The hysterical left has jumped the shark

orwell wasnt a communist he was libsoc

Have you actually read Marx?

he also says "antifa acts like fascists" whatever the fuck that means. I'm assuming it's because they punch people? which is retarded. Catalonia literally killed peopled they disagreed with en masse.

Orwell was literally an anti-fascist. He literally killed fascists.

What the fuck is wrong with people that they can't take 30 seconds to Google someone's biography but they can still make a video about that person.

He wrote positively about his experience in anarcho-communist (ansyn is a type of ancom) Barcelona and repeatedly stated that he would have loved to have seen a socialist Britain in "The Road To Wigan Pier".
this looks like bait, but Poe's Law is in full effect whenever PJW is named

that doesn't make communism synonymous with totalitarianism.

fascism is a totalitarian system for instance

Read Coming Up For Air and tell me with a straight face it is not a critique of capitalism.

Do people forget Orwell was a veteran of the Spanish civil war?

Orwell shot Fascists and rightists during the war.

"b-but it's fascism when u punch ppl u disagree with politically"

What is the matter, cannot name one example of a Communist revolution not devolving into totalitarianism?

how can you even define "totalitarian"? as far as I'm aware there is no concrete definition. if totalitarianism means incarcerating and killing people you don't like then every capitalist country is "totalitarian" also.

His exact tendency wasn't actually very clear and he definitely had Trot sympathies at the least.

No it doesn't make Communism synonymous with totalitarianism but it is what Communist revolution has always lead too.

Capitalism is totalitarian and most "Communist" countries were, in many respects, far more humane than the average modern-day Western country.

Ask the faggot
who said Orwell was criticizing totalitarianism.

Jesus fucking christ read the spoiler. It's a fucking shitpost

Ah that explains why the vast majority of the inhabitants of the former eastern bloc prefers not being "communist".

He openly said that it was inspired by his time working for the BBC. It's about systems of political control in general, and clearly incorporates elements of multiple systems and countries. The government in 1984 openly decries and condemns socialism, read the book.

How many nuns did he rape and kill?

this is false. not everyone is poland and ukraine.

I dunno, how much gold did the Church hoard while people were living in abject poverty in the Spanish countryside?

Name one country period that wasn't

He said as the CIA watched him through his TV.

I am not making a moral judgement, besides what does wealth taken by the church fathers have to do with women who deliberately shun material wealth and pleasures of the flesh?

*NSA

Dunno how many people did the church consign to death with their absurd morality laws and collaboration with the monarchy?

Objectively false

The absolute state of Holla Forums today.

One country that doesn't want to control every aspect of your life and will imprison you for your beliefs if they differ from the party line? Wow that one is hard, like really really hard. Oh shoot, you got me comrade user. You got me good.

the NSA was just a cover for the CIA, didn't you see Year Zero?

If those women truly believed in Christian values then they wouldn't have been part of an organization that collaborated with brutal right wing dictatorships that imposed violence and poverty on their people.

Read the motherfucking spoiler

He would have been against antifa.
Antifa is very much an authoritarian group.
History must be erased and replaced with whatever antifa decides suits their agenda best.
Words and language must be redefined to suit the aims of antifa and progress.
All wrongthink must be punished with beatings; don't you dare speak your mind or criticize them.
Anybody right of Mao must be purged.

You mean he was buttmad about Stalin and the Soviet Union ruining his precious Kekalonia? Mad cuz bad.

Worse of in terms of housing and food security but not one of them wants the thought police back.

sometimes you just gotta punch a cunt ya know? Sometimes there's just no debating some faggot who irl memes about how Hitler Dindu nuffin and how blacks and jews need to be gassed so you just let one off in his cunt mouth. It really can't be helped sometimes. I mean the alt-right is all about muh masculinity and alpha tough shit but when they get punched the REEEEEEE TERRORISM HELP ME DADDY

At most he may be critical of their recklessness or their lack of discipline, but he wouldn't criticize their principles in the slightest.

But why rape and murder them instead of liberating them? Because human beings are hateful little monsters under the right circumstances.

...

capitalist countries have the same thing, it's called the FBI, CIA, and NSA

So, once again, how is Holla Forums leftwing and not just a frogposting Holla Forums clone?

That chart is unironically correct.

America has pretty much gone full on fascist since 9/11 anyone who supports right wing populism aka Fascism needs the fist

there were tons of moderates in the Francoist side too
Most fashy fanboys think he was a shit tier fascist.

I'm eastern euro, and people here who say that life under communism was better tend to mostly say this because it was when they were young, so they feel nostalgic. It's almost like you saying that Spice Girls was a bit better than Nicki Minaj because you associate Spice Girls with when you were young and hearing that crap from TV.

There are things that people have admitted that WERE better than under current capitalism, like it was easier to get a housing, there was almost no unemployment, no homeless people, there were no sharp economic differences so people related more to each other and there was more unity.

Some stuff was also more shit like how you had to stand in breadlines for 3 hours, you were forbidden from consuming western entertainment/media/TV, and how artists and writers often were censored for "anti-soviet sentiments" which really often was just enforcement of social conservatism in general. Also, it's not a lot of fun to serve 2 years of your life in red army in some shithole near the border of China and get hazed by russian soldiers until you learn to speak russian just to say "please stop".

Now feel free to call me a baltic fascist or whatever.

there is actually nothing wrong with this chart

youtube.com/watch?v=qx8hrhBZJ98

Depends on the scenario, especially since Antifa is a collection of autonomous groups operating largely independently from what another. At Berkeley they were fighting random Trumpfags and assorted right wing troglodytes. In Charlottesville they were clearly fighting actual fascists. That's what I was getting at when I said Orwell would be critical of their lack of discipline and direction. He would chastise them for being unable to tell the difference between a genuine fascist and a MAGA chud, not for using violence against fascism.

Totalitarianism is a meaningless buzzword.

Name one society where the socio-economic system doesn't dominate almost everything about your life.

okay, so how many genders do you want me to call you again?

Antifa has no principles except attacking people who express the wrong political opinions. Those opinions sometimes happen to be actual Fascism, but it's still a false equivalence to compare those who believe them to 20th century armed Rightists.

Nice moralism.

Do you want to die?

Boy this sure isn't a post I would ever see on Holla Forums. Nope.

Antifa has no principles to speak of because Antifa is not an organization.

Perhaps you will be more comfortable on on r/socialism.

don't worry, it's just r/socialism paying a visit

can't be helped. The working class will do what it do.

Remind me. How are you left wing on /"lefty"pol/, again? What actual leftwing beliefs do you ascribe to?

Okay, I agree with you. Everyone is too pussified and pacified by consumer culture to actually do anything and thefore the very real fascists in america don't actually need to be fought, because they're just LARPing, the same way antifa is LARPING.

Maybe you can fool the centrists, libs, etc with that bullshit, but you don't fool us.

Fascism is radical nationalism. The fact that you have a hundred names for radical nationalism doesn't stop us from pointing it out for what it is.

...

what is that exactly? What does Trump have to fucking do to become a radical nationalist?

holy shit was this a bad thread

anuddah shoah and government doing stuff :^)

Posadist Egoism

Maoist third worldism

...

It was a criticism of stalinism, you tool.

look up the basic definition of communism, then get back to me.

Literally fake news spread by nationalists. I bet you think the soviets were cannibals, too. What a faggot you are, you little illiterate.

what the hell happened to her?

more impotent reeing from the commies at twelve

Seek to change society on a basic level on nationalist principles, especially in regards of upholding national struggle and wanting to bring back some legendary national past.

just torture porn I guess

If communism is democratic and values personal freedom, and ML states were undemocratic and didn't value personal freedom, then ML states weren't communist.

it was a criticism of ussr
he was a trot

Name how any of them are all that different from America.

Why is this bad?
Why do we need to sacrifice ourselves for countries that couldn't care less about us, or even hate us?
I really don't understand the globalism mindset

Does anyone even read the spoiler? Motherfuckers

Trump and his supporters would like to do that but they are too fucking incompetent and stuipid to actually do it not to mention the fact that the political system and society is designed to uphold the status quo and entrenched interests so even if they weren't incompetent it would take rivers of blood

Fucking hypocrite.

The United States has those. There is no FBI, CIA and NSA in my country.

Oh sweetie every country has the CIA and NSA

Goes something like this

imagine being so brainwashed that you begin to love totalitarian bootlicking

lolbergs are just there to suck corporate cock. If they stayed out of the way instead of defending the slaveowners ancoms couldn't give a shit less about their existence. Worthless class traitors is what they are.

...

Wew.

rather suck corporate than state cock tbh

what's the difference?

corporations do not violate the NAP?

they don't?

only as long as the state keeps them in check.

No one cares about your nappy, least of all the multinational corporations.

[citation needed]

Which is why you'll always be a faggot. Luckily us ancoms don't have to worry about either because we don't support corps or a state. Enjoy being a cuck for your boss and not having a history within the actual anarchist movement. Now fuck off, don't you have some babies to sell?

McDonald's can't force you to eat a burger.

The state will make sure you eat that burger and pay your fair share for it as well.

They have more people in prison right now than there were at the height of the gulags. Most of the people in the gulags were also there for non political crimes like theft, assault, etc. In America they have the de facto criminalization of poverty through drug laws, and have a prison/policing system that incentivizes as many arrests and imprisonments as possible.

zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-05/private-prison-demands-small-town-give-it-300-more-prisoners-or-it-will-close-down

No, they just fund a tiny spectrum of debate to the exclusion of everything else through corporate media oligopoly controlled by a few hundred executives. And why would the government bother censoring anything when Google will do it for them?

wsws.org/en/articles/2017/07/27/goog-j27.html

gizmodo.com.au/2017/08/google-funded-think-tank-fires-google-critic/

Again, they use softer methods of narrative control, indoctrination, and censoring criticism. Or they just straight up summarily execute you like they did to Fred Hampton.

You're right, they just have good old fashioned crippling poverty where you suffer squalid conditions, and unlike conscription it's typically permenant.

Neither did the Soviets.

It was just as much a criticism of the USSR as it was capitalist society (especially highly classist British capitalism). The whole point of Orwell's hate for Stalinism wasn't just that it was totalitarian, but that it's top-down structure resulted in the continuation of the existence of social class.

You could debate whether or not Orwell would support American antifa in its current form specifically, he clearly didn't take particular issue to violent revolution to achieve socialism.

There are very easily identifiable reasons why the Marxist-Leninist socialist model was authoritarian and why it was the model used by the 20th century communist states. Not only that, but there are very obvious ways to avoid repetition of the emergence of such policies again should socialism return.

Citing war crimes as a reason *ideology* is bad is is no uncertain terms, not an argument.

Tell that to all the elected governments toppled by American corporations.

The simple fact is that these corporations make use of violence whenever it suits them, especially in the third world. The only reason why they don't maintain standing armies is because they have the government as a proxy to serve their interests.

You can't implement a system that inexorably concentrates power in fewer and fewer hands and not expect the people who hold that power not to use it for their own gain at everybody else's expense.

Name one corporation that wasn't an arm of the American deep state that successfully toppled a government.

WEW

...

This is somehow voluntary in the mind of a delusion ancap.

Instead of sucking corporate or state cock how about sucking worker and/or consumer co-op cock instead, I promise it tastes better than the other "options".

Hypocrite.

"Arm of the deep state" is irrelevant, they were private businesses, and under capitalism major shareholders and executives will inevitably form close relations with politicians and military/intelligence officials to serve their own ends.

The struggle of human society is class struggle, not national struggle.

I refuse to struggle against other proletarians in the service of the national bourgeoisie.

Well yeah. If only one company is allowed to have such power over an entire sector of the economy, the chances are it's being controlled by an esoteric government department.

You mean under fascism. Under capitalism you'd have more than one banana company.

You are cherry-picking. Not entire america is like Detroit, you know. Some pretty nice communities in the middle america where there is actually high standard of living, unlike in soviet union where only bureaucrats lived well. USSR was objectively more shit than america ever was tho, not economically but in violating human rights and being brutal.

Look, I can cherrypick too:

>THOUSANDS of Soviet-era prisoners rounded up in Joseph Stalin's brutal purges were dumped without food or shelter on a remote island in Siberia where they turned to cannibalism, according to newly disclosed documents from a former KGB archive.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-cannibal-hell-of-stalins-prison-island-t8pskwrxn26

articles.latimes.com/1986-01-07/news/mn-13892_1_soviets

watermark.silverchair.com/api/watermark?token=AQECAHi208BE49Ooan9kkhW_Ercy7Dm3ZL_9Cf3qfKAc485ysgAAAfQwggHwBgkqhkiG9w0BBwagggHhMIIB3QIBADCCAdYGCSqGSIb3DQEHATAeBglghkgBZQMEAS4wEQQMoPffsZKdhKYJN1p8AgEQgIIBp44fjbFlrLGKBLMZEG0enGoah98NMI7CoRy9hYuKRtgNOeVhmukGiLiNEwngES1yIKc0w48HBVl8kU4cmEmNVMnbZqHn-FTbHZoYNeU669fw7ztgkUKMrKXpi27NaYGrckXSrYlmRdOakEPSL3Yrm1rbXbENi6G6C_VsPBLBgdD0m15nO9Jk4tmdh1HLa3NZYTQkxdVbadhB4PUgSdxxm6D2Y8Y4ttB8OMgBTpKCxlo3iq5m0rcT1B5-J2MVx7UR8LG1YLmdHKfFytpkQTDemocratic Cops of Americawt2qhj7bt2dWuweVNRQfJ_vi5VEJEU4CgVOHB6G9gi7RxQiZtmW7zh-DR5F7lPeCirgN8o3JeGopsW1XgF6aw5sTYOzo_VVUtD-NanTDxiXaV66NKCb6fnE04xuOUwNifsGt4Hc6QgeE9-wnC8xeGtCIPlv1SjQ22V6vx52WOYQEo4SKJ_l028Fyz84Ujan2Kcu2CAJl0gFTXOqOV7umHiZB0VcwHRqtBT4ozkeOtdxJ6WvuCeo36XVmWBPg7t8QMv5J0ifwgfvKZbwNV6pPQA6pvknb4uiSg

books.google.ee/books?id=SqOPw9Yq-MEC&lpg=PA243&dq=stalinist russia pseudoscience&pg=PA79&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=stalinist russia pseudoscience&f=false

for what fucking purpose? To sell fruit? IT's more like the deep state was an arm of the fucking fruit company.

I wasn't talking about monopolies, moron. What I described is a standard procedure in industries that aren't monopolized.

I also don't think you understand what a deep state is, except in your altered definition of the term.

And how the fuck do you propose to prevent private and public sector ruling class collusion?

You've got it backwards. The US government is an arm of corporations.

And the US committed mass genocide, waged global campaigns of terror and murder, propped up totalitarian regimes, crushed democracy and human rights worldwide, etc. They currently operate a massive torture camp for people who fought back against the American rape of their countries on the stolen soil of a country that was an American colony for most of its existence. You want to get into a brutality contest it is quickly going to degenerate into meaninglessness, since all empires are built on blood and oppression.

As for poverty, America is objectively worse than most western countries and many economists are even saying it is increasingly looking like a developing country. Wages are falling, opportunities are slipping away, more and more people are squeezed out of the middle class, and the repressive aparatus of the state is ever increasing.

People lived better in the Soviet Union than they do in its successor states, poll after poll shows this. And middle America is rapidly becoming a thing of the past as more and more people slip into the precariat.

READ THE MOTHERFUCKIN SPOILER.
I was shitposting like op did. I love orwell as a writer too. I made a post a few threads ago were I raked all of his works because I fucking read them all. He was the one who intruduced me to literature

I know, I was just using you post as jump off point to explain the actual intent behind 1984.

Your shitposting turned into a 100-reply shitstorm of a thread. Maybe shitpost responsibly next time, pasta guy?

No, to control the countries that make the fruit so that they don't develop their own economies and acquire the means to subvert the superstate.

By not giving the state the pot of fucking gold.

It's a glass half-full half-empty thing. It means the exact same thing, and these semantic arguments play to their advantage.

I don't put much stock on the moral and intellectual capacities of the average rightwinger, but any of them who uses Orwell to defend their positions has nothing of any worth to say. And I say this without passing any judgment on Orwell himself.

...

lmao, that chart is 100% accurtate.

Correct, ruling class is ruling class, this still leaves, unanswered, the question of how collusion between the public and private sector members of the ruling class can be prevented while still preserving capitalism.

If a central authority doesn't have primary or exclusive control over the money supply, then private bankers, who are just as much responsible for the state of the modern politico-economic system will, and they will inevitably form cartels to use that ability to create money to the best of their interests.

This

haha meteor man has obviously read fuck all of anything Orwell wrote

Seriously, what the fuck is wrong with this guy?
Does he just like being dishonest or he belives his own bullshit?

His understanding of Orwell comes form his high-school english class.

your understanding of anarchism too tbh

Pretty sure you're projecting, snakefriend.

If a central authority doesn't have primary or exclusive control over the money supply, then private bankers can't be members of it. Then you'd just have a system of beads to determine how many loaves of bread a chicken is worth, like the good old days.

You're not a real snake. gtfo shill

wtf

As I said, if the state doesn't control the money supply then the ability to so will default to banks who will form cartels to get the most out of that ability.

Also, no society in history has used barter as the basis of its economic system.

if you like markets, why not become ancap anyway

stfu m8 you are not probably even an american

It's more about intent than your actual ability to carry out that intent.

Not him, but I'm fairly sure it's because he thinks the workers should control the means of production.

And he likes markets because he hasn't read Capital yet.

Because I believe in the leftist conception of what is and isn't morally legitimate property, and that the profits earned by the workers of a business should not be taken from them, or that their livelihood should be under the control of a classes of "owners" who maintain unchecked control of the economy.

I don't think the necessary technological infrastructure, computational power, and proven mathematical models currently exist to ensure planning results in an equal or higher standard of living than free or mixed market economies.

Interesting take, thanks for that.

-t. leftypol reasoning

You keep using the word 'money supply' as if wealth is a thing that exists and isn't solely representative of the products of labor. If no central authority exists to determine the value of money, then it solely reflects the value of a product being sold in relation to other products being sold. I'm not quite sure how many eggs a steel beam is worth, but civilization existed millennia before the jews came along so someone must have figured it out.

Holla Forums reasoning

Oh wait

wew lad

dear god

Isn't capitalism fundamentally the priority of the individual over the collective in an economy? Where is it implied that megabank robber-barons running the government are a good thing?

IT WAS HER TURN

Capitalism doesn't care about individuals vs collectives. Capitalism is defined as an economic system where privately owned businesses/means of production engage in trade, for profit, in a competitive market, further characterized by capital accumulation (for the purpose of further property acquisition), wage-based labor, and private property as defined by classical liberalism.

Robber-barons aren't considered a good thing in capitalist theory, but the argument isn't about whether or not capitalists consider them good, it's that they're an unavoidable negative consequence of the system.

Is this codeterm for nu-feminists? Like "testerical left" would be for brocialists?

You forget how robber-barons can only exist if they derive their power from some central authority, otherwise they're just robbers.

That same central authority is what enforces the property law that not only allow for Robber-barons to grow their businesses (and themselves) into the entities of influence they are, but allows capitalism as a system to even exist.

you mean "testicular"?

No, it's a SJW word to "counter" the sexism of "hysterical", since it admittedly does have a bigoted etymology.

...

He openly called himself a socialist, spoke positively to the point of obvious bias about the communist militia he fought for, and his works feature very obvious negative portrayals of capitalism.

t. meteor man

in what way is using the word "hysterical" bigoted? give me a fucking break.

You don't enforce property law. You litigate it with the law offices of Smith & Wesson. You've been jewed into thinking that capitalism can only exist under jewish circumstances, but that just isn't the case.

Either that or you're high on red spray paint. Read Animal Farm. You can do so in an hour, so spend the next hour reading it again.

It wasn't a "wider global conflict", it was a local civil war in which the Axis Powers and the USSR intervened in.
Orwell wasn't on some fucking crusade against fascism, neither was most of western europe at the time. He went there because he was ideologically symphatetic with the international brigades.

Read the last 20 pages of Animal Farm.

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Sorry but without a central authority upholding judgements from law offices this isn't very realistic as then anyone could file a claim with their law office of choice.

I don't engage in selective reading, champ. It's a tale, with a beginning, a middle, and an end, where the outcomes of past events affect the present.

I don't think the necessary technological infrastructure, computational power, and proven mathematical models currently exist to ensure planning results in an equal or higher standard of living than free or mixed market economies.
ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/new_socialism.pdf

I don't believe you

Just google for its etymology man, it ain't complicated.

About three fiddy.
The catholic church in Spain were, and still are, huge reactionary fucks who deserved everything they got.

ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/new_socialism.pdf

It isn't anymore, but it's etymological origin is the Greek word hystera, meaning womb, and it originated as a term for the alleged psychological condition thought to be exclusive to women.

Without property law the only property you can truly protect is property which you can immediately and personally protect, which means you're limited to property you can, (here's an important rule of thumb in anarchist property theory), "occupy and use".

circumstances
I should begin ignoring you now, but I'll bite. Do you actually think Jews created the classical liberal conception of property and property law?

What I said is easily verified, and when I referred to the negative portrayal of capitalism in his works I was precisely thinking of Animal Farm. In that book the animals are portrayed as justified for rising up against the farmer (capitalist). It's not a book against the far-left, but a retelling of how Stalin ruined what could have been true liberation for Russia's proletariat.

The first half of Animal Farm explicitly states how better and more productive the animals became without private property and a ruling class, why do right wingers always ignore that part?

He specifically fought with the POUM, a communist group in Catalonia.

Of course if you read with an agenda you're only going to remember the points that back your own point of view. Who do you think taught you this method of reading? It wasn't the Jesuits.

I'm getting my interpretation from my understanding of Orwell's other writings, which, unlike Animal Farm and 1984, are not metaphorical and are unambiguous in their meaning. If you want to understand his famous fiction works you have to understand Orwell as a whole, and when you do so, there's no way to interpret his works as anything other than being both anti-capitalist and anti-Marxist-Leninist.

What part of "The Theory and Practice of Oligarchical Collectivism" was ambiguous?

Holla Forums here, it isn't a critique of your beloved communism.

It was actually an anti nazi thing. Themes you may not pick up on because you don't think about them include:

I'm sure there are a few other things that I missed.

It was an anti-authoritarian thing, which Orwell recognized both Nazism and Stalinist as being. It also criticized class society especially the modern organization of class into upper, middle, and lower classes.

So… all established governments?
I don't think anyone thought it might have been about feudalism or liberal capitalism.

1984 portrays a class society dressed up as "socialism" by its leaders. It's a critique of the USSR's faux-socialism.

Did he write any graphic descriptions of it by any chance? I am asking for a friend.

...

Jesus was Jewish….. Why would he do that to his own people when the first Christians were Jewish?

I know this is a shitpost but come on

The mass destruction of free information, several slogans, and the changing of the language are all based on Fascist policies, too. The first two he wrote about witnessing in the civil war, and the latter one, if I recall correctly, was inspired by Mussolini's attempts to change the Italian language by removing words with foreign roots.

Sage 'cause shit thread.

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