Why aren't you an ML?

Because the USSR collapsed, largely discrediting the Stalinist ideology. A better question is why anyone would be so slavishly loyal to a state and party that's been dead for over half a century. Is this the fallout from when your whole raison d'être suddenly vanishes?

yeah, spending all year spamming your bookmeme OC here will do it

Nobody "wants" those things, they're just very obviously necessary for a while.

I didn't say that, co-ops aren't bad but their limitations need to be recognised.

The USSR didn't collapse. It was dismantled by American backed bureaucrats.

1991 was 50 years ago.

Please user, you had 70 years to restore soviet power and it didn't happen

Not sure if you're being sarcastic.

Meant a quarter of a century, whoops.

Because I actually oppose capitalism.

1. Because it's not 100 years ago in agrarian Europe
2. Because I actually want to abolish capitalism

What arbitrary amount of time have you decided is acceptable for the state to exist after a revolution?

1 second.

you are stupid

zero

So do you believe God is going to just flick a switch in everyone's mind the instant the revolution succeeds(however you define that point) and they will become instant communists and behave accordingly or what?

Reminder that Lenin lived, lives, and will live forever until the end of time itself comrade Lenin will always be with us.

Serious questions to leninists ITT, do you actually believe you can just recreate the conditions that led to the Russian revolution in whatever country you are in now? Like do you really think that's feasible or do you just enjoy reading about the Soviet Union

This.

Do you think capitalism has stayed alive thus far because people are ideologically invested in it? Only liberals believe this. Capitalism has stayed alive because you have to participate in it. Similarly, when the proletariat has organized itself on basis of councils and militias, and seized the MoP what is some faggot ancap gonna do? Start a business and hire people? It'd literally be impossible to do.

why do you think the ussr was socdem? that makes no sense.

My guess is that approximately 0 leninists believe that. The russian revolution, the chinese revolution, the cuban revolution, etc, where all "leninist" in some sense, but they weren't exactly the same as each other and the conditions that lead to each revolution were different.

Here's a relevant quote by Mao Tse-tung:
>The theory of Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin is universally applicable. We should regard it not as a dogma, but as a guide to action. Studying it is not merely a matter of learning terms and phrases but of learning Marxism-Leninism as the science of revolution. It is not just a matter of understanding the general laws derived by Marx, Engels, Lenin and Stalin from their extensive study of real life and revolutionary experience, but of studying their standpoint and method in examining and solving problems.

typically the argument that MLs use to define it as socialism is that it had welfare and state ownership over the MoP

an invading army could completely wipe disorganized militia out,look at your beloved militias getting destroyed in spain

ML is product of it's time. It is good for teaching illiterate population how to become engineers and cosmonauts. However moving into the 21st century the future is E-Democracy, I do respect legacy of ML because I am realistic and Anarchy could never work in 20 century Russia,

The workers control the state though and thus the MoP

i am

No

How would it be impossible to do so? It would be quite easy to be a bandit when the only thing opposing you are muh militias. Do you think the capitalists are just going to be like "welp I've lost all of my businesses and this group of fellow ex-capitalists backed with weapons from the USA are asking for my cooperation, better just ignore them due to 'muh militas'"?

You are right, next time we shoot MLs instead of trying to collaborate with them.

A state is by definition a product of class society. And through what means do the workers control the state? The soviets?

How is it socdem do you figure? The MOP are municipalised; private property is abolished.

Anyone with a brain knows that the fascists where going to win anyways
Yes it was a working class run organization that repressed the bourgeoisie, that is until revisionist got a hold of it

Because it doesn't work.

Just like MLs themselves amirite?

ALL OF YOU ARE SOCDEMS, NONE OF YOU ARE FREE FROM CAPITAL

ML'S ARE THE LEFT WING OF CAPITAL

Right. Trotskyism, Leftcommunism and Anarcho-Commuism has worked so well, why do we need Marxism-Leninism? Seriously, if you guys would actually bring something to the table that is a feasible alternative to Marxism-Leninism, this statement may carry value, but you don't.

Right. Trotskyism, Leftcommunism and Anarcho-Commuism has worked so well, why do we need Marxism-Leninism? Seriously, if you guys would actually bring something to the table that is a feasible alternative to Marxism-Leninism, this statement may carry value, but you don't.

I don't think the average North Korean would appreciate that battlestation aside from the electricity.

How so?

How so?

Wtf

Because I do not want to devote my life to a children's TV show.

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If Communalist is social democracy then labor vouchers are ancapistan.

wrong, its because we understand dialectics
youtube.com/watch?v=EQXYsEnWiBQ

What's an ML?

In the most charitable estimate, ML's are schizophrenics. Consider that Marx clawed his way to the top of the totem pole to finally vanquish the final boss Bakunin, to convince socialists the world over to violently impose hyper-authoritarian capitalism in overdrive via the state. This is the sum of their achievement before the world movement was dismantled and Capitalism claimed total victory. They are clearly the most demented and misanthropic of all Capitalists, so complete is their pervesion they worship those who implemented it under the mocking sigil of its antithesis, claiming its "necessity" and "inevitability". So contagious is their illness, they even got the anarchists to repeatedly collaborate with them through some kind of battered wife syndrome, with anarchist thought now thoroughly polluted with Marxian concepts and disagreeing mainly on tactics. See also Bookchin's expansion and amendation of Marx, rather than total repudiation as the greatest enemy of socialism, anarchism and perhaps even mankind itself that ever lived.

good ass post tbh

Because I don't live in Russia in 1917

I'm not even an ML but anyone who smugly talks about how "it's not gonna be like the Russian Revolution" is a fucking faggot. Obviously the conditions aren't going to be the same but the general patterns by which history moves will be similar. We don't study the Russian Revolution as a blueprint, we study it to understand the process of revolution so we can make correct decisions as future events unfold.

Marxist-Leninist, an authoritarian leftist who wants to collectivize industry into state capitalism, then "set the conditions" so that "the state will wither away." Problem is, the ruling party, they tend to have trouble giving that power away to the workers…

THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION WAS SOCIALISM
MADE MY MARXIST-LENINIST GANG

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1936/12/05.htm

Is this a joke? Am I supposed to laugh? You are leaving me speechless with no idea how to react. Like dog saying meow, this just makes no sense with the world that I am used to.

During Lenin's tenure, a massive chunk of the army rebelled and formed the Whites and Russia was invaded by a coalition of 21 nations. You can't blame Lenin for implementing emergency powers. The problem was that Lenin died and Stalin took his place and "emergency powers" became official policy.

Because I've read Marx.

I actually want communism.

Something-something revisionist Trotskyists.

Because I have a somewhat decent understanding of dialectics.

T.anarkiddie

Because I like freedom and who cares if you just switch out one economic model for another if it's not libertine?

Huh? I'm a communist, I just think that Marxist-Leninist dialectical materialism is a shitty misreading of Marx that leads to deep theoretical deficiencies. Regardless, the USSR wasn't socialist. If they had given power back to the Soviets, dissolved their bureaucracy, didn't have generalized commodity production, and didn't have shit theory then they would have been.

Because I learn from history.

Qt

wew lad

they didn't.

Why can't ML be adopted to modern circumstances?

Because there are no feudalist nations any more.

Because M is enough and L is revisionist bullcrap.

Well ML was just an adoption of marxism to russian circumstances

whats wrong with L? State and Revolution was based

I think you're mistaking ML with Leninism my man

ML is Leninism, The only difference is it was named so by MUH EVOL STALIN so now its 'bad'. Puh leese. Tell me, what huge theoretical modification did Stalin make to Lenins work that distorted it so much, Stalin basically only wrote 2 theory books, the foundations of leninism and economic problems in the USSR. All the main theory of ML is lenin, lenin, lenin

I didn't even say ML was bad calm your tits

Marx clearly defined tze requirement for a revolution to work and Lenin threw everything in shambles, because Russia didn't fulfil one of them.
Add to it, that in countries where the requirements are almost fulfilled and a revision is therefore not needed a majority of communists are Leninists or worse and you have one of the biggest reasons why the state of communism is fucked up right now.

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The workers own the MOP in capitalism as well. Since they decide democratically what to produce through their consumption choices, they work in the "corporation of the proletariat"

TBQH It could work in African country, Brazil or Indian. It would remove illiteracy, industrialize etc.
But definitely not where I live, Russia.

I also support M-L in Venezuela

Because I'm not 12 anymore and I don't get my politics from Cold War videogames and soviet music videos.

Now there's a fucking thought right there…

their education comes from memes and propaganda rather than studying

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So ML claim the works where in charge and non-MLs claim it was bureaucrats and party elites. Where can I research the validity of these claims?

Yes they did. Even Stalin acknowledged it but he just called it "socialist" commodity production which is fucking bullshit.

Because I don't want to starve to death xD