I "left" leftism some months ago, after becoming a philosophical pessimist...

I "left" leftism some months ago, after becoming a philosophical pessimist. I currently don't join any political ideology in particular.

Why are leftists in general so optimistic about humankind and progress?

hurrr rich people caused everything

We are?

Being cynical and taking no responsibility is the easy way out. The world is very violent and harsh and only we can make it better.

Optimistic? We just want to watch the world burn.

Zapffe is cool.

Not really related but I really want to kill anyone who says "I'm not a pessimist, I am a realist."
Single most pretentious fucking line there ever was. As for you, OP, we seperate our emotional worldviews from historical materialism. A lot of us probably think the world is fucking trash, some might not, but we all realise that our contemporary economic system is just a chapter in human history, like the neoolithic age or feudalism. Capitalism might dominate for hundreds of more years but it is still a chapter nonetheless.
But the fact that we are so "optimistic", as you put it, is because of we have achieved insane fucking shit in the last century alone. Sure, we have more slaves now than in ancient times and we have created weapons that can destroy the earth but we have also gone into space and landed on the moon with technology that are less developed than what tills use. Soon automisation will fuck shit up and we're on our way to them sweet gulags, baby!

They indeed caused a lot of problems. Pollution, exploitation, wars, slavery etc.
People from the left are often correct at diagnosing society's problems, but they don't see the core of the problem - the human problem -, so the solutions they propose (when they do) are unworkable, impossible to apply on reality.


Leftists (specially socialists, communists and anarchists) expect that the working class (or another oppressed people of their choice) someday will rise against the oppressors and a better society will come out of it. But I don't need to say this never gonna happen, specially in this contemporary society, when people nowadays are too self-centered and only care about their own ass. "Class consciousness" is just a meme, there will be no such thing because people don't see themselves as a part of a class.


Throwing bombs at cops and authorities is cool imo, but in the end that doesn't solve anything. When the riot ends, the world is fucking same. Everyone goes to work to be exploited by the boss as if nothing happened the day before.


Historical materialism as a reductionist, simplistic way of seeing human history. Also Dialetics, a "theory of everything" for the communist left. Both are ridiculous, outdated theories by now.

Another point is that leftists don't believe in "human nature", they see the human only as the product of their environment (that is, capitalistic society). But science already proven the human baby is not a blank piece of paper where you can write anything in it, as it was believed to be.
Not believing that humans have a intrinsic nature is the same as not believing in genetics and genetic inheritance, which is insane. That's why the average, normal people see leftists as lunatics and narrow-headed.

so… what? it's action of individual rebelion, not something that is calculated to change the world
it's act of revenge of individual on ruthless world

good riddance

You sound still leftist but with broken hopes. Stop complaining and crying because we have a job to do and the working class is counting on us.

Stand up and be a man. We have no moral right to give up. I'll sound pompous but this is a war of survival.

The real question, op, is why you are such a pseud.


That you ever have or did is pseud mark #1. Real intellectuals don't do ideology, they do truth. Philosophical pessimism? lol

How? Particularly, how is dialectics "reductionist" or "simplistic"?

Talking about a theory being "outdated" is a facile way of understanding anything.

What we consider to be human nature is itself a product of the environment.

Hardly anyone here believes this or ever believed it That position is associated with postmodernism, and a poor understanding of the postmodern position at that..

No, it isn't. You're only equating the two.

I should also add that your "philosophical pessimism" is skin-deep. It isn't pessimistic about the possibility of knowledge or about science's ability to grasp truth. It's a pessimism that merely reiterates liberalism with morose intonations.

How does that in any shape or form debunk Marx' analysis on Capitalism? Rude sage.

this post made my cock hard

I'm just in it for the bloodshed.

Because it is our only hope of anything that isn't completely awful and sucks balls all the time. I believe that history has proven well enough that humans can be decent people when they're not molded into being pieces of shits for someone elses gain. The same plasticity of humans that allow them to be shit could potentially allow them to be not shit.

Why would you be pessimistic when you can be NRx and enjoy tyranny and punishment? Serious question.

A.W. do you always namefag or not? Because I've been seeing your brand of rude pretentiousness other places on this board. You might not be wrong much of the time, but your shitty discourse really makes me want to disagree with you.

When have people not been shit?

When they're just living their life trying to get by not caught up into some pyramid scheme claiming it will make them superior to everybody else

Dude what

If we start making predictions, the only thing I can see for the distant future is that capitalism (or, to be exact, humans in a capitalistic political-economic system) will keep fucking the planet over, until there's nothing left of it, or until there's a WW3 with huge biochemical weapons and the humanity wipes itself out (which, in the end, is not totally a bad thing).


Marx analysis of capitalism was very accurate. However, as I said before, the solution he proposed ("predicted", as he believed in "dialectics") is that one day the "proletarian class", by iself, will start an uprising to take control of the means of production from the "bourgeoisie" and the capitalistic system will fall and a new, socialist, social order will emerge. Needless to say that it's never going to happen, by reasons I've cited before.

One thing that leftists forget is that capitalist system is made by humans. It's not a thing which was imposed from outside by aliens or something. Any system made by humans is doomed to fail.


Keep trusting this thing called "the woking class" then.


If seeing all the human history as only as the product of "classes" fighting over themselves (as if classes always existed in all the previous civilizations) is not reductionist nor simplistic, we need to redefine these words.

The problem is that you consider it *only* the product of the environment (that is, only external factors). As if there was no internal factors that build this human nature, as, for example, genetics.

I didn't said I have hopes in science or any other man-made thing that promises progress. Actually I have no hopes in anything, much less humans.
I consider myself a philosophical pessimist because I found pessimism to be more accurate to describe reality, its past, present and furue.

Shit, we can do the revolution without pointless discussion with blased petty bourgeoise intellectuals like you.

The only problem with WW3 is that there will be survivors.

you haven't read a single thing by marx, have you

Indeed he is. His essay "The Last Messiah" is wonderful, one of the best things I've read.


Unfortunately.

This, you can join the u/acc gang and enjoy watching the world burn ironically unironically.

we don't """"trust"""""" the working class. We will organize it.


literally noone belives this. You're just a pretentious bougie teen, fuck off

what did he mean by this

Genetics, molecules etc material bits and pieces obviously define the totality of the individual human experience and affect behaviour and so on. What I and others on the left object to is the absurdly far-reaching unargued post-hoc conclusions liberals and rightfriends draw from this fact.
sage because this thread is wankery

So it isn't dialectics at all. Leaving aside the case of Marx, Hegel didn't even have a materialist understanding of dialectics, so how could Hegelian dialectics have even "reduced" like this in the first place?

"Human nature" is currently attached to things like genetics by some people (others may still use the older religious belief and attach "human nature" to the fallen state of man). It isn't that genetics isn't real but that "human nature" being equated to genetics (or, more precisely, your current understanding of genetics) is itself a product of your environment. "Human nature" only refers to genetics because we currently believe it does, not because it is transhistorically and essentially "human nature."

Why are you using science then? It's totally nonsensical not to have "hopes" in science, then use science to support your point about human nature without demolishing your own point. Apparently "philosophical pessimism" just isn't very pessimistic.

Myself was one of the reasons I became a communist?


this TBH

Fuck
I just realized I commented in another
"Im so smart I left "the left" without having a clue as to what the movement stood for"
without sageing

It's not optimism that drives me. It's guilt, and the fact that leftism is quite literally the only thing that comes close to making sense in this world.

Lefty Existentialist here and my answer to you is; why not be optimistic? Sure, to be real, The Revolution probably won't ever actually be a thing but what harm is there in trying to achieve it?

Communism/Anarchism/etc probably won't ever be an reality but it's better than what we've got now. Sure our actions probably don't have any real effect on the world, but if they have the potential to, why not keep doing those actions?

Not OP. I would argue it's the *last* chapter

I just use the system to my advantage while I can and try to do as much good as I can for those around me/closest to me. In the current system I realize there is no tide that can rise all boats, so the whole personal responsibility meme is not actually a meme, it's very real.

If you have access to education, fucking do it, stop being a pussy and do it and try to get the highest paying fucking job you can. Manipulate your boss and find ways to make it look like you work harder than everyone. In other words, hack the system in your own way.

Like, I have no aspirations of being a capitalist but I still make good money, buy nice things, and don't feel bad about it.

There's too much moral faggotry on the left. Enjoy your life and the muh privileges you were born with.

However, the other side of the coin is, don't forget about the class struggle and your role in it. Keep up on left politics. Participate in activism if you feel the need, but don't become some liberal crusader that becomes alienated from the broader population.

Having roots in society and gaining the respect o others and acknowledging the faults in the system gets other people to change their mind too. Small shit like that goes a long way, I really believe this.

If you have the balls, talk to people about the "system" and how, even if its serving you well now, it won't continue delivering for them later, even for their kids or grand kids.

Otherwise, you just become another braindead conservative that thinks they're "anti establishment" and don't realize how much of a pro-government tard you really are.


I'm still anti-capitalist, but I think I'm much more of a "do nothing" style commie due to my class position. Shit just isn't that bad yet, and I think while things aren't Venezuela-tier, you should attain as many skills and as much knowledge as you can. Unfortunately, that means sometimes rubbing elbows with people you completely fucking despise.

The problem is not becoming one of them.

A big part of "hacking" the system I have found is just becoming smarter than the next guy. Find something nobody wants to do that gets you paid fuck loads of money, and become REALLY good at that one thing.

Eventually, you will hold vast amounts of power over people, and your leverage then has the power to effect real change when shit gets bad.

Make alliances with people who share your ideological motivations. Try to get them to do what you're doing, or direct them toward other positions of power to gain control over the various levers of society.

I personally believe it is much easier to foment revolution and have it be successful if communists have *actually* maintained positions of power in the existing society and have the capacity to adapt or communize those positions when the time is right.

This I personally think is much more effective than, say, being some brainless college activist that spends a few years doing "neighborhood organizing" in some shitty neighborhood, and then fizzles out due to cynicism.

In general, I think communists should be committing themselves to full participation in society, not withdrawal. We should be assuming all positions of power possible with the sole purpose of subversion and eventual transformation of those roles.

It's not like anything I'm advocating is new, but I've certainly noticed a trend of laziness and fuck-around-itis on the left that has people just sitting at home like NEET's bitching about society while doing nothing to improve their own situation.

Helping others is much easier when you've first taken the initiative to help yourself, whether its mental help, working out, getting a job/education, etc. Use what resources you have available

Because I like people and the community I am from. I just wish we'd work together instead of purely compete

As for optimism, personally, I'm not very optimistic. My whole M.O. these days is at "damage control".

I think right now, with how strong the right in the US is, we should be forming shadow militias and practicing shooting and other self defense techniques for a SHTF situation.

This kind of ties in with the whole subversion in daily life thing.

We are strictly in a defensive stage, not offensive. Choose your battles wisely I say.

And optimism, I do believe, comes from those that also claim communism is "inevitable" or w/e.

personally I think that's always been bullshit, it's socialism or barbarism, and right now barbarism seems to be the actual trajectory we're headed toward. That's my 2 c. anyways.

What the actual fuck I reddit'd the fuck out of this comment. Sorry everyone i will kms now