How does it feel that the modern western left has been so utterly and completely co-opted by neo-liberalism that the biggest modern threat to international capitalism is the far-right?
For fucks sake you people need to retake your own movement before you attack us, by ignoring your own problems you're serving as nothing more than pawns for international capital.
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wow so original. never seen this thread before. I bet you thought of this by yourself, you deep, freethinking, individual.
shouldn't you be bombing Assad or having anuddah shoah rallies or something?
And Reddit spacing is only a thing when there's more than one space.
At least you posted a good girl
you've probably already made this thread before. I responded.
Identitarian liberals have been coopted, but the western left largely hasn't.
It's really only a threat to neoliberalism by threatening immigration. Unlike both liberals and fascists, we aren't searching just for a kinder, gentler capitalism. The right will just be used by capitalists like the useful idiots they are if and when neoliberalism ends, and they'll gobble the capitalist propaganda right up, too: "for my country" and "for my people."
Then you should have no problem restating your argument
Who's fighting against corporate plotting to get unlimited free labor that they pay less than minimum wage while undercutting working class people? Who's fighting to get tech monopolies broken up or regulated as private utilities?
Who actually gets censored and attacked by international financial interests? Not you impotent cunts that's for sure.
Yeah, you guys are winning, congrats.
Come back in a few years when your "victory" leaves you still a prole, and you realize the race bullshit was just a faction of porkies manipulating you into fighting for them against another faction of porkies.
Fascist morons don't realize that monopolization is an inherent tendency of capitalism, thinks "regulation" is a sufficient measure to "correct" capitalism's "excesses." Fascists are just class collaborationists. They don't pose any real threat to capitalism, because they are the last defense of the capital class against the real threat: socialists. Also, stop saying shit like "international financial interests" when you really just mean Jews. You're not fooling anyone.
Even if what you said is true the modern anti-capitalist left is utterly impotent and largely funded by international capital and assisted by NGO's.
How exactly are you going to dismantle capitalism if you have no actual power among your own side?
Except modern white nationalism originates from and is still mostly controlled by Holla Forums. And we're by far the most grassroots political organization on the planet.
I don't see big money doing a fucking thing for us ethno-nationalists. We only have any success at all due to being good at internet propaganda.
Certainly not those who want to abolish the minimum wage and keep immigrants as illegal black labour instead of integrating them as proper immigrants protected by the same laws that protect regular workers.
The European Union.
None of these are against capitalism, though.
We. The far-right is financed by them. I can't think of a single European far-right party that had no scandals about being funded by foreign billionaires. You have media empires.
You are not a threat to capitalism. Capitalism does not care about the homogeneity of the ruling class. You are just useful idiots acting as controlled opposition.
Fuck off larp faggot
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Yeah, you memed a billionaire into the white house. The shitposters may be grassroots (though don't be naive, that "anonymous" can be a campaign volunteer too) but the politicians riding your coattails are anything but.
And your program doesn't want to get rid of capitalism, just 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧capitalism🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧, while throwing actual anticapitalists out of helicopters.
Even if that were the case we're the only ones actually fighting monopolies. I mean really what the fuck are you people even doing when it comes to fighting these people?
More of a threat than the modern left that hates poor white men more than Billionaire black women.
Unlike most Holla Forumsacks I think that the problem is a combination of Jews, WASP race traitors, and European nobility and their creepy cult shit.
However Jews are still the largest problem.
Right.. Source?
fuggin forgot to sage
They probably mean sending angry tweets at Google
They're all American companies and thus the EU can't do dogshit to break them up or regulate them as utilities.
That's more Russian geo-politics than anything else
What ethno-nationalist media empire? Are you fucking daft?
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It's currently too small to be potent.
Communist and socialist groups "largely" aren't funded by international capital or assisted by NGOs.
Right now, we can't do so. The right isn't going to do so, won't do so, and can't do so regardless because it's limited to its racialism, nationalism, and its belief in a better form of capitalism (in its own reactionary way).
Do note that you're contradicting yourself, though: being funded by international capital and NGOs would imply having some actual power. We can't be both "utterly impotent" and funded by significant infusions from major financial organizations.
What the fuck does it matter if we're fighting monopolies or not when we want to rip down the whole system?
The left is currently working on purging the liberals from its ranks and develop a solid base. How is that not obvious?
Probably yeah. And then go ahead and advocate an ideology dependant on the total monopoly of power & violence.
Are you delusional? Bannon is fucking out. The Goldman Sachs-wing won.
Just watch. They are trying really hard and making Google incredibly butthurt.
Yeah and that's totally not being pawns of foreign capital. You are very smart.
No? I just actually read. The world is full of well funded far-right rags.
You're an outcast fringe that was essentially hobbled a good two decades before the "varieties of capitalism" thing.
Sorry, this is false. Their MO, their thinking pattern is Leftist. Liberals may consider themselves progressive and even accept intrusive state programs but they do not think in the Leftist manner, liberals are at most utilitarians who favor problem solving and stability. The idpol kids are fully Leftist in mind, soul, word and deed, even if their direct actions are as yet fairly pathetic compared to your golden age. They analyze everything in the power dynamic dialectic and are totally committed to upheaval.
You are just trying to re-center the anti-Capitalist struggle for whatever personal reasons, and this is perfectly transparent to them. No one really has any reason to believe that the core social antagonism is the materially based class distinction any more. And no one cares about your attempt at tactical semantics. Why would they?
The Leftists of today do not have any motivation to redeploy historical definitions long deprecated by both the bulk and vanguard of the movement. This should not be news to anyone who actually reads theory, it was the original Frankfurt School who proclaimed the epoch of the mass society while inaugurating critical theory in response to Stalin all those years ago. The last remnants of the kind of people you imagine yourselves to be were cleared out in the 1970's after Maoism went out of style at the Ecoles and your financiers got sick of shelling out for top of the line lawyers to bail out retarded RAF/Weathermen antics that just pissed everyone off, and by then the Socialist bloc was fully aligning with the Arab Nationalists and PLO, so nahhh.
shhhh, it's working
The alt-right is not in the political mainstream either.
It distinctly isn't. It's actually similar to the right as it situates itself in subjectivity and most of the identitarian left proffers essentialist conceptions of race, gender, sex, and so on.
topkek, the "power dynamic dialectic" sounds like a workout routine. But, seriously, you don't even know what dialectics is, you stupid mongrel.
Keep misusing terminology. It's amusing.
Not this boogeyman.
Clearly not "cleared out" if "we" still exist (this narrative you're churning out isn't really a coherent conception of the left's development and rifts).
What an odd and potted little history.
Right, and what relevant theorists are you basing this analysis on? You think Judith Butler is a gender essentialist? Or is this just your little homegrown party line? In any case it has no serious support, your group of tendencies hasn't been relevant for like 70 years, and you haven't proven me wrong because you can't. It would be quite simple to provide counter examples to prove your narrative that you've been a viable sect all along, but you never do.
The rest of your post has no arguments. You are not some kind of continuity with any real living movement and the only reason this place and it's manner of thinking exists is because you're white men and scared of the mob who hates you.
Says the fascist, you guys have had a few hiccups since about 1945. And the NazBols were a meme in 1992 and have been reduced to literal image macros in 2017. That's 95% of what this is, frog memes and youtube personalities riding a wave of hype generated by the latest crop of stupefied reactionaries. You can criticize /leftypol's/ delusions that it has any say on what happens on the greater left, but then again I can say the same for 8pol and I bet that I can say the same for you.
Adolphe Reed Jr. has criticized identitarianism frequently, although it's not as if I need a citation when I'm demonstrating a view (you would usually proceed further by presenting evidence rather than a citation per se). Your only evidence so far of ideological continuity has been the "power dynamic dialectic" (haha!).
And what is that "power dynamic dialectic" anyway? Did the famous left-wing theorist Arnold Schwarzenegger use it during Pumping Iron?
No. Foucault similarly isn't, yet he's also been used to situate identities as being distinctive and essential (e.g. his concept of power-knowledge used to support identitarian forms of "knowing" which can't be known unless that distinctive form of life is also known, separating e.g. races essentially in effect).
Because you just offer a silly history while misusing terminology. I found it funny, but there was nothing to argue against when someone makes such fatal mistakes and delves so deeply into such a shoddy pseudo-history of the left.
On the contrary, but I now understand that you're a scared little white man who likes to project his fears onto others. How pathetic.
How does far right threaten capitalism in any way? At most it threatens its efficiency with its weird economic models and fetish for war, but capital accumulation and commodity production continue to dictate the economy.
You have no mass movement, no organization and no intellectuals except for a small handful of outliers who were politely considered before, but now run the risk of mob retribution for speaking out. Yet you have the gall and arrogance to proclaim all these Leftists are just pretending and in reality comparable to the right. You think they will appreciate your baseless horseshoe-tier smears?
How is this difficult to understand? Pretty much Chapter 4 or 5 I forget of Phenomenology of Spirit, maybe with some Nietzschean overcoming and a few other tweaks.
No it doesn't.
Your analysis is self-serving garbage and backed up by no theorist of note, thus your only recourse is fine comb pedantry and rhetoric. You haven't (because you can't) actually answered the very simple and easy challenge posed, which you ought to be prepared for as it underlies your entire raison d'etre.
Even if so, the overwhelming majority of Holla Forums is. Even Holla Forums is far browner, which is just hilarious.
Not the far right thats for sure, they just want to enslave all the niggers just like the nazis enslaved all the europeans.
European Union.
Venezuela, cuba
I offer someone and you deny his relevance. We can play this citation game endlessly since you have no citations for any of your points (some of which have just been demonstratively wrong).
I've offered how they're comparable. You denied and said you needed a theoretician. I offered my "contrarian" who has continuously pointed out that the identitarian left has based itself in postmodern thought and subjectivism. You deny again.
And "gall and arrogance"? Oh, please. You have the "gall and arrogance" to talk about things you obviously don't understand in the least.
Yeah, no. I've read Hegel's Phenomenology, and there was nothing termed a "power dynamic dialectic" in it (the closest is the master-slave dialectic, but in Hegel that is a parable about the movement of consciousness toward recognition of the other; it isn't some tool you could or would "analyze everything in"). Moreover, you can't just add things conceptually to Hegel like ketchup to your fucking tendies, and then present your total fabrication as evidence of an historical continuity.
And "a few other tweaks." Such a solid foundation for your narrative!
Mere denial yet again. You accuse me of not offering arguments, then you don't offer anything yourself, and you invent your own terminology (as well as misusing actual terminology) which you pretend has anything to do with identitarianism, all without offering any of those citations.
Where's your theorist backing up your "power dynamic dialectic"? How about that silly history you offered of the left? What historian or theorist proposed that specific continuity?
Slavery is uneconomical. That's why the far right is known for longing for genocides, whereas it was the economically illiterate Democrats who were the KKK.
if it's co-opted by neoliberalism it's not "left" anymore
are you one of those people who think our only position is "muh tranny bathrooms, more female CEOs"?
also, this "far-right is a threat to capitalism" meme is getting real stale now, you put the little political influence you had and put it all behind a zionist boomer neocon
You need union power to do that kind of stuff, and right-wingers have been busting them for decades.
Tell that to america prisons. You literally have slave labour, its in your constitution that slavery as punishment for crime is fine. And Hitler did slave labour too, both jews and other europeans. He started really turning up those gas chambers once it became clear he couldn't win, so he wanted to make sure the jews didnt come back.
This is amazing. It hadn't really occurred to me how bizarre this line of yours is until this thread. On reflection, it beautifully encapsulates your disease.
Do you have ANYONE else besides Adolph Reed? What theory did he contribute to? What movement follows him? All he said, as far as I can recall, is claim today's Left were just neoliberals and said economic concerns come before identity sects. Yet no one cares, nor do they care that you happen to personally think "postmodernism" is bad, or the rest of what you've seemingly cobbled together from the Holla Forums ideology.
You actually are in this much denial of what the actual Left is and has been, or are purposefully obfuscating in a misguided (and completely theory-free) attempt to re-appropriate the term "Leftism" from the actual Leftists. Who have a very long and storied and continuous tradition of intellectual activity and popular struggles. I'm sorry but, they, namely, the LEFT, are the ones who define themselves as the Left. There's countless books on what it means to be a Leftist, indeed, grappling with that very question sums up most of the literature.
You're the one claiming Verso is essentially a right wing publication house nigga hahaahahhaa
You think the Leftist intellectuals haven't agonized over all of these questions, such as the place of Marxism and the socialist states, socialism, and all of this, long before you were born? And furiously debated them over all these years as they lived and breathed the movement, transformed along with the movement that transformed them? That's what theory IS, it runs along with praxis, with history, with the struggles. That's Leftism. Not your snowflake arbitrary mixed bag whatever you pulled entirely out of your own recta.
Leftism is not just rando faggots who got kicked off every other Left platform on the internet only to turn around and decide the reason was not because of their inherent faults and that they were a detriment to the real movement incapable of self-criticism. But rather, that only THEY know what the words REALLY mean and everyone else, namely, all of the actual theorists of the Left, has just been WRONG for 4-7 decades. LMAO
You are one tedious buffoon. You've failed to address and ignored how embarrassingly wrong you were about every single concept you spoke about and how your own history of the left was based on something you completely invented.
I don't understand your obsession with names. If you want more names that badly, it's relatively easy, as Gilles Dauve, Tiqqun, and Fredric Jameson are also well-known critics of postmodernism and identity, but, again, this is a pointless game because we're not arguing about anything but throwing out names. All you have left is denial because every solid point you've offered has been refuted, like your "power dynamic dialectic" genealogy of the left. Tossing around names shouldn't matter, but you only seem to think in terms of names and personalities like any boneheaded Nazi. It's hilarious you thought this point was something I personally cared enough about to write a whole mini-essay about "the left," though.
Oh, and I guess I'm done here since the last idiotic point you wanted to make was apparently about the theorist thing again (lel).
Really bothered you didn't it? You can't stop saying it. Going to keep using that one. So precious are you about your rigid nomenclature, yet you are trying to go revisionist on what Leftism even means.
Finally you get around to dropping some names.
Like I already said, an outlier, an old OLD school Marxist who was tolerated and maybe considered by some for a different take in the 90's but overwhelmingly ignored. What influence does he currently have, where are his conferences? Who next, Hobshawm?
Journal, not an theorist. Can you show me their articles supporting this line that their comrades aren't actually Leftists?
Literal Leftcom.
I'll raise you again: Fraser, Said, Irirgaray, and on and on and on.
The best thing about this is, despite all your totally shitter shattered attempts at a polemic reply, you've really just gone well out of your way to demonstrate that Holla Forums doesn't even get LEFTISM.
Yeah, you have to.
Oh just names don't cut it when you're making an outlandish claim which you claim is backed by theory. Where are the quotes? The books, articles? The conferences? The actual people of Leftism, the movements who claim these ideas to guide their action?
You have to really stretch it to push your totally absurd falsified historiography. Which takes all of 2 seconds to disconfirm through any number of avenues. All anyone has to do is look to any Leftist publisher, or talk to any serious activists or professors, or even google the Varieties of Capitalism debates or the New Left, May 68, post-Marxism before to the very bedrock foundations of "theory" as such itself with the invention of the "mass society", and so on. It's all there. You have to actively deny reality to pretend this didn't go down.
Whereas I can just drop all the actual BIG names of Leftism, that anyone's even heard of, and it's great because I know you know that what I'm saying is correct. Your only way around it was convincing yourself that I somehow couldn't know this stuff which is why your posts reeked of so much utter desperation.
i want to put my dick in udonge