Holla Forums will defend this retarded economic policies

I don't it's a retarded policy. If you want to help the poor buy food, give them money for food and make sure the food isnt overvalued . I'd you cap food prices they will sell the food abroad.

I agree OP. Maduro should give the bourgeoisie the boot once and for all and nationalize all industry.

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Venezuela's problems are caused by terrible monetary policy and retarded price controls, policies which are neither capitalist nor socialist and are employed by other capitalist countries with far better execution.

This whole discussion is pointless of course since Venezuela is calitalist.

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Do you just post le funny memes without actually knowing or caring if their content is correct?

Yeah, it's a fucking capitalist country.
I'd respond to your webm with the more accurate version that actually understands the definition of both socialism and capitalism if I had it.

The definition he holds up is that "Socialism" is a transition period between capitalism and marxism. The fact that a government has been elected to sieze the means of production but has not yet fully completed its goal is moot. It is socialism as the full siezure of the means of production is the goal. Socialism is the transition period, communism is the after period.

Yep, it's retarded, or are you implying that if I were to nationalize the entire economy but claim it was to create an eventual ancap society that it would make me a capitalist?

You're claiming it's a dictatorship of the proletariat?

Generally, the first action of a DotP to to expropriate bourgeois property, because without doing this the bourgeois class retains its dominance. Venezuela has not done this. How can it be a DotP when it's still very much dominated by its bourgeoisie through state-backed property rights? Wouldn't it still be a Dictatorship of the Bourgeoisie with a somewhat rogue class-collaborationist government?

We're reaching levels of illiteracy that shouldn't be possible here

I don't give a shit if Venezuela is "socialist" or not, it's a poorly run country with incompetent leaders. I don't understand this meme where if a single "socialist" country fails then all of a sudden we have to through Marx out the window. None of these fuckwits say capitalism failed when a capitalist country fails, I'm sick of the double standard. There is nothing in socialism that means a country (especially a country that has to play capitalist internationally in a world hostile to socialism) is immune to failure.

A lot of the reason Venezuela is the way it is, is because the whole country were fucking idiots and based the economy on shitty oil. When oil prices were up, the economy was doing good. When OPEC and the US got in a trade war and oil prices plummeted, Venezuela's shit grade oil couldn't compete. The lesson is unless you have vast amounts of high grade material that can be extracted, don't gamble everything in a volatile market.

youtube.com/watch?v=maHgtLp21Iw

Also price controls. Price controls were a huge part of the economic collapse and in general are never a good idea.

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Less poorly run, more sabotage by literal Kulaks and the IMF

I can't believe you are going to flee on the Venezuela issue you coward fucks

Venezuela is in an economical crisis but is not a failure and yes it is run by a socialist goverment in a capitalist country. But that's not an excuse. The revolution goes on.

A poltard never asks himself why is it that it's allways rich venezuelan kids whining about the goverment. That's why you keep loosing in Venezuela you retards, because you are the 1% and it's children. Time is running for you pieces of shit, and you lost every hope of overthrowing the goverment 1 month ago.

Keep trolling, that's all you have left

If the leftists in Venezuela continue to support Marduro they are doomed. Something tells me you are a tanky who thinks Stalin was anti-sectarian.

Agreed with everything you said but also what you said is why it isn't socialist & can't be. Thank you for the great post
Socialism hardly exist under any State. If it's a Minarchy it might host it (Rojava, Catalonia, etc), but otherwise we will keep seeing Banana Republic after Banana Republic.Tankies will never realize this through, not as Tankies at least.

They cannot support the opposition either. Any angle you look at it they're fucked by a major power.
They should just create a faction of their own & pull off a Catalonia/Rojava there. Shoot any antagonist to their true socialist union.

The leftists in Venezuela continue to support Maduro, as it does most of the country.

Thank you enlightened teen for explaining to the world what venezuelans should do with their own country.

I'm asuming you're the nazi retard without banner because of that pic, if you weren't completely retarded you woudn't be buying all that propaganda, sorry poltards, no famine here, keep whining with your MSM fake news.

Meanwhile, in a country with a real revolution instead of smartasses. Fascists have been defeated again.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WuM8IlzUIL4

lol

There is a difference between supporting like a blind sheep & supporting because one does not like the opposing result.
They don't have to be believers to the causes you believe in. In fact everything you believe in is trash that I won't follow & I say this confident af because you got no power.
When asked by a power where my alliance is I will always lie. But in reality I'm always looking forward for the death of both powers.

But the Eastern Bloc countries, who all had shit-tier economies, did fulfill your criteria and every criterium of Marx & his little Communist Manifesto and most dictionary definitions of the words "communism" or "socialism".

Yet marxists still try to get around this by playing word games like by saying "communism" is just that retarded endstage where everyone is an equal little fairy in a Red 'utopia'. When you point out 'communism' is not just the endstage, but the name given to any state that has that as the dominant ideology too, then they get back into some circle of "not real communism" or alternatively try to again draw a line between "(state) socialism" and "communism", somehow pretending the two are disconnected and completely different hahahaha.

It's all just about trying to squirm around the issue and be a slimy little worm with you lot, playing all these mental gymnastics just to convince yourself your little garbage worldview is more than just failed economic pseudo-intellectual gabble, to give yourself a purpose in life as you're holding on to what rubbish you put so much effort reading into.

The eastern bloc was arguably socialist, but we're talking about Venezuela, which is definitively not. It's also arguable that the eastern bloc wasn't actually socialist because the working class as a whole did not control the government or economy, a small cadre of elites did. This isn't some grand mystery or mental gymnastics, socialism has a specific definition and specific criteria which few societies have actually met. It's a simple as that. A socialist society has to be democratically run by the workers, operate a utility based (production for use) economy, and have social ownership of the means of production. If it doesn't have these things it isn't socialist.

You realize that that was an agitational pamphlet Marx wrote in his 20s correct? The steps outlined at the end are immediate next policy steps advocated by his party, not the definition of communism shithead.

Even as far as the eastern bloc goes, it was clearly better than what they have now since so many people who live there want it back.

More like, the man was born in Scotland, has citizenship, has 90% Scottish ancestry, but never plays the bag and pipes so he's not reaaaallly Scottish according to autists on the internet.

The manifesto succinctly captures the core of the communist doctrine. All you red rats have to bring in against that is the usual semantic distraction about the meaning of the word 'communism'. Naturally so, because every state where communism has been tried has failed utterly and with good reason; as it's an ideology that rebels against the unequal nature of man.

Marxtists can't owe up their own regimes because they were all massive failures.

Yeah like every state that had your communist filth as a ruling ideology ever. Every state which followed the "vanguard party" ideal stage of Marx perfectly.

Oh suuure, all those massive breadlines and half a kilo of meat per month, really good stuff in the Eastern Bloc during that period m8. Surely not just a minority of young morons who never experienced the era want it back, nor old imbeciles who lived far away from the cities on lands where they could grow food for themselves.

I can't believe Venezuela is the hill you want to die on. What good is having another isolated "socialist" state gonna do?

Anarkiddie much?

Read Marx - this is not about "working class" controlling anything, but there being no centralized economy in the first place (except for DDR, of course) - i.e. nobody controlled anything. Anarchy of production, nothing to do with democracy.

Democracy is hard to define. What you need to be looking at first and foremost is economy: production for use. I.e. Central Planning actually being in place and not being a sham.

Sick bait fam.

Have you ever read the manifesto? The policies laid out at the end are literally just some tax and land reforms, do you really think that that is the core of communism? In contradiction to all other socialist writers and Marx's later works? That's retarded.

Pic related

Marx didn't endorse the Vanguard party, that was an invention of Lenin, which was heavily criticized by many of his Marxist colleagues like Rosa Luxembourg and Gene Debbs.

Learn to read m8.

pewglobal.org/2009/11/02/end-of-communism-cheered-but-now-with-more-reservations/communism220px/

By that logic the Incan Empire was socialist despite the existence of serfs and other distinct social classes. I think that the working class being self-governing is the key point, otherwise you just have the same master-slave relations as under capitalism but with a centralized economy.

Stop being a retard. The man said he might want to visit Scotland some day. That is all.

Abolition of private property - i.e. production for exchange. If you do not have Central Planning, you do not satisfy the basic criteria.

Ah. You are not even trying to actually argue here. You are trying to impress people with stuff he got brainwashed with.

Newsflash: you got lied to.

Next you'll be telling people Dictatorship of the Proletariat should not exist because its too authoritarian.

> The Communists, therefore, are on the one hand, practically, the most advanced and resolute section of the working-class parties of every country, that section which pushes forward all others; on the other hand, theoretically, they have over the great mass of the proletariat the advantage of clearly understanding the line of march, the conditions, and the ultimate general results of the proletarian movement.

Marx was all for organizing people by the Vanguard. It's just there was no Leninist type-party for him to point at.

It was not. Please, educate yourself.

The whole nonsense of "asiatic mode of production" had been debunked ages ago as misunderstanding that never existed in the first place. "Bureaucrats" were bureaucrats in name only, inheriting posts and acting like regular feudal lords.

Moreover, Socialism rises in response to Capitalist mode of production - which is inherent to industrial economy. A thing impossible for Incan Empire.

Not for Marxists. The essence is abolition of private property - it is for this (and through this) does the "democracy" exist.

Do I really need to write a whole damn book just for you?

Nice joke of a worldview you have there fam.

I have read the Manifesto, it's not exactly a piece of intellectually challenging work. But it summarizes every policy implemented by a communist state ever, in its 10 planks.

Sweet nothing's from a literal anarchist, they are even further up in lala land than regular commies, since they believe their retardation can be enforced even without a state! Hahahaha, "let's pretend we care about the reality of natural inequality by forging a doctrine which does the exact opposite of respecting that!".

By the way, did you know Bakunin was a dyed in the wool racist and antisemite?

Really good, I mixed up his prototype dictatorship of the proletariat with the Vanguard party, I'm sooo sorrrrry, this really changes a lot you guise! S-s-since o-obviously we c-can enforce our little dictatorship with all 50 million inhabitants of a country at the same time, who will all magically adopt our retarded ideology at the same time for their own good!

That fucker Lenin at least understood the Vanguard party was the only feasible way to attempt to spread his cancer in Russia.

Oh look, a poll! We know how great those are, just look at last year's electio- wait, they aren't. Besides, 5 of the only 9 measured former-marxshit countries "approve the change to capitalism" by bigger or smaller majorities. The rest has more poverty, but yet their economies and standard of living has objectively increased since 1989.

And in fact, in all those countries people rate having a higher life satisfaction today than in 1991, amongst other things. pewglobal.org/2009/11/02/chapter-1-rating-personal-well-being/

You lot should really have gotten to live in the Eastern Bloc and died of starvation/malnutrition, and had little and instable electricity or warm water every day, during winters.

Communism is cancer.

Oh I also forgot to mention in that favorite poll of yours they also show how literally every country named, including that shithole Ukraine, had a much higher proportion of people "satisfied with life" in 2009 than 1991.

Learn to read.

Stop being a mongoloid, the man is Scottish in and out but misses some typical Scottish customs, idealized ones, so according to kiddies on the interwebs, he's not Scottish. Probably because he's a career criminal and they don't want Scotland to be associated with him, unjustly.

Central Planning was active in every single Eastern Bloc country.

No you glaring retard, I have parents and they had friends and family too, who all lived through that era and experienced firsthand what a hell it was. And these were intellectual types (engineers) living in the fucking Capital.

So if an empire that had distinct social and even legal classes and were run by very obviously feudal lords that had "production for use" but now came out after a capitalist state fell, and abolished private property and claimed everything belonged to the public state that nobody on the lower classes could even hope to be a part of, that would be socialism?

Badmouse did an unironically quite decent video on the topic
youtu.be/le86H7Xfjrc

One of the planks is about seizing property of the French royalists, you retard. It was about the stuff that was mostly relevant in 1848.

The fuck are you even talking about?

USSR, DDR, Cuba, DPRK, Albania - five. And I'm being generous here. Where did you even get 9? And two are still not former.

Stop being a retard, for the last time. This is personal evaluation done without context. People were not comparing past and present, but saying how content they are right now. That's two different things.

When being actually asked (rather than have their answers distorted and interpreted for them), they support Socialism:
spiegel.de/international/germany/homesick-for-a-dictatorship-majority-of-eastern-germans-feel-life-better-under-communism-a-634122.html

Moreover, overwhelming majority of Soviet citizens literally voted to keep USSR. Even now they prefer it over Capitalism.
ttps://www.rt.com/politics/340158-most-russians-regret-ussr-has/

oh look it's the daily "defend a country with a 70% private sector economy whose government defends private property but because they say it's socialism it's socialism" thread

You shouldn't forget this classic comrade.

No, it wasn't. Most of nations were Social Democracies, not fully Socialist nations. Stop watching Faux News or whatever shitty propaganda source you are relying on.

And now you are simply lying.

> So if an empire that had distinct social and even legal classes and were run by very obviously feudal lords that had "production for use"
Did you even read my post?

That's because in 1991 you saw the greatest collapse in living standards in any developed country in history. That's like asking Germans in 1918 if they were satisfied with life and then asking again in 1935 and using that as proof of how great Nazism was. The bar is incredibly low.

Current prices in Maracaibo, Venezuela

Minimum wage: 136,544 ($6.83 - 20482 COP) + 189,000 food bonus ($9,45 - 28350 COP) = 325,544 VEF ($16,28 - 48832 COP)

1kg imported parmesan cheese: 78000 VEF ($3.90 - 11700 COP)
1kg cheddar cheese: 60000 VEF ($3.00 - 9000 COP)
1kg ripened cheese: 50000 VEF ($2.50 - 7500 COP)
1kg mozzarella cheese: 43000 VEF ($2.15 - 6450 COP)
1kg pasteurized cheese: 40000 VEF ($2.00 - 6000 COP)
1kg York ham: 45000 VEF ($2.25 - 6750 COP)
1kg beef (with bones): 22000 VEF ($1.10 - 3300 COP)
1kg chicken (with bones): 16000 VEF ($0.80 - 2400 COP)
1kg tomatoes: 10000 VEF ($0.50 - 1500 COP)
1kg carrots: 8000 VEF ($0.40 - 1200 COP)
1kg onions: 6000 VEF ($0.30 - 900 COP)
1kg parsley: 6000 VEF ($0.30 - 900 COP)
1kg chives: 6000 VEF ($0.30 - 900 COP)
1kg watermelon: 6000 VEF ($0.30 - 900 COP)
1kg potatoes: 4000 VEF ($0.20 - 600 COP)
1kg lettuce: 4000 VEF ($0.20 - 600 COP)
1kg yucca/cassava: 3000 VEF ($0.15 - 450 COP)
1kg peaches: 7000 VEF ($0.35 - 1050 COP)
1kg bananas: 3000 VEF ($0.15 - 450 COP)
30 eggs: 30000 VEF ($1.50 - 4500 COP)
500g mayonnaise: 15000 VEF ($0.75 - 2250 COP)
500g artisanal butter: 6500 VEF ($0.33 - 975 COP)
1kg low-fat powdered milk: 62500 VEF ($3.13 - 9375 COP)
1L liquid milk: 7000 VEF ($0,35 - 1050 COP)
1L cooking oil: 18000 VEF ($0,90 - 2700 COP)

It's a shame that capitalism is impoverishing yet another country.

…moot?

Oh boy, another mostly capitalist venezuela failed because of socialism thread. Next they'll be saying that Detroit, the jewel of post-war capitalism, failed because of socialism too.

Sure thing man, that's why the opposition got 2/3 of the seats in the national assembly 2 years ago.

My economics professor legitimately thinks that
Save me

It's a meme invented by self-proclaimed communists (MLs) so all anti-communists use that definition aswell

There's nothing said about the the French or royalists, you lying leftist cockroach. It's deliberately phrased neutrally.

I don't know, how about the fact that the only countries surveyed were Russia, Ukraine, Slovakia, Poland, Bulgaria, Lithuania, Hungary and the Czech Republic, with sometimes some in the West thrown in there for comparison? Illiterate marxist pig.
You're even talking about the DPRK, which does not answer Western surveys in any way, shape, or form, which proves how big of an idiot you really are.

Yeah, kill yourself communist scum. Besides, you still haven't gotten any survey that also gives the demographic breakdown of each answer.
And once more, regardless of subjective surveys (which as you saw, more often fall in my favour than yours) the economy is better off now than in 1989, and so are living standards. Because people can actually have food and electricity, unlike in your little excremental utopias.

I prefer the pic related classic, Comrade Cocksucker

No retard, the Soviet Union and every single Eastern Bloc country CENTRALLY PLANNED their economy, and that's the entire gist of their economic incompetence. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Bloc#Economies or about any page on any single Eastern Bloc country and its economy in the period.

1991 had a bit of a dip compared to before because of the instability of transition to a market-based economy, yes. But there was no "great collapse" to speak of. Everything was already shit in 1989, with shortages and squalor being the regular way of life for the citizens of Eastern Europe. 2 years didn't change much at that.

The Germans in 1918 still had reasonable living standards, it was with the hyperinflation a few years later that went very downhill. But those also had poor economic decisions as reasoning, together with debts.

and Eastern Germany*

these*

imagine actually believing this

Considering there were no mass starvations and still there were jobs, they did. Specially compared to the darkest periods of communist states. It was just a time of great political upheaval and marxist sabotage, in the form of the luckily failed revolution that got squashed like the bug it was.

stop bothering to convince anarcho/commie kiddies in their bubble, they'll get what they deserve on the dotr ;)

I want to find that guy and punch him in the face
You can tell he shitposts on hispachan everyday

This tbh. I don't care whenever Maduro or Chavez were socialists or not, they ran the country as poorly as humanly possible while building a cult of personality around giving away shit to the poor with the god-given oil money.

He's the Venezuela-thin version of moot. Look at his fucking arms.

i'll fix that for ya

Yet you worship his toilet paper from 1867, called Das Kapital.

we had such a powerful communist party once…
It all went in flames didn't it. Fuck this country.

so Hungary wants neither communism nor free markets? are they all Strаsserists?

You are retard who doesn't know history.

The 1872 German Edition
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/preface.htm
> However much that state of things may have altered during the last twenty-five years, the general principles laid down in the Manifesto are, on the whole, as correct today as ever. Here and there, some detail might be improved. The practical application of the principles will depend, as the Manifesto itself states, everywhere and at all times, on the historical conditions for the time being existing, and, for that reason, no special stress is laid on the revolutionary measures proposed at the end of Section II. That passage would, in many respects, be very differently worded today.

Those are your "ten planks".

That's just your retarded opinion.

Russia, Ukraine, and Lithuania were USSR, you retard. And the rest weren't Socialist.

Because there is a certain dearth of Marxist states. And yet you claim that at least nine of them existed.

Whine some more, retard. Your surveys were asking unrelated questions, not comparing anything.

How much of a baby one has to be, to whine about being talked to by a Communist? After deliberately crawling out of some Holla Forumsyp cesspool?

There will be no salvation, you Liberal shit. People aren't morons and they hate Capitalism.

So, you simultaneously lie about there being no food and electricity in USSR, and then imply that Soviets should've had living standards 30 years ahead of time?

Have you been drinking brainbleach lately or is this the infamous effect of being buttblasted?

An apt description of Capitalism.

Nope.

You cannot be serious.

Look again.

72% of Hungarians state that current situation is worse. This makes "Communism" they had preferable.

derp, right.

:^)

Why does he wear those fucking medals and sash? Does he realize how easily that can be twisted for interventionist propaganda?

You realize that Russia just recovered their pre 1991 GDP just a few years ago right?

Twisted? You don't need to twist anything to make him look bad.

Capital is still relevant in the modern day.

Chavez liked to play dress up too.
It's a feature almost all authoritarians go through, though some of them eventually outgrow it, assuming they live that long.

Why does the guy on the left have a Kalashnikov?

In what way was Chavez an authoritarian?