muh communism can't work because the USSR fell is an old liberal chestnut, but what are the best analogues in immediately precapitalist Europe of attempts to get capitalism off the ground, formally or otherwise, that were thwarted by existing power structures?
Examples of early failed capitalist experiments?
I'm also interested in this
there are none capitalism is a perfect and eternal system
- Serf, 1435
bumb because I'm interested
also Robespierre's reign of terror's gotta count
The early french republics and the earlier merchant republics across europe
bump
France is the best analogue, albeit unlike the USSR it never ultimately collapsed back into the previous mode of production.
I'm sure shit like this happened but specific case examples are what we need to deal with idiot liberals.
Merchant republics = mercantilism, no?
If that's true, the best question to follow up with is "why"? Is there something about feudalism that makes it less capable of suppressing competing systems than capitalism, or is it because of specific material conditions, or something else?
Bump
bumping this nigga
The English civil war and Cromwell are good examples
In the case of France it probably has a lot to do with the fact that the French Revolution didn't establish a new mode of production. Unlike with socialist revolutions, capitalism had ALREADY supplanted feudalism as the dominant system. The revolution was simply the ascendant bourgeoisie sweeping away the feudal political structure. Feudalism as an economic system was already outdated and obsolete.
CAPITALIST experiment you dumbasses. Everyone stop posting events that happened before the onset of capitalism ok? You guys ever read a history book? You don't need to read Marx to know that capitalism emerged out of the British industrial revolution and the machinery that started with automation and creation of industrial factories.
Capitalism existed before that m8, it was just primarily focused around trade rather than production. If a Venetian merchant hires sailors to deliver a product to the other side of the ocean, then how is than any different than a British capitalist hiring workers to make a product?
Recommended reading?
against the market by David McNally and marxists.org
But my only problem with English civil war being a failed capitalist experiment is that after Cromwell's revolution had failed. The king and nobility adopted free market policies to keep the bourgeoisie happy
That's not so terribly unlike how bourgeois states in the 20th century begrudgingly adopted some demsoc concessions to labor after similarly disruptive cataclysms, so to my view this actually makes the English Civil War that much more suitable of an analogue.
Not that Robespierre and the merchant republics are totally disqualified, but the English Civil War works even better in that it took place a century or more before feudalism in Europe really fell in earnest.
Check out the revolutionary waves of the early 1800s:
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
Nearly all of them either failed or lapsed back into monarchy.
Holy shit, a capitalist literally turning into a walking mirror image of libshit commie strawmen!
Italy's city states were constantly raided and lived on the edge because of their decentralized power structures made them easy pickings for proper kingdoms and intra-peninsular wars of dominance for trade. It wasn't until they could amass real wealth that they could be stable and even then, Venice, the wealthiest italian city state, died when France invaded it.
In the end laissez-faire capitalism is very fragile if you do not have the means/military to protect it; Libertarian platitudes about "muh small government" are nothing but fantasies. Capitalism and the state need each other. This is why Russia is such a heavyweight despite being a backwards shithole that has a smaller GDP than Italy or fucking Canada: They have military might.
Wouldn't the dutch republic during the 1630s be an example?
JUST
it's hopeless until technology renders capitalist mode of production impractical
Implying it isn't horrifying and impractical already.
Song dynasty in China was early state-capitalism: before the mongols tore shit up.
first spanish republic maybe?
ITT: Holla Forums sucks at history
Nice elaboration
fugging shitpost flag
source pls
Not exactly what you're looking for but every failed business is an example of capitalist failure. Of course right wingers will claim every failure is just further proof that capitalism is good at weeding out the weak. Another example of capitalist failure is capitalism itself, which is failing and is in its death throes
The point of this line of questioning is to come up with counterexamples against "USSR/Venezuela failed, therefore socialism doesn't work." Ideology isn't really helpful on that count.
Would the Haitian revolution count?
Haiti was bound by a colonial mercantile economy, as far as I know. I don't know for certain what kind of economy was favored by the slave revolt, but once they won and the dust settled it eventually became a capitalist country. Of course, the US also meddled in its affairs - but then, they did similar things in Communist countries.
Wasn't Russia essentially still feudal before the revolution?
It's experiments on developing capitalism you illiterate. Just because the industrial revolution was what set it out doesn't mean there weren't attempts by liberals to institute their politics that failed.