people who believe in socialism can't try to make capitalism less awful in the meantime.

In all seriousness though, communist imperialism would actually be a good thing.

"None of that matters. They are now sellouts because they missed the deadline for when to stop accepting aid from America."

It's not a pretty picture that they still play ball with America. You know what else isn't? Their entire fucking country. It's in ruins. And they fully expect Erdogan to invade and add a little genocide on top of it. So they decided to make a faustian pact with the schizophrenic schemers in the pentagon, to keep Erdogan at bay. This will give them time to rebuild their towns.

"They don't deserve to rebuild when they just let America build a base there! This is messing up the Hezbollah/Syria/Iran axis that stands up against western imperialism!"

Except it isn't, you fucking 4D chess-playing dork. ISIS is dead, and the CIA/Saudis don't have any other patsies willing to attack Assad. Meaning, Assad is in the clear. Russia isn't going anywhere. Even my old man's neoliberal newspaper is saying Assad is the undisputed winner. Meanwhile, Hezbollah has grown substantially.

"But they're nationalists! Zionist pawns! Imperialists!"
Stop watching that retard Unruhe's channel.

Anyone who still thinks the Kurds are somehow a threat to le lion of damascus is a fucking moron.

anarkiddies in charge of not being retarded.

I think you have the metaphor mixed up there, If this is WW2, the US is playing the role of the Nazis and rojava is like finland, allying with them to gain independence from russia in the continuation war.

How do anarkids defend this?

CNT was dumb for joining the government and it resulted in not only their destruction but Franco's victory. Church had it coming though

jewishtidbits.com/netanyahu-pkk-terror-group-israel-supports-kurdish-independence/

Netanyahu also called PKK terrorists. He was talking abou KRG independence.

Good memes.

Generally when one call Rojava imperialist they mean that they are at the behest of US imperialism as opposed to perusing their own imperialist ambitions

Most of those quotes are true though.

ahahahah

Do the Gulf States even have much of a bone to pick with them?

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thread/

Holla Forums tier. You guys defend Stalin even though he coordinated with literal Nazis to invade another country, but god forbid the DFSNS take weapons from burgerland.

funny how i didnt defend stalin once in that one word post

kek

You're using a Hoxhaism flag. Aren't you an anti-revisionist? Don't you think Stalin was a good guy? Don't act like was strawmanning you or something for being a Stalinist, when your fucking flag shows you are a Stalinist.

Not him but Stalinist=/=Stalin did nothing wrong

I have literally never seen a Stalinist criticize Stalin (inb4 "he didn't kill enough le kulaks xD"). They always say that he wasn't perfect/did some mistakes, yet they NEVER specify what they are talking about.

It's not bad if you get support from those who do not share same ideology but do not stay in the way in achieving it. Soft machiavellism hurts only those who needs to be hurt, from machiavellism user's perspective of course.

t. addled larper

I love this image because it betrays the true nature of tankies. No matter what, if a tankie talk long enough they WILL mention the Soviet Union or Russia

Notice how the tankie who made that image felt the need to point out that it will hurt the Russian economy. That’s because tankies have to act as if the Soviet Union still exists because the fact that it doesn’t undermines their deeply held belief that social democracy upheld by a militaristic state is the end point of humanity.

See also their refusal to identify Russia as a modern European state capable of imperialism

Can you not read or do you just know nothing about the region? The DFNS is in Syria and has terrible relations with the government running Erbil.

the communist party of donesk has 3 seats in the parliament (out of 100), if they had more I'd support donesk
as for karela I think they're pretty cool hope it spreads to the rest of India