Antifa

There's no real consensus on this board about antifa.

Speaking personally, I have reservations but I'm leaning towards support.

Out of interest, what are your reservations?

I've never seen an antifa claiming to be against a revolution, so there you go. At best they just don't talk about it at all.

Mainly due to their offensive violence tactics. As a means to an end it has serious flaws and I have trouble backing it philosophically.

And looking back at radical militants in the 60 and 70 vs. the non-violence movement as an example gives me pause. A lot of the urban guerrillas like the SDS and Weather Underground have expressed regrets as they got older. But no one who marched with King is ashamed of it now.

Every successful non-violent movement had a more violent movement with it parallel. They did not succeed because their tactics were better, they succeeded because they were a less radical compromise that was used to disarm genuine revolt.

This is a good article but they should have included something about the myths of "antifa is a response to Trump" or "antifa is the paramilitary wing of the Democratic Party."

Valid points.

Or 'Soros fund Antifa'.

*funds

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Protip: don't do a "haha ur dum" strawman if it's actually correct. The vast majority of US antifa groups just stage peaceful counter protests or beat up republicans rather than actually combat Fascists. They are ineffectual LARPing liberals with a small kernel of genuine anti fascists.

Keep repeating Holla Forums propaganda and ignoring reality please, you are really helpful.

Antifa not being a significant enough threat to Fascism or having defined enough goals is not Holla Forums propaganda, dipshit. This is the opposite of what Holla Forums claims about them, which is usually something along the lines of "they are all weak beta male cucks but AKSHUALLY they'll destroy the USA and need to be banned!"

im not american but aren't they really gaining momentum right now? especially after Charlottesville? libs and fash are actually taking them seriously, even if they are mostly trashing them. isn't any publicity good publicity?

They have serious publicity and some popular support now, as well as 'haha ur the real fascists not the ppl who want a fascist dicatorship!' having egg on their faces, which could LEAD into gaining momentum, but given their past performance in the US I am seriously doubting that. When right wing elements of the Oath Keepers tried to "protect" protests by aiming guns at them from rooftops, antifa affiliates were nowhere to be found, for example, and I also doubt that they'd do anything with the Proud Boys now that they're promising to shoot 'looters'. I have not seen or heard of any Antifa groups stepping up to the plate and saying 'fuck off' when it comes to the right waving weapons around.

Speaking of which, anyone have the pics of the Proud Boy's founder trying to stretch his tiny dick and showing his asshole to his friends in a totally not gay, platonic fashion?

Have you been living under a rock? They've made a significant blow against the alt-right at Charlottesville. It was a complete disaster for them and they've been on suicide watch since.

Woah!!! Can you believe it!!! They FOUGHT each other with FISTS!!!! So epic.

That means absolutely nothing. The more placid European Antifa groups shut down right wing protests almost monthly, and quite frequently more often, too, and it does nothing to hamper far right recruitment, support, or deal with the increasing threat of an armed far right or a right wing paramilitary or militia forming. In the end, protests are only going to attract people who are already likeminded, so shutting one down does jack shit.

I have not at any point seen Antifa actually step up to the plate when the right wing has been arming themselves. Redneck Revolt does not count, as I, again, have not seen them step forward and actually do anything. Please correct me if I am wrong.

lol no, otherwise Trevor Noah wouldn't dare speak out against them

He already did correct you. RNR and antifa were the only reason that targeted groups were properly evacuated and lives were saved throughout the city.

Antifa isn't great but it's not as bad as some people claim. However, I think anti-fascist activities should be part of broader anti-capitalist organizations. Anti-fascism without anti-capitalism and without actual organization (inb4 some post-leftist starts jerking off about how great affinity groups are) is a dead end.

Noah speaks out against them for the same reason the GOP is against Trump.

Antifa = Controlled Opposition

Differs region by region. In (post-) Soviet Ukяaine they're Tsarists & Putinists doing the same instead.

kys, muke

They piss of rightists

So are you saying antifa are responsible for the death of Heather Heyer?

That assumes they stand against the neoliberal establishment, they don't even pretend to be "opposition". Their entire toolkit is labeling people who have questions about the current liberal order as "Nazis" and then pretending they are a response to these "Nazis".

It used to be pretty based decades ago, when World War II was relatively recent, since they were instrumental in dealing with whatever remnants of Axis ideology were still hanging on. When they beat people up, it was because the victim was a genuine danger to society.

Nowadays it's just an excuse for drunk college students to start fights in public.

Only regular libs dislike them.

Literally vegan aut-right. Play the idpol game and both sides become indistinguishable. If only they had organization They wouldn't be such idiots.
The argoument I hear a lot here is "If you are against violence you are a liberal" and that's totally right, but being violent doesn't make you a communist. You are just a red liberal who is beating up a bunch of reactionaries. Tools for the establishment, when the establishment understanded that antifa is literally creating the reactionaries in the first place they made a 360 turn. That's not even antifa fault 100%, it america propaganda that made belive these guys that antifa is 100% stalin reincarnated. Antifa just did shit to go against that propaganda.
Mind me, we are talking america antifa in 2017.

Meanville trump escalated afghanistan even more. Are they doing something about that? There was a protest? No, because if it was obama who did that, as he did, no one would be against him.
State of thing in 2000+17 year of our lord. Idpol is the battle here, the neoliberals fascists in the goverment are the only one who are winning here.

Didn't do*

They are doing a fine job building the moral highground for the right.

And when has antifa ever in history stopped anything bigger than vastly outnumbered lonely passants or grandmas or without the police doing the job of clearing the protests and antifa just celebrating victory for shutting it down on the sideline?

Watch for the Hitler portrait in the living room.

I mean, "Antifa"/"Antifascist action" is more of an unorganized rallying cry used and appropriated by certain organizations than an organization unto itself. So it's kind of strange to treat them as a unitary entity.

But honestly one thing I've noticed about the left in america is that they veer away from economic knowledge and often strictly criticize the superstructure.

...

the left in america that's part of these anti-fascist movements* sorry

oftentimes that kind of demographic calls themselves anarchist and stuff but they're really not into the literature. i guess it isn't a bad thing - not everybody who supports a movement can be an intellectual juggernaut. but i think better knowledge of the systems they're trying to implement would be a good idea.

Agreed, it's like refering to 4chan as some sort of cohesive whole with a master plan, when in reality it's a bunch of random bored people shitposting. Antifa is whoever wants to call themselves antifa, but the right can use it as a convenient scapegoat for when they want to make the left look violent or whatever.

By this point if you haven't joined your local antifa with this surging far right you are just a lazy keyboard warrior that doesn't actually care about politics enough to sacrifice anything at all

I'm antifa and have plenty of antifa friends. No one gets any outside funding, but the cost of protesting is also extremely marginal, outside of anti-teargas wash (necessity, might be $3 or $4) and any goodies. There's no antifa clubs, no antifa social mixers… people bring black clothing and a few friends to events that are likely to have fascist presence.

correct

In my city, we tend to get 100-400 black blocers at events now. In America – not all black bloc is antifa, not all antifa is black bloc. However antifa is the closest thing to an anarcho-socialist movement and currently the only major movement actually masking its identity and participating in civil disobedience.

What violence do you find excellent? Neonazis are pretty awful and antifa resisting police brutality should be justified in your book. To be honest I did think about punching a kekistani at a rally, but he was completely non-violent and not dogwhistling or buddying up with the fash. Tbh it seems like he just showed up for the memes. Seriously just a LARPer. It's not like antifa just runs around beating up Trump supporters or moderates or just "decides" to start beating up police… I've been in several "riots" and they really aren't represented well in the media because the media is neolib and cuckservative

Actually, most liberals are opposed to antifa. If you want to demonize antifa, just call them SJW

Yeah. many parallels can be drawn between the black bloc and Anonymous. The current American antifa vs alt-right soap opera has echoes of chanology

who gives a shit you fucking liberal
pretty pol tier understanding of antifa tbhwyf

Antifa is an organization of confused white kids still living with their parents because the school system never taught them how to gain access to the welfare system. They fight to put King Shekelstein in charge of the food supply and housing for all people living on Earth. He will distribute equally for sure. Then there will be no more hate. Only love.

I was looking at their sources for death counts and was wondering: was the Pulse nightclub shooting alt-right? The shooter's family said it didn't have to do with religion.

so leftists don't care about morals now? cool what separates us from liberals then

We have our own morals. Worrying about 'the moral highground' in the sense that the poster was talking about means accepting our enemies' morals and trying to live by them. No social movement can succeed that way. Indeed, the only way we can win is by recognizing that what we are struggling for in the ideological plane is nothing less than 'morality' and 'common sense' itself.

Who? Omar Mateen? The islamic who swore allegiance to isil before shooting up the club. Yeah definitely not alt-right.

pol, you are just stupid as hell

Well a recent poll of left wing activists in Berlin showed 92% still lived with parents so they are not too wrong. 62% of reddit socialists live with their parents too. Not to mention a large number unemployed. Certainly seems that a good number are made from well to do middle class families and just larping, or doing protests for the pay. lets face it, the vaste majority of Trump supporters where just everyday normal working class people.

Don't they have larps like that in Russia?

No, it showed that 92% that had faced criminal charged were written on their parents adress in the reports. Most of these are squatters who dont have a legal adress, so the census place them at their next-of-kin automatically.

And redditors live at home because they are underage

Statistically, this wasn't even true.
Trump support was most concentrated among "middle class" (you used the term, but it's largely bunk - in our eyes, the higher paid workers are still working class) white people. The media was quick to blame the poor and low-income working class, but it was wrong.

jacobinmag.com/2017/01/trump-election-democrats-gop-clinton-whites-workers-rust-belt/

No central organization means that anyone can claim being Antifa as long as it vaguely involve opposing fascism. So you can' really judge it as an homogenous phenomenon.