Marxism Versus Capitalism | Lauren Southern and Stefan Molyneux

this.

Well was there anything you agreed with Southern on at all?

I'm not going to watch a hour long Stefan video. Anybody have any webms of the highlights?

Do anarchists get any mention in these farce debates or is molymeme still asssore after being buttfucked by Chomsky and being made anarchopac's bitch?

what the fuck is this garbage?

This please. I won't want to give him views.

I didn't watch it, I hear 'free market vs central planning' and instantly closed the tab

Why bother commenting then? Has anyone watched at least 30mins before commenting? Or does it anger everyone too much?

this is not a debate against Marxism. Lauren is not representing Marxism

This, mods just deleted this trash

How could you willingly watch this garbage?

No, reddit, nobody can be bothered to watch such a long video with such an obviously retarded premise.

OP is probably an unironic liberal and actually thinks it's a legit debate

Stefan molymeme is a retarded cult leader and the fact that there are people who take his repulsive ideas seriously makes me want to lose my shit,

Mein Gotte.

I listen to all points of view, and wonder how everyone thinks politically. You could say I'm more distant from all of it. Anyway, I was simply looking for what was agreeable, and what was not.

Less than 7 minutes in and I've had enough.

just read marx you dumbcunt
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/

You and I both know this isn't true.

Yea no thanks OP, I don't need any more YouTube personalities butchering leftist theory they learned from watching people who never read Marx. I'll just stick to reading Marx myself

Actually, I've become more interested in the response I've gotten, as it is what I would've expected from /pol before a typical ban from them. Thoughtless anger filled posts, and request for ban. I thought this side was a bit less emotional, but it doesn't appear so.

I don't find anything unbearable from any side, so I can relate at all. I figured people would calmly point to pros and cons of the debate.

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Without two sides, there's no debate. It's just three right-wingers debating their own understanding of "Marxism." Even if you're honestly trying to understand both sides, watching that debate is totally pointless.

Are there good debates between well known YouTube personalities on this topic? And does good mean your side winning, or do you care? If you can point to a good YouTube debate, I will check it out.

Pick one fam

There's a debate between Academic Agent and Jack on the Labor Theory of Value.

I'm not personally angry I just have better ways to spend my time tbh man.
One thing you have to understand is leftist theory is very intense and requires a shitload of reading. We get inundated with so much bullshit from people who don't understand leftist theory, and misconception, ect, that we get salty. No ones particularly pissed or lazy it's just a waste of time to us, especially considering its involving two people who chronically Mischaracterize us

Calling it a debate is generous

It should have been Varg and you fucking know it.

That was more a lecture with a petulant child in the audience than a debate.

Okay, I found it on YouTube and will check it out.

It definitely falls under "Good because we win" though - but bear in mind it's between a Marxist and an alleged academic who claims to have written books on Marxism, and an expert on his Marx. It's good if you enjoy someone getting bullied and called out in between knowledge being dropped.
Angstreich is definitely leftypol GOAT debater.

What about this one:
youtube.com/watch?v=z6gB3gA9UZg

It's on Sargons channel. Is that a problem? If you had seen it, do you think it was fair?

Imagine being this economically, historically, theoretically, and probably literally illiterate.

I only heard the highlights because it's four hours, but it becomes apparent how dense Sargon is when he claims that Latin American anti-union hit squads backed by Coca-Cola aren't real capitalism.

Different user, I had heard excerpts from this debate - to my knowledge, the majority of the debates are much rather a question of the rhetoricians involved than an academic disagreement. Most of these disagreements are hashed out within an ideological context, so the fact that ofttimes many people get heated can only be expected. Of all of the debates that don't devolve into unrepentant sophistry and consistent polemics, I'd recommend the Foucault/Chomsky debate, the brief exchange between Chomsky and Zizek, but if you were looking for a leftist/rightist debate - Other than Chomsky/Molyneux, most of them turn into immaterial shitflinging sessions betwixt ideologues

I honestly think Southern did make Stefan look stupid somewhat, though I don't think anyone would get that far in the video do to their apparent anger. I mean Stefan didn't even want to answer the question as to if it's okay to sell a child drugs. It was rather strange from my point of view.

I had assumed from your side of things, the way Stefan preformed so badly would've been mildly amusing. I guess there is nothing about it your side likes at all. Even if to me the whole thing was a shit show for both sides.

Into the trash it goes.

Why respond at all then? But okay, thanks for telling me I guess.

So was Southern playing devil's advocate (poorly I'd assume) for economic planning, or was this just a transparent propoganda attempt at making left-wing opinions look dumb?

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It's a debate between a strawman and a literal retard, what exactly is to be gained from watching this?

We already had a thread

Gee OP, idk why you'd be dismissed

youtube.com/watch?v=TLXZAxmwwXw
Am I missing something? Did she recently become a Marxist? Or is she just larping?

Ah, it's a mock debate. She is larping.

Well a lot of people believe she kicked Stefan's ass, but no one here will even check more than 5 mins it seems.

Both sides are larping, really. Southern is larping as a Marxist, and Molyneux is larping as a human being.

Southern is playing devil's advocate. People here are calling it larping, probably to dismiss even checking out the video.

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She is literally making the crony capitalism argument as a "Marxist". The video is shit and she is larping.

I feel like a Nazi Holla Forumsyp is less high on ideology than this guy. This is why ancaps are worse, even fascists are less contradictory with the logic of capital.

Peter Joseph tangled with Molyneux? When was this? He's a pretentious dummy who needs to read some fucking Marx, just like Molyneux needs to read some actual philosophy.

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How can you say it's a turd if you haven't seen it, or are willing to go within 50 miles of it?

But really now, I'm disappointed in both sides. You see, it's not that Southern played a perfect devil's advocate, but rather that she legitimately tried to defeat Stefan in the debate, but most don't care because of who is behind it. My point would simply be that I would like to see the same effort from the left, while genuinely trying to win the argument. It comes off as more intellectually honest, even if it's not her field of understanding, because she did try. Both sides should run this experiment.

Overall it is of my opinion that she many times made Stefan look bad. And that in itself was interesting, even if people here don't think so.

I am honestly not impressed with /leftypol or /pol, as both come across as close-minded and arrogant. The price one pays for the emotional investment in a side I suppose.

youtube.com/watch?v=jaP2GJvZlWY

We already had a thread on the exact same video. Anyone who was interested had already watched it and discussed it there. We thought it was ludicrous that you would stage a debate without the opposite side but instead someone pretending to be on the opposite side. It's ludicrous to treat it as if it's a real debate between Molyneux and a Marxist, and most here aren't interested in a fake debate. It's not difficult to understand why people wouldn't care enough to watch people on the right compound their misunderstandings.

Playing devil's advocate is very useful, as it showed the holes in Stefan's logic, whereas a debate between a Right and Left tends to close minds, and apparently does even on the side that isn't involved (in this case leftpol), which is actually to my surprise. That was my mistake, because the hatred for these two from your side closed all discussion as I have seen in this thread, dispite how you try to sugar coat it.

That video is new, and quite interesting from my perspective, and I would love to see the left do the same, and in an honest way. Seriously trying to win from a devil's advocate position.

What part of "We've already had this thread before" don't you understand.
2054941

shit

She's a Holla Forumsack.
They cannot be trusted.

What part of the comments here of people who haven't seen it (90% or so) don't you understand. You also didn't fully address my post, but nit-pick away based on if you personally seen it or not. Also your response to me is rather lacking. My post had so much more in it.

Maybe this one is better.

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It can be personally useful for one's own beliefs to question them as if from the opposite side, but it isn't useful for the side that isn't truly involved in that self-debating because the devil's advocate is the one who is trying to question the beliefs that all involved already hold to be true (and the perspicaciousness of the representation is always a function of advocate's ability to understand the side she doesn't care for, thus it can't function as a real debate we would have a serious interest in; no one here believed beforehand that Southern had a firm grasp on Marx or even left theory in general).

Although we don't like either of them, most of us just don't care about this debate not because of hatred but because we have zero stake in who "wins." It's entirely between the right.

And? Why should I care?

How nice…

I don't think I fit right down the middle, as I have some extreme views from both sides; regardless, I don't consider centrists to be bad in themselves. Not everyone is the same. I suppose what I find bad, is the close-minded and hateful attitude from many sides politically. Can't say I blame you though, as your investment in a side is rather greater than mine is.

You don't need a stake in who wins. It's not always about winning, but hearing other points of view, especially given that some effort in "winning" was made by Southern. If she did convince people to move slightly away from Stefan's position, that is something in itself, and can't be fully know. It's not to say your position will be followed, but simply that minds move slowly to other positions when they are open enough to consider all sides.

You don't have to care. I care what you think, and I care what they think.

We already know Molyneux's and Southern's views. We didn't need to see a debate between them with one pretending to have views she doesn't. She isn't representing the left but her own imagining of the left. I personally can't care about either the issues or the viewpoints when I'm watching a fool fight his friend's imaginary monster.

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By grievously misrepresented Marxism.

There is something uniquely intellectually dishonest about being BTFO by socialist after socialist and having to resort to consulting your ideological peers and having them pretend to be socialists for a debate. I don't get why OP is so surprised people are rolling their eyes and laughing when this doesn't appear to be a case of devil's advocate, but more a case of pretending to have an open discussion.

Is she /ourgirl/ now?

of coursh

woops forgot to remove shitposting flag

She is very pleasing to look at. I prefer her with dark hair, though.

Greentext summary of the topics covered, please?

PS: Has anybody found Lauren Southern's top lip yet? Bitch looks like she was born with foetal alcohol syndrome.

Why are you so upset we do not care about Mollymeme's propaganda broadcast? What point do you believe a literal pretend debate to have? At most it'll show the holes in Mollyneux's logic, but those are already evident to anyone who has ever looked into libertarianism / ancap. Why not just read Marx and gain understanding of actual left wing talking points? Or do you need the spectacle of a debate to process information?
marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/wage-labour/index.htm

View my posts, then view other posts in reply to me, then consider who is really upset. It's not hard to figure out.

This whole thing has been amusing to me. I learned more from the responses than people here intended.

Didn't she get arrested for helping those boat fascists who wanted to literally drown refugees?

I really don't find her that attractive. She's just a generic looking american slag.

He has read Marx, he just tried to repackage socialism too early back during the OWS days. And he easily BTFO molymeme so that stefan had to do some of the worst editing I've ever seen to make his "victory" version for his channel.

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for

because it's our board and you're not entitled to a safe space in it.
The video sucks and your thread sucks even more for expecting people to take the it seriously.

That is one vacant ass look on her face.

Can't make this shit up 10/10.
Just because we don't watch two rightist debate about a topic we know about, and assume positions most if use don't hold doesn'the mean we are close minded. The bad was asked for because your thread is *SHIT*. Simple as that man. Stop deflecting insults as some sort of ideology driven censor.

youtube.com/watch?v=fW6lnmx0ETw