How do we deal with classcucked Muslims?

They are people who discuss religion on reddit. What the fuck do you expect? People with brains?

Lol what did you expect

The problem is Muslims are now suffering the same delusions as pretty much everyone else - namely they see capitalism as a non ideology, and just the natural way of things.
Added to this they see communism as a strongly ideological threat to Islam - something that will usurp and outlaw Islam while seeing capitalism as a system that allows them to have their religion.
It's similar to the type of classcuck who thinks capitalism corresponds to freedom.
tl,dr they're morons who uncritically swallow pro capitalist propaganda.

ah yes the classic being stoned to death for eating a burger. So free. So beautiful.

To be fair, communists have been pretty bad to religious Muslims, historically speaking. Hoxha banned Islam outright. The Bolsheviks, while tolerant of Islam at first, participated in mass population deportations of Muslims from the Caucus and Crimea (they also conducted their own "civilizing mission" in Central Asia, banning the burqa and teaching Uzbek and Kyrgyz girls how to read against tradition). Secular and socialist leaders in the Muslim World were often opposed by religious conservatives on the very basis that secularism inherently goes against Islamic teachings. Even Gaddafi is hated by many devout Muslims today.

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/r/islam hates YPG and loves Erdogan, fuck them tbqh

Now they're calling for full-scale invasion of Myanmar to stop the Rohingya massacres.

reddit and islam are like the two worst pseudowoke reactionary groups of people, I can't imagine putting them together

didn't see 'muh ummah' doing much for Yazidis when they were getting genocided by ISIS not so long ago but all the lowkey Islamists are now on the WE GOTTA SAVE THE ROHINGYA train

where's the lie?

repression of organized religion is always justified, repression of the religious not always though

Muslims are one of the few things Holla Forums is right about tbh.

Holla Forums detected

Because ISIS aren't "real" Islam.

thats because they believe yazidis are devil worshippers

Damn, you seriously been fooled.

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Is it just the turkroaches on there that hate the YPG or do all of them?

Most of them hate the YPG. You can make a thread in /r/islam asking them about it though.

Why do the non-roaches hate the YPG?

"Workers' control of the MoP is NOT what da Prophet (PBUH) implemented therefore it's evil!"

reddit.com/r/islam/comments/62d5tn/opinions_on_the_kurds_and_rojava/

tldr: atheist pkk ethnically cleansing peaceful arab and turkish civilians for communism, it's anudda shoah

Because they're liberal/reform Islam I'm guessing

Muslims really are hopeless. shit like is honestly some of the very few actions by M-L states I support.

Err it is about social control though. I'm not sure why you think it isn't.

They're seen as too liberal and too closely linked to Israel and America.

i dont know if trolling or actually this delusional but pls stop

You also have to realize that many Muslims in the West have, like the alt-right, adopted tropes from postmodernism in order to justify their religious conservatism. For instance, they are fully aware that postmodernity is a highly confusing time where identity is something you change repeatedly and no one has any clear-cut purpose except to serve capital and work-consume; in response, they cling to a fundamentalist or sem-fundamentalist version of their religion specifically to avoid this. They will attack postmodernism as evil, secular, and western, but will employ postcolonial theory when it can give them a moral highground or excuse not to change ("westerners only say our religion is oppressive because they're projecting all the evils of Christianity on to us, the Church needed reform but Islam never does"). They fear a Reform/Liberalized Islam, because they know that will spell the death of their "authentic" Muslim identities and send them head first into the PoMo soup. They think they've learned the lessons of western Christianity but they really haven't.

These are perfectly generic, standard, uneducated opinions I encounter everyday living in a predominantly catholic country, so I don't see why our approach should take their religion into account. If anything, these threads confirm how religious is secondary to forming a political worldview and doesn't really deserve a lot of focus.

You should have problems with all religions, and most muslims think of Islam the same way your christian friends think about christianity. It's more of a cultural thing than an actual guideline of behavior.

The fundamentalist and conservative elements of Islam, on the other hand, are the biggest assets of imperialism in the entire region, as they tend to be supported by large Gulf-sponsored networks that have been serving the West for a century, and aiding it against secular, nationalist and socialist movements.

forgot shitposting flag

Yeah the west in the current year is a highly disorienting place for a Muslim to be and to integrate into. Something has to give and I think that is the reason many choose not to integrate.
That doesn't make us dangerous but I do think most are out of place here, except for the ones who gave up a large part of their faith or introverts like me who wouldn't integrate anywhere because they like to be alone.
That said, if the ME wasn't a constant war zone I'd probably go back.

Yes but it is something else, it's not neccessarily linked to the USSR's treatment of religious minorities.
It's changed over the last 20 years, and I think it is that many Muslims, like most other people, have totally bought into the neoliberal ideology. I notice this much more with black people too. Capitalism used to be hated by black people - there were freakish outliers like Don King but most people were strongly anti capitalist and pro socialist. It used to be seen that capitalism was the enemy of traditional values that blacks and religious minorities appreciated. But somehow that got lost despite it now being more obvious than ever.
I just think over time ordinary people have found the world more difficult to make sense of.
Regardless of religion or skin colour.

Which country are you from, mind me asking?

Search in youtube Comrade Hakim he is an Iraqui Communist and muslim, who uplos great vids, on his recent QandA he explains the situation of socialism in the muslim (middle east in general) world.
He also has made probably the best vide I've seen about Rojava recently.

Iraq

The best commies were atheists tbh. Just saying.

Is he an Islamic scholar or just a garden-variety practicing Muslim?

you can (incorrectly imo) make a case for YPG fulfilling some Zionist desire for balkanising Syria but there's absolutely no concrete ties between Israel and YPG and I'm surprised how insistent some people are with this accusation given how there's no actual evidence for any YPG Israel relations whatsoever

but then again, the "You're a tool of the Jews" rhetoric is the sort of retarded shit that everyone in the Middle East throws at each other

There are some who believe Iran is secretly run by Israel, I'm not kidding. They say Iran is trying to re-create the Persian Empire which is all part of a Zionist plot to further destablizie the MENA.

Rly makes you think

Okay.

The level of anti semitism in the Muslim world on the whole is absolutely toxic. Israel is an aberration but most Muslims are on "Hitler had some great ideas regarding Jews" shit tbh.

I remember after SDF liberated Manbij, there was a video of women tearing off their burqas and burning them, saying "curse those Jews for what they did to us" lmao

ciiiiiitation needed

Muslims are always a special kind of wacky with religion but then I look at america and realise they are not so different from the 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧west🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧.

It's not wrong to point that out. Turkey is full of crypto-Jew conspiracy theories, the last remaining Yemenite Jews were specifically singled out by the Houthis to be killed (mind you there's only something like 40 Jews left in Yemen), and nearly all the Jews of the other Arab countries have since moved to Israel or the West (usually due to expulsions or fleeing for their lives during pogroms).

Fuck Israel a million times, but you have to recognize Arabs aren't morally perfect either.

Iran is probably the kindest Muslim nation to Jews tbf. It's probably the only Muslim nation that has a Jewish populace that can live in relative peace.

it's just anecdotal
but:

And Muslims are largely hated in the west, the situation in the ME is the obverse but amplified 10000% so the fact that the sentiments are that more extreme should not be surprising.
If you had a brutal enemy for long enough I think you would be equally hateful. There is no reason for us to be merciful or compassionate to them and tbqh the Israelis feel the exact same way about us. That's war.

And Iran isn't an Arab country. Go figure.

Well, that is a citation.

It definitely sucks. It's even worse knowing how the Arabs are super divided and there's really nothing keeping them together except for shared hatred of Israel. And even then, what the fuck are any of these Arab groups or nations really doing to help the Palestinians aside from holding a rally every now and then? There's probably more solidarity with Palestine on your average American college campus than there is in the entirety of the Middle East.

Iraq's shit is permanently fucked because of your absolutely bonkers Sunni population who love ISIS.

Yeah the Palestinians are a mouse being squashed. It's over. But the effects of that injustice will eventually manifest. It might take 1000 years.

Sunnis did not support ISIS because they wanted the violence and barbarism that came.
They thought that they would actually govern properly and provide security.
Iraq will get over them as the people are used to dealing with adversity and sacrificing together.
The real problems will be for the west. The world saw their criminality in Iraq. They have no credibility any more. Their only authority is by force and installing puppets.
It won't be forgotten by people and people like Kim Jong and Maduro have learned their lessons from that.

Why deal with muslims at all?

I was raised Muslim and can confirm this statement is utter bullshit, wishful thinking at best.

When the Qur'an talks about oppression, it's not talking about the rich exploiting the poor, but antagonisms between believers (Muslims) and non-believers (pagans, Jews, etc.). In no way is it comparable to Marxism or any leftist ideology for that matter.

Islam is not some super-edgy rebellious ideology a lot of western leftists like to think of it as being. It's entirely centered around duty to Allah. Not to mention, the family is a huge part of any Muslim society (and I mean huge). Muslim kids never disobey their parents and are "stuck" with mama and baba for the rest of their lives. It's nothing close to a communistic religion.

I also wanted to add:

I have my doubts about an Islamic Liberation Theology being something which catches on in great number and succeeds in bringing socialism to the Muslim World. I know things are different for Sufis and Shias, but Sunni Islam has never had much of a tradition of asceticism. Having money is never looked at as a bad or evil thing; unlike in western Europe, where the Church and businesspeople were always at odds, the Khilafah was never in contradiction with its own merchants and producers, so you never saw a dichotomy between being rich (so as long as you made your money in a halal manner) vs. serving Allah.

I know that my brothers were always pressured to be successful and make loads of money. A lot of Muslim families pressure their sons into becoming doctors, engineers, lawyers, business owners, or anything where they can make a ton of cash.

We have many Muslim comrades amongst us and uniting Islam and communist ideology was pretty easy in the former USSR (a few hiccups along the way, tho, but it wasn't trouble from the Muslim side but rather the communist party turning to edgy atheist)

Socialism was pretty popular in the Islamic World in the 60s and the 70s, but it went downhill for some reasons i can't clarify. But what used to be socialism that united people, have now turned into Islamism

As soon as Islamism is gone, they will adopt socialism again as a tool against imperialism. Mark my words.

Explain. I'm an ex-muslimah so I understand all the religious terminology.

It wasn't. Socialism in the Islamic World was primarily advocated by intellectual elites. Read through the first plebbit thread posted in OP.

Yeah but the problem I've seen is Muslims seem to think that capitalism is somehow "their" system.
They don't seem to know the history of it, that it was formed in 17th century England. They just see it as the natural order of things. So their is far more resistance to communism than capitalism.

Religion and communism are incompatible. Get over it. Muslims are going to the gulag like the rest if they don't drop their spooks.
gb2leddit, you stupid faggot.

Those fucker belive in marriage with a child you know? I do not advocate for genocide tho.

Too bad Islam is incompatible with the communist society

hmmm

In all fairness, it's not far-fetched to claim the Islamic Golden Age had elements of proto-capitalism. It was still mostly a slave society though.

There's more than a billion of them. Eventually, they will need to be dealt with.

I'm sure a cleverer person than myself could make an decent argument why the Rashidun caliphate is still to this day the most socialist society yet implemented.

Are you stupid? Islam isn't a fucking monolith and there are multiple schools of Islamic jurisprudence all with their own varying interpretations. If you can use the Qur'an to justify capitalism you can certainly use it to justify communism.

The Rashidun era is a terrible example. The common Muslim perception is that the reason for lack of poverty was open markets plus charity, not worker control of the means of production or state apparatus. Plus, we don't really know what actually went down during that time period. A lot of new scholarship is revealing how flaky the early history of Islam is.

There isn't a single madhab which advocates full abolition of private property, feminism, or anything of the sort.

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I'm not going to lie: islamo-chauvinism is one reason why I left Islam. "Islam does EVERYTHING better than everyone else."

It was pretty egalitarian and there wasn't a strict hierarchy, it was more of an administrative body of qualified and well intentioned comrades.

There's plenty of capitalist shit that muslims turn a blind eye to or support that isn't supported by any madhab. Then there's things like taxation which one could argue goes against explicit teaching that say you are entitled to what you have earned, which could equally be interpreted to say that the retention and accumulation of surplus value is haram. There's parts of the Qu'ran that say the acummulation of wealth to the point that it impacts wider society is haram, one should keep enough for a rainy day or two but that's it.
I mean it's all open to interpretation really.
Islam basically encourages entrepreneurialism and self reliance but then look at places like saudi arabia that won't allow anyone outside royal circles start a business.

We don't really know what that era was like beyond stories Muslims have passed down (which are all probably just mythologies anyway, similar to the American exceptionalism trope). I don't understand how a monarchy is socialist, especially not one with a slave society.

Islam encourages a kind of religious Keynesianism more so than it does socialism. Taxation and having the rich "pay their fair share" have nothing to do with actual socialism.

It wasn't a monarchy though. Or if it was it was a constitutional one.

Well I guess apart from the slavery and the money it was kinda socialist :^)
It wasn't Keyensianism either as fiat money was not invented it was a kind of gold standard lol.
It was a flippant remark that I don't want to labour but I was saying it was closest to socialism rather than actually socialist, as we all know real socialism has never been tried.

Are immigrants who come here still islamic? What about second generation?

It was still a state with a clear class character. What makes you think it was run by workers? Slavery existed in that society ffs.

No.

Distinction without a difference. It was a welfare state at the most.

It has absolutely been tried. What are you talking about?

Thats because Yazidis arent muslims.

wat? Is this actually what americans believe or are you being ironic?

un-ironically read hoxha

Any muslim non-porky who doesn't hate imperialism just doesn't know enough about imperialism yet. Just tie it into capitalism and remind them that capitalism didn't exist at the time of the prophet. Easy.

beat you to it fam

dammit!

Their entire fucking religion was founded by an imperialistic war-general good luck lad

Muslims themselves have no problems being imperialistic.

Did you miss the "non-porky" part of that? We're talking about getting your foot in the door talking to a classcucked muslim, and I'm saying the best, obvious strategy is "hey notice how you're all getting fucked by imperialism rn? makes you think…"

I fucking love white sluts

you are a fucking idiot

If you're the guy from the Palestinian thread I wouldn't really be talking rn

no damnit

i need a "i think youre all stupid" flag that isnt leftcom

Fair enough. I mean he's right that Muslim forces have frequently been pitted against imperialism for almost a century now but that's more of a commentary on the drawback of a primarily anti-imperialism centered view than it is a commentary on him being technically wrong.

Anybody that thinks of the victims of imperialism as allies as if those victims aren't imperialists to be themselves (as the capitalist system necessitates some people be) is a worthless fucking idiot and gets the bullet

You are a problem. Get out.

islamic hierarchy is still hierarchy

poor girls

Are you fucking joking? ISIS is way more reactionary than whatever the US does

As a socialist I support the US more than Saudi Arabia in whatever it does

ban this liberal filth

*tips fedora* Religion is merely a symptom.

There are various strains of Islam, and every country that mandates it has various ways of interpreting it.

In Afghanistan if you're a woman and perform adultery, you can get stoned to death while somewhere in Turkey you won't but there will be some other stupid rule made and enforced because of some revelation by some Mullahs. In Iran a woman can vote a drive but it takes 3 women to counter a man's testimony in court, and they have to wear a hijab while outside. And have fun being a Christian/Sunni minority or the other way around in Iran or elsewhere

It has less to do with religion but more how the state handles religion. In any way, the more backwards the place is, the more fanatical the religious mullahs are.

Even in Tsarist Russia, the Orthodox Church was too close with the government and was preaching muh panslavism and was the church of serfdom, hence why Russia was so hated in the 19th century and by Marx/Engels too

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/subject/russia/crimean-war.htm

I'm a Trotskyist m8.

Religion is opium of the masses. It is the problem.

same fuckin thing

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Holy fuck I hate fedora-tippers who don't understand the marxist stance against religion

home.mira.net/~andy/works/atheism.htm