I'm not a Holla Forums and not really that /lefty/ at all in general. I consider myself liberal but publicly identify as right wing for a number of reasons.
Now I'd like to at least give gobbunism/socialism/far-left ideologies a chance to learn about them and see what attracts people.
I've tried listening to some podcasts and read part of das kapital but nothing really clicked or stuck. Most commie YT channels I've taken the time to watch came across as idiots, one with a marxist 'professor' of some US college who seemed to forget that a business owner doesn't only have employee salaries as a cost, but that there are other costs involved as well as risks in starting and maintaining a business. (He called everything outside of salaries profit and "ur getting ripped off xDD")
You can understand that those experiences didn't exactly make me more hopeful of the validity of these ideologies.
Having said that, my main question is can you refer me to some basic literature or preferably Youtube videos that you deem explain or recap your ideologies aptly. If at all possible, nothing much longer than 15 minutes to start with. you could help me with info that sets appart some of the most common leftie ideologies, introductions to whatever your prefer or even analyzations/criticism of right-wingers.
Russel brand's podcast it's called "under the skin". Very accessible
Search "kapitalism 101" on YouTube for a video summary of das kapital
Luke Ross
pic related
Watch video related, its a bit long (only 1:30 hours) but its solid as fuck, and very good for americans. youtube.com/watch?v=T9Whccunka4
Cameron Taylor
How does risk create wealth?
Cooper Gray
Will check out both. How would you say does Russel identify himself as politically?
Unfortunately I'm on smallband now, so I'll have to watch that next week. What's it about? You guys anti-generic libs?
Will give these a skim, thanks.
Jacob Ramirez
We are anti-liberal.
Ryan Gomez
Pic related for anarchism, you can skip memechin though, communism or insurrectionism is what is most relevant around here. For Marxism start with Wage Labor and Capital and Value Price and Profit.
Adrian Garcia
Hippie with a socialist bend. Im not the guy who posted him, I dont really like him, he has a lot of bullshit about spritualism.
Samuel Butler
Comrade plz
Henry Russell
Liberals are right wing, retard.
Josiah Collins
Contrary to the impression one would get from no book muke, we read around here. The works of Marx I mentioned and the "Classics" section of the image are short, relativly easy, and do cover the basics.
Zachary Roberts
OP is a newfriend who says his attentionspan is about 15 minutes.
Dylan Thompson
Elaborate? I hear this often from far-left radicals, even though most probably just say it because it's cool and they're young.
thanks, but also this lmao
I'm going by the mainstream commonly accepted classifications of the political spectrum, no need for a potty mouth.
Of course, but I'm mainly look for an introductory tour around the various ideas floating around before I can decide to invest a lot of time in one specific view or topic, if that makes sense.
Carter Cruz
So? Read for 15 minutes, rest for 5, repeat. Soon you will be able to do it for 20, 25, 45, … the whole day!
Lucas Cruz
Liberals support the status quo and oppose fundamental changes in the social relation. They are capitalisms defenders, who use gay rights and other things as a distraction from the fundamental antagonism, the fundamental mechanism that fucks over all of the world, all of the working people, and deprives the working people of the tools to liberate themselves from other forms of oppression.
Adam Smith
How recently have you listened to him? He's really changed
Lucas Thomas
Been a while I guess.
Jayden Gomez
The world is ending due to climate change and looming nuclear war and the class dynamics of capitalism putting as much wealth as half of the planet in the hands of 8 people, and liberals want to talk about underrepresentation of trannies in videogames and safe spaces! WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH LIBERALS?!
Adrian Torres
Liberals are considered right-wing (as they are) in Europe because we don't see everything to the left of Reagan as communism.
Asher Rogers
I can't say that is what I see after countless interactions and conversations with self-identified liberals. Virtually none of them have a good word to say of capitalism and think of it as the devil that's destroying the world. In regards to the social aspect, the constant barrage of deeply triggering and problematic-privilege and open-borders support makes me doubt they oppose social change, for better or worse.
As far as ending capitalism goes, what is the argument for installing an other economic system to those who point out the numerous times it has been tried and failed?
That's the effect of politics and greedy humans colluding, the same shitty humans would find a way to come out on top in communism, no?
I would say overpopulation in Africa supported by Western altruism is a bigger danger.
I'm European. 'Liberals' and 'left wingers' are generally considered to refer to the same people. On the other hand 'right wingers' are simply seen as 'those racist guys' so there's that. The terms should perhaps be retired, but eh.
Asher Cooper
'Overpopulation' in Africa actually serves a capitalist interest, as it keeps them permanently dependent on western aid - impoverished and indebted.
Juan Perez
Why would we having this discussion if capitalism worked?
Jaxon Taylor
Both of you are wrong, liberals gravitate near the centre, with a slight modification on the spectrum depending if they are liberal conservatives/conservative liberals, basic bitch liberals or social liberals.
Landon Wilson
Depends of the country. In my country the left wing is against the EU. In the UK that most certainly wasn't the case. The right wing all wanted Hillary to win tho.
Xavier Phillips
Not him, but I hate this meme so much, how does one "try" an abolition of wage labour-based economy and where did it happen on a mass scale? People always bring memes like Venezuela and argue this is socialism because they gave out free stuff despite the economy bending over to the logic of production for exchange just like elsewhere in the world.
Jaxson Powell
Liberals are against natural entitlement, so they are not right wing socially.
Zachary Barnes
...
Samuel Green
I want brainlets to leave.
Jayden Morgan
This is a really broad topic, don't get overwhelmed. Start with the basics and then figure out into wich kinds of Socialism you want to look deeper into Books: * Anything by Kropotkin(The Conquest of Bread, Mutual Aid and Fields, Factories and Workshops are a good start.) * Anything by Bakunin (God and the State, Statism and Anarchy) * Anything by Emma Goldman. (Anarchism and Other Essays, My Disillusionment in Russia) * Anything by Murray Bookchin (Social Anarchism or Lifestyle Anarchism, The Ecology of Freedom, Post-Scarcity Anarchism) * Anything by Pierre Proudhon (What Is Property?) * Most of Noam Chomsky (On Anarchism, The Chomsky Reader) * George Orwell's Homage to Catalonia. * Anything by Marx & Engels (Das Kapital,Critique of the Gotha Program, Wage Labour and Capital, Value Price and Profit, The German Ideology) * Why Socialism? by Albert Einstein * Pedagogy of the Oppressed by Paulo Freire * The Ego and Its Own by Max Stirner * Most of Richard Wolff (Capitalism Hits the Fan, Democracy at Work: A Cure for Capitalism, Contending Economic Theories: Neoclassical, Keynesian and Marxian,)
This doesn't make sense when you think of a small business, in which case the "profit" the business owner is making is generally not all that different from the salaries he is paying his workers. However, the failings of capitalism, and where this becomes much more obviously exploitation is in regard to very large corporations, in which there are Boards of Directors. The BoD basically gets a ton of money because of their investments, despite doing no actual work. You mentioned "risk" and think this justifies this process, however consider it is much easier to take risk when you are a multimillionaire or billionaire. This ends up creating a wealth gap, in which the rich get richer, while the poor, who cannot save and make these types of investiments, stagnate, remain poor. A poverty trap Moral arguments aside (although I do think this is fucked up), this situation creates a self-defeating system, an internal contradiction that will eventual cause the system to crash. Bubbles, recessions, and depressions are symptoms of this. When the poor, who are barely getting by, cannot spend money outside of the bare essentials, they cannot stimulate the economy, which is based on growth. In this case, the government either needs to stimulate the economy artificially (as it has actually done, giving out money to people to spend), increase welfare, or bail out these companies. Contrary to this, we seek an economy that is based entirely around use, instead of one that solely seeks to pursue profit. You can read more about use and for-profit economies if you want a better understanding of this.
Now for non-retard answer: one of the key tenets of liberalism is precisely support of the "free market", sometimes more(neolibs), sometime sightly less(Third Way socdem sellouts), but still positioning themselves as more anti- than pro-economic intervention/regulation compared to other economic options on average.
read wage-labour and capital. it's short and marx originally wrote it so normies would understand. you'll understand at least partially the Marxist critique of capitalism.
this dude linked it.
Nathan Hernandez
Hi. You sound like an outrage porn addict, for starters (mostly referencing that macro and the "publicly identify as right wing" things), so full disclosure I don't respect your ability to assess information and context.
This is not a good introduction for you, to the fabulous world of Georgism. Hi, I'm a Georgist.
I believe that all taxes should be abolished in favor of a single huge land tax, with land being treated as a public resource. This would effectively prevent landlords and the like from purchasing land and then letting it sit until the prices rise high enough. It would mean that the rich would own fewer houses and less private ('real') property overall, and have to contribute more for what they did.
One way or another, the value would be claimed for the general populace. The housing crisis (an artificial product of capitalists creating demand by purchasing large amounts of land and not allowing anyone to live on them) would be solved, and with the cost of housing itself greatly reduced, inflation in general would go down and goods would be more affordable.
I'm still fairly new to the ideology, but I think I've roughly covered it here.
John Evans
Aside from leveraging resources for release of debt, what would be an interest to keep a continent empoverished? Wouldn't it make more sense to at least allow them to advance to an industrialized stage resulting in a near endless cheap labour force?
Which country is that?
I don't have a lot of free time and I can't physically maintain the position of my elbows to hold a book for longer than ten minutes, which forces me to listen to audiobooks, reading at a computer is less than comfortable, so instead of acting pretentious it's really not much to ask to try and understand that I can't magically pick out one of the 50 books proposed in this thread, not having any background, not knowing what it's about and how it relates to other literature. All I'm asking for an entry into these ideologies, a summary, some oversight as to where to start and friendly conversation.
Thank you, very much appreciated.
An investment surely is a risk and it is not unfair of them to expect to get their money back with a profit. If you do not offer a prospect of profit, what incentive do wealthy have to invest in someone's business? And if they are no longer willing to invest, how can poor people with good ideas make those ideas a realization and lift themselves up?
I'm not a supporter of welfare state, seeing the effects of it when I grew up in an area where most were on gov support, and the laziness and lack of motivation that resulted in, but isn't that an aspect of socialism, instead of capitalism?
I will, thanks.
I am babu tier, thanks.
I publicly name myself right-wing to make it easier for myself. I'm against the EU, against mass-immigration under current policies and against radical Islam. Those things get me labeled a nazi. The people that respond like that filter themselves out if I just say I'm right wing, the ones that are reasonable enough to still engage in conversation easily look past the label either way.
Juan Cruz
None of this is actually going against the grain on leftypol, although some people are dismissive of people who have these as their primary concerns as they're usually around 10 posts away from having a glorious uprising about human nature, gulags, basig egonomigs, and the proud Aryan race.
Anthony Brown
What is the general concensus on those topics here, then?
They might not be my primary political concern, but they are when it comes to the average left-winger, who seem completely blind to any of the dangers in those three, and prefer to occupy themselves with fighting for the right of 6yo boys to twerk among naked men in dildo constumes during Pride.
How people combine a tolerance for radical Islam with LGBT rights and women's rights is beyond me.
Nathan Ward
That's not the same as "Google is censoring meeeee!"
I never said I liked Google or their monopoly, but that macro looks like it was made by someone who didn't even know Google did this until their retarded racist shit posing as news got filtered, assuming it even did.
Then you should be able to explain why and how you aren't. I don't agree with you on all of those - mass-migration itself doesn't bother me, it's the cause of it (funding Saudi Arabia, intervening in the middle-east, exploiting the third world, and businesses hiring illegal immigrants over natives because they can use their status as leverage to pay them less) that I see as the actual issues. My hope is that you have a reason not based on some chainmail-forwarded picture of a packed boat, and as long as it isn't about 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧anuddah shoah🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 or some hairbrained idea that Angela "multikulti is a sham" Merkel's policies aren't motivated by the preservation of German dominance, you ought to be able to explain yourself without sounding like a far-right tool.
I've not been accused of being a Nazi, and I'm not sure where I'd find anyone I respect who would actually make such an accusation.
Brayden Rogers
...
Jack Roberts
The EU cannot be reformed and is neoliberal to its core, mass immigration does little to alleviate the problems of the middle east and the debate around it is a bit of a trap since the left wing choice was not to meddle in the region to begin with, and radical Islam is largely supported by the West through Saudi funding and is a convenient excuse to clamp down on civil liberties and to create a big other to divide the working class and distract them from the shenanigans of the ruling class. We call these people radical liberals/radlibs here. We started throwing the term around when they tried labeling us brocialists.
Logan Jackson
Two hours a day will finish Capital Vol I in a month. You've been itt for longer than that, so you have that much time at least. Put it on the table or desk before you.
As to migrants, LGBTQWERTY and Islam, this board is 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧diverse🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 in its opinions, anything short of nazi-ism is tolerated, and sometimes even that. Things not welcome are idpol and supporting imperialism.
Re the welfare state, that sounds like a lot of hokey to me. I don't know of any welfare state currently existing that allows people to be comfortably lazy - it's a meager life constantly hassled by social services and other intrusive agencies. Don't mistake forced unemployment and the alienated lethargy it breeds with laziness. The welfare state only ever offers an imperfect last resort for people capital has no use for, it is not the cause of their uselessness.
Re risk and rewards for entrepreneurs, don't buy the hype. To take a risk is not in itself worth any kind of reward - people in a casino create nothing of value to anything, to take an obvious example. Now we do have collectively a stake in making sure that good idea, new technologies, and so on, are implemented, and this necessarily involves trying many things, having some succeed, others fail, and so on. But this in itself tells you nothing about how goods should be distributed in society. It just tells you that people with ideas, technological plans, etc. should have a way to test these out, expend their effort and time to do so, and you can also include a reward mechanism in that to incentivize people to do so or whatever. And then another mechanism to employ those ideas to the benefit of all. To go from this common sense assumption to the idea that all the means of production should be privately owned, indeed that even ideas, technologies, and so on should be privately owned, is unfounded. You are making a leap there that is unjustified. That's ideology blinding you right there. In fact, private ownership of the means of production will sometimes stifle innovation, productivity and growth under certain circumstances, because of a whole host or laws and contradictions governing the workings of capital.
Levi Peterson
russel brand is a fucking moron though
Juan Mitchell
...
Levi Baker
True under the current system, but that doesn't excuse the issues it creates, that I highlighted above.
As an anarchist I see this being done on the community level. The person in question could bring their idea to the community and it be voted on as to whether or not it is pursued. Could also be done in regard to the business, an employee presents their idea and the business votes whether to invest time/resources. I think a misconception about socialism is that these sorts of things can't happen, but that's false. We simply seek to have the profits shared by the community at largely, such that all can benefit, not the board of directors.
A very common misconception, but no, that is social democracy, not socialism. No need for welfare if capitalism and wages no longer exist. Although I do support welfare under capitalism (in general) as a means to allieviate some of the problems of capitalism. Welfare is not our end goal, and nowhere any major communist works will you see welfare listed as a priority. Another example of the sort is gun rights. People think communists are anti-gun, as liberals typically are anti-gun. But we are ADAMANTLY pro-gun.
Grayson Mitchell
Have any more of these scaling warning images? I love them but don't have nearly enough.
Chase Martinez
I gotta say I'm glad that you're the first rotten person I've met here and that the rest has at the very least tolerated my baby tier questions, or otherwise treated me kindly. I guess that's a medal for you for what it's worth.
You miss the point. Not every person is worth engaging in debate. A lot of people aren't open to conversation, either.
I don't see how anyone could claim mass-immigration could solve anything in the Middle East. You lure all the people with the funds to come (likely the more educated/skilled) and leave countries in ruins with the weakest and most vulnerable to rebuild it? Or do you just eventually import the entire population assuming their conflict will be left at the border? At the end of the day it's cheap labour and birth rates. I feel conflicted over bitterness towards radical Islam and the acceptance that 'we' have given them enough reason to want to see us destroyed.
I don't even know what the EU is trying with sub-Saharan African refugees, of which, there are more that are legible for refugee-status than there are EU citizens to pay for.
Ahh, the fresh breeze of an ideological conflict I've never heard of before.
So what would be an alternative that still promotes innovation and allows poor people a way to start a business without capital?
Many people that succeed were thought of as failures or crazy people. A democratic vote would also remove a lot of potentially great ideas to the scrap heap, no? Additionally democracy has it's own flaws, and the majority is susceptible to smooth talkers and at any rate, doesn't necessarily have the insight as to what constitutes good ideas to invest in?
Does this automatically imply an equal share to everyone? I can imagine many would be upset when perceiving their own work (possibly correctly) as more important, skill-requiring or difficult than that of others.
So what happens to those who are too ill or old to work. Generally people that don't work, do they not receive a form of community support that can be likened to welfare?
Based on the core idea that American conservatives hold? (A potential tyrannical government)?
Carson Nelson
private corporation rights amirite?
freer the market the freer the people
let google censor there is nothing wrong with that a competitor can come along and stop them thats the beauty of free market hur
Aaron King
Who is the ultimate theorist of the right ?
Brody Clark
This is actually one of the arguments used against it here. You're essentially bombing the fuck out of a country to make a load of money on the arms market at the expense of the taxpayer (lobbyists and politicians profit, the government makes a loss on the transaction), draining them of skilled staff, importing them to undercut the cost of labour in the first world and keeping capitalism alive for longer by bringing in hundreds of thousands of virgin debt slaves who can now borrow money fitting to first world economies. The only people that benefit from this whole arrangement are the military-industrial complex and their paid up lackeys in government. The nuance here is being against mass immigration but not immigrants themselves, and I personally think the best way of dealing with the debate politically is constantly pointing back to the time when the left was against ME intervention and shouting "I told you so" until everyone gets so mad at us it's etched into the back of their minds forever.
Henry Scott
I wrote one sentence about you in my first post, and you chose to run with that instead of the part of my post about policy. Just because I opened suggesting you were coming onto the board with a feels > reals mentality doesn't mean you have to prove me right. But I'm sorry I was meen. ='[
Then you shouldn't adjust how you identify yourself to avoid them. Stand your ground or don't bother. Identifying as right-wing around most and saying you consider yourself liberal just makes you sound like a "classical liberal" - ie actually right wing, without wanting to admit it to yourself.
Evan Russell
user you're so close to breaking free
Blake Jones
You are analyzing this under the context of capitalism. The idea of socialism is to have NO poor people, no rich, none of that. One of the fundamental goals of socialism is to dissolve the concept of class altogether.
Let me ask you, how is this any different from capitalism? Does the person in question, whether petitioning a loan from a bank, or petitioning investors for money at some sort of pitch not have to adhere to the same things you are describing about my scenario? Do investors not need to be weary about smooth-talkers? See, the only difference between what I am describing and what you are describing is my vote is by a raising of hands, yeas or nays, yours is money. We seek to get rid of money
Yes, and I'll tell you it feels great. I am a biomedical scientist, I live off government grants. The fruits of my labor are knowledge, what I discover helps patients, helps doctors, helps everyday people. I've done dietary studies in relation to diseases. I am absolutely OK with my research simply being distributed among the public, and me not seeing a dime from it. This same sort of spirit, I'd wager, is what would drive individuals in a socialist system. What benefits me, benefits everybody. Your own personally drive to make your life better is completely OK in this scenario, yet you have the added benefit of helping everybody as well. However, if you ate food the community produced, and we didn't ask you to pay for it, we provided you lodging, provided you with medicine to treat your sick kid, provided police forces to make sure you are safe, is it so crazy to ask you to share whatever advances you make professionally with the community? I give this example simply to highlight that the mindset of a socialist society would be radically different from the grotestic individualism of our liberal society. And to address your "harder than other jobs", I could ask, do you like clean toliets? Cleaning toliets isn't glorious, nor is it difficult, yet the person who does that has an important role to play in society. The trash man is equally important, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't want a mountain of trash in your front yard, would you? The problem is society has a fucked up means of judging success, we see money and amazing entrepreneurs like the genius Paris Hilton as successful, and shun the plumber and the trash man. Capitalism has created a perversion of reality.
In a way, but as stated we seek to provide amenities to all who work. Those that cannot work would receive some sort of help from the community, but it would be different from welfare in ways.
Jordan Anderson
Holla Forumslack here. I would like open discussion even if Holla Forums isn't conducive to that, and despite fellow Holla Forumslack's efforts to shitpost/spam this board to oblivion.
I'll just briefly cover my political leaning (If you want, see my posts and for more information) but I describe myself as an anti-Capitalist Fascist. I read a great deal into Marx/Engels and related Communist theory, and I need to read more, but generally I understand and accept the validity and necessity of Socialist economy. But then, I still consider myself Fascist because I do believe in biological realities such as Race (But not Racial supremacy) and Sex. I value Fascist symbols like the Swastika and Fascism's aesthetic. Most importantly, I value Fascists - who I still consider kin. I'd be considered Racist by most and anti-Semitic by Holla Forums's standards. I place great importance on native pre-Christian European faiths - something tied very closely to Fascism considering Hitler's esotericism (But I don't subscribe to that). If there's any questions concerning how I consider myself Fascist, please ask them because I've considered myself as much for so long it's hard for me to notice what sentiments I developed.
Basically, I want to both gut Porky and gas Jews, and I know for a fact that both Holla Forums and Holla Forums are dissatisfied enough with the status quo cuckery that I feel both could make that kind of compromise.
Samuel Thomas
I'll save you a lot of time: - go on a search engine - search "post left Anarchism" - start reading
Ayden Flores
How can you like hitler and dislike capitalism?
Blake Ward
I was replying to you in the other thread, and I was the ancom poster in this thread. What do you want to discuss? I mean if I am being honest some of the things you say are definitely things we don't necessarily hold as values of our own. As an example, in relation to Jews, you'll find most of us are anti Zionist and very much so anti israel, but we're not inherently anti Semitic. In relation to what your probably refer to as Jews control govt and the media, we'd also probably agree. Difference is we want to see all upper level people abdicated from power, Jewish or not. So to those ends we share goals, you just should be aware that if you go off on Jews you may be banned for Holla Forums posting. Understand what I mean? Also in relation to culture, I don't think any of that is inherently an issue, stirnerfags may cry spooks but it's largely ok
Jack Morgan
Let me correct myself there. I value pre-Abrahamic faiths from just about anywhere - not just Europe.
William Martin
...
Aaron Price
Also: That's not fascist, that's for the most part science. Understand though we don't focus on race or sex because it's considered identity politics and leads to social justice, instead of dealing with the root problem, which is class
Hunter Clark
...
Tyler Cox
In the context of this specific pol poster, I think it's warranted. I personally don't ascribe to it, but we need baby steps here my man
Ethan Diaz
...
Chase Cox
Wew. Back to reddit
Colton Sullivan
go back to your fucking aut-right rally
Oliver Campbell
Kys, idpol is cancer
Bentley Foster
Easy now fellas
Christian Perez
Hitler was a mere man just like us and therefore just as prone to fucking up as the rest of us. I will freely admit that Hitler made a mistake with privatization - but I refuse to demonize him. I'm assuming you're asking this because I said I value the Swastika, but the truth is that the Swastika was far older than Nazi Germany.
I don't just oppose Jews as a people, I oppose Jewry as a behavior - as a collective of mannerisms I'm revolted by. I mean, I'm among Holla Forums's most vehement anti-Semites. However, that being said, even I can see how Jews could theoretically, potentially redeem themselves, but that would require too much effort for me to explain how, and I feel it's safe to assume that redemption would never happen. It's not about all the evils they caused - it's about the fact that it would require too much effort for too little reward on their part. I also oppose the power structure that enables tham as well, I'm not some retarded Stormfag that would be okay with the Rothschild family if they were White.
Owen Brown
...
Hudson Scott
Nope. I know the origin of the swastika. I just don't see how privatization was a "mistake" in hitler case when the power was given to him literally by porkies.
Jayden Torres
I think that's interesting and a very important point
I don't want to detract too much, but do you think it's possible, if the power structures are dissolved, that a majority of these Jewish behaviors dislike would also dissolve? I am assuming of course that some of these behaviors involve Jewish people having a tendency to concentrate around power, be it government, the news, or banking. I ask this because I know many Jewish people, including some that are atheist, that to me are indistinguishable from any old person in relation to their behavior. Actually incredibly nice, smart and caring. I'm not trying to be annecedotal, only I just wonder what your take on such people is
Caleb Wright
I see. I never even brought up Hitler aside from when I mentioned his esotericism, but that's fine. Hitler also fucked up by having a party that the Capitalist establishment would endorse. His party *should* have been too off-the-wall anti-Capitalist that the establishment would never consider such a thing, but that's neither here nor there.
Evan Ramirez
I mean, I'm not the sort to say "Irredeemably bad" about anything, it's just that I feel Jews benefit too greatly from these behaviors to shift on their own. However, I said I see things objectively, and that's true here too.
Landon Morales
Ah ok, I'd say for a Holla Forums poster you seem ok. Keep lurking here. I'm passing out for the night peace
Elijah Rodriguez
Night.
I do lurk once in a while but it's difficult to continue past the useless anti-Fascism, but Holla Forums is guilty of an equal amount of anti-Communist vitriol.
Nathaniel Garcia
Apply nail to forehead. Pound as necessary.
Benjamin Jones
OP read “Capitalist Realism: Is there no alternative?”
It is short and will tell you not why you should choose any one ideology (you can be a tourist later) but why you should reject capitalism
It even addresses your little attention span problem
David Morales
I'm this guy
and I would like to share a little something. I'm from the Appalachian region of Dixie, so being raised up Rightist was to be expected. I remember one of my first online experiences involved reading old StormFront, and my dad was an absolute White supremacist with a family tree that included high ranking members of the Ku Klux Klan who took part in actual lynchings (Of rapists, child molesters and wife beaters, mind you. These men actually helped black families) so I think you folks understand where I'm coming from, belief-wise. Anywho, in Appalachia, there's real pride in our region's history, which included the stories about the Mine Wars and the Battle of Blair Mountain. Everyone knew about that but it isn't really told all that often about why these things took place. I looked into it and when I found out that the Miners were trying to start a Union as part of a Socialist movement, it blew my mind. I just wanted to share this because we mountain folk take pride in our history, and if it was brought up more often that Socialism was a part of that system, people would be a great deal more open to hearing about it.
Isaiah Bailey
Was a part of that history*
Carson Nguyen
LOL, read Sartre you spooked bitch.
Gavin Lee
Buttttt he's so cute and folky! Can't we keep him? ;_;
Jack Hall
Always with the impotent "Spook" argument. Refute Holla Forums's description of Jewry as a whole or fuck off because these are my personal beliefs and I don't intend on convincing anyone else about them.
Luke Collins
You might like Marx's "On the Jewish Question" but you should probably read about why Marx wrote it before jumping to conclusions.
Joshua Moore
You actually are spooked, tho.
Zachary Lopez
As a Holla Forumslack I could declare everyone on Holla Forums "Cucked" and call it a day but that would be equally unproductive and counter to any kind of cooperation.
Gabriel Reed
Reading it right now, thanks.
Carter Barnes
Anti-Semite and Jew, Sartre. If you want a summary, you're a dumbshit idpoler pinning the entirety of your resentments and inferiority on a scapegoat. Your conception of the Jews is not based in reality and is stoked by the bourgeois so that you remain eternally class-cucked and stupid. I'm not going to waste time debating a nazi because you people live and breathe in bad faith so read the literature or don't, I don't care. If any part of your ideology sanctions the wholesale slaughter of regular people based on a fallacious concept like race or ethnicity we are never, ever cooperating so you can fuck off with your "reach across the aisle" bullshit.
Ayden Brooks
Whoah, whoah, whoah! Cool it! That's rude!
Alexander Myers
Sorry, but are you unaware of the history of nazism (and fascism, since the same applies to them as well) and the fundamentals of the fascist movement, aesthetisation of politics and so on? Because these statements make no sense.
Evan Nguyen
I wouldn't really recommend that video series for an absolute newcomer, I think it's a little too academic. Wolff's recent Google Talk is really good for explaining to normies what socialism is and isn't.
Hmmm, but being blinded by the bourgeois implies I'm blind to the evils of Capitalism and seeing as how I said I want to gut Porky that simply can't be true. I'd have to start seeing that the Jews as a people have a modicum of potential from this book of yours if I'm going to change my mind, but I'm not reading it right now. I'll read it after I'm done with Karl Marx's "On The Jewish Question".
They make sense to me. What is it about say Holla Forums's Fascism that make it nonsensical were it to oppose Capitalism?
Jacob Peterson
There is no genetic basis for races of people. The closest you might get is mitochondrial haplotypes, but those say nothing at all about the composition of the rest of one's genome.
Justin Rogers
There are no good ones
Dominic Murphy
Neanderthal DNA in non-Africans, consistent skull shape differences, differing bone densities, hair root differences, dietary needs, eye color, skin color… Nope not a single thing about Race is real. It's just made up, right?
Gavin Gray
You can find distinctions within whatever sub-groups you wish to define but the lines drawn are ultimately arbitrary. Race is a spurious social concept that is not biologically useful and is not utilized or acknowledged by actual scientists. Stating this fact is nearly universally met with claims of academic or Jewish conspiracy, often both, because fascism relies on a feels > reals narrative to justify the killing of innocents. Which is your end goal.
So because the mainstream supports your narrative, you're therefore 100% correct despite physical evidence to the contrary.
I agree insofar as to say that making legislation to support a narrative of racial supremacism is stupid, but academically speaking, learning all we can about biological realities has been nothing but useful thus far.
Nah, I don't believe in that "kill all non-Whites" narrative. I believe in preserving the various races as they are. The Jews are a collective of mongrels and are inbred to the point of being prone to a plethora of genetic diseases. I don't believe in murdering all of them if I simply find trouble believing that they will ever stop being Jew-y.
Landon Edwards
Don't know what Holla Forums's fascism means exactly but the historical context doesn't make sense, from what happened and also based on how fascists work as a political entity. Becoming kosher to right-liberals by selling out to capital and purging or castrating all actual revolutionaries (SA, syndicalists) from the movement was a defining moment for both the fascists and nazis. Becoming and joining with the mainstream was always going to happen with how the radical-right movements were built.
Camden Baker
Good thing times have changed and we can adjust trajectory and fix mistakes in the present.
Isaac Garcia
certainly, it's just that fascism with its aversion to actual economic theory and focus on aesthetics means it is more than likely to serve capital interests out of necessity or simplicity - and will not grow into political relevance without accepting and merging with what could be called 'cuckservatives' in the modern parliance.
Juan Price
Hence why I, a Fascist Holla Forumslack, am here: to get economic policy from the most theory-heavy system around. The coupling of Fascist aesthetics with Socialist policy could be glorious, if it was handled correctly.
Lucas Powell
Feel free to present said physical evidence.
Cooper Torres
I'd rather not, not because I don't have a fuckton of differences I could cover, but because I'm not interested in having this conversation. Please, feel free to have your own opinion on the matter.
Julian Collins
Okay, well, you should probably watch that video the other user posted and try to understand what you can of it. It presents a fairly significant body of evidence against any biologically meaningful definition of human races. In the mean time, you probably should refrain from making phrases like "the physical evidence speaks otherwise" and then refusing to present any in response to actual arguments though, unless you enjoy looking like a feels > reals idiot.
Caleb Rogers
Check out the chapters of The Ego and Its Own titled with Liberalism. theanarchistlibrary.org/library/max-stirner-the-ego-and-his-own#toc14 Right from the get go he scopes out how degrading and limiting liberalism is. Not only that it's obvious that political equality equality doesn't exist (fueled by money from company entities), nor social equality (decidedly, people regard each other as unequal socially; a contradiction to our espoused tolerance), nor are we equal as humans for obvious reasons.
Here's a section from "Political Liberalism"
It's amazing how much subjugation goes along with a simple thing as equality.
Christian Wood
That's not what he said.
And the physical evidence "to the contrary" would not be to the contrary at all without race theory - ie, race theory effectively preceded most of the science that was assumed to back it up. Variation in these things exists within races, as well as across different environments, and race theory itself often becomes ambiguous where certain ethnic groups are concerned - Eurasians, Indians (both the India kind and the American kind, really), Arabs, Mestizos, etc.
Luke Campbell
Alright I see your point. Discontinuing the conversation here does look disingenuous, but the fact is that it's not productive to keep talking about it no matter how many cases of mulatto children who can't find compatible bone marrow donors I bring up, or how coroners can tell the race of a cadaver long after it's decomposed just by looking at the skull, or how one can simply look at x-ray images of people and accurately predict what race they are just from bone structure. I'm missing my hard drive full of pictures on the subject but those examples should suffice enough to drop the subject.
BTW, I saw that video years ago. Still doesn't refute what I said.
Tyler Brooks
How do you mean? Eurasians/Arabs/Mestizos are generally understood to be mixtures of either various neighbouring groups or in the case of mestizos a mixture of African/European/Native American blood, with the mixtures dependent on the country in question
Cooper Fisher
How do you stop this meme?
Hunter Morales
Hard to refute an non-existent argument.
Jason Hall
15 minute basic
Opposition to capitalism and monopolies of wealth and power, anti-war, opposition to hierarchies.
Abolition of monetary system based on usury, reclamation of "private" property understood as factories and service buildings owned by business.
Anti-fascism and anti-imperialism, indifference to superficial minority struggles in the face of big problem that is class struggle. No idpol allowed.
Asher Nguyen
Britbong then? Cuz no one would ever think of using those terms interchangeably on the continent.
Landon Brooks
I don't see how our politicians delude themselves into believing that anything Western will remain, including capitalism, after decades of Islamic immigration, without a serious effort to integrate them. The migrants we have taken in since the 60s are STILL not really integrated as much as they could be, and an anti-Western sentiment is increasing rapidly, boosted by the several million new migrants who openly despise us, see our entire way of life as degenerate and wish to reform it into an Islamic way of life (including stopping the practice of loans with interest [already happening], and inevitably meaning the end of white/Christian/liberal politicians having any power).
I know that the EU has been talking of importing millions of Africans to boost the labour force since at least 2005, and that this 'Syrian' refugee crisis has been welcomed as a convenient disaster (in EU reports they speak of people risking their life in the med as an 'economic opportunity', go figure), but they must have some.. understanding of the fact that migration at this level means and end to what is ultimately, their riches and power?
As I said, some people are not worth the time and energy to engage. If you start your enlightened™ post off with insulting me based on a random and meaningless macro, and end it with "well I'm actually new to my own ideology so idk lol", then you needn't be surprised I prefer to invest time in the countless other anons here who don't make a fool out of themselves.
Brayden Sanders
I'm looking at it more under the belief that people naturally desire to 'get ahead' and earn/make some sort of profit off their work, and that that is a main driver of inovation and advancements. Some sort of financial profit, a status, a net gain of any sort, and I wonder if the same advancements can be made in a society that refuses to reward it, perhaps fails to motivate people to risk and work harder, or invest (emotionally/labour-wise) in crazy but potentially great ideas.
Well I would say no. The main difference being, in my idea, the set of people you present your idea to. In your proposed situation that would generally be the community as a whole, regardless of merit or education, regardless of insight or experience in business, in the current situation you prefer to propose your ideas to the people who have shown themselves skilled and succesfull in the busines world, generally people who are more knowledgeable into which ideas might turn a profit and which not so much.
I don't see how. Say your town is one community, and the next town is ten miles over, so they govern themselves as another community. You produce more than you can use, do you send it to them for free? Do you tell half your people they can stop working? Who gets to stop working? Do you trade the excess with other communities? What if your town has a great innovation that outproduces all nearby towns. Can those towns just stop working? Do you ask things in return? Some communities will fare better than others and this creates some inequality. What if a community has nothing to offer that you want, do you give it for free anyway in order for them not to starve? Other towns will now demand free produce as well. In these cases money can surely be a benefit, allowing people to trade for one single item that everyone can use? I understand the evils of corporatism and incredible personal wealth, I don't see an inherent evil in the concept of simple currency.
Well my sister is a biochemist and her grants were already twice as much as I made, but that aside lol. Most people don't have a meaningful occupation that gives them any way near the same satisfaction. How do you convince the 10,000 factory workers that stand across from you doing back-breaking repetetive work in a loud, smelly room, assembling clocks or shoveling coals to be satisfied with the spirituality of their labour as payment?
This brings me to a next point, that is mentioned often. The claim that socialists/communists don't take into account human nature (the urge to gain, posses, greed,.., basically the same traits that are often brought up to say why capitalism fails - because people are greedy and selfish), how do you respond to that? More specifically, perhaps, how do you propose to radically change people's mindsets?
Seems to me it would be impossible to propose such a change in a large nation like the US, where people know nothing else, and it would make more sense to start a small commune with everyone that already WANTS to try this way of life somewhere on a plot of land, and attempt to grow that in size. Not to mention that nothing in the US is equal. What do you do with all the slums, the middle-class flats and the giant mansions after you tell everyone they'll be living as equals from now on?
Jace White
I fail to see why so many people insist on linking race realism to racial supremacy. In my opinion, if racial differences can eventually be studied without taboo, and they are proven, we can use them to promote a more frictionless multicultural society, if we understood better the needs, strengths and tendencies of different groups. Instead most people seem to respond to the concept of race realism with accusations of genocide and eugenics.
Jews have been occupied with currency, scheming and banking throughout history, but I wouldn't say there's reason to assume it's a genetic thing if that's what you're alluding to. A historical/cultural thing perhaps, possibly left over from being persecuted so often that they *need* to think in terms of 'sticking to the tribe', where in business that outs itself as nepotism. If you then couple that with distinct political goals, we immediately end up at a Holla Forums level of distrust of Jews. That being said, just like in ww2, the wealthy Jews generally already took the chance to flee, leaving mostly the less fortunate Jews behind. It's not like they all help eachother. Plenty of Jews don't have a dime to their name, and the wealthier ones eagerly throw those to the lions and then come back afterwards to cry about how they themselves were the victims.
Good start.
wew lad. Kinda sad tbh.
Thank you.
Races have distinct and influential differences. It's not a big deal.
Just South of Bongistan. Continent-dweller here. Virtually everyone colloquially uses those terms as interchangeable. I'm not talking of academics, I'm talking to day-to-day interactions with common people.
Gavin King
What race is Barack Obama?
Robert Young
Mongrel therefore no Race. I'm gonna have to call this thread quits.
Elijah Morales
He's a mix between anglo and Kenyan. that makes him part basketball-American part sausage and beans. Although I'm not sure if a mix between two races is a strong argument to prove both initial races don't have distinct differences.
Pls no 404 daddy. I was enjoying the serious replies I got.
