Justice Union: A Leftist DC Elseworld

Sounds more like Cyborg, but maybe Flash would fit. Or is there a difference between Technocracy and transhumanism?
This. Absolutely perfect! The Martian race was all but eliminated because of extraterrestrial imperialism, so it makes total sense!

cape shit is cancer

Fuck off, we're having fun

actually batman was not necessarily an anarchist, superman only describes him as "anarchy in black" and in his cave we see a torn american flag as well as several american beers and products, such as the big tony

I think those are meant to be trophies, like how regular Batman has trophies from his scuffles with various villains. The dinosaur robot and giant penny are the two most notable trophies of the batcave.

That is possible, although would an anarchist work alongside capitalists to overthrow MLs?
probably

how so? I understand it can be cancer but that doesn't mean it's cancer all the time.

The will to power is never a problem, the goal of using power always is.

Martian Manhunter is Posadist, duh. The Flash is Accelerationism.

Funny maymays my dude

This

Sorry I didn't take the topic about Marxist superheroes seriously enough

What if Earth 30-B Batman was part of the Black army and was sort of a loony that dressed as a bat to put fear into the White Army by attacking at night originally and kept the look after the revolution in Russia to fight in other conflicts and assassination missions. It'll give a reason for Batman to be seen using guns again.

Hey, I was complimenting you. Those were actually pretty funny applications to those characters. You don't have to take this seriously if you don't want to. This project could be a brilliant opportunity to spread leftist ideology, or it could just be one big meme exclusive to this board. Either way, we should be having fun with it.

That is a very fascinating approach… I dunno though. Should Earth 30-B Batman have guns at all? Is it subversion or enhancement of his character?

Oh I thought you were being arsey. Anyways. I don't have a problem with this or anything, could be good CC material, but it depends how it's done. As a member of the FURCOM GANG I can hardly be that cynical about something not being serious

I think it's best to not take the same character and put him in a different setting, but to be an entirely different person with just enough similarities to identify that it's this universe's Batman. The no kill policy was for a Batman that fought to clean the streets in Gotham, this Batman is an Anarchist fighting for the revolution.

True, the no-kill rule for a revolutionary Batman would be completely counter-intuitive. Though the reason Batman refrains from using guns is connected with the trauma of his parents' death. I can totally see Batman killing in an alternate setting, but I'm dubious about him using guns to do so unless it's for a good reason.

What can happen for the dead parents to be a thing in this setting is his father died fighting in Russo-Japanese war and his mother fell sick and died years later. He joined the Imperial Russian Army and fought in WW1. After the humiliating defeat served the Red Army stationed in Crimea and later joined the mutineers which joined the Black Army. He can have the mentality of being sick and tired of having rulers dictate his life while suffering their incompetence to justify his stance. He decides he'll fight his own way and wears a black cape with a hood with pointed ears to give a Batman look. This Batman goes full Macgyver and wrecks havoc on all who threaten the Free Territory under the cover of night.

Would the joker be an ayn rand lolbert in this universe?

Couldn't have said it better myself, user. That is fucking badass. We'll go with that!

That's more like Lex Luthor, though in Earth 30-B, Luthor would clearly be a powerful bourgeois elite. Not all that different from regular Lex, but his class status is more realized here.

If Batman is an anarchist vigilante in Earth 30-B, the Joker needs to be on the opposite side of that coin. Maybe some sort of chaotic ancap who's mad with fucking over society for his own gain? He should definitely have some sort of circus theme going, I think. Ringleaders are petty bourgeois, aren't they?

Twoface needs to be this guy. Also, I think that the "hero as insufferably pure and good symbol" vs "villain as complex and interesting character with flaws" should be reversed so that the protagonists are more complex and interesting than the villains, who are mostly shallow one-note douchebags just like their IRL counterparts.

Actually you know what, here's my idea for The Joker. Base him on the Sargonites. He's the antithesis of Batman, who has personal stakes and experience in politics. The Joker is just a shitty "comedian" or "cultural commentator" with no stakes or experience in the matter and lives to cause controversy and offend. He's not a physical threat in any way but he's on the forefront of the ideological battle against the left because he commands legions of fans who laugh about how the left = liberals and are too sensitive. Any attempts to criticize him are met with "I'm just Joking!(TM)" Him never getting killed is justified because killing him would be such bad optics for the heroes given the liberal normies' obsession with free speech.

Fucking PERFECT dude.

Though the thing about DC Comics is that they already make all their characters flawed and complex, heroes and villains alike. It lifts their writing to a very high standard that we should do no less than uphold faithfully.

Dude. Fucking… DUDE.

You are a goddamn genius.

We are TOTALLY doing this for the Joker. Perfect doesn't even begin to describe how well this fits.

What do you do with a character with a Randian/Objectivist background like the Question? In the 80s he was changed into a more “zen”, eastern philosophical inspired character.

Also, the WWII era team All-Star Squadron, instead of being created because of Pearl Harbor, could have been created after Operarion Barbarossa. Their HQ in the New York World Fair’s Trylon and Perisphere could be changed for some interesting looking Soviet architecture. I admit, as only a causal lurker in Holla Forums, ignorance of much of Soviet history so someone mare knowledgeable than me can probably suggest something concrete.
The team’s name could be changed to Red Star Squadron, too.

Where does Bane fall in?

Lumpenprole Drug lord

Should he have an element of those meatheads with hypermasculine supplements for sale?

I like how Lex was portrait in the original Red Son, can we keep him like that?

Jesus that's perfect

Here's a picture of him.

I only personally know the Question as he was portrayed in Justice League Unlimited, where he was just a general conspiracy theorist. The Red Star Squadron is a great idea, though. It could be a more Soviet-sanctioned hero team, as opposed to the more nationally independent Justice Union.

Sure, but only up to where he becomes president. Either that, or alter his path ever so slightly to where he's still the same character, but still one of the most powerful Porkies in the world. The bourgeoisie is the Legion of Doom to the Justice Union, evidently.

That's the dude who played Pennywise in the new It movie, isn't he? He'd no doubt play a great Joker, Earth 30-B or otherwise.

Sounds fucking awesome user and I hate batman too. Just add on that the son of the rich capitalist gets the judges paid off with daddies money.

We need to get some drawfags to drum up some character designs for this shit.

Also, is there any way to do a leftist Wonder Woman without intersectionality, anarcho-feminism, or any other sort of idpol involved?

No
WonderWom is reactionary shit from the outset so feminism is her only seriously leftist fallback

Bane is Chad Nationalist.

I'm not familiar with the details of the Red son story line so I'm not sure if everyone's abilities are different. But if Wonder Woman was suddenly Russian why not just dress her up like Black Widow.

Also it's really simple to maker her Russian because you could say a Russian pilot discovered her and Themyscria instead of an American one.

In redson Wonderwoman was the leader of themyscira and just sorta became allied with the USSR because she wanted Super dick

No, it's The Dangerous Faggot. He's a twat known for getting banned from college campus speaking engagements for saying lesbians aren't real and threatening to dox illegal immigrants.

The whole concept of the character is idpol. Her backstory is that she's from a Hellenic-themed utopia that was achieved by kicking out all the men. She'd have to be completely reworked. Or maybe she left because she got tired of the man-hating.

BTW if you want to read Red Son it's here on imgur
imgur.com/gallery/OIaKj

~150 pages. You can view on the site or download a .zip file with the pictures.

The best I can think of is that wonder woman in Earth 30-B was found by a Soviet pilot instead, and decided to help fight Porky because of the inherent alienation in a capitalist society is a big factor when it comes to why women generally have lesser rights than men in its history, and in a true egalitarian socialist society the problems that feminism seeks to solve wouldn't exist in the first place

What I'm really interested in is Green Lantern and The Flash. Neither one of them are overtly ideological or political, and something tells me they wouldn't be. Green Lantern could be a Soviet pilot instead of American, or a communist sympathiser, and decided to use his power to help the Justice Union instead of the erm…. Legion of Porky? I mean, in the original setting the Guardians of the Universe (bosses of the Green Lantern Corps) are pretty frigid a-holes who are pretty disconnected from the denizens of the Universe(highlighted a lot in the more modern comics) and didn't care that Sinestro, the original "Greatest Lantern" had turned his sector into a fascist dictatorship, so they wouldn't care if Hal Jordansky used his power to help the Soviets instead of Americans.

Similarly, The Flash is at his core a hopeful fellow who wants to help everyone, and works in his day job as an investigator with a strong sense of justice, after seeing his dad jailed for a murder he didn't commit. One of his main character conflicts is that no matter how fast he goes, he's always late for something: personal life, saving someone, whatever. Not very political. Maybe his desire to help everyone whenever he can could manifest in him deciding that Communism is the way to go for this goal?

Also the Reverse Flash can still be a fanboy from the future who's not right in the head, and escaped the 25th century because he didn't like his socialist utopia because he's a selfish dick. or something.

Nolan's Bane is basically Lenin as seen through the lens of bourgeois ideology. I'd keep him more or less the same except without being an omnicidal maniac bent on blowing everything up for no reason.

Sadomasochistic bondage is idpol now?

Literally his only crime in that movie. Aside from that he was the good guy. Lol, if it wasn't for his need to kill wantonly and blow crap up he would have been a better hero than Batman.

One of these things is not like the others.

Those are some pretty good ideas, user! I love how we're getting quite the thoughtful writers up in here contributing to this little project.

Perhaps Wonder Woman could learn of the socioeconomic divide between men and women when venturing into the capitalist nations of Man's World, alongside the Soviet rendition of Steve Trevor, who could be just as much an expert spy as the actual Steve Trevor is, infiltrating Western nations to perform espionage there. Upon witnessing not only that very gender divide, but the suffering many face under the alienation and exploitation of capitalism, Wonder Woman would vow to dedicate herself to fighting the forces of bourgeois oppression and Western imperialism everywhere around the world. If the Wonder Woman movie shows anything about her character, it's that she's an inherently caring person, and wants the best for humanity. Perhaps she could be a little less naive in Earth 30-B and be extremely well-read in ancient philosophy, so that she'll be more readily able to critically observe the material conditions of society, capitalist or otherwise.

You've pretty much got Green Lantern down quite well for Earth 30-B. Ideologically, Hal Jordan seems pretty simplistic, and could be nothing more than Hal Jordan as we usually know him except as a Soviet pilot fighting for socialism against Porky. Other Green Lanterns are a more interesting topic, though. John Stewart is more militant and strict by nature… Maybe he could be a rather tough Soviet soldier whose military training took place during the Stalin regime? Guy Gardner would pretty much be the average tankie, lol.

Funny thing about the Flash… My personal favorite hero is Superman, but personality-wise, I'm a lot more like the Flash. An optimistic smartass with an insatiable appetite and a strong sense of justice and desire to help people. And speaking in terms of both my personality and my leftist standings, I'm a bit of an idealist too. I declared myself a communist early on because the word of Marx inspired me that a better society for all humanity is possible. I still believe that to this day. So if you need to design the character of Earth 30-B Flash, you can just base him off myself if you like. I'd be humbly honored if you decide to.

I've heard the theory float around that Bane is /ourguy/, and frankly, I disagree. He may seem quite revolutionary on the outside, but he admitted to Batman that it was all a facade to lull the people of Gotham into a false sense of liberation before their demise. In the prison hole that's described as the "worst hell on Earth", Bane explains his plan to a crippled Bruce Wayne…

So sorry guys, Bane is no revolutionary. Just expertly manipulative. This could work quite well in Earth 30-B somehow, if we figured out the right way to do it.

The only one here that doesn't belong is you and your idpol faggotry.

Dude obviously if you take it face value bane isn't /ourguy/ which is why they look at the movie as a work of film and conclude that bane is only bad fue to ideology

Does this all take place in Russia like in Red Son or the US?

It's more something that involves more parts of the world where leftism is concerned. The Justice Union's Hall of Justice could perhaps be centered in Moscow. The US would be one of the "bad guy" territories, particularly where Lex Luthor resides.

Masterson (I don't remember if this is how you spell it) Created WW as a vehicle to showcase why he tough matriarchy was superior.
In the early comics amazon island was show to be a super advanced utopia and the amazons themselves were physically superior to common men and I think WW traveled outside of the island to show men's world that her ways were superior.
Masterson was a victim of his era, he had been born later he will be your run of the mill fetishist instead of trying to justify and promote his fetish in a bunch of different frameworks and media

So what you're saying is, Golden Age WW was a vessel of femdom?

Bump

Hot

Yes

In the inevitable crisis crossover event, when the Justice Union meets the Justice League, will they be immediately hostile towards each other or will it be like the Justice Lords story where our heroes slowly realize these parallel heroes are not really the good guys? And, will any of our heroes or the Justice League be sympathetic towards each other?

I imagine the justice union would be open to cooperating at first but quickly start to notice something isn't quite right with the league

pretty much

Bitchin'. That would be the fuckin' tits.

I don't think the League would necessarily have any ill sentiments against the Union. The League isn't pro-capitalist; in fact, they do their best to save lives and defend Earth while still remaining apolitical, despite occasionally drawing controversy thanks to scrutinous government officials like Amanda Waller, or pompous talking heads like Gordon Godfrey.

Perhaps the League wouldn't personally condone the Union's blatant platform of leftist political warfare, but would still acknowledge them as allies against legitimate threats to the safety of Earth and humanity. They just wouldn't let the Union carry out any missions in the Prime dimension, to maintain their non-interference policy.

Oh, and the League wouldn't trust any potential Posadists in the Union for intergalactic threats like Mongul or Darkseid. For obvious reasons.

Bump

Seconded

Calling all drawfags!

yes, one without self awareness.

Read year 1, ya doofus

also this, mainly
trite social commentary with 100 year old IPs
Literally anything and everything possible

There are more indie comics than Big Two.

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I recently been pondering
Why does this happen? Why are villains more interesting that heros?

Heroes, especially comic book heroes, have to conform to more specific archetypes than villains do. There's only so many variations of good guy that you can create while villains have a lot more room to be three dimensional. You can tell a story about a sympathetic villain but generally speaking no one likes an unsympathetic hero (anti heroes have to be at least somewhat sympathetic to work imo)
Plus there's the fact that in most stories, the villian is the one who takes the active role in the plot to change things while the hero has to react to the villain. That gives the bad guys more agency and thus more opportunity to impress the audience.
Personally I'd love for more stories about proactive heroes but that rarely gets published, and when it does it's usually with the message that good guys shouldn't try to force their worldview on the world.

This is off-topic but I really, really enjoyed BvS. I didn't really grow up with comic book heroes as much as tokusatsu and mecha but I'd rate it on the same level as Pacific Rim. And since I like this place, I hope you did too.

On a more related note, I don't really see the point of changing Superman's symbol. I'm guessing he's much more involved with the state in Red Son, but if that's not the plan it just seems like a shallow way to say "Hey, this alien isn't AMERICAN!" like America has a monopoly on it which makes no sense. The "S" is already red.

Actually, isn't the whole point of Superman pretty posadist?

Mark Millar is a hack and changing the Superman symbol into a hammer and sickle is meant to be edgy in burgerland.

It seems pretty anti-posadist because even though superman has metahuman intelligence and access to amazing technologies that could revolutionize life on earth and obviate much of the crime he fights he doesn't share it with humanity.

Fucking SAME, dude. I don't give a fuck what anyone else says, that movie is a masterpiece. The Ultimate Edition, anyway. The theatrical cut admittedly has some pacing issues.

Have you seen the Ultimate Edition, or just the theatrical cut? Why exactly did you enjoy BvS so much, if I may ask? I must say, though, I find it very impressive that it managed to win over a non-comic-reader in the same vein as it did with me, an avid and well-read comic nerd who recognized the faithful accuracy to the wide variety of source material in that movie.

the idea was always that if superman shared that tech and did everything for humanity they would never have the opportunity to grow and develop themselves.
Which is really stupid if you think about all the potential future Einsteins who are going to die young from curable diseases because Clark doesn't want to let doctors find out about kryptonian medicine

The DCEU is pin-point accurate to the source material. No doubt about it.

MCUcks BTFO
#DCmasterrace

the mcu sucks but don't you dare try to whitewash zach snyder user

Its all cancer all the time.

Long off-topic rambling incoming. I'm no film buff so, really, I enjoy them on a surface level. I didn't notice the "editing/pacing issues" people keep mentioning in the three times I watched it in theatres. Before BvS though, I had only seen MoS once, left feeling confused and promptly got swept up in the negativity. I of course decided to see that again before getting the UE.

To put it simply, BvS is spectacular. The opening immediately caught my attention and the whole thing is just brimming with tension and emotion. It's not afraid to be dramatic which I absolutely love and believe to be why it is so compelling. I recently saw a video that highlights how much it takes advantage of the medium by showing instead of telling and there are plenty of scenes with little to no dialogue (esp. action sequences) which again, I love. Don't get me started on the OST. All the faithfulness, imagery, parallels and homages serve to add to it when I thought there was nothing left. It's also ironic that DC being so far the more "grounded" of the two does not shy away from fantastic imagery like Bruce getting lifted by the bats.

Having grown up with tokusatsu, I have an appreciation (and craving) for all things fantastic. I love big things that need to be done with special effects. The problem however is the lack of proper respect for that simple concept by most filmmakers and viewers. The market is so saturated with soulless cash-grab spectacles which are so focused on having crazy stuff on-screen they forgot all about how to do it: cinematography. Some of my favourite SFX are powerful moments, that show the subject's majesty or beauty outside of fight scenes. Pic related. BvS had them too, the most prominent being Superman's montage. The action is, most importantly, comprehendable. Bamham hits like a truck and the warehouse scene is incredible. And for a last-minute CGI big guy final boss, Doomsday felt like a legitimate threat. The scene of Superman taking it to space is another beautiful moment.

I didn't even about characters. There was character development. Superman. Batman stole the show. Alfred has the superpower of bantz. Lex was great too. Female characters are actually important here and no, I'm not talking about WW. There's the whole theme of mothers and Lois the love interest is actually a character and has things to do. Actually, I just realised that the plot had nothing to do with saving the entire world until Doomsday came in so that probably helped. Did I miss anything?

not a good look to promote imo

I wish they'd stop holding so tightly to the status quo and actually explore how the world would or could change by introducing this Super technology. It's the same thing that bothers me about the MVU. Every time the world takes a turn for the interesting or the speculative it's just a set up for it to get knocked down and returned to the status quo. I loved Straczynski's run on Thor, where you have Asgard looming over rural Oklahoma and these gods and heroes rubbing shoulders with these Okies. Then Siege happened and welp so much for that. Woops gotta put Asgard back and resurrect Odin. Thanks Fraction. Though Journey into Mystery kinda soothed that wound… for a little while.

It's possible to do a story that explores the issues in the world we have now without having all our problems solved by some magical ubermensch. For instance, Alex Ross (and Paul Dini?) did a Superman story where Supes naively goes to the UN and says that the rich countries need to do more to help the poorer ones. He tries to solve the world's problems by redistributing food and that sort of liberal nonsense, but it ends in failure, because human nature :^)

And of course, it has to be some kind of impossible-to-change reason like human nature that produces this outcome. It's the same reason despite being worlds with literal super humans in them, things cannot look anything unlike what we have today. You start doing treacherous things like saying "why don't they change things?" and you start to come up with thorny questions like "why can't things be changed?" For things to be changed, they have to be the result of material processes that can be effected. Letting normal people start thinking that way can be dangerous! Better instead to make the result immutable based on the intransigent universal certainty of Human Nature. Sorry, I guess even Superman isn't strong enough to change that.

I can't remember where I read it, but in some theory regarding bourgeois fiction (iirc), it was said that a distinction of bourgeois novels/fiction is that bourgeois fiction just accepts the functioning of the system as a natural process without comment. The business of society happens in the background if at all and the system in which the characters lives hardly if ever effects them. Reversing that, examining the place the characters occupy without society and their interactions with it, it's possible to render a pertinent examination and critique of that society. An example of what I'm talking about is The Grapes of Wrath, which goes into detail regarding the forces that created the circumstances that the characters find themselves in and that move and effect them throughout. There isn't any reason that something similar couldn't be done in the context of a superhero story

Which used to happen kinda, as you can see in the GL/GA panels above, and these old Captain America panels. IMO, these kinds of things (as liberal as they are/were) were more likely/possible before, but I doubt there's much room in the American comics industry for people that seriously question the way things are, or why. I don't think Disney executives would really be happy if their valuable properties were used to question the validity of sweatshops in Asia or the petroleum industry or that kind of thing.

Also, bonus WW fighting the patriarchy :^)

this is my biggest problem with capeshit. Once you strip away the aliens and mad scientists both DC and Marvel earth are virtually identical to the real world. You would think with all the super geniuses running around at someone would have tried reverse-engineering and mass-marketing super technology to people. And considering that people know for a fact that magic and gods exist but still act like people irl do is just a missed opportunity for storytelling.
Honestly i think most writers are too lazy to consider the implications of just how a superhero filled universe would function. Even when you get stories set in the future society is still structured exactly like modern day America.
I vaguely remember reading DC one million and how it was mentioned that in the future humans have crossbred with alien races and superheroes so much that everyone has superpowers. That would have been a cool concept to explore.

this is my biggest problem with capeshit. Once you strip away the aliens and mad scientists both DC and Marvel earth are virtually identical to the real world. You would think with all the super geniuses running around at someone would have tried reverse-engineering and mass-marketing super technology to people. And considering that people know for a fact that magic and gods exist but still act like people irl do is just a missed opportunity for storytelling.
Honestly i think most writers are too lazy to consider the implications of just how a superhero filled universe would function. Even when you get stories set in the future society is still structured exactly like modern day America.
I vaguely remember reading DC one million and how it was mentioned that in the future humans have crossbred with alien races and superheroes so much that everyone has superpowers. That would have been a cool concept to explore.

I agree, and actually, thank you for reminding me about something.

A storyline I really enjoyed before Avengers Disassembled involved a bunch of oppressed East Europeans praying to Thor to save them from getting ethnically purged. Thor hears their prayers, and so he goes and intervenes to protect the worshipers. Of course, soviet-surplus weaponry is no match for Thor and the gang.

This has the natural effect of destabilizing the whole region and making a lot of other dictators nervous, and the US doesn't take kindly to it either. Iron Man gets sent in to talk Thor down, who of course gets pissed that Tony is intervening on behalf of a genocidal warlord bent on eradicating people who out of desperation turned to Thor for help, because no one else would. Tony babbles some moralizing crap and they fight, blah blah. Thor is eventually convinced to leave, and in the aftermath it turns out that Doctor Doom engineered the whole thing so and swoops in to "restore order" over this country which was bordering Latveria.

So, of course it returns to the status quo at the end and is full of liberal moralizing ("Who gave you the right to intervene in human affairs?!" sort of shit iirc), but I really liked the idea. I just wish they'd do more of that and actually make it stick instead of slavishly holding to the status quo.

Heroes are supposed to be audience surrogates at least in part. Other than that they're supposed to be paragons, which usually means the humanzing edges get shaved off. Villains are supposed to be flawed and in some sense failures. Zizek himself has pointed out that we love people for their flaws. Villains are much more plausible and actually relatable while heroes are supposed to be closer to a blank canvas onto which we can project.

Heroes also have to adhere to certain social standards, many of which are far from perfect. The dissonance between the supposed heroism and the kind of shitty ideals (think of batman and his no killing and no guns faggotry) makes the heroes come off as kind of stilted. Meanwhile villains are allowed to have more internally consistent beliefs and come into conflict with society (also relatable). Heroes in this sense are almost always conservative or reactionary, preserving the status quo for good or ill. Villains have the freedom to run the political gamut.

Those Cap pics are pretty awesome. It's the kind of rage that can lead someone to merely be a socdem, or perhaps further down the line of denying capitalism. I'm saving them, thx bro.

I like that pic with Supes and Pa. Pa's kind of early 20th century folksy wisdom reminds me of groups like the IWW and other radical worker movements that saw Socialist ideas as simple and obvious.

I like it, too. Some people like to shit on Ross because he's mad gay for the retro motif, which isn't exactly wrong, but I think he really succeeds in capturing the idealized superhero in moments like this.

I really should try and dig up copies of these old issues to see what else I can find. IIRC Cap was resurrected in the 60s for just that purpose: to pillory modern America for failing to live up to its ideals. I saved these ages ago from some Holla Forums thread I think, and I seem to remember there being more.

...

On a smaller note, in the Ultimate Edition, we see a lot more investigative journalism from Lois and Clark, both going out on their own to look into cases they feel like they should be investigating, despite Perry White's orders to publish the "right" kind of information to the public. Considering how fucking dead honest journalism is these days, in pretty much any medium you look into (newspapers, news channels, news websites, pundit shows, radio broadcasts, even fucking movie review sites), it's really quite inspiring to see legitimate journalism be shown in such an encouraging light by a film such as this. In the back of my mind, I personally dearly hope that the next great journalist of the near future will be inspired by the Ultimate Edition of BvS, and will inform the public of truths that may shatter the establishment as we know it. Wouldn't that be wonderful?

Bump

Oh this could be coo-
Oh. Nevermind.

I see how Luthor hates superman from a elite point if view. You can do whatever you want; hurt who you want or force people to 2hat you want and buy what you want but you will never have real power like a man who can tank a nuke face first or can lift bridges like toothpicks.

I can make an army wreck a city! Who fucking cares superman just blew up a meteor while you stew in your false pretend power to bribe desperate individuals and manipulate morons.

Like pol it's hard to pretend to be superior due to your money and bloodlines when that man can crush mountains with his hands and what does he do with his godlike power?

He helps mankind with his abilities like the ones Luthor deems less than dog shit and it infuriates him.

If there were super-powered people in real life it wouldn't matter if these people were no threat to capitalism in any way and were saints with not a speck of dust on them the elite would try to kill them and if they couldn't kill them then demonize them; destroy their loves ones and make their lives unlivable not out of fear but spite because they would wake up everyday and be hit with the paradox that they are superior but these super powered freaks can perform wonders that they can't.

Sorry for the errors on my phone.

Robot chicken is the best version of superman.
He disrespects batman every week and shits on luthor even if he is gay.

Da Da Da Da SUPERMAN!

youtube.com/watch?v=qWxAZxDkKrM

youtube.com/watch?v=RqP-_4SSYFM&t=40s

Damn wrong one.
He even fucks batman and makes him gay.

Robot Chicken Batman is also great. He completes the comedic Batman holy trinity:

It's even quite arguable that the first two Batmen helped in the creative conception of Lego Batman.

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Ah, right. Villains. The way they're treated in MoS and BvS are much more respectful than what I see in most of MCU. Although Zod and Lex are not really sympathetic, I feel they're so much more closer in spirit to Raimi's Spider-Man antagonists who are pretty much all tragic. Kal did not celebrate killing Zod, who was raging after losing everything he had worked for. Lex is unceremoniously imprisoned, stripped of all his resources which had allowed his dangerous mind to cause so much damage. Both were proper responses, physically and emotionally, to the threat that each posed.

The worst thing happened at the end of Dr. Strange, which I was enjoying up to that point. So lets laugh at a guy that goes to experience literal hell eternally because of a deal HE made. What a hero. In contrast, I quite liked Ultron and its(?) quirks despite the messy film and its final moments with Vision had feeling.

Another aspect of BvS that I love is how much context it put by actually showing the ordinary person's perception/experience of the heroes and their actions. The most prominent example is Metropolis' destruction with Jack, Wally and Bruce himself along with all the other bystanders. Another is the amazing horror-esque Batman reveal with that one cop. There's a video comparing this to Civil War which really showed how it did nothing much to give the people a voice even though it too was supposed to deal with the issue of public worry.

Also, am I the only one that feels the issue of Batman killing is as overblown as the destruction of Metropolis in MoS? Yes, no doubt a few do die from his assaults but it never seemed to me that he's actively killing as much as just not caring for the livelihood of random thugs.

divinity by Valiant comics deals with communist superheroes (third volume more)

That was a story line in I think ultimate fantastic four where everyone on the world became a super hero besides The Thing who got turned back into a normal person (all Ben ever wanted) and all kinds of shenanigans happen. think it was just for an issue though.

what do you want

Absolutely true, m8. Same all the way. DC knows how to do villains the right way. When MCU villains aren't totally forgettable garbage, they're little more than joke vessels. They're at least fairly entertaining, granted, but that doesn't automatically make them good villains. The depth and threat level is done away with in favor of sucking a chuckle out of the MCUcks.
try saying that 5 times fast

There's really no contest between BvS and Civil War. I fell in love with BvS the first time watching it, and kept finding more reasons to love and defend it from that point onward. Civil War was okay at first, but the more I thought about it, the more I hated it. I might hate it even more than Iron Man 3, come to think of it. Civil War is horseshit. It's insulting and idiotic on so many levels. I could go on forever about this.

Yes. Yes. FUCKING YES DUDE. Batman killing is SO damn overblown. Nu- Batfags just love to sperg over how he'd "NEVA DOO DAT", but these inbred mouthbreathers don't actually read any fucking comic books, so they don't realize that Batman used to kill ALL THE TIME in the Golden Age, and the only reason the "no-kill rule" was ever implemented was to comply with the Comics Code Authority or whatever it is. Plus, Batman has killed SO many people in the Tim Burton movies, Batman Forever, AND Batman Begins, and nobody bat a fucking eye to ANY of that. These faggots have literally NO right to whine about Batman killing when he's already killed people so many times in the past right in front of their dumbfuck faces. It pisses me off to absolutely no end.

You still offering drawings?

...

But it's true. It's almost as good as Suicide Squad. The incoherent, jumbled pacing and editing of SS makes us feel what it's like to be part of the incoherent, jumbled Squad making it pure kino.

Fuck off, both of you. You obviously didn't see the Ultimate Edition of BvS or the Extended Cut of Suicide Squad.

And even if I didn't like them, they would STILL be better than the sloppy liberal mess that is Civil War. Fuck that horseshit.

We live in a world where the main setpiece of a movie with "Civil War" in its title is lauded for being "fun". I'll admit that the last fight was tense, thinking that something really bad was gonna happen. But it didn't. Tony had so much potential after Avengers. Now his irritating voice ruins the most meaningful scene in Homecoming.

I can only hope capitalism doesn't erode the genre any further. Justice Union, or whatever form it may take, needs to happen. Real issues with real resolution. Status quo is a supervillain. But how?

Who can really say, my friend? But I at least know how we can start.

… Inspire hope.

The people are as desperate as they ever have been in this day and age. The American working class was desperate to the point of voting in a politically incompetent capitalist pig, the very type of person making their lives so miserable to begin with, because the so-called "for the people" Democrats had alienated them in favor of power in office and superficial popularity. What the people need more than anything is hope. Hope that a better society than the one they live in, the one relentlessly fucking them over, is entirely possible, and that if we stand united against our oppressors, we can make it happen.

"They can be a great people if they wish to be. They only lack the light to show them the way."

"You will give the people of Earth an ideal to strive towards. They will race behind you. They will stumble, they will fall. But in time, they will join you in the sun. In time, you will help them accomplish wonders."

Except our Superman won't come from a dying planet. He'll come through our hearts.

WE are Superman.

Let's go save the world, comrades.

...

Wow leftypol is total soyboy home ground. Keep your hope, real men rely on devotion.

Pacific Rim would be great leftist commentary. The governments literally fail to combat a global threat because their economic system can't be tooled to fight without capital.

War communism would've been more effective.

Imma fill both of you soyboys with my hammer and sickle.

Fat chance. Last two commies I met, I fucked in the ass. No joke. Nice sweet community hole. Hahaha they didn't even leave when I showed them my swastika collection because commies love alt right dick.

Lewd

Truth

Nazi are pretty shit thought tbh Tankies are much more attractive with all that authoritarian leftism

Yeah I'm not a nazi, I'm altright. The swastika is the most charged magical symbol atm so that's why I use it. Hey I'm not complaining the commies were hot. But those gay SS soldiers get me every time.

Pathetic, Im loyal to the cause

Just make her into something like Emma Goldman. She's not a third wave feminist at least and she is leftist.
Not who would be the personification of Hoxha's philosophie.

Hadn't heard the term Tankie before thought it was like twink at first. Either way between the sheets or on the streets I'll own your ass.

Ill throw a firebomb at you fash

Not before you sit on my face

Man I hate batman so much.

I was watching an episode of justice league unlimited about this girl named ace who accidentally killed her parents with her out of control psychic powers, the government takes her in and fucking experiments on her to turn her into a weapon they can use, she ends up captured by another government group(amanda walker) and then finally being *rescued* by the joker who she saw as a friend only for him to be using her as a pawn.

Girl finds out she has a brain aneurysm from her powers and she is going to die.
Batman asks her to undo the damage she did and tells the girl he can identify with her being alone as he lost his family.

Literally had to turn that shit into a jerk batman off scene. Read the above and Bruce is fucking rich and all his suffering is shit he inflicted on himself.
I would have spit in batman's face and mind raped his ass just for the hell of it if that was me in my position. He truly is the hero of the rich.

… Its a children's cartoon…

And?

Read a book and fuck off.

None of this should exist. All of this was terrible and I'd give an hour of my life to forget this chain.

So Joker as neo-nazi reactionary celebrite performing high profile terror to "prove" that proles are evil and you need muh stronk state

Reminder that in the Nolan canon joker wins

You guys can't demand that much intellectual depth out of a capeshit cartoon for boys 8-12

Why not?

Pretty sure there's a word for people like that.

Oh god. I'm not ready.

The rich guy out to "protect his city" most known for his intimidation tactics is recipe for fascism, intended or not. Anarchist Batman seems to be the way to go. Which is funny to say since I think that's what the persona is to begin with. It's Bruce (and how much he seeps through) that sticks out.

Perhaps instead of removing that dynamic entirely, we could reverse it. Rather than have the Batman be something that he has to avoid embracing fully for whatever reason, it's whatever is left of his idealism and faith in the system depite his experiences outside of it as Batman that prevents him from aiming for something more radical (and meaningful). Maybe we can go the Nite Owl route but with a bit of Rorschach's instability considering his backstory. That's all I have with what little I know.

Those Watchmen characteristics would work really well in an anarchist Batman. I'm baffled as to why Alan Moore completely missed that golden opportunity to write Batman in that manner, considering the fact that he's an anarchist himself.

Modern heroes are reactionary by nature. They never strive to change the world, only to preserve the status quo from the villains who seek to change it. They never act, only react. This is a purposeful change too, as old stories like Odyssey or Hercules had the hero set out on some epic quest to achieve something and the villains served as hindrance to this endeavor, whereas in modern superhero tales it's exactly reversed.

The Nite Owl / Rorschach conflicts could be adapted almost directly to a Bruce Wayne / Batman version. Nite Owl is the idealistic version of the role he's trying to play. Rorschach is the version he becomes when the chips are down and his idealism buts up against reality (i.e. when prep time wasn't good enough). Sort of the "Batman grabs a gun" moment where the idealist facade falls away and he goes from Batman the master gadgeteer and world's greatest detective to Batman the messy but effective improvisor and martial artist.

The Odyssey is not the best example of a proactive hero. The entire story is about Odysseus trying to get home and restore things to how they were before he left to fight in the Trojan War.

Is that really true for heroes in general, or just for comic book superheroes that are working in a continuity that needs to support multiple stories indefinitely?
When you don't plan an ending you want each individual storyline to end with the world being approximately the same way as it begins, not (necessarily) because you're against change in principle but because that's the only feasible way to execute the format.
Moore's Miracleman, for example ( >>>/storytime/2532 ) is one of the least reactionary things I've read. And that's possible because it has a real ending.

If you want to have an indefinite episodic format your protagonist needs to either have reactionary goals or fail all the time.

T. Copypasta

posadist Martian manhunter ofc

Marvel/Miracleman is fucking tops. Everyone should read it.

I can't even tell if they aren't just taking the piss anymore. Are they all actually master trolls snickering at us idiots who actually believe that something as embarrassingly stupid as ancapism could possibly have followers in real life? This shit just cannot be true. Nobody would come with this get-up if their explicit goal wasn't publicly humiliating themselves.

anuddah shoah

the punisher was at its absolute peak with MAX, when the capeshit was completely gone

"In America, comic is read! In Soviet Russia, comic is RED!"

...

Oh sweet Christ, I forgot that "in Soviet Russia" jokes even existed. They were funny in 9th grade, but I completely forgot about them after becoming a full-on communist.

Should we have a different thread about these entirely?

"So uh I heard you guys were talking about super heroes.."

Unless it's really long and important to you, we don't have to kill another thread. Besides, I'm just here to complain about having to deal with Holla Forums-types in Pacific Rim threads of all places. I can't get a discussion going thanks to just how anxious people are with the director change AND the main character being black. Shit.

How is it going in Justice League threads?

Aw man, that sucks ass. Terribly sorry for you there, man. You're more than welcome to speak as freely as you like here without being bogged down by Holla Forums-tier autism. Be my guest.

I can definitely tell you that Justice League threads are NOT going well in Holla Forums. They're infected with negative-Nancy MCUcks bitching and moaning about all the typical shit you'd expect from the likes of them, i.e. "the CGI looks like shit", "muh Hack Snyder", the list goes on. It's fucking insufferable to the point that even Holla Forums threads about Justice League have a better chance of legitimate discussion instead of being just one big hateboner circlejerk, if only due to those meme-addicted fuckheads spamming shit like how Zack Snyder lifts; not that I don't appreciate that about one of my personal favorite film directors, but the fact that Holla Forums is literally as shallow as to find that the only positive about Justice League (one that's very loosely connected, if at all) is nothing short of aggravating.

bump

batman is a fundamentally fascist character. he exists to police the boundaries of society and brutalize the outcasts.

Thankfully the ooga booga posting died down. Negativity still abound which is understandable. Just imagine Zack getting pulled out of Justice League before it was even made. Man, with all the recent excitement I completely forgot how much shit you get for liking him. I admire how he can blend a competent story with unapologetic, stylish visuals and it's hard to believe that plenty don't. Him working with Del Toro would be something.

I find myself really enjoying films with less dialogue focus like The Revenant, both Blade Runners, Drive and such. Just sinking into the ambience. It was nice to get some of that in BvS too, intense as it was. Now to wait for mecha and kaiju ones…

I think any superhero can be fascist if you dumb them down enough.

How is that?

Wat.

I thought this thread was dead?

Half of it is gone and images are fucked. It's a zombie.
Justice League soon.

OP here.

I thought it was dead too, until I miraculously saw it pop up in the catalog when I was scrolling through it. Thank God it's still here, we had some great ideas going, and I intend to at least archive them the soonest chance I get. But let's not stop there! Let's keep this thread going, guys!

I was the strangest thing. I finally bookmarked this thread and the first time I used it half the posts already disappeared and images weren't loading.

Caught Free State of Jones last night. That's something I'd like to see Cap or Supes emulate rather than another Injustice rehash. Even with all the people complaining about Snyderman not being "nice"(dumb) enough, I can't help feeling that plenty are also just salty that they dare make Batman be in the wrong AND Supes not be a dick-tator as if that's the most character development he's allowed for some reason.

Something that flew over my head until an article mentioned it was Clark's portrayal as one. Again, like Lois (who wasn't spared from "criticism" unfortunately which shows how disingenuous they are), Clark the reporter is not a bumbling idiot. It's Perry that treats him like one. At work, Lois has more power. Clark clearly aspires to do the same things she's doing but gets repeatedly shut down by his superior. Honestly never thought about it before. I can only hope this much gravitas given to a CBM low-key inspires other filmmakers like how Jorodowsky's Dune did.

That's actually a great point you make about Clark in BvS. I never really thought about that all that much before you brought it up. The impression so many people have about Clark, especially Donnerfags, is that he's supposed to be this cartoonishly clumsy, mild-mannered persona so as to distinguish a ridiculously simplistic difference between Clark and Superman, and it doesn't challenge the audience whatsoever. The point of Clark's character is supposed to be a reflection of Kal-El's human values, and how he acts upon them in human society without his superpowers. Seeing as how Superman is a more fantastical ideal of what humanity should strive to be, Clark gives us an idea of how we can follow in Superman's example in our everyday lives, simply by doing the right thing, regardless of what any authority figure may say otherwise. Sometimes we have to take risks and question the status quo in order to do the right thing. Christopher Reeve's goody two-shoes klutzy Clark is actually counter-intuitive to that aspiration.

Zack Snyder is fucking based for finally giving us an on-screen Superman that's actually true to the character.

Yes! He's an actually decent person with ideals even in civilian life. I literally cannot understand the hate. Reminds me of how people took Raleigh for granted. He's not as prominent as his partner or superior, which seems to be the main criticism, but there's a reason I like him as a main character. RLM (like most people) tried to paint him as the archetypal "loose cannon" action hero which is just plain wrong. It took feminist-types to recognise that who unfortunately are prone to the idpol trap. There's a good one though along the lines of "Raleigh is a Strong Female Character" which explains it well. Don't let the title scare you. The author clarifies that the traits she's describing are not actually gendered IRL, just that they usually are in action blockbusters.

Speaking of civilians, I appreciate how the PPDC isn't purely military force. How they're using terms like "Ranger" and "Marshall". Wouldn't be surprised if the bulk of personnel are just technicians. As the war became seemingly hopeless and government funding got pulled, they begin to look more like a militia. Just look at Tendo! The ever-present WW2 worker aesthetic also helped. It's as Stacker said.

The earliest pilots were military personnel for obvious reasons. But drift compatibility is rare and Jaeger training became specialised. Raleigh himself has a civilian background. Hell, he was a prole working for ration cards for five years. Del Toro made sure even the scientists got a hero moment. Everyone contributed. Don't forget the brief news clip about elites retreating inward leaving the poorest at the mercy of kaiju. The message was clear.

Whew. That's enough PR shilling for now. Just wanted to add to that deleted post about BvS giving civilians agency.

...

I think there's also more to say about the Wall than just a passing jab at reinforced borders. There you have thousands of workers putting hours in a high-risk environment. Those who perish at the top are quickly replaced with the promise of better ration cards. I caught no whiff of currency and this isn't communism we're talking about, so you know that's bad.
People are quite literally putting their life on the line to get food. Building a Jaeger isn't the safest thing but I imagine it was much better. Plus, they actually can work.

All this talk about civilian life makes me wonder how that will be handled in JL. That runtime though. Is it still a two-parter?

Thoughts on the upcoming sequel, user?

Oh, where to begin. From the trailer and interviews it seems to be going a different direction which is both exciting and worrying. It would be nice to see more people sincerely doing this genre justice in different ways. On the other hand, Del Toro isn't directing. That's a real loss. But if he truly has faith in DeKnight then I guess I will too. They've been very frank about how it will be different which is reassuring in a way. Noticeable things like how much younger the pilots are have been addressed. As bad as it sounds, I give them props for actually admitting there's not much practical effects. They did say things get serious too so that's good.

Of course, there's plenty of negativity (and bullshit) being peddled around. No, the Jaegers aren't doing flips n shit. The only kick is a reverse roundhouse from Saber Athena. I just don't see them being too fast or lacking impact/weight in the trailer. It makes sense for them to be at least as fast as Striker Eureka (and they honestly don't look that fast). As for weight, I'd suggest people to watch any of Gipsy Danger's punches flying in the air and pause before it connects. Without sufficient visual information suggesting resistance, the weight is not as clear. Compare that to Gipsy walking as the sheer mass of the ocean tries to resist. My point is the actual hits in the trailer do have weight, especially with Obsidian Fury. Sound design is also an important factor and the trailer has music blaring. There are plenty of low angle shots but some speak of it like there were none.

I was unsure about the designs but I took my time just looking at stills. I'm pleasantly surprised at how much detail Gipsy Avenger has. Obsidian Fury's sleek, arrogant and very humanoid figure (quite Eva-ish) is the perfect next-next-gen Jaeger, the Striker of 2035. That moment of them crossing blades on the ice just felt straight out of Ultraman. That's a thing I'd like to point out. While Del Toro cited mecha anime like Patlabor and Tetsujin 28, DeKnight mentioned Ultraman, Johnny Sokko and Space Giants, all of which are live action tokusatsu. Take that as you will. Now look at how Gipsy's sword is actually reacting to Obsidian's armour. Notice how the former's elbow bends inward as the sword cuts into the armour. Gipsy's arm is still moving but the sword's energy has been transferred so the sword can only slice against the "wound". Only after the sword is free can the elbow fully extend. That is how swords behave when you don't stop after the hit. Or when Obsidian's weapon glances off Gipsy's pauldron. That's what plate armour does best. If this doesn't show impact and attention to detail, what will?

If one is so desperate to find something good there's still the kaiju. They're a definite improvement from last time but it's curiously rare to see them mentioning that. I admit the drivesuits look silly but I think it's mostly because they don't have a single piece chestplate. In shots like your pic where you don't really notice it, they actually look good. I like Boyega's lines and delivery too. My real worries lie with the narrative and cinematography. Honestly feel like I should be more negative but I'm looking forward to a second trailer that would sway more people.

Jeez, this is what happens when you egg me to talk about Pacific Rim. It's just catharsis at this point.

Was Joss Whedon a mistake?

nerds were a mistake

They mutilated it. So much for hope.