Why do all my 'political' working class friends in their mid-twenties absolutely love Lauren Southern, Ben Shapiro, Molyneux, right-libertarianism, evangelical christianity, Jordan Peterson etc etc., and, absolutely refuse to read even a single book?
As a member of the pettybourgeoisie looking in: proletariat, please get your fucking class in together, you're an absolute disaster.
Probably because they're stupid.
Where do you live OP, may explain as to why your "friends" are stoopid
ontario canada
I'd give you advice for dealing with this but you probably won't heed it. Good luck drowning in your pretension.
What was in the least bit pretentious? Are you one of those people who think reading books is pretentious?
It's an education thing. Those of us who come from a working class background and were encouraged to do our best to get out of it went to university, read books and can see through bullshit.
Those who were encouraged to embrace their culture and follow the paths of their parents are hostile to anything different and haven't learnt the critical thinking skills required to spot bullshit.
This is likely why Bernie was so big on free education tbqh
'spot bullshit' I like this. I think maybe you've got it. A surprising amount of them also fall for conspiracy theories, which confused me, b/c conspiracy theories aren't usually pushed too hard by any specific culture or class interests, and are just…dumb.
does this arguement not subtley imply leftism is the intellectuals ideology and all those who dont argue are just uneducated. Dont be so quick to forget that the driving force of the leftist movements in the past were labourers, not academics or office workers. Its because OP lives in canada, and lets be honest the "west" doesnt have working class revolutions (at least not to the scale the east has or what we want)
But yeah, its probs best if your trying to win people over not to call them uneducated
The millennial generation has witnessed first hand how unfair the system is, hence why we're probably the most polarised generation… Ever? People are more politically conscious in general.
People look to something to explain things - older generations may have been in the cold warrior mindset, or even just looked to god.
Now people need something to explain the system, such as Marx's critique of capitalism.
Or if you're an idiot, conspiracy theories about Jews and lizard people.
I reminded of the old pastafarian critique of religious fundamentalism - they use the analogy that as old school pirates have reduce, global warming has increased - therefore, less pirates has caused global warming.
The problem is that there is another factor missing - industrialism. As navies have had better, and more exclusive access, to modern nautical warfare, old school pirates were decimated. Likewise, this new technology has contributed to global warming.
So in turn, you get people who point to things like Jews, gay people, civil rights, etc and miss the forest for the trees. They don't comprehend what capitalism is or how it works so they look at symptoms or smaller scale problems and think that they are the problem.
I don't disagree at all, my point is about the internet age where those that engage in political discussions are very easily swayed by propaganda because the elite class has gotten so good at it.
And I in no way encourage using a lack of education as an insult when trying to encourage people to understand our perspective. I'm just venting on Holla Forums.
I'm not sure what I'd call someone who would rather listen to Lauren Southern, a university drop-out, who makes wild and contradictory statements, bounces around different idpol groups and memes IRL discuss mass migration and globalization than actual experts in the field who've spent their entire lives studying the issues.
What I'd really like to know is what makes someone go to the answer: Jews, lizard people (literally), 1000 year old satanic cults assassinating Prince to keep the working class down, and not go to the answer of even the most milquetoast socialist or even liberal or Keynesian social theories? It seems like such a hard split that happens to a lot of people around the ages 16-22.
Because welfare is soul sucking, earning a living is invigorating and gives a sense of advancement and purpose. People know whats right and wrong, reading marx isn't going to make that false.
I see what your getting at, can factor in fake news and astro-turfing into the new wave of bourgie propaganda too and then wee talkin' my language
Call em wrong, but dont call em stupid cus educated people can be just as gullible. Most politicians are over-educated and still shill neo-liberal and conservative shithousary
Heres a good experiment, i bet you 30 bucks youd be more likely to get someone dumb on the side of the left rather than the right (mostly because potential for pathos is i n f i n i t e )
i think its the emotional aspect of ideology, ts more enticing to be part of a resistance to a global conspiracy and up against insurmountable odds rather than the reality of the enemy being everything theyve been raised to believe about how life works and banks (what? but they give us money) politicians (what? but theyre in charge) and most of all capitalism (what? but its what we have)
but in some ways, working a repetitive job and becoming like a machine oneself, does this not too completely alienate the subject from their own ability to realize their class interests?
I think that could be true when they are still apolitical. Once a poor person who literally doesn't pay taxes here in canada starts arguing that 'taxes are theft to import immigrants' there is no chance for them.
it really activates my almonds when one of my workin gclass friends will rail against George Soros and seem to know his every action, but has no realization that their manager is piling more work on them 5 days a week in a contract situation so they effectively make less than minimum wage.
So far i've got 'can't spot bullshit', and 'emotionally more comforting to believe in a grand conspiracy of outsiders they are against' I think these are both plausible and possibly how ideology probably works.
You're probably living in a place where right-wing wins elections.
It's not because OP's friends are dumb that they adhere to dumb views you bunch of cretins, it's because people articulating those dumb views are insanely well-organized and good at communicating those ideas and promoting their own.
Compare this with the Left's typical teenage nihilism towards any form of political participation and the whole I'm-too-smart-for-this attitude towards any effort to reach the masses and it's clear why those disappointed with the status quo should gravitate towards that crap.
alright, looks like we have a third thesis
Forreal tho, space lizards and international jewery is actually much cooler than our enemies, greedy dickbags
Studying? Or being indoctrinated? There's no diversity of ideology allowed in modern universities, just different flavors of Marxism.
aha! looks like we've found one of the conspiracy theorists this thread is about and trying to understand!
Unless you own your own business, you're working class too bud. The thing is the character of the working class has changed considerably since Marx's time, most working class folks aren't grease covered overall wearing factory workers holding a sledgehammer over their shoulder. The most common professions currently are nurses and medical staff and professional drivers (transportation industry). Likewise technology is big too.
This has its pros and cons, often time people being paid well settle on liberalism. Nurse have revolutionary potential but you need to break through their unions
I can tell you from personal experience that various schools of thought are explored. I read fucking Mises in a class taught by a hardcore commie prof.
t. Poli sci
...
-not taught 'to spot bullshit'
-comforted/enticed by ideas of whacky outsiders controlling the world
-Not b/c of their own stupidity, b/c the people spouting (let's just call it) right/conspiracy theories are just too good at it, while the left can't articulate their program.
Three pretty good theories going.
I want the fuck out of whatever hellhole dystopia you consider moderate.
y-….y'know they teach economics at university right?…. like, free market capitalism? invisible hand type stuff?
love it when people who dont go to univeristy shill the "Colleges are communist breeding grounds" meme
so the person who thinks Universities are a
Marxist den:
1) cannot spot the bullshit: they don't have the critical thinking skills to realize the people saying this are bullshitting them. 2) Comforted by the Idea: it's kind of fun to have a simple world-view that the universities are just filled with these terrible enemies and everything is awful 3) the people who are telling them the university is all Marxist are just really really good at convincing them of this, and there is no one on the other side to inform them of the reality.
(1 and 3 are kind of similar, 3 should probably be a sub-argument of 1)
I legitimately want to know how universities are Marxist. Substantiate your claims.
Maybe if the left did ANY effort to reach out the people they need for reform/revolution, it wouldn't be like that. Cause proles may be dumb and easily swayed, but they can feel your contempt.
The thing about the new right is that they are pretty good at marketing. They make an effort to pose as normal everyday people ,and being on the side of the underdog. When they do tough love , they do it in a paternal way like Peterson, so people can accept it.
On the other end, the left is basically in shrill mode 24/7, and ask for absolute obedience in everything you do. And they are also elitist as fuck, and it really show.
Tl;dr: To get the people, be like the people, not an enlighted petty know-it-all.
Because with the destruction of trade unions, there's very little to educate the working class to vote in their own self interest, the large control of information distribution these internet giants hold whilst also being a vague political resistance, basically cucks a vast majority.
Now thats what i call podracing using a sociological framework to analyse a socio-political statement!
This is what Gramsci meant by organic intellectual, i think. So the rise in the alt-right could be due to the fact that capital has all the organic intellectuals (or at least some kind of mimetic version of org intellectuals) and the left has literally zero.
now we just need to interview 10 of them and we can publish lmao. wtf does podracing filter from?
nothing i literally typed pod racing because the prequels are dope
Just because OP autistically screeches at his friends to read Engels or Marx doesn't mean people don't like to read books and I'm 90% certain that's what's happening here
The closest thing you've got there that might be considered right wing is evangelical Christianity, and its not inherently right-wing. A lot of beliefs espoused in the bible just happen to align with right-wing beliefs.
Either way if you consider this "hell", you've got a long ways to go.
There is no way you are a leftist if your ability to analyze is that shit.
imagine not rating the intense and expansive political thriller about one mans attempt to subvert and entire galaxys democracy through the slickest of entryism that is Episode 1,2 and 3
I bet you didnt like it because muh jumpy super men didnt swish the pool noodles enough :'(
Most of our generation realizes that *something* is wrong with society, but blaming "crony capitalism" or the Jews is still more commonplace and socially acceptable than blaming capitalism itself - especially in white circles. If you want to see more leftist Millennials, start making YouTube videos debunking liberal ideology or something.
This. Stop attacking fascists and start attacking liberals. That seems to be the easiest way to get views.
It was just shit my dude for reasons too numerous to count.
Probably because they have jobs
its basically house of cards in space
Not really, no.
take that back
Blue colour workers have to deal the most with the fuckups of the government and an elite working together. Ever since WW2 western elites in industry haven't been competing with each other, instead opting to cooperate of course this comes at the expense of the worker.
Education doesn't teach you to 'see through bullshit'. It's something you either can or can not. Majority of people stick to whatever they believe is right conforming their social circles.
Bernie preached for education because many people in the USA see education as an entry ticket to middle / upper middle class lifestyle. Not because they care about having 'critical thinking skills'.
If more people get into higher education it eventually will just be an entry ticket into the workplace which is already the case in many European countries like Germany or Netherlands for example. You need degrees just to enter starting positions that 10 years ago didn't even need degrees, but since everyone is getting into education even the simplest jobs require degrees. Getting everyone a degree doesn't result in less poverty or better chances for the working class, it merely results in a wealth distribution which avoids the core of the problem: the elite.
You don't need to conspire about anything when it's out in the open. Research journalism over the last decade has resulted in plenty books critical of the EU, revealing its corruption and favourability towards elite coorporations which nobody can compete with. Yet if I post somewhere like reddit for example I get tons of downvotes and hate for saying that the EU is a corrupt entity to promote the interest of cooperations an agenda which is against the worker. To which I usually respond with a list of books and articles that have enough evidence.
Anything that doesn't support worker's ownership of the means of production and which doesn't believe in class struggle is right-wing
those aren't actual right libertarians, they just pretend to be.
No they aren't very good at promoting those ideas. There are just a lot of dumb people spouting off dumb shit.
y'know, I'm pretty sure Marxism thinks the "invisible hand" (that is the forces inherent to a system causing outcomes regardless of no specific individual shooting for them) is a real thing, it's just that Marxists don't think what the invisible hand tends to is correct
no, we want popular ownership of the means of production: the children, the disabled, the retired, and those yet to be born all ought to have a stake in what is done. the proletariat have more revolutionary potential than other classes as a result of the way capitalism functions but they're nothing particularly special on their own; we want communism for its own sake, not to secure "victory" for some particular group of people.
also, if a robot makes someone's labor redundant, that doesn't make that person's opinion lose its value, as it would if we took "worker ownership" seriously.
Honestly, before Holla Forums I started reading and watching men's rights activists, milo, ben shapiro, and other alt righters, and a lot of their criticism of liberal social justice warriors was spot on. They also spouted a lot of bullshit, which turned me off and made me look for other sources of "truth" so to speak.
Specifically, I wanted to know whether there was any other leftist who thought the "sjw" thing was bullshit as well. Fast forward, and I'm shitposting on Holla Forums.
I was already familiar with leftist thoughts, especially Noam Chomsky. If it weren't for that, I might've kept listening to alt rightists until their bullshit was internalized and I became an alt right tard.
So to answer your question, I think that liberals turned their back on proles, became oppressive in different ways (thought police, PC culture) and pushed social changes too quickly. Proles looked for people that spoke against that oppression and also spoke against the cultural changes that didn't resonate with them.
This raises another point, I don't really care if a prole hates some idpol shit, or rolls their eyes and what some liberal says, but it seems to me, for instance, Ben Shapiro will give you the liberal takedown, but he'll also sneak in something about poor people are poor b/c they're bad with money in the next breath.
Because censorship is viewed with disgust by working class and the progressives try to censor them. That, and a few of those people are very good at articulating their beliefs in a non-technical way.
Can I be blunt? It seems a working class subject is more disgusted and upsetwhen a stranger says they shouldn't use the word 'faggot', then when they have to live an entire life working a boring job for a bad wage. wtf
Yeah, when you're poor censorship is taking away a "right" from you, which is one of the few things you actually feel like you have. Rights are prized more highly by the poor than the rich. Its just a trend I've noticed.
...
Conclusion: poor people are dumb and a vanguard party is necessary. Leninists were right all along.
You just proved xis point.
/thread
Yeah but the thing is a lot of those silly conspiracy theories turned out to be true. People used to believe the govt told the truth, Iraq changed that forever.
bullshit, wageslaves are depressed robots while neets (when they aren't spooped by liberal propaganda) are generally happy in their basements and don't want to end it
university isn't supposed to have ideology in the first place
because marxism is science, there's physicist marxism, mathematical marxism (unless it's Atlas Shrugged) and there's biological marxism (unless it's social darwinism)