Who will regress back to liberalism first?

making slavery illegal is pretty authoritarian

...

i know that
i should have clarified that by "good things" i meant some of the socialist achievements of the U.S.S.R not just "anything good that happened while communists were in power"

Mouse cuck was a libertarian just months ago, so definitely him.

Anti-book man will kill himself first though.

According to the Labour vouchers videos he does read

...

Muke has said numerous times that the achievements of the USSR are admirable, its just that it wasn't really socialist, no matter how "good" they did.
Badmouse isn't an anarchist anymore. He is now just a general Libsoc.

Mexie

He was a ancap almost two years ago you stupid nazbol

I only know Muke from that one debate where he got destroyed by three trad retards, and I remember clearly how, with just some small pressure from them, he went on from being a "pro-violence Leninist" and became a "look at Sweden!" type of dude within minutes.

This is how you know who will chicken out eventually. It's easy to be as radical as you want when you're in college and you just hang out in groups where everyone agrees with radical assumptions without further inquiry, but once you're thrown in a scenario where you're the minority (or even alone) and people get to interrogate you about your ideas consistently, and you realise how full of holes your worldview is, that people usually just start moving towards the center and calling it "maturing".

You know OP is a leftcom.

He stared reading after that debate. Since then he's gotten so much better.

What is it that they have been doing that's liberal?

muh terrorism

Badmouse I don’t think will become a liberal. Muke though if he doesn’t read some Stalin and Lenin, he’ll become a socdem.

Obviously badmouse. He is either completely theoryless or trying to appeal to people who are completely theoryless. I think xexizy will end up a tankie in the end.

he's on the edge of leftcommunism. what did you mean by this?

...

when did that happen?

Its not that bad tbh. Easily the least retarded of stalin's works.

It's true he didn't do well in that debate but you're straight up fabricating shit about 'look at sweden'

Badmouse has hella better praxis tho, the guy is a card carrying IWW member.

...

Why do people here think muke will become a liberal/succdem? Right now he seems to be in a phase where he's thinking about socialism in a very vague abstract sense, as something really far into the future. He wants to get as close to Marx' view of socialism as possible, so for him socialism (the only goal that is important) is necessarily stateless, moneyless, almost completely global, has no trace of commodity production, and no law of value (whether or not that's the most accurate interpretation of Marx is another discussion).

This view of socialism seems to make it very hard to actually be involved in politics, as any short term goal is just social democracy, just another way of managing capital, etc. (demanding higher wages isn't socialism, nationalizing an industry/natural resources for the benefit of the people isn't socialism, co-ops aren't socialism, a nationally planned economy isn't socialism). I don't know if leftcoms turning liberal/succdem is a common thing, but I could imagine that having this view (that the only thing that matters (socialism) is so far away and that any short term action is ultimately futile or might even prolong capitalism) might become depressing after a while, so you pick up socdem, demsoc or even ML to have something to fight for in the short term and have goals that may actually be achievable in your lifetime.

Why?

...

what is his most retarded work? I might read it

You're a fucking loser if you give up a worldview you consider to be true just because it's 'depressing'. The state of the world doesn't depend on how you feel about it.

I think you can keep the same or a similar worldview but reconsider which goals you think are achievable (in your lifetime) and worth fighting for.

muke will eventually be a leftcom or a tankie. He can't hover between the 2 positions for long.

Muke never hovered anywhere near tankie. He's used to be pretty on the fence do with ML's vs Trots, but now he seems to have moved away from Lenin altogether.

Economic Problems In The USSR

We don't reject class struggle and short-term gains, only turd-worldists do this because muh white ppl. We just recognize that they don't do away with capital and that they can't be our end goal. Stop trusting memes.
True
Wrong

I'm 100% sure it happened. I won't listen back to that horseshit and come up with a timestamp for you, but it happened.

I watched the debate live, shitposted about it on leftypol as it happened, that was not said.

Mexie

Why would they?

I should have made it clear that I don't mean that all leftcoms look at it that way. Or even that most leftcoms look at it that way. But I have seen that tendency more among leftcoms than any other group of communists (but I have never met a leftcom in real life so these might just be a special kind of shitty internet meme leftcom, what do I know). I do think those kinds of leftcoms might have a greater potential to become socdems than other socialists though.

PRO MUKE GANG
PRO MUKE GANG
PRO MUKE GANG
PRO MUKE GANG
PRO MUKE GANG

his new profile pic is much sexier use that

Is that a hammer and tooth brush on the hat?

cuckxeizy or how his gay ass name is spelled

idk why anyone in this thread is saying mexie, she's past the age where people would turn liberal already.

hey Jason

But she's a girl XD

+ she has actually read capital

its a toothbrush and sickle

isnt it sad that it is considered an achievement among leftists to read kapital?

bad mouse profile pic has that too.

Is it like a meem?

Not really, Capital is very hard and shouldn't be forced on everyone who takes interest in leftism. It's a study, not a read. Only those genuinely invested should consider reading it, and even then you need loads of background to properly understand it.

They are old, long and dry tomes with confusing terminology, it's not surprising at all.

Have you read them?

...

yeah cause a common anti-communist argument is that you don't get to own a toothbrush

My money is on badmouse.

he needs to read. At least muke has read the basics.

At least he can read, unlike badmouse.

When will muke read capital?

When will you?

I have read volume 1.

you havent read kapital if you don't own and read original GDR Dietz MEW 23

That sinking feeling when everyone is a liberal, including Marx, especially Marx, the dirty succdem.

just came here to say xesisxixy is clearly a front for an alt-right persona

I actually have that book. Inherited form a dead commie uncle. Im not a Leninist but it was ok. Probably the only Stalin I will ever read tho.

He has also made videos on local labour struggles and shills constantly for the IWW. Pretty cool tbh. He should do more of that

What was he like?

Never met him. He was a member of the local Communist Party during the 60s and studied art in East Germany. Got depressed after living there and in the USSR for a while. My grandmother has a letter he sent her where he pretty much says "the workers paradise is no paradise".
Married a daughter of a Red Army commander tho. His only son joined the Danish air-force after his death and is a big NATO supporter. Over all, pretty sad stuff.

...

Didn't Eastern Marxist converted to Liberalism. Any reason why?

He didnt know what Marxism was and was shocked to find out it wasnt just Social Democracy with a cool aesthetic.

He was always a liberal shoppin in the ideological super market. like you

Muke of course. One altercation with Jason, a leftist who is much more grounded in his positions (even if they are wrong), and he now hates the left. Hmmm.

He never said he 'hates the left' you retard, just tankies.

Name me a tankie that rejects Marxist theory.

...

All
of
them

Literally Jason. He openly says there were predictions that Marx made that he considers to be wrong.

Was the "bad theory, bad feels" text in Jason's original video, or was it added along with the music and the images? It's fucking perfect.

Did he still support communism after that?

Boy do I have a place for you.

wow god forbid someone say predictions Marx made weren't realised. doesn't mean he rejects the theory itself, you can work from the same logical, theoretical base and draw different conclusions based on observable reality.

WOWOWOWOW

He died literaly the day he came back from the USSR in a dock accident so I really dont know. His wife moved then to Denmark where she raised his son.

I has the clover flairnon my phone, dont know why

but saying you reject tankies means you reject the left?
You see where this is going, right?

Yawn

Badmouse
Muke is going to become an armchair

Badmouse is already almost liberal. Muke is on the edge of leftcom, but he got assraped by finbol so I bet he be drown to back to the non overly authoritarian marxism-leninism, aka "leninism"

Seizing the MOP is not the same as terrorism. It may be called terrorism, but it's not necessarily terrorism and terrorism is a much broader category. Violence meant to intimidate and scare people is terrorism and doesn't help because of its necessarily random appearance. If people see a group randomly enacting violence they're going to fear them, not see them as liberators. And in a lot of the world people don't see the difference between workers and owners, so only targeting owners isn't going to look like targeted violence (except to the bourgeoisie who are onto your game and will immediately start making the line blurrier to frustrate your efforts).

Being pro-terrorism or even just ok with terrorism as a mater of principle (rather than judging an action on its material contributions to the cause) is some of the stupidest bullshit I have ever seen in my life, and probably exclusive to dumb edgy teenagers waving a flag to feel different and special.

did we watch the same video?

nice red text nerd

who are you even replying to

...

Someone who fucked up and deleted their post twice

Holy shit. Posting an image from the clipboard literally just crashed my fucking browser. GG codemonkey.

im too insecure to admit that i fucked up so i wont bitch

There are people that study Marxism for years and years and will still argue with each other. I honestly feel kinda bad for muke here, because if you're going to discuss Marxism you have to assume someone else has a different interpretation than yours. If he's not gonna get used to that, then he'll become a rightist soon. Sectarianism has been around forever, and you think he would understand that better having been on this board.

*extremely "my opinions are just as valid as yours" voice*

They've both only been going more ultra-left tho. Like if anything it's the e-tankies who've historically been going lib. Remember "Eastern Marxist"? Around a month ago he became a proud neoliberal who believes in "evidence based policy" after getting into arguments about value in the USSR with Twitter leftcoms who lectured him on Marx.

u wot m8

Badmouse thinks kulaks deserved it.
youtube.com/watch?v=erLtGnLuOso

7:53

I meant to say they're both going further left and that Muke is entering ultra waters, so that's poor wording by me. Badmouse though is going leftwards too. As an example I remember him defending Venezuela months ago on the basis that it was socialist and thus deserves our support and then recently he made a video saying it isn't, using very Marxist understandings to do so.

I wonder I send badmouse value price and profit as an audiobook he will become marxist.

Give me one type of leftist (that's not a socdem) that doesn't think kulaks or any other type of property class should be suppressed or killed if necessary. Even leftcoms think that's necessary (historically leftcoms supported other things like Kronstadt as well).

Another example of him being somewhat ultra is his take on UBI, in which he opposes accepting its recent surge in popularity and that workers shouldn't accept it because it's bourgeois compromise.

Maybe. He's a legacy anarchist. I.e. it's a holdover from when he was ancap.

yet he still thinks socialism = workers ownership xD

Neither.

What did he meant by this? 🤔

Hey Xexizy?
READ BORDIGA

EVERYONE READ MUKE

xexizy stop browsing this shithole

fuck off liberal

I googled "bible hypocrisy" and grabbed an image. Calm down.

At least if he ever wrote anything it wouldn't have a ghost writer.

Also Jesus would probably be a noguns faggot, which is the only way guns are relevant to that context you sperg.

Not anymore. Hes just a libsoc now.

I want to but at the same time then I'd miss quality threads like these

what year is this? what fresh hell am i in?

For real though lad, recall the first question Doug answers on his Holla Forums Q&A vid: youtube.com/watch?v=DccxwJx6XLQ.

I find the Westboro Baptist Church less retarded than liberals high fiving each other with retarded misinterpretations of a bible they never read.

🤔🤔🤔

Muke literally did nothing wrong

AHEM, ladies and gentlemen visiting from twitter…

KIKE NIGGER FAGGOT

That's what I thought.

Leftist Twitter is fucking awful.

Twitter is fucking awful.

Yeah, but leftist Twitter is particularly bad.

go the fuck home

what's with all the shitposting ITT?
fuck this thread.

How to know you can disregard a post

how to know you can disregard a post

I genuinely don't know what you fags are even doing
Are you unironically nazbol or is it just a carte blanche to shitpost as much as you want

if you don't know what us fags are even doing then

go the fuck home

...

Anti-idpol is important but it's gotten so out of control that now if someone mentions race or gender at all it's REEEEEEEEEE GET OUT IDPOL SCUM LIBERAL

Is it just me or does muke almost exclusively tweet shit like

as it should be. idpol is nothing but a time waster

That's how you get clicks.

He tweets other stuff but now he mostly tweens that stuff because of the drama.

Well, that's not too surprising after the reactions to his last videos..

...

I'll give you one guess

what the fug

Xexizy for sure, Bad Mouse will be after Xexizy, but Bad Mouse will be maybe about a year after M(P)uke

The fuck is he doing lel???

hey, paying that 11 dollars is a rather big commitment for some sadly

BEARED.COM

Yet they can afford ushankas and posters and other lifestylist crap

Sargon is /ourguy/ now

...

Not implying that at all. Commenting on how they manage to spend so much on other shit to get attention and less on anything productive

Could you please demonstrate where the IWW has done anything other than engage in meaningless solidarity proclamations and identity politics crap recently?

combat youtubeism

I get the meme potential here but "the right wing is bad and we're good because we're not the right" is just the democrat line on politics

lmao

Bad mouse is basically all ready a liberal. At least muke can read.

if anything muke is going left towards left communism.

Why is everyone saying BadMouse is a liberal?

He litterally can't read and he is one of those socialism = worker ownership of the means of production XD fuck hiearchy type anarchist.

...

...

If Socialism isn't when the MoP are seized by the proletariat, what the heck is it? I asked the question of "what is Socialism" a few weeks ago on here, and I got several different answers, so I'd be interested to see what you have to say about it.

I've never watched her videos, what's wrong with them?

Lmao, read a book, socialism is the abolition of private property, commodity production, markets, classes and destroying the machine that is the state

tankies won't agree but I would say abolition of commodity production.

Idpol liberal.

Communism is the absence of wage labor, private property, money, and the value form. Worker control implies there's still a working class, and that class relations have not yet been abolished. DoTP is meant for transition, it isn't the actual goal of Socialists.

Bet she has read more marx than you

Mark Fisher didn't call it the Vampire Castle for nothing.

And instead of looking for the exit Muke seems to be receding deeper into it's corridors.

youtube politics always seemed like self-indulgent wank to me, so i know next to nothing about badmouse at all, but wasn't he an ancap or something a year ago? but muke is, what? 18/19 years old? and at university right? i mean, i'm sure he's really into whatever it is he's into right now (and was really into whatever he was into last month) but let's be real here. we've all met this guy. some of us have even been this guy. He will do, say and believe whatever a) helps him fit into whatever social group he's trying to be part of and b) gets him laid and c) was in the last book he skimmed/video he watched. usually in that order of priority.

right now he seems to be in that phase where he was to redeem himself with his new friends and prove he's left the rival clique behind. the fact that it's "politics" isn't really relevant, since politics at that stage of life is almost exclusively aesthetics and hobbyism. it'd be the same if he was one of those guys who was really into japanese cars but then wanted to be with the group that was into european cars so he had to go out of his way to trash subarus or whatever. that would ironically probably be more genuinely political too.

Damn, I miss Mark.

So… Communism?

bad mouse was an ancap until some ancom made a responce video to him and he slowly became an ancom. The anarchist who made the responce video is now a marxist.

That refutes the claim she is an idol liberal… how?

I think muke might be legitimate though. At least where I am being a marxist doesn't make you more popular, quite the opposite. I can't imagine its that much different in the UK.

idpol, Maybe. Liberal, No.

who

it's never about being "popular" broadly, though that can sometimes happen depending on the hobby. it's about making yourself more appealing to the particular social group you are/want to be part of. nobody thinks evangelising for subbed anime and being a huge japanese culture nerd makes you "popular" but people definitely go out of their way to do that shit if it increases their standing with their weeb friends

youtube.com/user/AnarchistBlackRose/videos

youtube.com/watch?v=vum0-y47cvw

It's amazing how much you can talk about someone while knowing nothing about them, eh?

Nazbol gang are Zardoz fans? Sean Connery in a loincloth is Nazbol.

She's a liberal. A quick look in her follow list on twitter is a dead giveaway. It's not as thought we don't have other "I'm a leftist not a liberal, honest" types from that clique posting here, either.

yes, it's amazing how experience with similar people in similar circumstances over many years gives you a basis from which to extrapolate likely motivations and outcomes.

it's also amazing how every generation of teen/student radicals thinks they're unique and it will be different this time and we're really serious this time, man and it's not just a phase dad. you know, there's definitely a chance i'm wrong and he and people like him will go on to be serious players with coherent politics and a will and ability to organise. in fact, i'd love to be wrong. but i wouldn't take that bet.

Into the trash it goes.

Muke is already a liberal because he has taken attacks on his politics as attacks on his identity and fragile ego.

When these attacks become "too much" he will leave the left because his feelings have been hurt one too many times

Wouldn't what you described be Communism? See what I meant when I said I keep getting different answers when I just ask what Socialism is? I guess this is a contentious subject, as the whole hubbub with Muke and Unruhe was because of this disagreement on the definition of Socialism.

nicely put. agree.

you're describing communism, not socialism. read a book

Socialism is communism. Take off that flag.

0/10 and not even cute

Did xexizy actually go whining to his twitter orbiters to brigade the board because somebody said something mean about him? Did he actually not only link to fucking Holla Forums on twitter, but for that reason? jej holy fuck im actually feeling a little sorry for him

After this thread, liberal has no meaning.

And I have also learned that membership in the IWW is lifestylism but having a Maoist vlog with memorabilia and airsoftguns is tots not lifestylism. The fuck is going on here? Why has the board sperged out?

Underrated post

e-celebs are a mistake
having an opinion and putting your face on it does not make you a contributer, it makes you a faggot

I blame America

It is. But who cares about the labels.

Fucking faggot tankies are taking over

super relevant right now

it really is true though.
let's wait for the next big elections and we'll see all the anarkiddies fanboy about some social democrat. again.
just to right after that see you guys run off into denial. again. you guys never change.

Face it, the world isn't ready for the revolution yet
We might as well bide our time and try to put less awful faggots into office

lol ok dude.

ML leaning people are like 10%, and straight up tankies are probably no more than 5% of this board. How can you think tankies are taking over? Tankies get shit on in every thread. No matter what a thread is about people find some way to declare how stupid they think tankies are.

also fuck having a socialist revolution if it's not going to achieve socialism in the end. it will be another fake banana republic like Venezuela, late USSR, Cuba, etc.

Replacing the hierarchy with another very similar hierarchy is not Socialism, it will never be. Autocrats will never know how to Socialism, Workers will know.

...

It's the "socialist" (autocrat) revolution. In this case. A false calling. I'm not fighting for a "boss" so he can have his way. I fight for myself & my friends, for our labor. Period.

...

"""leftist""" twitter is nothing but LARPing liberals

Not really, no.

Dunno. BadMouseProductions? Xezizy says he thinks you've gotta have vanguard political party to make sure there's a smooth transition from socialism to communism. That sounds pretty Marxist-Leninist to me! BadMouseProductions from what I know's got more anarchist leanings so he's prolly gonna regress back to SuccDemism just like a post-revolution society's bound to regress back to capitalism without a state.

read dauve

Thesw tankies really is something extra. The way the use the term liberalism is exactly like the alt right and the sceptix use the term regressive left, or even cultural marxism. But at least the alt right, as shit as it is, is a product of the times. Tankies cling to extinct ideologies from the past century. Surrounding themselves with ushankas and propaganda posters. And then they have the audacity to call everyone else utopian and lifestylist.

dont. communization is bs

Even an ancap """revolution""" would be authoritarian. Not that one would every happen, y'all are nothing but keyboard warriors, but still.

Funny because Muke is legitimately the only guy I know who owns an Ushanka. He also made a video where we walked arround the suburbian neighborhood with his face covered and a red flag.

BadMouse kinda grew on me, he's not a faggot (e.g. could keep his mouth shut during the Sargon debate and didn't backstab FinnBol) and said the Kulaks deserved it. He's a chill guy whose only fault is to be too emotional for chan slang. Muke has hate boner for Marxist-Leninists since the beginning for literally no reason, other than getting bonus points with liberal girls. Even that doesn't work out, Mexie word rather defend Stalin than buying into his nonsense, as she praised Stalin as a feminist before in FinnBol's comment section. And now he is surprised Marxist-Leninists make response videos to him as we are some sort of bullying clique. Talk shit, get shit, Muke.

Also nice conspiracy about tankies taking over the board. Amazing persecution complex. Holla Forums is filled with Anarchists and Ultras to the brink. The simple existence of maybe 3-4 literate Marxist-Leninists on this board seems to trigger the fuck out of people. Posting this again, because it's true:
greanvillepost.com/2015/05/23/left-anticommunism-the-unkindest-cut/

...

Go back to twitter.

nothing but reiterating what i said: you are liberals.

not going to start an argument about how wrong liberals are, there have been many threads and we discussed it dozen of times, but let's just put it to the record:
you are admitting to being a liberal trying to explain it away as reasonable.
/anarkiddies

Like pointed out:

This is literally Muke, who has been complaining about how mean tankies are constantly ever since he became a crypto-leftcom.

What are you talking about? That thread is still ongoing and hoxa fag is the only tankie in it who isn't completely retarded (but still manages to be wrong)

...

This has literally never been the case and is only the view of left Twitter liberals. Issues like trans rights and feminism are generally accepted as legitimate here, or at the very least there's a balance of opinions. It's only when they're talked about outside of the broader context of class struggle that they're shot down, as it should be tbqh

What happened to Eastern "Marxist" is going to happen to every idiot here who refuses to read a book and abandon social democracy.
mobile.twitter.com/EasternMarxist/status/877272352798769155

He was poking fun at Antifa

He hates MLs because most MLs are unbearably annoying retarded social democrats with a fetish for the color red that dont read Marx.

Yea I love how all the tankies in this thread are going on about everyone they don't like are 100% going to become liberals ANY DAY NOW (people have said muke will be a liberal soon literally since he started) yet one of their own youtubers already has unironically become an actual liberal. How the fuck do they have a leg to stand on here?

🤔
🤔🤔
🤔🤔🤔

fug

A leftcom bluntly stating what they believe to be true and false with absolutely no elaborating? IMAGINE MY SHOCK! Fucking brainlets.

le social democrat meme
You spout Leftcom memes but blame the other side to be thinking in memes.

What do you want me to explain, Cenk? That the military and the fire department aren't socialism?

Xexizy, stop being a pussy

If you got something to say, say it here instead of grandstanding on twatter for meaningless likes by your internet fanboys. Watch him be too scared to post. What a coward.

ccsssht

You can't say that on leftypol man, you'll get banned for being a poltard

it needs it's fanbase help, youtubers are attention whores by insecurity. That's my analysis, no fans no courage to speak up.

I've been posting here the whole time I just don't namefag.

Do you ever go on Holla Forums and talk about yourself in third person, pretending you're not you?

The amount of reductionism it takes to think that Leninism is just "non authoritarian marxism-leninism" is fucking insane. Kill yourself, revisionist faggot

IMO anyone who doesn't make content can't criticise Badmouse or Xex. You might have some minor issues with them but nothing they're doing is that bad compared to the good of getting leftism out into the public, what more do people want?

Libertarian Leninism - is that not just pretty much a never ending NEP? Are you, dare I say it, a /kulak/?

I actually don't, but I doubt you'll believe me.

It's a never ending meme.

I believe you :)

technically all thoughts are memes

Fuck off Mao. Everyone knows that you are petty-bourgeois revisionist scum.

...

This is the same bullshit as claiming people who didn't vote have no right to complain about the actions of the subsequent administration.

This is actually great, thanks

You're welcome.

At least Muke was able to hold is own in the Sargon debate, Cuckmouse was a useless piece of shit. Cuckmouse isn't being bullied nearly as much as he should be.

I'm just saying people who do nothing to spread class consciousness themselves shouldn't give unhelpful criticism that's just like 'wow he sucks, knows nothing' etc. If Muke was really making super bad videos that would be one thing but even though I don't agree with him on everything, he's doing his part to rep us on YT.

Do you think no-one here is talking to the people in their lives? I understand what you're driving at, yes, propaganda and outreach are important and difficult. So let me ask you, would you tell someone to watch Muke's videos as a substitute for a leaflet, book or other media source? If the purpose of Muke's channel is conversely affinity building, okay, but then he's not really spreading class consciousness in preaching to the converted, is he?

Half and half. It's not bad to have people out there who introduce our illiterate youth some basic socialism. But then again, this whole thread, and
We should just make a five year plan to build more Finbols.

Voting for a viable social democrat is fine if there's not much else out there. Don't expect people to want to be martyrs on the altar of historical inevitability - people's lives often hinge on that little more or less welfare state.

I never said I didn't care I just said I found it funny, which it is.

Xexizy would be the first to go lib. He already has the smugness down. All he needs to do is claim USSR was not social- oh wait…

Liberals are generally the oes saying the USSR was socialist, communists are those who disagree.

xexizy can't be far from:

Hes closer to

i've actually seen they both use it whenever it suits their arguments. But more so from libs

REKT

Xexizy. I know you deny being a leftcom but after you finish capital you should read some bordiga. His ideas about vangaurdism and what socialism looks like are pretty close to yours.

I could see both of those happening.

xerox is on the right path. badmouse has never left liberalism

For all the shit talking leftcoms do about armed socdems the logical conclusion of a majority of their arguments seem to be "hope for socdem".

Why would that be the case? They think communism is inevitable.

it's honestly not that bad if you've read some of marx's shorter works first and gotten used to his style